Salary Cap

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Russell
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Re: Salary Cap

Unread post by Russell » Wed 18 Oct, 2017 8:39 am

Lidcombe Magpie wrote:
Tue 17 Oct, 2017 5:48 pm
Russell wrote:
Tue 17 Oct, 2017 8:35 am
Lidcombe Magpie wrote:
Mon 16 Oct, 2017 7:07 pm
colmcd wrote:
Mon 16 Oct, 2017 5:00 pm


So why do the Roosters keep getting so much money?
Cocanne this, Kings cross that, bad player this....

Ok we have had our embarrassments, but were better then the Roosters.
Geez thats a tough call

Craig Field - Manslaughter
John Hoppoata - the proctologist and thug
Tim Simona - Charity thief
Anthony Laffranchi - Charged with rape but charges dropped
Todd Payton - Desecration of a War Memorial
Benny Elias - Dodgy business dealings
Mark O'Neil - sexual harassment in the work place

Probably many more - I know some of these were not committed when playing for the WT's but they are still linked to the club

Every Team has its bad eggs
Guilty anyway - is that right?
I never said he was guilty. Just stating the facts.

Why, do you have problems with the facts?
Well I don't - why put a guy in a list of guilty people who was found NOT guilty.
It means he is no more guilty than you.

Oh! never mind I give up... you just don't get it. Lol


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jirskyr
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Unread post by jirskyr » Wed 18 Oct, 2017 11:44 am

Russell wrote:
Wed 18 Oct, 2017 8:39 am
Lidcombe Magpie wrote:
Tue 17 Oct, 2017 5:48 pm
Russell wrote:
Tue 17 Oct, 2017 8:35 am
Lidcombe Magpie wrote:
Mon 16 Oct, 2017 7:07 pm


Geez thats a tough call

Craig Field - Manslaughter
John Hoppoata - the proctologist and thug
Tim Simona - Charity thief
Anthony Laffranchi - Charged with rape but charges dropped
Todd Payton - Desecration of a War Memorial
Benny Elias - Dodgy business dealings
Mark O'Neil - sexual harassment in the work place

Probably many more - I know some of these were not committed when playing for the WT's but they are still linked to the club

Every Team has its bad eggs
Guilty anyway - is that right?
I never said he was guilty. Just stating the facts.

Why, do you have problems with the facts?
Well I don't - why put a guy in a list of guilty people who was found NOT guilty.
It means he is no more guilty than you.

Oh! never mind I give up... you just don't get it. Lol
I get it Russ.

Not fair to put Laffranchi in a list of dodgy persons when he wasn't convicted of anything. It's like saying Brett Stewart is a crook even though he was exonerated.

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innsaneink
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Unread post by innsaneink » Wed 18 Oct, 2017 11:47 am

mud sticks

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Cultured Bogan
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Unread post by Cultured Bogan » Wed 18 Oct, 2017 12:13 pm

bathursttiger wrote:
Fri 13 Oct, 2017 9:05 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 13 Oct, 2017 7:39 am
Tiger Watto wrote:
Thu 12 Oct, 2017 5:50 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Thu 12 Oct, 2017 12:14 pm


Yes but does it discriminate based on certain attributes? Will a defensive second rower grade worse than an attacking second rower? Will metres gained, tries scored and line breaks be favoured over total tackles, least missed tackles and less errors?
Mate, I dont know the answer to the actualy scenario which would attribute to a grading system, but I know it simply cant be like Super Coach or Fantasy League etc. They are some of the dumbest gradings I have seen.

I feel Experience over Rookie has a exact value, I feel a Centre over a Halfback has another value, a 5 game SOO player over a 20 Game SOO Player etc, but I dont feel it should be based on each players actualy work-rate.

Its only an option/alternative to discuss based on most peoples disgust in the current un-even playing field based on a $ Cap, TPA's and the lack of reward for clubs who develop juniors etc.
I'm not disputing what you're advocating has no merit, just thinking out loud on how it would work.

And with the points system, it would seem that money can still win over when say Easts and Wests are chasing the same player with the same points because they both have the points available and Easts can ring in an "external TPA" and still sign said player over us. It will create a more even spread of talent in a manner of speaking but where battling clubs are competing against richer clubs for the same crop of players the richer clubs will always win out.

All of these scenarios would need to be played out when considering a change to such system. I suspect no matter how the NRL approach it, there will always be loopholes to exploit.
With a points base system it doesn't matter how much you pay a player, it what his value in points that matters.
If Cameron Smith is valved at 52 points the Storm can pay him $10 million dollars or $20k per year.
It's the points that determine his part of the Storms points limit.
So clubs can't assemble a team of stars by having small contracts and topping them up with huge TPA's from rich benefactors that have nothing to do with the club, but are pressured by influential people like Nick or Packer and co.
Anything has got to be better than the current system that lends itself to be wroughted by huge TPA's that the richer clubs or rich supporters can provide.
Sorry BT, I don't think I explained the point well enough.

