Kent on Hayne

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happy tiger
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Re: Kent on Hayne

Unread post by happy tiger » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 8:59 am

I'd be surprised if the Titans were spending 1.2 million cap dollars on Hayne

The 1.2 might have been with TPA's

Paying a bloke 200 k (cap wise) more than a Thurston /Taumalolo etc is alleged on who is that inconsistent isn't smart business , especially for a NRL run club ....


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Unread post by innsaneink » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 9:15 am

happy tiger wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 8:54 am
Fraze23 wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 6:03 am
happy tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:07 pm
Fraze23 wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:57 pm


I don't think that's the right question. It is how can they add a representative player to their roster for half his current value without having to lose any players? I don't want Hayne, but I wouldn't mind having Gutherson.
The rumours are already out there that they are releasing Bevan French

If they under the cap and salary cap auditors are happy what can anyone do

So maybe it is the right question , Parra were one of the red hot sides the back end of 2017 , probably the only club who really tested Melbourne in the semis , why would they risk further success signing the Hayne Refrain
This is my point Happy. Because he only cost 500K and they don't have to give up any of their stars.
But Hayne isn't a star and if clubs don't take up French they will have to offer someone up more palatable
Sorry hap...youre wrong again.
He is a marquee signing wether you like him or not...youre letting your personal feelings cloud your judgement again

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Unread post by goldcoast tiger » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 9:19 am

innsaneink wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:43 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:39 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:37 am
Nelson wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 9:44 pm


He didn't break a contract, they agreed to release him because he wasn't worth anywhere near the cash he was taking up and was and is a toxic figure. His ego is probably what drove him back to Parra. He sniffed the possibility of a premiership and wants to be celebrated as the prodigal son returned to lead them to glory (and if they do win that will probably be the narrative in his head regardless of the reality).

I don't think the NRL could stop him taking a massive pay cut, that would be a restraint of trade. They could however refuse to register the contract as anything less than a nominal market value against Parra's cap. $500K does not seem to be grossly outside his market value at this time. Ferguson has tainted his market value with off field crap. SKD compromised his market value with off field crap. It happens...
I don't believe for a minute he takes a $700K pay cut when his family is a 1 hour plane ride from the Gold Coast.

They get a cut price signing who was worth over double just 12 months ago and were busted for breaching the cap in 2016? Come on...
Funny how a lot here have been saying over and over that Hayne wasn’t worth what The Titans were paying him,
Now that a club pays him what he is worth (at least at the moment) they’re still complaining.
How logical is that?
Its only funny if its the same people saying that...however in these situations thats not usually the case
If you were running an nrl club and wanted to buy him
How much would you offer him for a year

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Unread post by diedpretty » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 9:34 am

Nelson wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:20 pm
Munk wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:22 pm
Nelson wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:58 pm
Fraze23 wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 6:21 pm
I think a lot of what is being spoken about in regards to Hayne is my main issue with the way the Roosters run their cap. The problem isn't with the TPA's themselves, but the fact that the NRL allows clubs to register players on the salary cap for far less than their market value.

Regardless of your opinion of Hayne, he's worth far more than 500K. Worst thing is, the NRL knows this is happening and does absolutely nothing about it.
Why is he worth far more than $500K? He was released (at his own request) at a time of year when most teams had their rosters settled. Numerous clubs just would not have had the cap space to make him an offer of $500K or more and those that could have offered that much or more may not have wanted to, or needed him in a position that would warrant that kind of outlay.

Take Newcastle for example. They've signed up Ponga to play fullback at $600K per year and have Watson as a backup option. Their halves are also covered with Pearce, Watson, Lamb and Cogger. So they did not need Hayne in a spine position as, on 2017 form, he would not necessarily be an upgrade on what they had available and what they'd already heavily invested in. Plus he's a risk because of his reported bad attitude which you don't want around a young squad. They have a need at centre but how much is Hayne worth as a centre? Sure he got picked there for Origin but that was pretty obviously based on reputation. He didn't deliver much there. Personally I could understand why Newcastle would not be interested in paying Hayne $500K plus to play centre.

