Basket Cases

NRL and other Australian Rugby League Discussion
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Geo.
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Re: Basket Cases

Post by Geo. » Fri 03 Aug, 2018 12:02 pm

KICK MANLY OUT..
Wests Tigers don't need a Coach.. The playing group has taken over..


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The Patriot
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Post by The Patriot » Fri 03 Aug, 2018 12:21 pm

Funny how these ARL guys come around to these Super League kind of ideas.

Its not a bad idea, not sure he has the number right and all that but its at least creating discussion.

I always liked the idea of Balmain, Wests and the Bulldogs merging back in the day.
Its an opinion!

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Post by The Patriot » Fri 03 Aug, 2018 12:24 pm

But in saying that we have already merged so they can go jump. Merge the others!
Its an opinion!

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Post by Russell » Fri 03 Aug, 2018 12:25 pm

The Patriot wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 12:21 pm
Funny how these ARL guys come around to these Super League kind of ideas.

Its not a bad idea, not sure he has the number right and all that but its at least creating discussion.

I always liked the idea of Balmain, Wests and the Bulldogs merging back in the day.
I like the idea of Souffs, Rorters and Dogs Merging. Rortorabdogs.

Saints and Tigersharks would be good also.

We have already done our bit.

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Post by The Patriot » Fri 03 Aug, 2018 1:12 pm

Russell wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 12:25 pm
The Patriot wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 12:21 pm
Funny how these ARL guys come around to these Super League kind of ideas.

Its not a bad idea, not sure he has the number right and all that but its at least creating discussion.

I always liked the idea of Balmain, Wests and the Bulldogs merging back in the day.
I like the idea of Souffs, Rorters and Dogs Merging. Rortorabdogs.

Saints and Tigersharks would be good also.

We have already done our bit.

Wollongong Wobbygongs

Sydney City Central Station Bums

North Sydney Hobb Nobs

Blacktown Bogans

There, all sorted lol
Its an opinion!


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Post by 851 » Fri 03 Aug, 2018 1:18 pm

Byron Bay Fan wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 10:19 am
https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/andre ... bf4cb5f69b

Andrew Johns reckons the basket teams should be euthanized to make room for more foreign state teams.
Newcastle have won the last 3 wooden spoons, that right there is basket case material
Go hard or go home

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Post by jirskyr » Fri 03 Aug, 2018 1:36 pm

Problem is Joey suggests to cull Sydney teams from 9 to 4, and add another QLD team in Brisbane or Rocky.

Problem is the popoulation maths doesn't add up.

Sydney' population in 2017 according to ABS was 4.74M. That's 527K people per team. Population of Newcastle and Maitland combined is 481K, so that's less people per team than Sydney currently accommodates.

Population of Rocky is 79K, so just 15% of the theoretical population distribution for each Sydney team.

At a state level, NSW has 7.79M and carries 10 teams (excluding Raiders) = 779K per side. QLD has 5M flat and just 3 teams, so 1.7M theoretical people per side.

So there is a fair argument that expansion in QLD is a good idea, however I can't see it being anywhere apart from Brisbane, because the other towns are too small. Two teams in Brisbane, pop of 2.3M, would supply 1.15M per side, around double that of the current Sydney sides.

But then you ask the question, do we really need to grow the game in NSW and QLD? Do we need to sure up support in our heartlands, or expand the game to new markets?

If you are a "new market" person then Perth and Adelaide are no-brainers - you just have to be willing to spend 30 years creating a niche market before you start to entrench yourself into parts of the local culture, like AFL in Sydney.

Wellington has only 200K people, so whilst it's a potential rugby league location, it would be one of the smallest cities supporting an NRL team - only 20K bigger than Townsville. Obv it has advantages being the capital, but you must question why not a second Auckland team, when they have a population of 1.57M and one single side. Perhaps even a Hamilton team - 157K people but only 2h down the road from the South Auckland League heartland.

You might want to talk nation-wide or Pacific-region viewing public, but these teams need someone to support first. You are hardly going to get much die-hard support from people expected to follow new sides that are 3h drive from their current location.

Then there's a reason why we don't just pull in Tongan and PNG teams into the comp - lack of population in the Pacific (107K in Tonga, 900K in Fiji, 8M in PNG) but more specifically lack of spending money. You are again looking at splashing out in big markets where there is spending money to follow football. That's almost all Australia if you are ticking boxes.

Where did AFL expand into, once they moved beyond the VFL? Perth, Adelaide, Sydney, Brisbane. Second teams eventually in Fremantle and Adelaide where there was already a very strong AFL following since the game's inception. Now Gold Coast and a second Sydney team, but those are still very large markets.

