Manly Salary cap issue

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sheer64
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Re: Manly Salary cap issue

Post by sheer64 » Tue 12 Dec, 2017 9:42 pm

gallagher wrote:
Mon 11 Dec, 2017 8:37 pm
sheer64 wrote:
Mon 11 Dec, 2017 8:12 pm
Perth Sea Eagles has a nice ring to it!
not when you live here!!!!!
Sorry gallagher, not something I would wish upon my worst enemy. How about the Port Moresby Sea Eagles?
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Post by Fade To Black » Tue 12 Dec, 2017 9:44 pm

Spud Murphy wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 7:24 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 9:57 am
tigerap wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 9:29 am
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 7:51 am
Manly will be right, they'll get docked 12 points this year, pay a fine, sign whomever they want after that and then make the top four next year.
Just like Parra and the Dogs recovered within two years so will Manly...

Most if not all teams are playing Russian Roulette with the TPA's and the CAP...deep down they don't give a rats if they get caught, the chances of success(and the riches that come with it) far outweigh the chances of getting caught....

The sooner the NRL bans TPA the better....but how to enforce it?
Bingo, and you can bet your bottom dollar the one time they'll nail a club to the wall over it, it will be a team like us or Newcastle.
Well I think losing all your points for an entire season and having 2 Premierships taken off you is a pretty good example of a club being nailed to the wall.
They should of been booted out of the NRL. And the 4 parasites that signed dual contracts (Smith, Slater, Inglis and another unnamed player) should of never been allowed to play in the NRL ever again. They got off lightly. Due to the fact that the NRL was/is desperate to have a successful team in AFL heartland.

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Post by gallagher » Tue 12 Dec, 2017 9:44 pm

sheer64 wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 9:42 pm
gallagher wrote:
Mon 11 Dec, 2017 8:37 pm
sheer64 wrote:
Mon 11 Dec, 2017 8:12 pm
Perth Sea Eagles has a nice ring to it!
not when you live here!!!!!
Sorry gallagher, not something I would wish upon my worst enemy. How about the Port Moresby Sea Eagles?
Do you have anything in the northern hemisphere?

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Post by Pawsandclaws » Tue 12 Dec, 2017 9:51 pm

Ex Manly now Rooster's CEO named as one of the two individuals in matter.

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Post by sheer64 » Tue 12 Dec, 2017 9:52 pm

gallagher wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 9:44 pm
sheer64 wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 9:42 pm
gallagher wrote:
Mon 11 Dec, 2017 8:37 pm
sheer64 wrote:
Mon 11 Dec, 2017 8:12 pm
Perth Sea Eagles has a nice ring to it!
not when you live here!!!!!
Sorry gallagher, not something I would wish upon my worst enemy. How about the Port Moresby Sea Eagles?
Do you have anything in the northern hemisphere?
Lapland Sea Eagles?
Arise Sir Waste Anasta, Tool of the highest order!


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Post by Pawsandclaws » Tue 12 Dec, 2017 9:54 pm

Pawsandclaws wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 9:51 pm
Ex Manly now Rooster's CEO named as one of the two individuals in matter.
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport ... 8fb66ea7ef

THE Sydney Roosters have been sensationally dragged into Manly’s salary cap drama after the NRL issued a breach notice to their chief executive Joe Kelly.

The Daily Telegraph understands Roosters boss Kelly received the breach for his alleged role as Sea Eagles CEO between October, 2014, and September, 2016 — a position he stepped down from.

Kelly is one of two club officials facing deregistration by the NRL.

The Daily Telegraph knows the identity of the other official but cannot name him on legal advice.

Kelly, whose mobile phone was switched off on Tuesday, was appointed Roosters CEO in April this year. He is understood to be shattered at the prospect of being kicked out of rugby league.

The Daily Telegraph understands Manly chief operating officer Neil Bare was heavily involved in balancing the club’s salary cap.

The Kelly drama comes as Sea Eagles chief executive Lyall Gorman admitted salary cap allegations against his club were “serious”.

Manly officials and the club’s legal team were poring over myriad allegations and findings on Tuesday after the NRL sent the embattled Sea Eagles a breach over alleged third-party payments dating back five years.

