Round 11 SPOILERS

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jirskyr
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Re: Round 11 SPOILERS

Post by jirskyr » Mon 21 May, 2018 12:10 pm

Red88 Tiger wrote:
Sun 20 May, 2018 8:19 am
sheer64 wrote:
Sun 20 May, 2018 2:35 am
hobbo wrote:
Sat 19 May, 2018 11:55 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Sat 19 May, 2018 11:23 pm
What do you guys reckon about the Napa hit?

I reckon he did lead with the head and it was reckless. He leans and rises far too high, only ever made contact with the opponent's head; if it was his arm, he'd have been in trouble too. That whole set was full of Roosters guys trying to launch themselves in the tackle.

Considering a guy can be binned now for backing through the ruck or being offside a 3rd time, I can't see how so many people are complaining that Napa got binned for a dangerous action.

I'm sure he didn't intend it, but that's not the point, and how were the Broncos having to field one less bloke because Napa's head is like a scud missile?

They've shown no balls in then not suspending him afterwards, takes away all the credit of the referees trying to penalise safer play.
Refs got it wrong ...
Nothing in it .
Except the fact he lead with his head until his head came into contact with the face of the victim.
Left field but does anyone think it's a modified shoulder charge
Yes I do think it's a modified s/c. I still can't understand people defending Napa, and the front-on shot isn't as good a picture, but the wide-angle side-on shot shows just how bad an attempt it is.

Shoulder charges were outlawed because it became apparent that they were dangerous, after 100 years of being in the game. Shoulder charges often work just fine, but they also often come off badly and result in unnecessary concussions, which we have learned are dangerous over time to footballers.

Here Napa barely gets below chest height at any time, then rises into the tackle. By the time he's reached Sims he's above shoulder height and still rising, arms out to the side... he literally doesn't have his arms even to parallel by the time he's headbutted Sims in the face.
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Some commentators saying head collisions are in inevitable part of the game and you can't remove your head from the front of the tackle action. Yeah sure, but how many head clashes in the NRL are between top of skull with jaw? Most head clashes are face-on-face or temples, and often from friendly fire. The only way to clash your skull with someone's face (whilst they are standing) is to attack the headspace with your head, and that should be outlawed.

Other commentators say Sims stepped into it - if he had stayed his course, Napa would still have either headbutted him or collected him with his left shoulder, because he was just far too high and not attempting to get his shoulders in place.

Think about it yourself, if you are setting for a tackle like Napa, left shoulder, and someone steps off his right foot (towards your right shoulder), the normal reaction is to turn your head left and try and take the tackle right shoulder. Because if you don't, you are putting your head into the path of the runner and often that ends badly.

In other words, you need to take the tackle on the shoulder that he runs at, not simply the shoulder you start off lining up with. Most players will do this and end up with their head behind the runner, safely away.

Napa instead sets left, gets stepped to his right and just follows through at head-height, so his head connects. If he keeps doing this, he's going to either break his own neck or continue head-butting guys in the face, because you can't tackle people around the head, doesn't matter if it's your arms or head. Napa essentially often leads with his head because he sets his shoulder and commits to the tackle far too early far too often - sometimes this means a beautiful shot, because he's in place with full weight into the action, and sometimes he destroys someone's head.

In fact I think Napa is potentially more dangerous yet some how treated more leniently because it was his head. If it was a shoulder or a loose arm nobody would be complaining about the punishment, but some people think he should be let off because he caught the guy with his head.


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Post by innsaneink » Mon 21 May, 2018 12:20 pm

Clap clap clap

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Post by 4jtigers » Mon 21 May, 2018 12:23 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Mon 21 May, 2018 12:10 pm
Red88 Tiger wrote:
Sun 20 May, 2018 8:19 am
sheer64 wrote:
Sun 20 May, 2018 2:35 am
hobbo wrote:
Sat 19 May, 2018 11:55 pm


Refs got it wrong ...
Nothing in it .
Except the fact he lead with his head until his head came into contact with the face of the victim.
Left field but does anyone think it's a modified shoulder charge
Yes I do think it's a modified s/c. I still can't understand people defending Napa, and the front-on shot isn't as good a picture, but the wide-angle side-on shot shows just how bad an attempt it is.