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Fri 03 Aug, 2018 3:20 pm

When a team has to drop out, it WILL be a Sydney team that goes.
That what they have always wanted,
Whether we agree about it or not.
If makes absolutely no sense in getting rid of a team from outside of Sydney as there is just too many Teams here, no one can seriously deny that.
The only way it will be avoided will be if someone amalgamates, or moves.

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Post by clifferdSH » Fri 03 Aug, 2018 3:22 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 1:36 pm
Problem is Joey suggests to cull Sydney teams from 9 to 4, and add another QLD team in Brisbane or Rocky.

Problem is the popoulation maths doesn't add up.

Sydney' population in 2017 according to ABS was 4.74M. That's 527K people per team. Population of Newcastle and Maitland combined is 481K, so that's less people per team than Sydney currently accommodates.

Population of Rocky is 79K, so just 15% of the theoretical population distribution for each Sydney team.

At a state level, NSW has 7.79M and carries 10 teams (excluding Raiders) = 779K per side. QLD has 5M flat and just 3 teams, so 1.7M theoretical people per side.

So there is a fair argument that expansion in QLD is a good idea, however I can't see it being anywhere apart from Brisbane, because the other towns are too small. Two teams in Brisbane, pop of 2.3M, would supply 1.15M per side, around double that of the current Sydney sides.

But then you ask the question, do we really need to grow the game in NSW and QLD? Do we need to sure up support in our heartlands, or expand the game to new markets?

If you are a "new market" person then Perth and Adelaide are no-brainers - you just have to be willing to spend 30 years creating a niche market before you start to entrench yourself into parts of the local culture, like AFL in Sydney.

Wellington has only 200K people, so whilst it's a potential rugby league location, it would be one of the smallest cities supporting an NRL team - only 20K bigger than Townsville. Obv it has advantages being the capital, but you must question why not a second Auckland team, when they have a population of 1.57M and one single side. Perhaps even a Hamilton team - 157K people but only 2h down the road from the South Auckland League heartland.

You might want to talk nation-wide or Pacific-region viewing public, but these teams need someone to support first. You are hardly going to get much die-hard support from people expected to follow new sides that are 3h drive from their current location.

Then there's a reason why we don't just pull in Tongan and PNG teams into the comp - lack of population in the Pacific (107K in Tonga, 900K in Fiji, 8M in PNG) but more specifically lack of spending money. You are again looking at splashing out in big markets where there is spending money to follow football. That's almost all Australia if you are ticking boxes.

Where did AFL expand into, once they moved beyond the VFL? Perth, Adelaide, Sydney, Brisbane. Second teams eventually in Fremantle and Adelaide where there was already a very strong AFL following since the game's inception. Now Gold Coast and a second Sydney team, but those are still very large markets.
I actually think PNG in the nrl would work. Their world cup was a huge success with huge crowds. Could imagine theyd get sell outs every week, get an upgraded stadium, sell heaps of merch and they could easily be a profitable club

Do agree we should work in our own back yard first. I'd go with Perth, nine/foxsports would salivate at the mouth over a 7pm Sunday night (4pm kick off Perth) aswell as huge sponsorship deals. Basically a gold mine waiting to be dug

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Fri 03 Aug, 2018 3:39 pm

clifferdSH wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 11:21 am
jadtiger wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 10:30 am
Byron Bay Fan wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 10:19 am
https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/andre ... bf4cb5f69b

Andrew Johns reckons the basket teams should be euthanized to make room for more foreign state teams.
Too many mind altering medications in Joeys brain.Wonderful way to get rid of all existing Sydney teams and have 4 new merged entities i can really see that working.Destroy the biggest supporter base in the game.
Joey: We need to make it a true national competition, while lowering the number of teams to 12

...

10 seconds later

Joey: We need a 2nd team in New Zealand and a 2nd team in Brisbane

Not the brightest spark is he
Got news for you, he’s right about needing another team in Brisbane !
There are just as many if not more people who detest the Broncos up here, and they would have no problem with getting them to a game every second week,
It’s crazy when there is no game here , when the Broncos are away,
One of the best grounds in the NRLjust sits idle ; while others in Sydney look like a ghost town ,most of the town

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Post by clifferdSH » Fri 03 Aug, 2018 3:45 pm

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 3:39 pm
clifferdSH wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 11:21 am
jadtiger wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 10:30 am
Byron Bay Fan wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 10:19 am
https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/andre ... bf4cb5f69b

Andrew Johns reckons the basket teams should be euthanized to make room for more foreign state teams.
Too many mind altering medications in Joeys brain.Wonderful way to get rid of all existing Sydney teams and have 4 new merged entities i can really see that working.Destroy the biggest supporter base in the game.
Joey: We need to make it a true national competition, while lowering the number of teams to 12

...