In another day of drama at Brookvale, The Daily Telegraph can reveal:

● THE club’s breaches could be more than the $400,000 first floated;

● PLAYER managers have told of two former Manly stars they insist were owed a total of $450,000 in non-paid third-party payments. Neither agreements were put in writing;

● INDUSTRY experts claim the negative investigation could cost Manly up to $10 million in lost advertising and revenue;

● MAJOR sponsor Lottoland has vowed to stand by Manly through the investigation;

● A CONCERNED Gorman, who started as Manly CEO less than a month ago, called a staff meeting on Tuesday morning to discuss the NRL investigation, telling club employees “that the one thing we can do is control our future, our values and our culture”.

Sports sponsorship and marketing experts believe the potentially damaging cap issues could set Manly back five years.

“Competition for sponsorship dollars has never been tougher,’’ one said. “Signage at grounds is harder than it’s ever been before. Your brand and integrity is everything. It could be a lights-out moment for Manly.

“This could set a club back five years. It’s hard to keep your head above water if you’re a strong club and Manly isn’t financially sound.

“This could cause Manly irreversible damage and cost them up to $10 million in lost sponsorship and revenue.

“These are really challenging times in rugby league. A lot of areas are down financially but the salary cap keeps going up.”

Gorman said his club wouldn’t be rushed into responding to the NRL findings.

Manly’s punishment could include $400,000 being taken off their salary cap next season and a fine of up to $1 million.

“There have been some serious allegations in these preliminary findings,” Gorman said. “These issues need to be addressed.

“It is incumbent on us to take the time to work through the documentation we have been given to form an appropriate response.

“This investigation, as I understand it, took six months and we were only provided with the detailed document (on Monday).

“There is a significant amount to work through. It’s a process that can’t be rushed, a process that needs to be right to protect the best interests of all.

“What we won’t do is run our response through the media. We will respect the protocol of the game.

“Once we have formed a detailed response, we will submit it through the appropriate channels.

“We are trying to do that as quickly as we can but also take the time to ensure our response is an appropriate one in context to what has been provided to us.

“My focus is to put every ounce of energy into making sure this is a great club for many, many years to come.

“These issues need to be confidently led in how we manage them from a transparency and integrity point of view.”

Manly employed three other CEOs over the past five years while the alleged salary cap breaches were unfolding.

While Kelly did not return calls, former Manly CEOs David Perry and Tim Cleary preferred not to comment.

There is no suggestion of any wrongdoing by Perry or Cleary.

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Post by sheer64 » Tue 12 Dec, 2017 9:56 pm

Pawsandclaws wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 9:54 pm
Pawsandclaws wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 9:51 pm
Ex Manly now Rooster's CEO named as one of the two individuals in matter.
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport ... 8fb66ea7ef
The apple never falls too far from the tree!
Arise Sir Waste Anasta, Tool of the highest order!

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Post by gallagher » Tue 12 Dec, 2017 9:59 pm

sheer64 wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 9:52 pm
gallagher wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 9:44 pm
sheer64 wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 9:42 pm
gallagher wrote:
Mon 11 Dec, 2017 8:37 pm


not when you live here!!!!!
Sorry gallagher, not something I would wish upon my worst enemy. How about the Port Moresby Sea Eagles?
Do you have anything in the northern hemisphere?
Lapland Sea Eagles?
That will do.....
:D

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Post by Harvey » Tue 12 Dec, 2017 11:17 pm

BalmainBoy wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 9:03 pm
Harvey wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 4:50 pm
Can I get a job with the NRL in the cap auditing team? They do nothing. Every club caught has been due to a disgruntled insider.
The cap compliance team couldn't find their ass with both hands. Every club caught just shows what a scam the supposed cap is, and how little integrity the NRL has. As someone pointed out there has been no discussion about Maloney waiting on Penrith to organise his illegal 3rd party deal.
The funniest thing is the last couple of sides caught cannot compete even when cheating. Talk about incompetence
How exactly would you find out a player has been given cash by a “sponsor” under the table... just explain your investigative methodology.. I’m guessing you wouldn’t have a clue where to look...
The NRL aren't interested, otherwise they could have put something in the new collective bargaining agreement. A starting point would be look at the players lifestyle and estimated expenditure based on what they are paid.

