Referees and commentators

NRL and other Australian Rugby League Discussion
User avatar
Harvey
Member
Member
Posts: 2888
Joined: Mon 22 Jun, 2015 10:01 pm
Location: Leumeah

Re: Referees and commentators

Post by Harvey » Sat 31 Mar, 2018 10:17 am

Rugby League was slowly killing itself. It was becoming boring and predictable.

Speeding the ruck up, keeping a decent 10 and increased fatigue will lead to better football and skillful players being rewarded.

As long as the refs are applying the rules consistently, to both teams equally regardless of the time in the game or field position, then I do not care what some of the talking heads have to say.

You cannot continue to have 30 penalties a game, but the refs should not back down. If the players and coaches aren't learning, up the ante and start binning players. 10 on 11 will open the game up.

I think this is short term pain for the long term benefit of the game. How short term it is depends on the players & coaches.


voice of reason
Member
Member
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat 09 Aug, 2014 10:35 pm

Post by voice of reason » Sat 31 Mar, 2018 10:39 am

The hope is that eventually the game improves but watching the crackdown is painful.
Ironically - in an effort to produce a free flowing, open game - we are seeing a stop/start penalty fest. We can only hope the players and coaches can comply sooner rather than later because at this stage it's like watching Union where they can find a technical penalty at every ruck.
As much as I enjoy watching us win, I'm finding the high penalty counts incredibly annoying.
Suffering supporter since 1967

Telltails
Member
Member
Posts: 2087
Joined: Fri 18 Apr, 2014 3:24 pm

Post by Telltails » Sat 31 Mar, 2018 10:41 am

Its like watching Rugby Union. Thats what you will get a game won on penalties, no free flowing play and people hating the refs more than they do now.
When the refs are the focus of the game we have a problem.

User avatar
diedpretty
Member
Member
Posts: 2235
Joined: Thu 16 Jul, 2009 7:31 am
Location: port macquarie

Post by diedpretty » Sat 31 Mar, 2018 10:45 am

Telltails wrote:
Fri 30 Mar, 2018 10:41 pm
Just wondering why this year suddenly the way Melbourne play the game is no longer acceptable!
Because the NRL don't want them to win the premiership this year - would upset their level playing field myth.

formerguest
Forum Suppoter
Forum Suppoter
Posts: 3517
Joined: Fri 07 Jun, 2013 7:33 pm

Post by formerguest » Sat 31 Mar, 2018 10:49 am

krayola wrote:
Sat 31 Mar, 2018 10:06 am
I’m glad I’m not alone.

I don’t watch heaps of Fox. Do the commentators on there complain a lot, like they do on 9?

Btw, not sure what people are expecting from a Sharks v Storm game? It’s never going to be pretty to watch w those two teams.
The ultimate paragraph says it all. Those two teams push the boundaries on all levels that results in really ugly football and that is why I no longer watch them and others unless they are playing against us.

I am all for refs ruling on a "feel for the game" basis, but that only works when they have basic control of a game, which as a whole has been lacking and beyond a joke for waaaay too long. The vast majority of people teach their children the importance of abiding by rules, whatever their sport or endeavour and for good reason, so why in hell are those looked to as role models excused.

If anyone breaks rules to gain an advantage, competitive or otherwise, there is only one way to stop the practice or balance things, a penalty must be applied. Just as with the decisions our magistrates and judges, there is scope for discretion for referees, but they can not allow the rules to be continually flouted.


User avatar
diedpretty
Member
Member
Posts: 2235
Joined: Thu 16 Jul, 2009 7:31 am
Location: port macquarie

Post by diedpretty » Sat 31 Mar, 2018 10:54 am

innsaneink wrote:
Sat 31 Mar, 2018 10:08 am
Swordy wrote:
Sat 31 Mar, 2018 9:21 am
The ref issue either positive or negative can stop today, right now, if the players played within the rules and the coaches stopped coaching them to break the rules.

It really is that simple.
Do you honestly think 272 players will, for 80 minutes play 100% to the rules every single week?

Come on.... :crazy
I don't expect them too however i would be happy if the ruck ( from tackle to play the ball ) is cleaned up and the 10 m is policed properly - those 2 areas are the biggest blight on the game. I can live with a borderline fwd pass considering the speed the game is played at but not a blatant 1m forward.

