Kent on Hayne

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Cultured Bogan
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Re: Kent on Hayne

Unread post by Cultured Bogan » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:30 pm

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:39 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:37 am
Nelson wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 9:44 pm
Munk wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:59 pm


You dont see any problem with a player breaking a contract and taking a $700 000 pay reduction to join a club busted for salary cap rorts only a year and a bit ago? That doesnt set any red flags up for you?
He didn't break a contract, they agreed to release him because he wasn't worth anywhere near the cash he was taking up and was and is a toxic figure. His ego is probably what drove him back to Parra. He sniffed the possibility of a premiership and wants to be celebrated as the prodigal son returned to lead them to glory (and if they do win that will probably be the narrative in his head regardless of the reality).

I don't think the NRL could stop him taking a massive pay cut, that would be a restraint of trade. They could however refuse to register the contract as anything less than a nominal market value against Parra's cap. $500K does not seem to be grossly outside his market value at this time. Ferguson has tainted his market value with off field crap. SKD compromised his market value with off field crap. It happens...
I don't believe for a minute he takes a $700K pay cut when his family is a 1 hour plane ride from the Gold Coast.

They get a cut price signing who was worth over double just 12 months ago and were busted for breaching the cap in 2016? Come on...
Funny how a lot here have been saying over and over that Hayne wasn’t worth what The Titans were paying him,
Now that a club pays him what he is worth (at least at the moment) they’re still complaining.
How logical is that?
I get what you're saying, Christ I'd be filthy if we signed him, but it just stinks to high hell. It seems as though the NRL only want to follow their market rating system whenever it suits.
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Unread post by innsaneink » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:43 pm

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:39 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:37 am
Nelson wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 9:44 pm
Munk wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:59 pm


You dont see any problem with a player breaking a contract and taking a $700 000 pay reduction to join a club busted for salary cap rorts only a year and a bit ago? That doesnt set any red flags up for you?
He didn't break a contract, they agreed to release him because he wasn't worth anywhere near the cash he was taking up and was and is a toxic figure. His ego is probably what drove him back to Parra. He sniffed the possibility of a premiership and wants to be celebrated as the prodigal son returned to lead them to glory (and if they do win that will probably be the narrative in his head regardless of the reality).

I don't think the NRL could stop him taking a massive pay cut, that would be a restraint of trade. They could however refuse to register the contract as anything less than a nominal market value against Parra's cap. $500K does not seem to be grossly outside his market value at this time. Ferguson has tainted his market value with off field crap. SKD compromised his market value with off field crap. It happens...
I don't believe for a minute he takes a $700K pay cut when his family is a 1 hour plane ride from the Gold Coast.

They get a cut price signing who was worth over double just 12 months ago and were busted for breaching the cap in 2016? Come on...
Funny how a lot here have been saying over and over that Hayne wasn’t worth what The Titans were paying him,
Now that a club pays him what he is worth (at least at the moment) they’re still complaining.
How logical is that?
Its only funny if its the same people saying that...however in these situations thats not usually the case

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Unread post by Tiger Steve » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:24 pm

Kent made a huge point that I don’t think has been discussed in this thread. NRL own the Titans. NRL are trying to sell the Titans. NRL allowing Hayne to move to Eels takes him off Titans books. Buying the Titans just got a whole lot more attractive because their overheads are $1.2 million less. If something stinks - there it is!

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Unread post by Munk » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:31 pm

happy tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:39 pm
Munk wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 6:30 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 1:31 pm
What is a player worth? Subjective, he's worth what someone would pay for him. Nobody except Parra appears to want a bar of Hayne, so personally if 1/16 clubs want him, that's a fairly large dive in value. Parra can have him, don't think anyone else particularly cares or wanted Hayne at their club.
Thats not correct. He never went to market. If he had there were more teams with space to fit him in. Something dodgy has happened and the NRL are turning a blind eye.
Seriously who would want Hayne
I think youd find that most teams would make room for a twice dally m winning, current origin rep for the bargain price of 500k. Idiots not to.

