Manly Salary cap issue

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Tacky
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Re: Manly Salary cap issue

Post by Tacky » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 8:49 am

Russell wrote:
Wed 13 Dec, 2017 8:39 am
$400k off next years cap - Could be a 1 million fine - could cost Manly 10 million in advertising???????

All little band aid stuff - the point being, this is not just a scratch.

NRL need to deduct points from next year - how many points? depends on how much rorting.

If it is good enough to deduct from the Dogs, take premierships off the Storm, make them play a season for no points etc. it is good enough to get tough with this great club (except great clubs don't rort).

Should have taken them off Parramatta as well.

Let's get serious - it is hard to detect, but if found out - they should come down like a tonne of bricks.
They did take points off Parramatta. That's how they missed the finals last year.
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Post by Russell » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 9:04 am

Tacky wrote:
Wed 13 Dec, 2017 8:49 am
Russell wrote:
Wed 13 Dec, 2017 8:39 am
$400k off next years cap - Could be a 1 million fine - could cost Manly 10 million in advertising???????

All little band aid stuff - the point being, this is not just a scratch.

NRL need to deduct points from next year - how many points? depends on how much rorting.

If it is good enough to deduct from the Dogs, take premierships off the Storm, make them play a season for no points etc. it is good enough to get tough with this great club (except great clubs don't rort).

Should have taken them off Parramatta as well.

Let's get serious - it is hard to detect, but if found out - they should come down like a tonne of bricks.
They did take points off Parramatta. That's how they missed the finals last year.
Didn't take enough - they did make the finals and in fourth position (they could have won it even though they were cheating). They should have been left out of the eight.

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Post by jadtiger » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 10:14 am

Russell wrote:
Wed 13 Dec, 2017 9:04 am
Tacky wrote:
Wed 13 Dec, 2017 8:49 am
Russell wrote:
Wed 13 Dec, 2017 8:39 am
$400k off next years cap - Could be a 1 million fine - could cost Manly 10 million in advertising???????

All little band aid stuff - the point being, this is not just a scratch.

NRL need to deduct points from next year - how many points? depends on how much rorting.

If it is good enough to deduct from the Dogs, take premierships off the Storm, make them play a season for no points etc. it is good enough to get tough with this great club (except great clubs don't rort).

Should have taken them off Parramatta as well.

Let's get serious - it is hard to detect, but if found out - they should come down like a tonne of bricks.
They did take points off Parramatta. That's how they missed the finals last year.
Didn't take enough - they did make the finals and in fourth position (they could have won it even though they were cheating). They should have been left out of the eight.
Points were taken in 2016 and they didnt make the semis.I do agree that parra were let off very leniently and should have had points taken off them for the same amount of years as they deliberately cheated.No more soft approach, make all cheats wish they had never done it.I reckon after 2 clubs get shredded the practice would cease

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Post by barra » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 10:23 am

Manly Silvertails not so silver since powerbrokers Arko and Co are retired...

Now that the RLPA is calling to overhaul/abolish TPA's we may get somewhere. The fans want some sort of transparency and that would only be good for the game.

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Post by supercoach » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 10:55 am

I think they have to have a NRL type royal commission and come down with real hard punishments for individuals and clubs who are found guilty.

What has to remembered a team like Manly is not only getting a unfair advantage in signing players that they did not have cap space for, but it also stops a club like ours from signing these players so the innocent clubs are also getting disadvantaged. Now the NRL have come out said that they are kosher for 2018 so no points will be deducted, but most of there current squad was signed when they were not compliant so basically other teams did not get a fair shot at signing them...so yes it still has ramifications for the 2018 season. As usual the NRL bark is worse than the bite

Not always but stronger rosters lead to great success and with great success makes attracting fans and commercial partners that much easier.


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Post by Mac » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 11:01 am

While I think it's probably unfair to quantify individual players' TPA's officially, it would be a good idea if every TPA has to be registered with the NRL and the total amount of each clubs' TPA's made public.

That would show what everyone knows - that some clubs have a huge advantage in the players' market and the salary cap is a blunt instrument to level the talent pool.

I'd love Manly to have competition points deducted, if only to increase my chances of collecting on the numerous bets I have (and will continue to have) at $5 for the Tigers to make the 8!