User avatar
Masterton
Member
Member
Posts: 2270
Joined: Tue 14 Jul, 2009 6:57 pm

Post by Masterton » Sat 31 Mar, 2018 11:00 am

Funny how Johns etc say the penalties are killing the game. I can live with the penalties, especially for deliberate perpetrators like the Storm. It's the continual whinging in commentary that annoys me. It's like they want viewers to turn off.

Cam Smith getting binned will be a season highlight.
"I was on the bus before you painted it yellow."

Russell
Member
Member
Posts: 3724
Joined: Sat 10 Dec, 2011 6:46 pm

Post by Russell » Sat 31 Mar, 2018 11:08 am

TIGER wrote:
Sat 31 Mar, 2018 10:15 am
I don't care what happens but all I know is at the moment I'm not enjoying watching rugby league!!!!

The refs heads are spinning at the moment, last night's Jackson incident is a perfect example of the ref being caught in two minds, he called Jackson out to lay down the law which held up the attacking teams momentum but then wanted to cover it by quickly restarting play which of course left poor Jackson in no man's land.
Two weeks in a row now we've had the ref admitting and apologising for making a mistake that cost both teams 2 points.
This is what happens when you try to be perfect, this is what happens when you want to pull up every minor infringement but at the same time let the game flow.

We have to decide what we as fans want football to be.
Do we want it free flowing and open and a battle of the fittest and most skillful or do we want it slow and stop start full of penalties for every little minor infringement?

If we want it free flowing we have to be ok with refs overlooking the little things, as long as it goes both ways.

If I lived in Sydney there's no way I'd be spending my $ to go and watch the type of football that we're seeing, this isn't a matter of "we'll the players will get it eventually"
Ask yourself do you want the brand of football that they're trying to create?
Even if the players adapt and the refs don't have to blow the pea out of it anymore, do we want what that game looks like?
I know I don't. I'm pretty sure if most thought about it they won't either.

If the crowds start dropping off, you'll soon see these penalties reduce, we the fans have the power to change this, don't consume the product if it tastes bad and right now it's putrid!!!!


Here's an idea, let's just play games with no ref and then have the officials decide who won by sitting in a studio watching the replay in slow motion and deduct points for every try scored that there was an infringement prior to.
Whoever ends up with the most points wins.
Is that how we want it to be?
You are right in reverse - the game was putrid (with cheating, inconsistency, indiscretions, backchatting etc.).

They are now cleaning i t up - we have to put up with overcoming years of abuse by players and coaches to get it back to a fairer game.

Ok. so we have to put up with penalties for awhile - probably there should be more (at least a dozen forward passes by the Storm could have been picked up last night - what is wrong with the Touch judges - they also need to held accountable).

I am all for cleaning up the game - those that don't like it will just have to suffer. This is the same consequence that other supporters that wanted to see a fair game have had to put up with over the years.

The one stipulation I make is that the referees need to be penalised as well. Klein last week, Chechin last night - they should have been relegated.

No one is above the game.

Telltails
Member
Member
Posts: 2087
Joined: Fri 18 Apr, 2014 3:24 pm

Post by Telltails » Sat 31 Mar, 2018 11:15 am

diedpretty wrote:
Sat 31 Mar, 2018 10:45 am
Telltails wrote:
Fri 30 Mar, 2018 10:41 pm
Just wondering why this year suddenly the way Melbourne play the game is no longer acceptable!
Because the NRL don't want them to win the premiership this year - would upset their level playing field myth.
A friend of mine has the theory.

FreddyK
Forum Suppoter
Forum Suppoter
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue 02 May, 2017 1:54 pm

Post by FreddyK » Sat 31 Mar, 2018 11:25 am

Harvey wrote:
Sat 31 Mar, 2018 10:17 am
Rugby League was slowly killing itself. It was becoming boring and predictable.

Speeding the ruck up, keeping a decent 10 and increased fatigue will lead to better football and skillful players being rewarded.

As long as the refs are applying the rules consistently, to both teams equally regardless of the time in the game or field position, then I do not care what some of the talking heads have to say.