Who else has money? The Titans? Well that's where he's leaving...The Warriors? They have RTS and Hayne couldn't really go there given the supposed justification for his compassionate release. The Tigers? I suspect we wouldn't have wanted him and he wouldn't have wanted us. Manly have Tom Trbojevic. The Roosters have the most stacked backline in the comp and need forwards, not backs. Panthers and Dogs have no cap space. Sharks already have about 20 fullbacks...

As a centre I think $500K is about what any club would have been prepared to pay him, or at least not too far off the mark. He's just not that good anymore...
You are completely missing the point we are making. He has told the NRL hed rather earn 500k than 1.2mill, with a team renowned for cap breaches recently and they said yep sounds good move forward, nothing questionable there.
What do you want them to do? Say no you can't play because we think it sounds dodgy? As it stood at the moment he was released by the Titans he stood to make $0 in 2018. What you're saying is the NRL should have told him no, you can't be paid $500K in 2018 instead of $0. That would just land the NRL in legal trouble for restraint of trade. They can't punish players, they can only punish clubs and they can only do that by reference to a nominal market value (which is also probably questionable). For the reasons I've already given his market value is a far cry from what it once was.

I'm not missing any point. I think you're grossly overestimating what the NRL can do based on thinking something's dodgy when they have no evidence. Maybe they will investigate.
Whats this $0 rubbish - he was going to receive 1.2 mil - the Titans only released him after he asked for it - your suggesting that at the time he asked for a release he had no backup plan and had Parra not offered him a lifeline he would have gone penniless. What others on here are saying is correct - no other club had the opportunity to sign him - Parra are becoming very slimy in their behind the scene dealings with players from other clubs - you can't tell me they didn't have their grubby fingers in the Moses pie as well.

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Unread post by hobbo » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 9:38 am

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 9:19 am
innsaneink wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:43 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:39 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:37 am


I don't believe for a minute he takes a $700K pay cut when his family is a 1 hour plane ride from the Gold Coast.

They get a cut price signing who was worth over double just 12 months ago and were busted for breaching the cap in 2016? Come on...
Funny how a lot here have been saying over and over that Hayne wasn’t worth what The Titans were paying him,
Now that a club pays him what he is worth (at least at the moment) they’re still complaining.
How logical is that?
Its only funny if its the same people saying that...however in these situations thats not usually the case
If you were running an nrl club and wanted to buy him
How much would you offer him for a year
700K
With KPI's ....
EPL 2014/15 Predict 6
Competition ...CHAMPION !
Winner of the 2016 $$$$
Work tipping comp !


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Unread post by happy tiger » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 9:40 am

innsaneink wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 9:15 am
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 8:54 am
Fraze23 wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 6:03 am
happy tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:07 pm


The rumours are already out there that they are releasing Bevan French

If they under the cap and salary cap auditors are happy what can anyone do

So maybe it is the right question , Parra were one of the red hot sides the back end of 2017 , probably the only club who really tested Melbourne in the semis , why would they risk further success signing the Hayne Refrain
This is my point Happy. Because he only cost 500K and they don't have to give up any of their stars.
But Hayne isn't a star and if clubs don't take up French they will have to offer someone up more palatable
Sorry hap...youre wrong again.
He is a marquee signing wether you like him or not...youre letting your personal feelings cloud your judgement again
Can you give me a list of your Marquee players Ink

He doesn't fit my list in any way , shape or form

Marquee for me would be your Thurston's , Cronk's ,Smith's , Taumalolo's ,Boyd's etc

I reckon there aren't even 16 Marquee players in the comp to be honest

I wouldn't even class a Tedesco as a marquee signing , so throwing Hayne in is preposterous to put it mildly