Example: If Easts and Wests both have the same amount of cap points available and Tedesco is on the market for the same amount, so both clubs are in the running to secure his signature. We know that Easts are significantly stronger financially and can offer more than Wests, so he chooses to go to Easts anyway. Money is still the primary factor in that instance I believe.
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Unread post by supercoach » Wed 18 Oct, 2017 12:41 pm

Under a point system, yes the Chooks could blow our bid out of the water for a player like Tedesco, but they would be limited to how many of these sorts of players they could get under the point quota. So they would have to be very careful how they assembled their roster.

Basically under a point system it becomes the same for every club unlike it is now.


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Cultured Bogan
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Unread post by Cultured Bogan » Wed 18 Oct, 2017 3:53 pm

Yeah it might spread the top talent out more evenly but what's to stop teams loading up and still nabbing the two best players in the game and surrounding them with nobodies and kids AKA the Craig Bellamy method.
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Unread post by supercoach » Wed 18 Oct, 2017 4:16 pm

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Wed 18 Oct, 2017 3:53 pm
Yeah it might spread the top talent out more evenly but what's to stop teams loading up and still nabbing the two best players in the game and surrounding them with nobodies and kids AKA the Craig Bellamy method.
Sure, but you would hope there was enough good players to spread around the 16 clubs. I guess where you might have a problem is with the red hot juniors who would only attract a small point rating, the likes of the Chooks could out bid the other clubs for their services. Anyway any system is better than we have now and It would all come down to how they rate players

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Unread post by tigerap » Wed 18 Oct, 2017 4:52 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Wed 18 Oct, 2017 11:44 am
Russell wrote:
Wed 18 Oct, 2017 8:39 am
Lidcombe Magpie wrote:
Tue 17 Oct, 2017 5:48 pm
Russell wrote:
Tue 17 Oct, 2017 8:35 am


Guilty anyway - is that right?
I never said he was guilty. Just stating the facts.

Why, do you have problems with the facts?
Well I don't - why put a guy in a list of guilty people who was found NOT guilty.
It means he is no more guilty than you.

Oh! never mind I give up... you just don't get it. Lol
I get it Russ.

Not fair to put Laffranchi in a list of dodgy persons when he wasn't convicted of anything. It's like saying Brett Stewart is a crook even though he was exonerated.
Brett Stewart...wouldn't trust him with my daughter or my ATM pin number....the Guy just looks dodgy...and one of those characters that nothing seems to stick on him, but he still smells like a rat.

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Unread post by Russell » Wed 18 Oct, 2017 6:48 pm

tigerap wrote:
Wed 18 Oct, 2017 4:52 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Wed 18 Oct, 2017 11:44 am
Russell wrote:
Wed 18 Oct, 2017 8:39 am
Lidcombe Magpie wrote:
Tue 17 Oct, 2017 5:48 pm

I never said he was guilty. Just stating the facts.

Why, do you have problems with the facts?
Well I don't - why put a guy in a list of guilty people who was found NOT guilty.
It means he is no more guilty than you.

Oh! never mind I give up... you just don't get it. Lol
I get it Russ.

Not fair to put Laffranchi in a list of dodgy persons when he wasn't convicted of anything. It's like saying Brett Stewart is a crook even though he was exonerated.
Brett Stewart...wouldn't trust him with my daughter or my ATM pin number....the Guy just looks dodgy...and one of those characters that nothing seems to stick on him, but he still smells like a rat.
Oh well! nothing to be done but put him before a firing squad.

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jirskyr
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Unread post by jirskyr » Wed 18 Oct, 2017 9:06 pm

tigerap wrote:
Wed 18 Oct, 2017 4:52 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Wed 18 Oct, 2017 11:44 am
Russell wrote:
Wed 18 Oct, 2017 8:39 am
Lidcombe Magpie wrote:
Tue 17 Oct, 2017 5:48 pm

I never said he was guilty. Just stating the facts.

Why, do you have problems with the facts?
Well I don't - why put a guy in a list of guilty people who was found NOT guilty.
It means he is no more guilty than you.

Oh! never mind I give up... you just don't get it. Lol
I get it Russ.

Not fair to put Laffranchi in a list of dodgy persons when he wasn't convicted of anything. It's like saying Brett Stewart is a crook even though he was exonerated.
Brett Stewart...wouldn't trust him with my daughter or my ATM pin number....the Guy just looks dodgy...and one of those characters that nothing seems to stick on him, but he still smells like a rat.
Who exactly would you trust with your PIN?