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Unread post by happy tiger » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:36 pm

Munk wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:31 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:39 pm
Munk wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 6:30 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 1:31 pm
What is a player worth? Subjective, he's worth what someone would pay for him. Nobody except Parra appears to want a bar of Hayne, so personally if 1/16 clubs want him, that's a fairly large dive in value. Parra can have him, don't think anyone else particularly cares or wanted Hayne at their club.
Thats not correct. He never went to market. If he had there were more teams with space to fit him in. Something dodgy has happened and the NRL are turning a blind eye.
Seriously who would want Hayne
I think youd find that most teams would make room for a twice dally m winning, current origin rep for the bargain price of 500k. Idiots not to.
Many are over the moon with Cleary's signing true ??

No coach has outstayed the Hayne Blame Game yet


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Unread post by NT Tiger » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:37 pm

Tiger Steve wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:24 pm
Kent made a huge point that I don’t think has been discussed in this thread. NRL own the Titans. NRL are trying to sell the Titans. NRL allowing Hayne to move to Eels takes him off Titans books. Buying the Titans just got a whole lot more attractive because their overheads are $1.2 million less. If something stinks - there it is!
....and their oversized heads are 1 less.
"Quality Stupidity"

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Unread post by Munk » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:38 pm

Nelson wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:20 pm
Munk wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:22 pm
Nelson wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:58 pm
Fraze23 wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 6:21 pm
I think a lot of what is being spoken about in regards to Hayne is my main issue with the way the Roosters run their cap. The problem isn't with the TPA's themselves, but the fact that the NRL allows clubs to register players on the salary cap for far less than their market value.

Regardless of your opinion of Hayne, he's worth far more than 500K. Worst thing is, the NRL knows this is happening and does absolutely nothing about it.
Why is he worth far more than $500K? He was released (at his own request) at a time of year when most teams had their rosters settled. Numerous clubs just would not have had the cap space to make him an offer of $500K or more and those that could have offered that much or more may not have wanted to, or needed him in a position that would warrant that kind of outlay.

Take Newcastle for example. They've signed up Ponga to play fullback at $600K per year and have Watson as a backup option. Their halves are also covered with Pearce, Watson, Lamb and Cogger. So they did not need Hayne in a spine position as, on 2017 form, he would not necessarily be an upgrade on what they had available and what they'd already heavily invested in. Plus he's a risk because of his reported bad attitude which you don't want around a young squad. They have a need at centre but how much is Hayne worth as a centre? Sure he got picked there for Origin but that was pretty obviously based on reputation. He didn't deliver much there. Personally I could understand why Newcastle would not be interested in paying Hayne $500K plus to play centre.

Who else has money? The Titans? Well that's where he's leaving...The Warriors? They have RTS and Hayne couldn't really go there given the supposed justification for his compassionate release. The Tigers? I suspect we wouldn't have wanted him and he wouldn't have wanted us. Manly have Tom Trbojevic. The Roosters have the most stacked backline in the comp and need forwards, not backs. Panthers and Dogs have no cap space. Sharks already have about 20 fullbacks...

As a centre I think $500K is about what any club would have been prepared to pay him, or at least not too far off the mark. He's just not that good anymore...
You are completely missing the point we are making. He has told the NRL hed rather earn 500k than 1.2mill, with a team renowned for cap breaches recently and they said yep sounds good move forward, nothing questionable there.
What do you want them to do? Say no you can't play because we think it sounds dodgy? As it stood at the moment he was released by the Titans he stood to make $0 in 2018. What you're saying is the NRL should have told him no, you can't be paid $500K in 2018 instead of $0. That would just land the NRL in legal trouble for restraint of trade. They can't punish players, they can only punish clubs and they can only do that by reference to a nominal market value (which is also probably questionable). For the reasons I've already given his market value is a far cry from what it once was.