Shoulder charges were outlawed because it became apparent that they were dangerous, after 100 years of being in the game. Shoulder charges often work just fine, but they also often come off badly and result in unnecessary concussions, which we have learned are dangerous over time to footballers.

Here Napa barely gets below chest height at any time, then rises into the tackle. By the time he's reached Sims he's above shoulder height and still rising, arms out to the side... he literally doesn't have his arms even to parallel by the time he's headbutted Sims in the face.
Capture1.JPG
Capture2.JPG

Some commentators saying head collisions are in inevitable part of the game and you can't remove your head from the front of the tackle action. Yeah sure, but how many head clashes in the NRL are between top of skull with jaw? Most head clashes are face-on-face or temples, and often from friendly fire. The only way to clash your skull with someone's face (whilst they are standing) is to attack the headspace with your head, and that should be outlawed.

Other commentators say Sims stepped into it - if he had stayed his course, Napa would still have either headbutted him or collected him with his left shoulder, because he was just far too high and not attempting to get his shoulders in place.

Think about it yourself, if you are setting for a tackle like Napa, left shoulder, and someone steps off his right foot (towards your right shoulder), the normal reaction is to turn your head left and try and take the tackle right shoulder. Because if you don't, you are putting your head into the path of the runner and often that ends badly.

In other words, you need to take the tackle on the shoulder that he runs at, not simply the shoulder you start off lining up with. Most players will do this and end up with their head behind the runner, safely away.

Napa instead sets left, gets stepped to his right and just follows through at head-height, so his head connects. If he keeps doing this, he's going to either break his own neck or continue head-butting guys in the face, because you can't tackle people around the head, doesn't matter if it's your arms or head. Napa essentially often leads with his head because he sets his shoulder and commits to the tackle far too early far too often - sometimes this means a beautiful shot, because he's in place with full weight into the action, and sometimes he destroys someone's head.

In fact I think Napa is potentially more dangerous yet some how treated more leniently because it was his head. If it was a shoulder or a loose arm nobody would be complaining about the punishment, but some people think he should be let off because he caught the guy with his head.
I've got no idea how he got away with it. His action seems to be of headbutting similar to the master NMyles himself during origin games. It's just plain stupidity to let him go - he didn't mean it then it is careless. Don't careless tackles get suspension too?
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Post by happy tiger » Mon 21 May, 2018 12:55 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Mon 21 May, 2018 12:10 pm
Red88 Tiger wrote:
Sun 20 May, 2018 8:19 am
sheer64 wrote:
Sun 20 May, 2018 2:35 am
hobbo wrote:
Sat 19 May, 2018 11:55 pm


Refs got it wrong ...
Nothing in it .
Except the fact he lead with his head until his head came into contact with the face of the victim.
Left field but does anyone think it's a modified shoulder charge
Yes I do think it's a modified s/c. I still can't understand people defending Napa, and the front-on shot isn't as good a picture, but the wide-angle side-on shot shows just how bad an attempt it is.

Shoulder charges were outlawed because it became apparent that they were dangerous, after 100 years of being in the game. Shoulder charges often work just fine, but they also often come off badly and result in unnecessary concussions, which we have learned are dangerous over time to footballers.

Here Napa barely gets below chest height at any time, then rises into the tackle. By the time he's reached Sims he's above shoulder height and still rising, arms out to the side... he literally doesn't have his arms even to parallel by the time he's headbutted Sims in the face.
Capture1.JPG
Capture2.JPG

Some commentators saying head collisions are in inevitable part of the game and you can't remove your head from the front of the tackle action. Yeah sure, but how many head clashes in the NRL are between top of skull with jaw? Most head clashes are face-on-face or temples, and often from friendly fire. The only way to clash your skull with someone's face (whilst they are standing) is to attack the headspace with your head, and that should be outlawed.

Other commentators say Sims stepped into it - if he had stayed his course, Napa would still have either headbutted him or collected him with his left shoulder, because he was just far too high and not attempting to get his shoulders in place.

Think about it yourself, if you are setting for a tackle like Napa, left shoulder, and someone steps off his right foot (towards your right shoulder), the normal reaction is to turn your head left and try and take the tackle right shoulder. Because if you don't, you are putting your head into the path of the runner and often that ends badly.