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Post by jirskyr » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 12:36 pm

BalmainBoy wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 10:54 am
It's even been 10 years since a club played in back to back Grand Finals.
I agree with your post generally, but Melbourne just played BTB GFs 2016-2017.

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Post by Pawsandclaws » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 9:29 pm

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport ... 3c5723a93c


Manly Sea Eagles CoO faces NRL expulsion over salary cap infringements
DEAN RITCHIE, The Daily Telegraph
7 minutes ago

MANLY chief operating officer Neil Bare faces the prospect of being kicked out of rugby league over his alleged role in Manly’s salary cap infringements.

The Daily Telegraph can reveal Bare is the second club official facing deregistration after being issued with a show-cause notice by the NRL.

It comes just 24 hours after Sydney Roosters chief executive Joe Kelly, the former Sea Eagles boss, was revealed as the other NRL club official to face deregistration.

Kelly and Bare worked together at Brookvale when the alleged third-party breaches occurred.

The Sydney Roosters will staunchly defend Kelly, who returns from a trip to Bali on Friday.


Manly's salary cap statement
Well-placed sources claim Kelly is a man of integrity who has enormous support in the game.

Bare was overlooked for the Manly CEO job last month when co-owner Scott Penn appointed Lyall Gorman as club boss.

The respected Gorman has walked into a storm at Brookvale but vowed to lead Manly out of the dramas.

“My focus is to put every ounce of energy into making sure this is a great club for many, many years to come. These issues need to be confidently led in how we manage them from a transparency and integrity point of view,” Gorman said.

Manly’s front office, according to former staff members, offered up a “toxic” work environment before Gorman arrived.
 


Today at 7:14 PM

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Post by BalmainBoy » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 10:07 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Wed 13 Dec, 2017 12:36 pm
BalmainBoy wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 10:54 am
It's even been 10 years since a club played in back to back Grand Finals.
I agree with your post generally, but Melbourne just played BTB GFs 2016-2017.
Apologies .. yes they did ...

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Post by Bob » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 10:32 pm

I can’t see them ever punishing the teams or the players.

1) would you really want your cronks, Tedesco’s or whoever quitting and playing for a rival code after you slapped a suspension on them? I’m sure Rugby Union would be frothing at the mouth for that opportunity.

2) would you as NRL CEO really want to lose the tens of thousands of supports to A-League who is growing stronger every season just because you have made their team unable to compete by placing impossible restrictions on them?

The only thing they can do is what they are hinting at doing. If anyone is found to be compliant in salary cap breaches those people are de registered from doing business with the NRL. Agents who are found guilty or aiding players extra payments are also de registered.

The problem is it needs to get harsher and more strict. If any company is found to be paying any deregisted agent or person. Then that company can no longer be permitted to deal with the NRL or club. Because at the moment there are de registered agents who are working for companies who are agents for players. So they are really just one step removed. Deregisted board members are working for companies who provide expertise to clubs, so again they are just 1 step removed from where they are.

There are very few agents in the NRL, and few CEO’s and board members. Nobody really cares about them outside the inner NRL sanctum. Eradicate the crooked ones and make the replacements fearful of bankruptcy and never being able to work again and the rot will stop. If not get rid of them with the next graduating class at uni.

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Post by happy tiger » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 11:17 pm

Bob wrote:
Wed 13 Dec, 2017 10:32 pm
I can’t see them ever punishing the teams or the players.

1) would you really want your cronks, Tedesco’s or whoever quitting and playing for a rival code after you slapped a suspension on them? I’m sure Rugby Union would be frothing at the mouth for that opportunity.

2) would you as NRL CEO really want to lose the tens of thousands of supports to A-League who is growing stronger every season just because you have made their team unable to compete by placing impossible restrictions on them?

The only thing they can do is what they are hinting at doing. If anyone is found to be compliant in salary cap breaches those people are de registered from doing business with the NRL. Agents who are found guilty or aiding players extra payments are also de registered.

The problem is it needs to get harsher and more strict. If any company is found to be paying any deregisted agent or person. Then that company can no longer be permitted to deal with the NRL or club. Because at the moment there are de registered agents who are working for companies who are agents for players. So they are really just one step removed. Deregisted board members are working for companies who provide expertise to clubs, so again they are just 1 step removed from where they are.