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Unread post by diedpretty » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 9:52 am

happy tiger wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 9:40 am
innsaneink wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 9:15 am
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 8:54 am
Fraze23 wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 6:03 am


This is my point Happy. Because he only cost 500K and they don't have to give up any of their stars.
But Hayne isn't a star and if clubs don't take up French they will have to offer someone up more palatable
Sorry hap...youre wrong again.
He is a marquee signing wether you like him or not...youre letting your personal feelings cloud your judgement again
Can you give me a list of your Marquee players Ink

He doesn't fit my list in any way , shape or form

Marquee for me would be your Thurston's , Cronk's ,Smith's , Taumalolo's ,Boyd's etc

I reckon there aren't even 16 Marquee players in the comp to be honest

I wouldn't even class a Tedesco as a marquee signing , so throwing Hayne in is preposterous to put it mildly
Doesn't matter if he is /was the greatest player of all time or just another kick and giggle park footballer - all reports prior to, during and after his signing and leaving say he was on 1.2 mil and this was the cap money he was taking up - since leaving all reports are saying the Titans have freed up 1.2 mil of cap space. Also no one cares what he is worth - and most of us wouldn't want him here and i dare say a lot of Parra supporters don't want him there either. The whole point of the argument is that the NRL sees no problem with a player accepting 700 k less to sign with a club that they only just finished investigating for salary cap rorts and allowed them to get off easy.

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Unread post by gallagher » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 10:02 am

happy tiger wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 8:59 am
I'd be surprised if the Titans were spending 1.2 million cap dollars on Hayne

The 1.2 might have been with TPA's

Paying a bloke 200 k (cap wise) more than a Thurston /Taumalolo etc is alleged on who is that inconsistent isn't smart business , especially for a NRL run club ....
Since when are clubs smart?
Clubs pay overs for players all the time. Pearce,Hunt, Moses and Farah are just 4 off the top of my head that are on overs for next year.

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Unread post by happy tiger » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 10:18 am

diedpretty wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 9:52 am
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 9:40 am
innsaneink wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 9:15 am
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 8:54 am


But Hayne isn't a star and if clubs don't take up French they will have to offer someone up more palatable
Sorry hap...youre wrong again.
He is a marquee signing wether you like him or not...youre letting your personal feelings cloud your judgement again
Can you give me a list of your Marquee players Ink

He doesn't fit my list in any way , shape or form

Marquee for me would be your Thurston's , Cronk's ,Smith's , Taumalolo's ,Boyd's etc

I reckon there aren't even 16 Marquee players in the comp to be honest

I wouldn't even class a Tedesco as a marquee signing , so throwing Hayne in is preposterous to put it mildly
Doesn't matter if he is /was the greatest player of all time or just another kick and giggle park footballer - all reports prior to, during and after his signing and leaving say he was on 1.2 mil and this was the cap money he was taking up - since leaving all reports are saying the Titans have freed up 1.2 mil of cap space. Also no one cares what he is worth - and most of us wouldn't want him here and i dare say a lot of Parra supporters don't want him there either. The whole point of the argument is that the NRL sees no problem with a player accepting 700 k less to sign with a club that they only just finished investigating for salary cap rorts and allowed them to get off easy.
Again I reckon that 1.2 might be with TPA's

But if a club is stupid enough to pay way overs , let them suffer / perish

Parra would be getting watched like a hawk and if they choose to risk getting caught again twice in 2 seasons , good luck to them

I think we need to accept that many clubs cheat the cap with TPA's in some way , we need to get on board

Can I say that we do it by the books from the 2 dealings I know about , two deals involving a builder and a Campbelltown radio station

With many of the TPA's it would be extremely hard to prove because it comes down to he said / she said , unless it was in writing in some way you'd never prove it and the smart clubs won't get caught out unless a pissed off ex employee dobs them in who has something in writing

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Unread post by 851 » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 10:19 am

Munk wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:08 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:39 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:37 am
Nelson wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 9:44 pm


He didn't break a contract, they agreed to release him because he wasn't worth anywhere near the cash he was taking up and was and is a toxic figure. His ego is probably what drove him back to Parra. He sniffed the possibility of a premiership and wants to be celebrated as the prodigal son returned to lead them to glory (and if they do win that will probably be the narrative in his head regardless of the reality).