In other words, you need to take the tackle on the shoulder that he runs at, not simply the shoulder you start off lining up with. Most players will do this and end up with their head behind the runner, safely away.

Napa instead sets left, gets stepped to his right and just follows through at head-height, so his head connects. If he keeps doing this, he's going to either break his own neck or continue head-butting guys in the face, because you can't tackle people around the head, doesn't matter if it's your arms or head. Napa essentially often leads with his head because he sets his shoulder and commits to the tackle far too early far too often - sometimes this means a beautiful shot, because he's in place with full weight into the action, and sometimes he destroys someone's head.

In fact I think Napa is potentially more dangerous yet some how treated more leniently because it was his head. If it was a shoulder or a loose arm nobody would be complaining about the punishment, but some people think he should be let off because he caught the guy with his head.
Tackles go wrong unfortunately , get your timing out by half a second ......

Is any questioning the tackle made by the Yates on ET that knocked him out ??

Not exactly the same I know , but the body comes in contact before the arms make contact and that should be the issue

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Post by jirskyr » Mon 21 May, 2018 1:49 pm

happy tiger wrote:
Mon 21 May, 2018 12:55 pm
Tackles go wrong unfortunately , get your timing out by half a second ......

Is any questioning the tackle made by the Yates on ET that knocked him out ??

Not exactly the same I know , but the body comes in contact before the arms make contact and that should be the issue
Pretty sure Yates copped ET with a shoulder hit on the chest? Rattled him good but legal tackle.

And then as you say, body contact first. Body on body is fine, so long as head contact is left out.

Napa attacked the head-space of the runner. Don't care if it's arms or head or feet or elbows, it's not on. Absolutely he got his timing wrong and that's the same reason why they outlawed the shoulder charge, because people kept getting their timing wrong.

Sam Burgess got two weeks for this hit on Sezer - no raised arm, upright stance, Sezer has ducked into the tackle, Burgess makes contact around the shoulder and neck. He didn't launch himself, but he accidentally attacked the head with his arm.
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Capture.JPG (81.9 KiB) Viewed 242 times
Napa gets off, why? Because he can't control his head? Absolutely he can.


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Post by happy tiger » Mon 21 May, 2018 2:59 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Mon 21 May, 2018 1:49 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Mon 21 May, 2018 12:55 pm
Tackles go wrong unfortunately , get your timing out by half a second ......

Is any questioning the tackle made by the Yates on ET that knocked him out ??

Not exactly the same I know , but the body comes in contact before the arms make contact and that should be the issue
Pretty sure Yates copped ET with a shoulder hit on the chest? Rattled him good but legal tackle.

And then as you say, body contact first. Body on body is fine, so long as head contact is left out.

Napa attacked the head-space of the runner. Don't care if it's arms or head or feet or elbows, it's not on. Absolutely he got his timing wrong and that's the same reason why they outlawed the shoulder charge, because people kept getting their timing wrong.

Sam Burgess got two weeks for this hit on Sezer - no raised arm, upright stance, Sezer has ducked into the tackle, Burgess makes contact around the shoulder and neck. He didn't launch himself, but he accidentally attacked the head with his arm.

Capture.JPG

Napa gets off, why? Because he can't control his head? Absolutely he can.
It ended up being a HIA , unless we were playing the game :o

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Post by 4jtigers » Mon 21 May, 2018 3:07 pm

So it is safe to say that if someone copies how Napa did that tackle, he will get off scott free. That's very re-assuring that you will still play on and not get suspended. (don't talk to me that he didn't intend it to happen - he launched himself in a way that he was about to headbutt someone).

Agree with you jirskyr, he can control his head... I am still surprised that he got away with it.
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Post by Russell » Mon 21 May, 2018 3:19 pm

At the very least it was a shoulder charge in my books and his hands were wrapping around anything.

If you can't suspend him one way then suspend him on the other.

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Post by happy tiger » Mon 21 May, 2018 3:25 pm

4jtigers wrote:
Mon 21 May, 2018 3:07 pm
So it is safe to say that if someone copies how Napa did that tackle, he will get off scott free. That's very re-assuring that you will still play on and not get suspended. (don't talk to me that he didn't intend it to happen - he launched himself in a way that he was about to headbutt someone).