There are very few agents in the NRL, and few CEO’s and board members. Nobody really cares about them outside the inner NRL sanctum. Eradicate the crooked ones and make the replacements fearful of bankruptcy and never being able to work again and the rot will stop. If not get rid of them with the next graduating class at uni.
Bob

Mate they can leave if they want and we should tell them there is no coming back either

Funny how quickly superstars step up and fill their shoes

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Post by momo&medo » Thu 14 Dec, 2017 8:48 am

TigerTiger wrote:
Wed 13 Dec, 2017 8:46 am
BalmainBoy wrote:
Wed 13 Dec, 2017 7:40 am
Harvey wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 11:17 pm
BalmainBoy wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 9:03 pm


How exactly would you find out a player has been given cash by a “sponsor” under the table... just explain your investigative methodology.. I’m guessing you wouldn’t have a clue where to look...
The NRL aren't interested, otherwise they could have put something in the new collective bargaining agreement. A starting point would be look at the players lifestyle and estimated expenditure based on what they are paid.

Another fairly obvious point is why would the player move there for 300k when he was offered 500k elsewhere.
And how do they make an assessment on a players lifestyle.... you want them to follow them.. do surveillance.. and who moved where for less ...? And is that necessarily a sign...? I would say some players would value winning over money ... maybe not 300 over 500 but 700 over 800...

Put something in the CBA.. .? So the players union would happily sign off on something that limited players earnings .? Have you been under a rock these last 12 months .?
Transparency is what they need. And why make it so clubs can't organise the payments? They do anyway. Who really cares who organises it, why not change that rule? Change it so clubs can organise them (which they will continue to do) and then declare all payments must be declared to the NRL for cap reasons and tax reasons.

The closest idea I can think of to fair, is requiring a minimum percentage of each player's total pay to be included in the cap. So Teddy earns $600k in the cap, and another $600k from TPAs. The rules could say at least 75% has to be under the cap, so if he's getting paid $1.2m, 75% of that is $900k which needs to be "included under the cap".

Any finding of undisclosed payments (which sure the clubs would try to continue) could be met Very harshly. Deregistering of players and massive hits from the club's future salary cap. If that punishment happens just a couple of times the players would soon do the right thing.

Not perfect, but might be better than what we have now.
All payments to players should be registered by the NRL, included in the cap and published.
Than it’s up to the Australian Tax Office “ Black economy” audit boys to do their thing.

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Post by jirskyr » Thu 14 Dec, 2017 12:00 pm

Pawsandclaws wrote:
Wed 13 Dec, 2017 9:29 pm
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport ... 3c5723a93c

It comes just 24 hours after Sydney Roosters chief executive Joe Kelly, the former Sea Eagles boss, was revealed as the other NRL club official to face deregistration.

Kelly and Bare worked together at Brookvale when the alleged third-party breaches occurred.

The Sydney Roosters will staunchly defend Kelly, who returns from a trip to Bali on Friday.

Well-placed sources claim Kelly is a man of integrity who has enormous support in the game.

Bare was overlooked for the Manly CEO job last month when co-owner Scott Penn appointed Lyall Gorman as club boss.
If anyone was ever unconvinced of the Roosters' sway over the media and top-end of town, look at this article.

Bare and Kelly both fingered in the Manly salary cap issue, though Kelly is apparently a model citizen and Bare... well we aren't making allegations, but let's just say there's a reason he was overlooked for the CEO job at Manly.

But Joe Kelly, our sources say he's A Top Guy. And of course not cooking the books at Roosters like he allegedly did at Manly.

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Post by Geo. » Thu 14 Dec, 2017 2:12 pm

TPA's must have NRL approval now...I don't know what people don't get...the legal one's are fine ..a player has a right to earn off their own brand/image..

The dodgy one's alleged here at Manly and at Parra in 2015 are not..would not have been registered with the NRL..hence the BREACH notices..
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Geo nailed it...

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Post by Pawsandclaws » Thu 14 Dec, 2017 2:20 pm

Geo. wrote:
Thu 14 Dec, 2017 2:12 pm
TPA's must have NRL approval now...I don't know what people don't get...the legal one's are fine ..a player has a right to earn off their own brand/image..

The dodgy one's alleged here at Manly and at Parra in 2015 are not..would not have been registered with the NRL..hence the BREACH notices..
A little confusing that the lady providing some TPAs to Manly (and is registered with the NRL according to her) believes her TPAs are being examined?