10 seconds later

Joey: We need a 2nd team in New Zealand and a 2nd team in Brisbane

Not the brightest spark is he
Got news for you, he’s right about needing another team in Brisbane !
There are just as many if not more people who detest the Broncos up here, and they would have no problem with getting them to a game every second week,
It’s crazy when there is no game here , when the Broncos are away,
One of the best grounds in the NRLjust sits idle ; while others in Sydney look like a ghost town ,most of the town

Yeah I agree mate, just the way he expresses it he comes off as a dumbo lol

Brisbane 2 would probably be less risky than exploring a new market (Perth) considering they are RL mad

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Fri 03 Aug, 2018 3:54 pm

clifferdSH wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 3:22 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 1:36 pm
Problem is Joey suggests to cull Sydney teams from 9 to 4, and add another QLD team in Brisbane or Rocky.

Problem is the popoulation maths doesn't add up.

Sydney' population in 2017 according to ABS was 4.74M. That's 527K people per team. Population of Newcastle and Maitland combined is 481K, so that's less people per team than Sydney currently accommodates.

Population of Rocky is 79K, so just 15% of the theoretical population distribution for each Sydney team.

At a state level, NSW has 7.79M and carries 10 teams (excluding Raiders) = 779K per side. QLD has 5M flat and just 3 teams, so 1.7M theoretical people per side.

So there is a fair argument that expansion in QLD is a good idea, however I can't see it being anywhere apart from Brisbane, because the other towns are too small. Two teams in Brisbane, pop of 2.3M, would supply 1.15M per side, around double that of the current Sydney sides.

But then you ask the question, do we really need to grow the game in NSW and QLD? Do we need to sure up support in our heartlands, or expand the game to new markets?

If you are a "new market" person then Perth and Adelaide are no-brainers - you just have to be willing to spend 30 years creating a niche market before you start to entrench yourself into parts of the local culture, like AFL in Sydney.

Wellington has only 200K people, so whilst it's a potential rugby league location, it would be one of the smallest cities supporting an NRL team - only 20K bigger than Townsville. Obv it has advantages being the capital, but you must question why not a second Auckland team, when they have a population of 1.57M and one single side. Perhaps even a Hamilton team - 157K people but only 2h down the road from the South Auckland League heartland.

You might want to talk nation-wide or Pacific-region viewing public, but these teams need someone to support first. You are hardly going to get much die-hard support from people expected to follow new sides that are 3h drive from their current location.

Then there's a reason why we don't just pull in Tongan and PNG teams into the comp - lack of population in the Pacific (107K in Tonga, 900K in Fiji, 8M in PNG) but more specifically lack of spending money. You are again looking at splashing out in big markets where there is spending money to follow football. That's almost all Australia if you are ticking boxes.

Where did AFL expand into, once they moved beyond the VFL? Perth, Adelaide, Sydney, Brisbane. Second teams eventually in Fremantle and Adelaide where there was already a very strong AFL following since the game's inception. Now Gold Coast and a second Sydney team, but those are still very large markets.
I actually think PNG in the nrl would work. Their world cup was a huge success with huge crowds. Could imagine theyd get sell outs every week, get an upgraded stadium, sell heaps of merch and they could easily be a profitable club

Do agree we should work in our own back yard first. I'd go with Perth, nine/foxsports would salivate at the mouth over a 7pm Sunday night (4pm kick off Perth) aswell as huge sponsorship deals. Basically a gold mine waiting to be dug
Jirskyr,
Do you really think that population is the main concern of the Nrl.
Tv runs the game these days and no matter what the NRL says it still does .and time slots are King,
If they’d care a bout fans or population, they’d run more games like lasts night in a suburban grounds
Corporate opportunities are probably second on the list, as they want more National sponsors, more money coming in

9 clubs in Sydney means fighting with each other for support,
Everyone’s got to chase the pie for their seemingly dimishing share,

Better to increase the share among those who can survive in Sydney,
I don’t like it, but I think it’s inevitable
There’s way too many here

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Post by jirskyr » Fri 03 Aug, 2018 9:11 pm

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 3:54 pm
Jirskyr,
Do you really think that population is the main concern of the Nrl.
Tv runs the game these days and no matter what the NRL says it still does .and time slots are King,
If they’d care a bout fans or population, they’d run more games like lasts night in a suburban grounds
Corporate opportunities are probably second on the list, as they want more National sponsors, more money coming in

9 clubs in Sydney means fighting with each other for support,
Everyone’s got to chase the pie for their seemingly dimishing share,

Better to increase the share among those who can survive in Sydney,
I don’t like it, but I think it’s inevitable
There’s way too many here
I put it to you that populations watch TV. Last time I noticed, they don't pull out the Rockhampton Tv viewertship when measurimg the success of Ninja Warrior or Master Chef.