I don't think the NRL could stop him taking a massive pay cut, that would be a restraint of trade. They could however refuse to register the contract as anything less than a nominal market value against Parra's cap. $500K does not seem to be grossly outside his market value at this time. Ferguson has tainted his market value with off field crap. SKD compromised his market value with off field crap. It happens...
I don't believe for a minute he takes a $700K pay cut when his family is a 1 hour plane ride from the Gold Coast.

They get a cut price signing who was worth over double just 12 months ago and were busted for breaching the cap in 2016? Come on...
Funny how a lot here have been saying over and over that Hayne wasn’t worth what The Titans were paying him,
Now that a club pays him what he is worth (at least at the moment) they’re still complaining.
How logical is that?
I never complained about his pay for the Titans. When he re-signed to the NRL he was one of the premier names in Australian sport. Whats happened now is bollocks. If he went on the open market and 500k is all he got offered, so be it. Thats not what happened. He did a backdoor deal to supposedly rob himself of $700k. Im sorry but only the gullible would not see a problem with that.
And that is the problem in a nutshell, and the fact the league owns the Titans and are in the process of selling them makes this a whole lot more suspect.
Say it was Antony Milford who was on $1.2 million a year, and we took him off Brisbane for $500k a year, the NRL would be all over us like the measles, the deal would not go through.
Go hard or go home

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Unread post by happy tiger » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 10:24 am

gallagher wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 10:02 am
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 8:59 am
I'd be surprised if the Titans were spending 1.2 million cap dollars on Hayne

The 1.2 might have been with TPA's

Paying a bloke 200 k (cap wise) more than a Thurston /Taumalolo etc is alleged on who is that inconsistent isn't smart business , especially for a NRL run club ....
Since when are clubs smart?
Clubs pay overs for players all the time. Pearce,Hunt, Moses and Farah are just 4 off the top of my head that are on overs for next year.
Unless we produce a superstar internally who wants to stay , we will end up in the same boat as the others who have paid overs

All sports are the same , take the EPL for an example

West Ham can match all the $$$$'s that other clubs above them in the Top 6 do , but those top players don't come

Why ??

Because these blokes know to take their earnings into the mega bucks they need to be playing in the top Euro comps and if you aren't in the Top 6 EPL clubs at the end of a season , it doesn't happen

Dimi Payet was a great example , came for a year , WHU finished 7th and he was gone within 3 months of the new season and basically flat out refused to play for West Ham in the end

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Unread post by jirskyr » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 1:03 pm

happy tiger wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 10:18 am
diedpretty wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 9:52 am
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 9:40 am
innsaneink wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 9:15 am

Sorry hap...youre wrong again.
He is a marquee signing wether you like him or not...youre letting your personal feelings cloud your judgement again
Can you give me a list of your Marquee players Ink

He doesn't fit my list in any way , shape or form

Marquee for me would be your Thurston's , Cronk's ,Smith's , Taumalolo's ,Boyd's etc

I reckon there aren't even 16 Marquee players in the comp to be honest

I wouldn't even class a Tedesco as a marquee signing , so throwing Hayne in is preposterous to put it mildly
Doesn't matter if he is /was the greatest player of all time or just another kick and giggle park footballer - all reports prior to, during and after his signing and leaving say he was on 1.2 mil and this was the cap money he was taking up - since leaving all reports are saying the Titans have freed up 1.2 mil of cap space. Also no one cares what he is worth - and most of us wouldn't want him here and i dare say a lot of Parra supporters don't want him there either. The whole point of the argument is that the NRL sees no problem with a player accepting 700 k less to sign with a club that they only just finished investigating for salary cap rorts and allowed them to get off easy.
Again I reckon that 1.2 might be with TPA's