I'm not missing any point. I think you're grossly overestimating what the NRL can do based on thinking something's dodgy when they have no evidence. Maybe they will investigate.
Haha are you serious? Do you really think he left his $1.2million contract with no where else to go? Seriously? You are trying to imply he went on the market hat in hand and Parra saved him from the dole. Get real mate thats ridiculous - he didnt even test the waters on the open market. He sorted out his dodgy deal with Parramatta well before.

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Unread post by Munk » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:40 pm

happy tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:36 pm
Munk wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:31 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:39 pm
Munk wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 6:30 pm


Thats not correct. He never went to market. If he had there were more teams with space to fit him in. Something dodgy has happened and the NRL are turning a blind eye.
Seriously who would want Hayne
I think youd find that most teams would make room for a twice dally m winning, current origin rep for the bargain price of 500k. Idiots not to.
Many are over the moon with Cleary's signing true ??

No coach has outstayed the Hayne Blame Game yet
If Cleary picked him up that cheap he could have done what he wanted with him.

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Unread post by happy tiger » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:45 pm

Munk wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:40 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:36 pm
Munk wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:31 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:39 pm


Seriously who would want Hayne
I think youd find that most teams would make room for a twice dally m winning, current origin rep for the bargain price of 500k. Idiots not to.
Many are over the moon with Cleary's signing true ??

No coach has outstayed the Hayne Blame Game yet
If Cleary picked him up that cheap he could have done what he wanted with him.
His best is far behind him and the crap that comes with him for that amount of money is not worth it

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Unread post by Munk » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:56 pm

happy tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:45 pm
Munk wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:40 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:36 pm
Munk wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:31 pm


I think youd find that most teams would make room for a twice dally m winning, current origin rep for the bargain price of 500k. Idiots not to.
Many are over the moon with Cleary's signing true ??

No coach has outstayed the Hayne Blame Game yet
If Cleary picked him up that cheap he could have done what he wanted with him.
His best is far behind him and the crap that comes with him for that amount of money is not worth it
I dont doubt that and agree the guy is trouble. I still say if he went on the market there would have been a bidding war, especially at that price. If 500k was the real contract figure, he would be staying put for another year cashing huge cheques and partying with deadbeats. There is no way that a narcissistic person like him would take such a hit, he'd be off playing in the northern hemisphere before that could eventuate.

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Unread post by jadtiger » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 5:23 am

Munk wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:08 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:39 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:37 am
Nelson wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 9:44 pm


He didn't break a contract, they agreed to release him because he wasn't worth anywhere near the cash he was taking up and was and is a toxic figure. His ego is probably what drove him back to Parra. He sniffed the possibility of a premiership and wants to be celebrated as the prodigal son returned to lead them to glory (and if they do win that will probably be the narrative in his head regardless of the reality).

I don't think the NRL could stop him taking a massive pay cut, that would be a restraint of trade. They could however refuse to register the contract as anything less than a nominal market value against Parra's cap. $500K does not seem to be grossly outside his market value at this time. Ferguson has tainted his market value with off field crap. SKD compromised his market value with off field crap. It happens...
I don't believe for a minute he takes a $700K pay cut when his family is a 1 hour plane ride from the Gold Coast.

They get a cut price signing who was worth over double just 12 months ago and were busted for breaching the cap in 2016? Come on...
Funny how a lot here have been saying over and over that Hayne wasn’t worth what The Titans were paying him,
Now that a club pays him what he is worth (at least at the moment) they’re still complaining.
How logical is that?
I never complained about his pay for the Titans. When he re-signed to the NRL he was one of the premier names in Australian sport. Whats happened now is bollocks. If he went on the open market and 500k is all he got offered, so be it. Thats not what happened. He did a backdoor deal to supposedly rob himself of $700k. Im sorry but only the gullible would not see a problem with that.
Completely agree Munk but the problem is the NRL dont want to investigate Parra again.It would look terrible on the part of the nrl if the worms are caught cheating again 2 years after they treated them very lightly for systemic cheating.
The NRL is there to only look after the elite clubs to hell with the others