Ideally yes, less teams in Sydney. But who are you going to cut? Last time they cut Sydney teams around Super League it caused great wounds that still haven't healed fully - e.g. Bears supporters. Illawarra absorbed... some people still hold grudges about Balmain and Magpies despite both teams existing in governance.

You have to take games where the population is, so they take on the new team and either go physically or watch on TV. Relocation to Perth is ideal- but again who puts their hands up?

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Post by Tweed Tiger » Fri 03 Aug, 2018 9:16 pm

I would be happy to see Roosters and sharks merged and sent to Perth

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Post by patwalker » Fri 03 Aug, 2018 10:08 pm

clifferdSH wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 3:45 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 3:39 pm
clifferdSH wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 11:21 am
jadtiger wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 10:30 am


Too many mind altering medications in Joeys brain.Wonderful way to get rid of all existing Sydney teams and have 4 new merged entities i can really see that working.Destroy the biggest supporter base in the game.
Joey: We need to make it a true national competition, while lowering the number of teams to 12

...

10 seconds later

Joey: We need a 2nd team in New Zealand and a 2nd team in Brisbane

Not the brightest spark is he
Got news for you, he’s right about needing another team in Brisbane !
There are just as many if not more people who detest the Broncos up here, and they would have no problem with getting them to a game every second week,
It’s crazy when there is no game here , when the Broncos are away,
One of the best grounds in the NRLjust sits idle ; while others in Sydney look like a ghost town ,most of the town

Yeah I agree mate, just the way he expresses it he comes off as a dumbo lol

Brisbane 2 would probably be less risky than exploring a new market (Perth) considering they are RL mad
I've met Andrew Johns many times and I used to regularly drink with Matty around Cessnock, I can assure you, Andrew IS as dumb as he comes across. And as arrogant as you'd expect. He is not liked at all around the area despite what the Knights media may try to have you believe.

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Post by GNR4LIFE » Fri 03 Aug, 2018 10:20 pm

What was with him predicting Cook being the Australian hooker at the end of the year in such a profound way, like he’s a genius for calling it. Smith has retired from rep footy, who else is ot going to be? Idiot.

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Post by oldprop » Fri 03 Aug, 2018 10:22 pm

Fibros wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 12:00 pm
Byron Bay Fan wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 10:19 am
https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/andre ... bf4cb5f69b

Andrew Johns reckons the basket teams should be euthanized to make room for more foreign state teams.
Joey lost the plot.

Although if we kick the cheats out...
Newcastle could merge with Manly.
Need more props.

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Fri 03 Aug, 2018 10:46 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 9:11 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 3:54 pm
Jirskyr,
Do you really think that population is the main concern of the Nrl.
Tv runs the game these days and no matter what the NRL says it still does .and time slots are King,
If they’d care a bout fans or population, they’d run more games like lasts night in a suburban grounds
Corporate opportunities are probably second on the list, as they want more National sponsors, more money coming in

9 clubs in Sydney means fighting with each other for support,
Everyone’s got to chase the pie for their seemingly dimishing share,

Better to increase the share among those who can survive in Sydney,
I don’t like it, but I think it’s inevitable
There’s way too many here
I put it to you that populations watch TV. Last time I noticed, they don't pull out the Rockhampton Tv viewertship when measurimg the success of Ninja Warrior or Master Chef.

Ideally yes, less teams in Sydney. But who are you going to cut? Last time they cut Sydney teams around Super League it caused great wounds that still haven't healed fully - e.g. Bears supporters. Illawarra absorbed... some people still hold grudges about Balmain and Magpies despite both teams existing in governance.

You have to take games where the population is, so they take on the new team and either go physically or watch on TV. Relocation to Perth is ideal- but again who puts their hands up?
The people who go to the Cowboys games don’t all come from Townsville.’ They come in from all over FNQ.
And I didn’t mention Rocky but the same would apply
As I said that people at games aren’t the NRLs biggest goal.

As for viewership , people don’t have to live within half an hour of the ground to watch it , and games at Townsville are also watched throughout Qld.
I don’t think that there’s much doubt that at least one team from Sydney is on borrowed time.
They won’t drop an outside team (except maybe GOLd Coast)
And I don’t think that will happen.
Someone will eventually have to go.

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