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Post by Bob » Thu 14 Dec, 2017 4:08 pm

happy tiger wrote:
Wed 13 Dec, 2017 11:17 pm
Bob wrote:
Wed 13 Dec, 2017 10:32 pm
I can’t see them ever punishing the teams or the players.

1) would you really want your cronks, Tedesco’s or whoever quitting and playing for a rival code after you slapped a suspension on them? I’m sure Rugby Union would be frothing at the mouth for that opportunity.

2) would you as NRL CEO really want to lose the tens of thousands of supports to A-League who is growing stronger every season just because you have made their team unable to compete by placing impossible restrictions on them?

The only thing they can do is what they are hinting at doing. If anyone is found to be compliant in salary cap breaches those people are de registered from doing business with the NRL. Agents who are found guilty or aiding players extra payments are also de registered.

The problem is it needs to get harsher and more strict. If any company is found to be paying any deregisted agent or person. Then that company can no longer be permitted to deal with the NRL or club. Because at the moment there are de registered agents who are working for companies who are agents for players. So they are really just one step removed. Deregisted board members are working for companies who provide expertise to clubs, so again they are just 1 step removed from where they are.

There are very few agents in the NRL, and few CEO’s and board members. Nobody really cares about them outside the inner NRL sanctum. Eradicate the crooked ones and make the replacements fearful of bankruptcy and never being able to work again and the rot will stop. If not get rid of them with the next graduating class at uni.
Bob

Mate they can leave if they want and we should tell them there is no coming back either

Funny how quickly superstars step up and fill their shoes
Easy to say that, even easier if your not the man who is responsible for the revenue and survival of the sport.

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Post by Tiger Come Lately » Thu 14 Dec, 2017 4:16 pm

Bob wrote:
Thu 14 Dec, 2017 4:08 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Wed 13 Dec, 2017 11:17 pm
Bob wrote:
Wed 13 Dec, 2017 10:32 pm
I can’t see them ever punishing the teams or the players.

1) would you really want your cronks, Tedesco’s or whoever quitting and playing for a rival code after you slapped a suspension on them? I’m sure Rugby Union would be frothing at the mouth for that opportunity.

2) would you as NRL CEO really want to lose the tens of thousands of supports to A-League who is growing stronger every season just because you have made their team unable to compete by placing impossible restrictions on them?

The only thing they can do is what they are hinting at doing. If anyone is found to be compliant in salary cap breaches those people are de registered from doing business with the NRL. Agents who are found guilty or aiding players extra payments are also de registered.

The problem is it needs to get harsher and more strict. If any company is found to be paying any deregisted agent or person. Then that company can no longer be permitted to deal with the NRL or club. Because at the moment there are de registered agents who are working for companies who are agents for players. So they are really just one step removed. Deregisted board members are working for companies who provide expertise to clubs, so again they are just 1 step removed from where they are.

There are very few agents in the NRL, and few CEO’s and board members. Nobody really cares about them outside the inner NRL sanctum. Eradicate the crooked ones and make the replacements fearful of bankruptcy and never being able to work again and the rot will stop. If not get rid of them with the next graduating class at uni.
Bob

Mate they can leave if they want and we should tell them there is no coming back either

Funny how quickly superstars step up and fill their shoes
Easy to say that, even easier if your not the man who is responsible for the revenue and survival of the sport.
There has to be consequences.not sure what the answer is but we cant be afraid that another code is going to take a cheater away.

Anyway, no guarantee that changing codes is going to bring the player success. There are some who have done well but as many have have floundered.

Soccer is doing ok but they are no different to any other sport or code. Team does well and the crowds respond. Haven't heard much from GWS supporters this year.

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Post by momo&medo » Thu 14 Dec, 2017 4:25 pm

Geo. wrote:
Thu 14 Dec, 2017 2:12 pm
TPA's must have NRL approval now...I don't know what people don't get...the legal one's are fine ..a player has a right to earn off their own brand/image..

The dodgy one's alleged here at Manly and at Parra in 2015 are not..would not have been registered with the NRL..hence the BREACH notices..
I get it ...... But total player earnings are not published.
If a player is receiving payments which are not being registered by the NRL and/or declared for taxation purposes than its an ATO matter to deal with.

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