Another fairly obvious point is why would the player move there for 300k when he was offered 500k elsewhere.

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Post by NT Tiger » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 5:36 am

NT Tiger wrote:
Mon 11 Dec, 2017 7:08 pm
Who said the off season was boring? OK and now for the Roosters!
Pawsandclaws wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 9:51 pm
Ex Manly now Rooster's CEO named as one of the two individuals in matter.
Looks like the fun is just beginning.
"Quality Stupidity"

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Post by NT Tiger » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 5:41 am

"● INDUSTRY experts claim the negative investigation could cost Manly up to $10 million in lost advertising and revenue;"

OK WT management, time to get busy contacting all those disgruntled seagull sponsors. Wouldn't they really rather sponsor a huge brand like Wests Tigers?
"Quality Stupidity"

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Post by supercoach » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 6:37 am

happy tiger wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 12:20 pm
supercoach wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 10:47 am
Do you think Manly or any other club are really concerned with the punishment. It has no bearing on what happens in 2018, they just pay a hefty fine and move on. There is no deterrent except some financial inconvenience.
Well it will SC

The salary cap penalties will be added to their 2018 cap

So in reality they only have a $ 9 million cap , not $9.4 million

But can the NRL make a positive out of this IF they have the balls

So they come like they did with the Parra with a big presso

And then tell the fans and all 16 clubs if they have another salary cap fiasco linked to TPA's they will completely scrap TPA's

So then if the clubs do the wrong thing they then punish themselves ......

Make the clubs accountable for their futures :idea:

Happy yes their cap will be reduced by 400g, but that only represents lest than 5% of the cap. So it is hardly going to write their season off. I just think if they want to stop the rotting they have to come down like a ton of bricks to get the message out to all the clubs.

Of course the best thing they could do is think of a whole new system of valuing players, because at present there are a 100 ways of cheating the system

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Post by BalmainBoy » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 7:40 am

Harvey wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 11:17 pm
BalmainBoy wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 9:03 pm
Harvey wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 4:50 pm
Can I get a job with the NRL in the cap auditing team? They do nothing. Every club caught has been due to a disgruntled insider.
The cap compliance team couldn't find their ass with both hands. Every club caught just shows what a scam the supposed cap is, and how little integrity the NRL has. As someone pointed out there has been no discussion about Maloney waiting on Penrith to organise his illegal 3rd party deal.
The funniest thing is the last couple of sides caught cannot compete even when cheating. Talk about incompetence
How exactly would you find out a player has been given cash by a “sponsor” under the table... just explain your investigative methodology.. I’m guessing you wouldn’t have a clue where to look...
The NRL aren't interested, otherwise they could have put something in the new collective bargaining agreement. A starting point would be look at the players lifestyle and estimated expenditure based on what they are paid.

Another fairly obvious point is why would the player move there for 300k when he was offered 500k elsewhere.
And how do they make an assessment on a players lifestyle.... you want them to follow them.. do surveillance.. and who moved where for less ...? And is that necessarily a sign...? I would say some players would value winning over money ... maybe not 300 over 500 but 700 over 800...

Put something in the CBA.. .? So the players union would happily sign off on something that limited players earnings .? Have you been under a rock these last 12 months .?

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Post by BalmainBoy » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 8:13 am

Also how exactly do you assess that a player is living off 150k and not 100k ... the difference in lifestyle would be minimal... it’s easy to poke at the NRL... but I think it would be impossible to do much without some sort of investigative lead from a tip off ... sounds like they are pretty good once they get that tip... and the Tigers aren’t immune to TPA issues.. you think Tedesco reneged on Canberra to play for less with the Tigers because of a meeting with Robbie Farah..?

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Post by TigerTiger » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 8:34 am

Harvey wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 11:17 pm
BalmainBoy wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 9:03 pm
Harvey wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 4:50 pm
Can I get a job with the NRL in the cap auditing team? They do nothing. Every club caught has been due to a disgruntled insider.
The cap compliance team couldn't find their ass with both hands. Every club caught just shows what a scam the supposed cap is, and how little integrity the NRL has. As someone pointed out there has been no discussion about Maloney waiting on Penrith to organise his illegal 3rd party deal.
The funniest thing is the last couple of sides caught cannot compete even when cheating. Talk about incompetence
How exactly would you find out a player has been given cash by a “sponsor” under the table... just explain your investigative methodology.. I’m guessing you wouldn’t have a clue where to look...
The NRL aren't interested, otherwise they could have put something in the new collective bargaining agreement. A starting point would be look at the players lifestyle and estimated expenditure based on what they are paid.