But if a club is stupid enough to pay way overs , let them suffer / perish

Parra would be getting watched like a hawk and if they choose to risk getting caught again twice in 2 seasons , good luck to them

I think we need to accept that many clubs cheat the cap with TPA's in some way , we need to get on board

Can I say that we do it by the books from the 2 dealings I know about , two deals involving a builder and a Campbelltown radio station

With many of the TPA's it would be extremely hard to prove because it comes down to he said / she said , unless it was in writing in some way you'd never prove it and the smart clubs won't get caught out unless a pissed off ex employee dobs them in who has something in writing
I agree with what you are saying.

Munk and others are making the argument that NRL should not be able to register a Hayne contract of $1.2M with Titans then register it at $500K with the Eels the following season. That something dodgy must be going on for the value change; a possible motive being the NRL ownership of the Titans and involving NRL corruption / incompetence.

But there are several points being generally overlooked IMO:

1) $1.2M was the value set by Titans in 2016 for a player for 2017-2018, not necessarily the market value for Hayne in November 2017. Surely everyone agrees Hayne had an average 2017 and his reputation has suffered.

2) Hayne didn't go to market and therefore yes, we don't know his tested market value. But he is under no obligation to go to the open market. We really have no idea which other clubs would or would not have approached Hayne if given the opportunity. It's quite possible Hayne's reputation is very poor and only the Eels had any confidence in dealing with him again.

3) As happy has said, Titans may conceivably have been dumb enough to pay $1.2M for a player that nobody else wanted at that value. The contract gap between 2017 and 2018 for Hayne may simply be a result of stupidly high "overs" and a club glad to end what was a poor deal. It is also quite conceivable that the second-best offer to Hayne for 2017 was nowhere near $1.2M and therefore the perceived gap is significantly smaller when the top offer is removed (the purpose of a median value).

4) The values being banded about are media only and not necessarily on the mark. We don't know for a fact how much money Hayne is sacrificing.

5) Hayne may be subject to vastly superior TPA capacity as a Sydney resident vs Gold Coast, or even as an Eels identity than a GC one. Put it another way - where does Darren Lockyer work better as a spokesperson or brand representative - QLD or NSW? In fact Hayne may have had pre-existing TPAs for 2018 in QLD that were at risk due to his damaged reputation in 2017.

6) Hayne has a very significant and successful history with Parramatta that may have had a huge bearing on his contract discussions.

7) Hayne is likely very wealthy in his own right and able to take significant paycuts to suit his non-money needs, such as personal satisfaction, stress, geography etc.

8) Hayne is from Sydney and may have significant family and friend networks here.

9) There is significant precedent - Hayne has already turned down strong contract offers when he quit the NRL to play NFL. At the time the media were reporting negotiations of$1M+ per season to stay with Parra, which he declined in favour of US try-outs that ended up netting him $550K per season, or $115K if he was cut from the roster.

So what it really boils down to is one question - why would Jarryd Hayne take a pay cut?

Munk and co are arguing he's not taking a pay cut at all, that the NRL are corrupt and have rubber-stamped something that at face value is excessively cheap and will be backfilled with 3rd-party agreements or other forms of cheating. That Hayne stands to lose hardly any money at all and the Eels are benefiting to have an expensive player on the books for cheap.

Well for starters, why would it be such a surprise that a club is reporting a salary substantially below what people think the player should be worth? What do we think the Broncos and Roosters have been up to these past 10-15 seasons?

Nobody of course has seen the details of the Hayne contract nor any registered TPAs, so those parts are pure speculation. But it's reasonable to assume that #5 above is accurate - that Hayne is capable of earning a lot more non-salaried money playing for the Eels in Sydney. In fact it may even be as simple as contacting his old TPA persons and rolling over old agreements.