You cannot continue to have 30 penalties a game, but the refs should not back down. If the players and coaches aren't learning, up the ante and start binning players. 10 on 11 will open the game up.

I think this is short term pain for the long term benefit of the game. How short term it is depends on the players & coaches.
X2

User avatar
hugh1954
Member
Member
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri 17 May, 2013 10:10 pm
Location: Maitland

Post by hugh1954 » Sat 31 Mar, 2018 11:36 am

Players and coaches have been running the game for some time now, its not going to be an overnight fix in getting back respect and adherence to rules we will just have to go through the pain just like its not easy to get a child back under control that has had its own way for to long. I just don't like that the more penalties you call the % of mistakes in giving those penalties rises accordingly
Last edited by hugh1954 on Sat 31 Mar, 2018 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

Telltails
Member
Member
Posts: 2087
Joined: Fri 18 Apr, 2014 3:24 pm

Post by Telltails » Sat 31 Mar, 2018 11:37 am

For those who applaud this expect more refereeing decisions to have an impact on the outcome of games. The more they blow the whistle the more mistakes will be made.
Adding pressure on an already difficult job will not resolve anything.
Very easy to be supportive of a crackdown in games where your team is not effected.
Can guarantee the same rules will not apply at SOO time.

supercoach
Member
Member
Posts: 6593
Joined: Mon 13 Jul, 2009 2:38 pm

Post by supercoach » Sat 31 Mar, 2018 11:56 am

Two shocking games of NRL and from where I sit, it was more about lack of skill rather than the refs blowing the pea out of the whistle.. The NRL is about completing sets, getting to your kick and getting return sets, both teams last night could hardly complete a set. As for all the penalties, maybe any penalty conceded while defending in your own quarter, the infringing players has to stand behind the deadball line for the following set

krayola
Member
Member
Posts: 664
Joined: Sat 26 Jun, 2010 10:12 am

Post by krayola » Sat 31 Mar, 2018 12:00 pm

TIGER wrote:
Sat 31 Mar, 2018 10:15 am
I don't care what happens but all I know is at the moment I'm not enjoying watching rugby league!!!!

The refs heads are spinning at the moment, last night's Jackson incident is a perfect example of the ref being caught in two minds, he called Jackson out to lay down the law which held up the attacking teams momentum but then wanted to cover it by quickly restarting play which of course left poor Jackson in no man's land.
Two weeks in a row now we've had the ref admitting and apologising for making a mistake that cost both teams 2 points.
This is what happens when you try to be perfect, this is what happens when you want to pull up every minor infringement but at the same time let the game flow.

We have to decide what we as fans want football to be.
Do we want it free flowing and open and a battle of the fittest and most skillful or do we want it slow and stop start full of penalties for every little minor infringement?

If we want it free flowing we have to be ok with refs overlooking the little things, as long as it goes both ways.

If I lived in Sydney there's no way I'd be spending my $ to go and watch the type of football that we're seeing, this isn't a matter of "we'll the players will get it eventually"
Ask yourself do you want the brand of football that they're trying to create?
Even if the players adapt and the refs don't have to blow the pea out of it anymore, do we want what that game looks like?
I know I don't. I'm pretty sure if most thought about it they won't either.

If the crowds start dropping off, you'll soon see these penalties reduce, we the fans have the power to change this, don't consume the product if it tastes bad and right now it's putrid!!!!


Here's an idea, let's just play games with no ref and then have the officials decide who won by sitting in a studio watching the replay in slow motion and deduct points for every try scored that there was an infringement prior to.
Whoever ends up with the most points wins.
Is that how we want it to be?
Fair points...most fans want the game to be faster and more skilful. But do the players and coaches want the game to be that way? They don't want it to be fair either. I don't see them contributing to a great spectacle by wrestling the flow out of the game or holding players down once they're tackled. They create a less pleasant spectacle by rorting the cap, taking peptides and creating an unlevel playing field. And if their halves were to play to the flow of the game, as people want the refs to do, they'd be dropped or criticised as soon as they lost. They have structures and KPIs too but I don't see any hacks in the media attacking them atm.