Another fairly obvious point is why would the player move there for 300k when he was offered 500k elsewhere.
Well mate, the Broncos should be firmly in target sights.
Tariq Sims, offered over $500k a year from Newcastle, turned it down and went to Broncos on $87k a year. It raised eyebrows, we muttered under our breathes, but that was it. And yeah I agree, fairly obvious what happened there.
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Post by Russell » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 8:39 am

$400k off next years cap - Could be a 1 million fine - could cost Manly 10 million in advertising???????

All little band aid stuff - the point being, this is not just a scratch.

NRL need to deduct points from next year - how many points? depends on how much rorting.

If it is good enough to deduct from the Dogs, take premierships off the Storm, make them play a season for no points etc. it is good enough to get tough with this great club (except great clubs don't rort).

Should have taken them off Parramatta as well.

Let's get serious - it is hard to detect, but if found out - they should come down like a tonne of bricks.

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Post by TCL » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 8:40 am

BalmainBoy wrote:
Wed 13 Dec, 2017 8:13 am
Also how exactly do you assess that a player is living off 150k and not 100k ... the difference in lifestyle would be minimal... it’s easy to poke at the NRL... but I think it would be impossible to do much without some sort of investigative lead from a tip off ... sounds like they are pretty good once they get that tip... and the Tigers aren’t immune to TPA issues.. you think Tedesco reneged on Canberra to play for less with the Tigers because of a meeting with Robbie Farah..?
Are you suggesting that Teddy had form when he backflipped on the Raiders and that him signing with the Roosters should have come as no surprise to us?

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Post by TigerTiger » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 8:46 am

BalmainBoy wrote:
Wed 13 Dec, 2017 7:40 am
Harvey wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 11:17 pm
BalmainBoy wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 9:03 pm
Harvey wrote:
Tue 12 Dec, 2017 4:50 pm
Can I get a job with the NRL in the cap auditing team? They do nothing. Every club caught has been due to a disgruntled insider.
The cap compliance team couldn't find their ass with both hands. Every club caught just shows what a scam the supposed cap is, and how little integrity the NRL has. As someone pointed out there has been no discussion about Maloney waiting on Penrith to organise his illegal 3rd party deal.
The funniest thing is the last couple of sides caught cannot compete even when cheating. Talk about incompetence
How exactly would you find out a player has been given cash by a “sponsor” under the table... just explain your investigative methodology.. I’m guessing you wouldn’t have a clue where to look...
The NRL aren't interested, otherwise they could have put something in the new collective bargaining agreement. A starting point would be look at the players lifestyle and estimated expenditure based on what they are paid.

Another fairly obvious point is why would the player move there for 300k when he was offered 500k elsewhere.
And how do they make an assessment on a players lifestyle.... you want them to follow them.. do surveillance.. and who moved where for less ...? And is that necessarily a sign...? I would say some players would value winning over money ... maybe not 300 over 500 but 700 over 800...

Put something in the CBA.. .? So the players union would happily sign off on something that limited players earnings .? Have you been under a rock these last 12 months .?
Transparency is what they need. And why make it so clubs can't organise the payments? They do anyway. Who really cares who organises it, why not change that rule? Change it so clubs can organise them (which they will continue to do) and then declare all payments must be declared to the NRL for cap reasons and tax reasons.

The closest idea I can think of to fair, is requiring a minimum percentage of each player's total pay to be included in the cap. So Teddy earns $600k in the cap, and another $600k from TPAs. The rules could say at least 75% has to be under the cap, so if he's getting paid $1.2m, 75% of that is $900k which needs to be "included under the cap".

Any finding of undisclosed payments (which sure the clubs would try to continue) could be met Very harshly. Deregistering of players and massive hits from the club's future salary cap. If that punishment happens just a couple of times the players would soon do the right thing.

Not perfect, but might be better than what we have now.
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