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Unread post by Fraze23 » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 6:03 am

happy tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:07 pm
Fraze23 wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:57 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:39 pm
Munk wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 6:30 pm


Thats not correct. He never went to market. If he had there were more teams with space to fit him in. Something dodgy has happened and the NRL are turning a blind eye.
Seriously who would want Hayne
I don't think that's the right question. It is how can they add a representative player to their roster for half his current value without having to lose any players? I don't want Hayne, but I wouldn't mind having Gutherson.
The rumours are already out there that they are releasing Bevan French

If they under the cap and salary cap auditors are happy what can anyone do

So maybe it is the right question , Parra were one of the red hot sides the back end of 2017 , probably the only club who really tested Melbourne in the semis , why would they risk further success signing the Hayne Refrain
This is my point Happy. Because he only cost 500K and they don't have to give up any of their stars.

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Unread post by Fade To Black » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 7:07 am

Munk wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:08 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:39 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:37 am
Nelson wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 9:44 pm


He didn't break a contract, they agreed to release him because he wasn't worth anywhere near the cash he was taking up and was and is a toxic figure. His ego is probably what drove him back to Parra. He sniffed the possibility of a premiership and wants to be celebrated as the prodigal son returned to lead them to glory (and if they do win that will probably be the narrative in his head regardless of the reality).

I don't think the NRL could stop him taking a massive pay cut, that would be a restraint of trade. They could however refuse to register the contract as anything less than a nominal market value against Parra's cap. $500K does not seem to be grossly outside his market value at this time. Ferguson has tainted his market value with off field crap. SKD compromised his market value with off field crap. It happens...
I don't believe for a minute he takes a $700K pay cut when his family is a 1 hour plane ride from the Gold Coast.

They get a cut price signing who was worth over double just 12 months ago and were busted for breaching the cap in 2016? Come on...
Funny how a lot here have been saying over and over that Hayne wasn’t worth what The Titans were paying him,
Now that a club pays him what he is worth (at least at the moment) they’re still complaining.
How logical is that?
I never complained about his pay for the Titans. When he re-signed to the NRL he was one of the premier names in Australian sport. Whats happened now is bollocks. If he went on the open market and 500k is all he got offered, so be it. Thats not what happened. He did a backdoor deal to supposedly rob himself of $700k. Im sorry but only the gullible would not see a problem with that.
Browsing this thread it is astonishing but not really surprising how many gullible people are happy to accept the Hayne/Parra rort as above-board. They must be throwbacks to that Heaven's Gate cult in America decades ago where they committed mass suicide and were found with pockets full of change in the the belief that a taxi rocket-ship was gonna ferry them up to live on a comet up in space or something along those lines.
The NRL would surely be up there amongst the most corrupt, inept and inadequate professional sporting organisations in the world as far as operating procedures are concerned. Amateur hour doesn't even begin to describe it.

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Unread post by Fade To Black » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 7:26 am

As much as I abhorred everything about Super League back in 1996 I would be quite happy to see a breakaway league formed nowadays to shove it up the current NRL and its' inequity. Let the Roosters, Broncos, Sharks, Eels and Storm out-rort each other every year in the NRL and the rest of the clubs can legitimately fight it out for a premiership in a new breakaway league. Would be a much more even and interesting competition IMO.

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Unread post by Tiger Come Lately » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 7:35 am

The problem with the NRL is Top down. Greenberg is not good for the NRL.

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Unread post by Cultured Bogan » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 8:09 am

Munk wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:38 pm
Nelson wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:20 pm
Munk wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:22 pm
Nelson wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:58 pm


Why is he worth far more than $500K? He was released (at his own request) at a time of year when most teams had their rosters settled. Numerous clubs just would not have had the cap space to make him an offer of $500K or more and those that could have offered that much or more may not have wanted to, or needed him in a position that would warrant that kind of outlay.