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Lidcombe Magpie
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Unread post by Lidcombe Magpie » Wed 18 Oct, 2017 10:00 pm

Russell wrote:
Wed 18 Oct, 2017 8:39 am
Lidcombe Magpie wrote:
Tue 17 Oct, 2017 5:48 pm
Russell wrote:
Tue 17 Oct, 2017 8:35 am
Lidcombe Magpie wrote:
Mon 16 Oct, 2017 7:07 pm


Geez thats a tough call

Craig Field - Manslaughter
John Hoppoata - the proctologist and thug
Tim Simona - Charity thief
Anthony Laffranchi - Charged with rape but charges dropped
Todd Payton - Desecration of a War Memorial
Benny Elias - Dodgy business dealings
Mark O'Neil - sexual harassment in the work place

Probably many more - I know some of these were not committed when playing for the WT's but they are still linked to the club

Every Team has its bad eggs
Guilty anyway - is that right?
I never said he was guilty. Just stating the facts.

Why, do you have problems with the facts?
Well I don't - why put a guy in a list of guilty people who was found NOT guilty.
It means he is no more guilty than you.

Oh! never mind I give up... you just don't get it. Lol
Hey Russell

The point I was making was that it put the club in a bad light and as Innsaneink says mud sticks and the club suffers for it. I never said he was guilty, I was purely stating the facts. This is the sort of thing that stops sponsors and TPA's coming into a club.

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Unread post by Onthebus » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 6:59 am

As the Sydney Rorters would say, what salary cap

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Unread post by barra » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 1:58 pm

So for me it boils down to a couple of options;

$$ Salary Cap/TPA's - not overly complicated but hardly a level playing field club Vs club.
Points Cap - Complicated but fairer for club Vs club.

So for me, it's a no-brainer, the points system would be the way to go.

Yes, it's been seen as being subjective but most certainly there would be a fair and reasonable way to quantify the value of any player. There is always means to quantify in my experience.

In the least, if we stay with a salary cap/TPA system, the publishing of contracts would help.

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Unread post by oldprop » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 4:50 pm

The WT website has a story about Justin Pascoe doing a school visit talking about the importance of maths. The salary cap is used as an example of the importance of maths to a football club. So glad Justin was able to explain the salary cap to the little ones.
Need more props.

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Unread post by colmcd » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 4:51 pm

barra wrote:
Fri 20 Oct, 2017 1:58 pm
So for me it boils down to a couple of options;

$$ Salary Cap/TPA's - not overly complicated but hardly a level playing field club Vs club.
Points Cap - Complicated but fairer for club Vs club.

So for me, it's a no-brainer, the points system would be the way to go.

Yes, it's been seen as being subjective but most certainly there would be a fair and reasonable way to quantify the value of any player. There is always means to quantify in my experience.

In the least, if we stay with a salary cap/TPA system, the publishing of contracts would help.
I think we have to be talking simple stuff:
Marquee allowance. I.e. one superstar per team. This should stop Melbourne and co from getting 3 awesome players as I know that one of the other clubs would have offered Cronk or Slater a BFC to sign on. Maybe this could be capped, but capped very highly.
Then a points cap, however let players diminish points the longer they play for a club. I am SICK TO DEATH of clubs having to punt their favourite players. It seems the incentive is for young talent to move rather then stay put and stick it in. It could only be a small reduction, maybe 1% of the players salary is cap free per year they stay but we need less flight school in player movements.

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Unread post by Harvey » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 5:00 pm

oldprop wrote:
Fri 20 Oct, 2017 4:50 pm
The WT website has a story about Justin Pascoe doing a school visit talking about the importance of maths. The salary cap is used as an example of the importance of maths to a football club. So glad Justin was able to explain the salary cap to the little ones.
I saw Nick Politis do the same presentation. I missed something there as could not work out at the end how 30 players on an average of 500k worked out to the 9m they are allowed to spend on the cap. He lost me at the fairies and unicorns that magically deliver money to players that sign for good clubs

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Unread post by colmcd » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 6:23 pm

tigerap wrote:
Wed 18 Oct, 2017 4:52 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Wed 18 Oct, 2017 11:44 am
I get it Russ.

Not fair to put Laffranchi in a list of dodgy persons when he wasn't convicted of anything. It's like saying Brett Stewart is a crook even though he was exonerated.
Brett Stewart...wouldn't trust him with my daughter or my ATM pin number....the Guy just looks dodgy...and one of those characters that nothing seems to stick on him, but he still smells like a rat.
Leave the guy alone. If he has committed an assault, throw him in jail. However if he has had an attention seeking person make up silly story (which appears to be the case and what the court has found), Leave him alone.

Oh the guy looks dodgy, :roll: He was almost at Slaters level and should have been our Origin fullback for the last 8 years. Instead he has had to suffer because someone who was dodgy made up stories.

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Unread post by everett8 » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 7:34 pm

If there really is a salary cap and all clubs abide by it then why can easts afford Teddy and Cronk along with their other superstars.

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