So can we think of any reasons why Hayne might give up money, if that's the only thing that has meaning to him, to play for Eels in 2018? How could he possibly walk away from a guaranteed $1.2M?

Well that part is actually very easy to think of lots of reasons:
- per above Hayne may be able to regain or find new TPAs in a new market (Sydney / Parra)
- Hayne may feel his brand and/or future career is best served by a return to Parramatta; this may be a short-term loss for a longer-term gain. It is, after all, only a one-year deal that the Eels have laid out. Possibly Hayne feels he can regain a large salary for 2019 with a strong showing in 2018?
- Hayne may be seriously concerned about the new Titans coach and the general direction in which the club is heading, including concerns over NRL ownership and future sale / change of club management
- Hayne may be strongly influenced by potential to be in a successful side, and he may see Eels as a team with a greater forecast for 2018
- Hayne may simply not like living in QLD or the GC and may wish to return home
- Hayne may have been experiencing other psychological impacts at the Titans that he feels could be improved/removed by going to Parra - general stress, failing to live up to hype / salary, loss of confidence / reputation, training methods, game strategy / player usage etc.
- Hayne may be concerned about his recent form and feels familiar / new surroundings could help him recapture his potential
- Hayne has a track record of doing what he pleases, making unusual career choices and sacrificing salary to achieve his own goals

So re-assessing the arguments:
#1 NRL is corrupt, Eels are cheats and no way Hayne could be taking a substantial pay cut - a single argument
#2 Jarryd Hayne wishes to take a pay cut, or perhaps has sufficient TPAs / sponsorship to take a pay drop, with very many possible reasons for doing so and at least one large personal precedent for making such a decision.

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Unread post by goldcoast tiger » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 1:10 pm

happy tiger wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 9:40 am
innsaneink wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 9:15 am
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 8:54 am
Fraze23 wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 6:03 am


This is my point Happy. Because he only cost 500K and they don't have to give up any of their stars.
But Hayne isn't a star and if clubs don't take up French they will have to offer someone up more palatable
Sorry hap...youre wrong again.
He is a marquee signing wether you like him or not...youre letting your personal feelings cloud your judgement again
Can you give me a list of your Marquee players Ink

He doesn't fit my list in any way , shape or form

Marquee for me would be your Thurston's , Cronk's ,Smith's , Taumalolo's ,Boyd's etc

I reckon there aren't even 16 Marquee players in the comp to be honest

I wouldn't even class a Tedesco as a marquee signing , so throwing Hayne in is preposterous to put it mildly
Who’s ours ??

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Unread post by goldcoast tiger » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 1:12 pm

Dad, if Parra don’t want French, can we buy him please........please!!

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Unread post by happy tiger » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 1:17 pm

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 1:10 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 9:40 am
innsaneink wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 9:15 am
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 8:54 am


But Hayne isn't a star and if clubs don't take up French they will have to offer someone up more palatable
Sorry hap...youre wrong again.
He is a marquee signing wether you like him or not...youre letting your personal feelings cloud your judgement again
Can you give me a list of your Marquee players Ink

He doesn't fit my list in any way , shape or form

Marquee for me would be your Thurston's , Cronk's ,Smith's , Taumalolo's ,Boyd's etc

I reckon there aren't even 16 Marquee players in the comp to be honest

I wouldn't even class a Tedesco as a marquee signing , so throwing Hayne in is preposterous to put it mildly
Who’s ours ??
Gareth Ellis / Robbie Farah aren't we still paying them :D

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Unread post by Fraze23 » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 3:02 pm

happy tiger wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 9:40 am
innsaneink wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 9:15 am
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 8:54 am
Fraze23 wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 6:03 am


This is my point Happy. Because he only cost 500K and they don't have to give up any of their stars.
But Hayne isn't a star and if clubs don't take up French they will have to offer someone up more palatable
Sorry hap...youre wrong again.
He is a marquee signing wether you like him or not...youre letting your personal feelings cloud your judgement again
Can you give me a list of your Marquee players Ink