Gould and co are right: penalties are not what people want to see. But I don't think people want to see Cronulla snuff the life out of the game for 60 minutes either.

TBH I refereed a number of sports for a few years. You have to referee to the style of teams on field. Storm and Sharks don't want to play fast, they want to play rough so a bit more should be let go. However if they play a smaller, faster team the refereeing needs to adjust accordingly and reward the opposition to an extent.
One of my sources is Pascoe

User avatar
cktiger
Member
Member
Posts: 3236
Joined: Fri 12 Nov, 2010 10:37 am

Post by cktiger » Sat 31 Mar, 2018 12:03 pm

Anyone who has ever been to a game will tell you three things you hear the crowd calling to the ref EVERY week... 'Get 'em onside', 'Get off him' and 'Forward pass!'
As a kid you are told you have to get back onside after every tackle , get off someone as soon as the ref tells you and pass the ball backwards... not brain surgery.
I'm fine if they target these areas but my pet hate is the countless (deliberate) forward passes still being let go from dummy half which give the attack an advantage.

krayola
Member
Member
Posts: 664
Joined: Sat 26 Jun, 2010 10:12 am

Post by krayola » Sat 31 Mar, 2018 12:05 pm

Telltails wrote:
Sat 31 Mar, 2018 11:37 am
For those who applaud this expect more refereeing decisions to have an impact on the outcome of games. The more they blow the whistle the more mistakes will be made.
Adding pressure on an already difficult job will not resolve anything.
Very easy to be supportive of a crackdown in games where your team is not effected.
Can guarantee the same rules will not apply at SOO time.
The referees rarely impact the decision of the game. What happened last week is a rarity. The players have by far the biggest say on the outcome and generally only get upset when threatened with losing.

The ref did not cause Kieran Foran to miss his penalty from in front yesterday nor did he help Isaako or Brooks kick their clutch field goals and he didn't contribute to Nofa dropping the ball four times or Thompson missing two chances in the in-goal.
One of my sources is Pascoe

User avatar
Swordy
Member
Member
Posts: 1726
Joined: Fri 02 Jul, 2010 9:34 pm

Post by Swordy » Sat 31 Mar, 2018 12:16 pm

innsaneink wrote:
Sat 31 Mar, 2018 10:08 am
Swordy wrote:
Sat 31 Mar, 2018 9:21 am
The ref issue either positive or negative can stop today, right now, if the players played within the rules and the coaches stopped coaching them to break the rules.

It really is that simple.
Do you honestly think 272 players will, for 80 minutes play 100% to the rules every single week?

Come on.... :crazy
Of course not Ink, but simply, there is probably more to be gained by any coach or player in using that same time spent learning and practicing to flaunt the rules, and using that time to come up with more attacking and defensive patterns that you can control through execution, not just hoping you get a penalty or not based on the mood of the referee.
Sunshine Coast resident.
Tigers fan since birth in 1969.
Fond memories of Leichhardt Oval every home game as a kid with my Dad!

southerntiger
Member
Member
Posts: 4331
Joined: Sun 12 Jul, 2009 6:24 pm
Location: Sydney

Post by southerntiger » Sat 31 Mar, 2018 12:18 pm

innsaneink wrote:
Sat 31 Mar, 2018 10:03 am
Players have been offside, punching/stripping balls out, trying to get away with whatever they can since 1908.
People that think this will clean up the game aren't being realistic.... Professional top level sportsmen will Always push the letter... Even competitive kids in park footy will... The player that plays by the rules sees another that gets away with something the ref misses and thinks " I need to compete with my rival, bugger the ref, I'll take a chance".
I don't think players will change... if the refs don't change we're in for a long dull frustrating season... Tho I do agree with GCT it appears to be helping teams like us.
The refs will relent... They always do...but they'll come out and say they've done what they set out to do... They'll treat the fans like mugs.
These butt ugly games were seeing now cannot continue
Mate no one thinks this will stop people breaking the rules. It will continue to happen. But the game got really boring over the last few years due to Bellamy Ball. Teams went into games with the deliberate strategy of committing penalties close to their line.

Hopefully this crackdown will redress the balance and we will be back to where we were before the name Craig Bellamy was uttered in the coaching echelons.

Post Reply