Take Newcastle for example. They've signed up Ponga to play fullback at $600K per year and have Watson as a backup option. Their halves are also covered with Pearce, Watson, Lamb and Cogger. So they did not need Hayne in a spine position as, on 2017 form, he would not necessarily be an upgrade on what they had available and what they'd already heavily invested in. Plus he's a risk because of his reported bad attitude which you don't want around a young squad. They have a need at centre but how much is Hayne worth as a centre? Sure he got picked there for Origin but that was pretty obviously based on reputation. He didn't deliver much there. Personally I could understand why Newcastle would not be interested in paying Hayne $500K plus to play centre.

Who else has money? The Titans? Well that's where he's leaving...The Warriors? They have RTS and Hayne couldn't really go there given the supposed justification for his compassionate release. The Tigers? I suspect we wouldn't have wanted him and he wouldn't have wanted us. Manly have Tom Trbojevic. The Roosters have the most stacked backline in the comp and need forwards, not backs. Panthers and Dogs have no cap space. Sharks already have about 20 fullbacks...

As a centre I think $500K is about what any club would have been prepared to pay him, or at least not too far off the mark. He's just not that good anymore...
You are completely missing the point we are making. He has told the NRL hed rather earn 500k than 1.2mill, with a team renowned for cap breaches recently and they said yep sounds good move forward, nothing questionable there.
What do you want them to do? Say no you can't play because we think it sounds dodgy? As it stood at the moment he was released by the Titans he stood to make $0 in 2018. What you're saying is the NRL should have told him no, you can't be paid $500K in 2018 instead of $0. That would just land the NRL in legal trouble for restraint of trade. They can't punish players, they can only punish clubs and they can only do that by reference to a nominal market value (which is also probably questionable). For the reasons I've already given his market value is a far cry from what it once was.

I'm not missing any point. I think you're grossly overestimating what the NRL can do based on thinking something's dodgy when they have no evidence. Maybe they will investigate.
Haha are you serious? Do you really think he left his $1.2million contract with no where else to go? Seriously? You are trying to imply he went on the market hat in hand and Parra saved him from the dole. Get real mate thats ridiculous - he didnt even test the waters on the open market. He sorted out his dodgy deal with Parramatta well before.
This. 100% this.
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Unread post by tigerap » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 8:39 am

Fade To Black wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 7:26 am
As much as I abhorred everything about Super League back in 1996 I would be quite happy to see a breakaway league formed nowadays to shove it up the current NRL and its' inequity. Let the Roosters, Broncos, Sharks, Eels and Storm out-rort each other every year in the NRL and the rest of the clubs can legitimately fight it out for a premiership in a new breakaway league. Would be a much more even and interesting competition IMO.
That would be interesting....what irritates me is the Coaches of these rorting teams are made out to be super coaches, when the reality is they are super cheats....even Nathan Brown would win a premiership if he had the talents of any of the rorting clubs....I'd like to see how Bellamy, Robinson go with a team of nobodies.

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Unread post by happy tiger » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 8:54 am

Fraze23 wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 6:03 am
happy tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:07 pm
Fraze23 wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:57 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:39 pm


Seriously who would want Hayne
I don't think that's the right question. It is how can they add a representative player to their roster for half his current value without having to lose any players? I don't want Hayne, but I wouldn't mind having Gutherson.
The rumours are already out there that they are releasing Bevan French

If they under the cap and salary cap auditors are happy what can anyone do

So maybe it is the right question , Parra were one of the red hot sides the back end of 2017 , probably the only club who really tested Melbourne in the semis , why would they risk further success signing the Hayne Refrain
This is my point Happy. Because he only cost 500K and they don't have to give up any of their stars.
But Hayne isn't a star and if clubs don't take up French they will have to offer someone up more palatable

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