He doesn't fit my list in any way , shape or form

Marquee for me would be your Thurston's , Cronk's ,Smith's , Taumalolo's ,Boyd's etc

I reckon there aren't even 16 Marquee players in the comp to be honest

I wouldn't even class a Tedesco as a marquee signing , so throwing Hayne in is preposterous to put it mildly
You've lost me there mate. If Tedesco isn't classed as a marquee signing then that is preposterous. Parramatta are gaining a current representative footballer who is a quality player, the guy has won 2 Dally M awards. If he turns up mentally he could be anything for Parra and could be the difference for them winning the comp. There is no way a player of Hayne's calibre is worth 500k. The NRL have allowed something really dodgy to go on here and the precedent it sets is never going to benefit a club like ours.

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Unread post by diedpretty » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 3:20 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 1:03 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 10:18 am
diedpretty wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 9:52 am
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 9:40 am


Can you give me a list of your Marquee players Ink

He doesn't fit my list in any way , shape or form

Marquee for me would be your Thurston's , Cronk's ,Smith's , Taumalolo's ,Boyd's etc

I reckon there aren't even 16 Marquee players in the comp to be honest

I wouldn't even class a Tedesco as a marquee signing , so throwing Hayne in is preposterous to put it mildly
Doesn't matter if he is /was the greatest player of all time or just another kick and giggle park footballer - all reports prior to, during and after his signing and leaving say he was on 1.2 mil and this was the cap money he was taking up - since leaving all reports are saying the Titans have freed up 1.2 mil of cap space. Also no one cares what he is worth - and most of us wouldn't want him here and i dare say a lot of Parra supporters don't want him there either. The whole point of the argument is that the NRL sees no problem with a player accepting 700 k less to sign with a club that they only just finished investigating for salary cap rorts and allowed them to get off easy.
Again I reckon that 1.2 might be with TPA's

But if a club is stupid enough to pay way overs , let them suffer / perish

Parra would be getting watched like a hawk and if they choose to risk getting caught again twice in 2 seasons , good luck to them

I think we need to accept that many clubs cheat the cap with TPA's in some way , we need to get on board

Can I say that we do it by the books from the 2 dealings I know about , two deals involving a builder and a Campbelltown radio station

With many of the TPA's it would be extremely hard to prove because it comes down to he said / she said , unless it was in writing in some way you'd never prove it and the smart clubs won't get caught out unless a pissed off ex employee dobs them in who has something in writing
I agree with what you are saying.

Munk and others are making the argument that NRL should not be able to register a Hayne contract of $1.2M with Titans then register it at $500K with the Eels the following season. That something dodgy must be going on for the value change; a possible motive being the NRL ownership of the Titans and involving NRL corruption / incompetence.

But there are several points being generally overlooked IMO:

1) $1.2M was the value set by Titans in 2016 for a player for 2017-2018, not necessarily the market value for Hayne in November 2017. Surely everyone agrees Hayne had an average 2017 and his reputation has suffered.

2) Hayne didn't go to market and therefore yes, we don't know his tested market value. But he is under no obligation to go to the open market. We really have no idea which other clubs would or would not have approached Hayne if given the opportunity. It's quite possible Hayne's reputation is very poor and only the Eels had any confidence in dealing with him again.

3) As happy has said, Titans may conceivably have been dumb enough to pay $1.2M for a player that nobody else wanted at that value. The contract gap between 2017 and 2018 for Hayne may simply be a result of stupidly high "overs" and a club glad to end what was a poor deal. It is also quite conceivable that the second-best offer to Hayne for 2017 was nowhere near $1.2M and therefore the perceived gap is significantly smaller when the top offer is removed (the purpose of a median value).

4) The values being banded about are media only and not necessarily on the mark. We don't know for a fact how much money Hayne is sacrificing.

5) Hayne may be subject to vastly superior TPA capacity as a Sydney resident vs Gold Coast, or even as an Eels identity than a GC one. Put it another way - where does Darren Lockyer work better as a spokesperson or brand representative - QLD or NSW? In fact Hayne may have had pre-existing TPAs for 2018 in QLD that were at risk due to his damaged reputation in 2017.

6) Hayne has a very significant and successful history with Parramatta that may have had a huge bearing on his contract discussions.

7) Hayne is likely very wealthy in his own right and able to take significant paycuts to suit his non-money needs, such as personal satisfaction, stress, geography etc.

8) Hayne is from Sydney and may have significant family and friend networks here.

9) There is significant precedent - Hayne has already turned down strong contract offers when he quit the NRL to play NFL. At the time the media were reporting negotiations of$1M+ per season to stay with Parra, which he declined in favour of US try-outs that ended up netting him $550K per season, or $115K if he was cut from the roster.

So what it really boils down to is one question - why would Jarryd Hayne take a pay cut?

Munk and co are arguing he's not taking a pay cut at all, that the NRL are corrupt and have rubber-stamped something that at face value is excessively cheap and will be backfilled with 3rd-party agreements or other forms of cheating. That Hayne stands to lose hardly any money at all and the Eels are benefiting to have an expensive player on the books for cheap.

Well for starters, why would it be such a surprise that a club is reporting a salary substantially below what people think the player should be worth? What do we think the Broncos and Roosters have been up to these past 10-15 seasons?

Nobody of course has seen the details of the Hayne contract nor any registered TPAs, so those parts are pure speculation. But it's reasonable to assume that #5 above is accurate - that Hayne is capable of earning a lot more non-salaried money playing for the Eels in Sydney. In fact it may even be as simple as contacting his old TPA persons and rolling over old agreements.

So can we think of any reasons why Hayne might give up money, if that's the only thing that has meaning to him, to play for Eels in 2018? How could he possibly walk away from a guaranteed $1.2M?

Well that part is actually very easy to think of lots of reasons:
- per above Hayne may be able to regain or find new TPAs in a new market (Sydney / Parra)
- Hayne may feel his brand and/or future career is best served by a return to Parramatta; this may be a short-term loss for a longer-term gain. It is, after all, only a one-year deal that the Eels have laid out. Possibly Hayne feels he can regain a large salary for 2019 with a strong showing in 2018?
- Hayne may be seriously concerned about the new Titans coach and the general direction in which the club is heading, including concerns over NRL ownership and future sale / change of club management
- Hayne may be strongly influenced by potential to be in a successful side, and he may see Eels as a team with a greater forecast for 2018
- Hayne may simply not like living in QLD or the GC and may wish to return home
- Hayne may have been experiencing other psychological impacts at the Titans that he feels could be improved/removed by going to Parra - general stress, failing to live up to hype / salary, loss of confidence / reputation, training methods, game strategy / player usage etc.
- Hayne may be concerned about his recent form and feels familiar / new surroundings could help him recapture his potential
- Hayne has a track record of doing what he pleases, making unusual career choices and sacrificing salary to achieve his own goals

So re-assessing the arguments:
#1 NRL is corrupt, Eels are cheats and no way Hayne could be taking a substantial pay cut - a single argument
#2 Jarryd Hayne wishes to take a pay cut, or perhaps has sufficient TPAs / sponsorship to take a pay drop, with very many possible reasons for doing so and at least one large personal precedent for making such a decision.


Everything you have written is as you have previously said " subjective".

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Unread post by Geo. » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 3:29 pm

and loooooooooooooong..
Ivan's Laws

1. You are either on the Bus or you are off..
2. The Star of the Team is the Team
3. Be the player your teammates want to play with..
Tiger Watto wrote:
Fri 03 Nov, 2017 8:07 am
Geo nailed it...

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