Agree with you jirskyr, he can control his head... I am still surprised that he got away with it.
I agree , any tackle that a player doesn't make contact with their hands /arm /shoulder first is an issue

What I'm saying tackles go wrong so quickly , as I raised with someone recently on the Forum , take a reaction tackle when you get caught on the wrong foot and they step inside you and you coathanger them high ......

Must admit I haven't seen the Napa tackle at full speed yet though

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Post by TCL » Mon 21 May, 2018 3:45 pm

it was an intentional head butt. He makes no effort to hit with arms or shoulder. He launched him self at Sims.

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Post by voice of reason » Mon 21 May, 2018 4:08 pm

Substitute elbow for head and he gets six weeks.
The photographic evidence is damning - how anyone can say he didn't lead with his head - when it was first point of contact - is simply fanciful.
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Post by jirskyr » Mon 21 May, 2018 4:11 pm

happy tiger wrote:
Mon 21 May, 2018 2:59 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Mon 21 May, 2018 1:49 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Mon 21 May, 2018 12:55 pm
Tackles go wrong unfortunately , get your timing out by half a second ......

Is any questioning the tackle made by the Yates on ET that knocked him out ??

Not exactly the same I know , but the body comes in contact before the arms make contact and that should be the issue
Pretty sure Yates copped ET with a shoulder hit on the chest? Rattled him good but legal tackle.

And then as you say, body contact first. Body on body is fine, so long as head contact is left out.

Napa attacked the head-space of the runner. Don't care if it's arms or head or feet or elbows, it's not on. Absolutely he got his timing wrong and that's the same reason why they outlawed the shoulder charge, because people kept getting their timing wrong.

Sam Burgess got two weeks for this hit on Sezer - no raised arm, upright stance, Sezer has ducked into the tackle, Burgess makes contact around the shoulder and neck. He didn't launch himself, but he accidentally attacked the head with his arm.

Capture.JPG

Napa gets off, why? Because he can't control his head? Absolutely he can.
It ended up being a HIA , unless we were playing the game :o
You don't need to be struck on the head to be concussed, right? So technically a HIA can be incurred for any evidence of brain trauma from any collision.

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Post by happy tiger » Mon 21 May, 2018 4:23 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Mon 21 May, 2018 4:11 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Mon 21 May, 2018 2:59 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Mon 21 May, 2018 1:49 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Mon 21 May, 2018 12:55 pm
Tackles go wrong unfortunately , get your timing out by half a second ......

Is any questioning the tackle made by the Yates on ET that knocked him out ??

Not exactly the same I know , but the body comes in contact before the arms make contact and that should be the issue
Pretty sure Yates copped ET with a shoulder hit on the chest? Rattled him good but legal tackle.

And then as you say, body contact first. Body on body is fine, so long as head contact is left out.

Napa attacked the head-space of the runner. Don't care if it's arms or head or feet or elbows, it's not on. Absolutely he got his timing wrong and that's the same reason why they outlawed the shoulder charge, because people kept getting their timing wrong.

Sam Burgess got two weeks for this hit on Sezer - no raised arm, upright stance, Sezer has ducked into the tackle, Burgess makes contact around the shoulder and neck. He didn't launch himself, but he accidentally attacked the head with his arm.

Capture.JPG

Napa gets off, why? Because he can't control his head? Absolutely he can.
It ended up being a HIA , unless we were playing the game :o
You don't need to be struck on the head to be concussed, right? So technically a HIA can be incurred for any evidence of brain trauma from any collision.
Very true , I believe if you show signs of a whiplash effect injury now , they add it to the HIA criteria

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Post by innsaneink » Mon 21 May, 2018 4:25 pm

Wayne Bennett has launched a fiery tirade at the NRL over the match review committee's failure to charge Dylan Napa, accusing the game of having an anti-Brisbane bias.

The Broncos coach unloaded on the game's governing body after prop Korbin Sims underwent surgery on a broken jaw following a head-to-head collision with Napa during Friday's win over the Sydney Roosters.

Napa was sin-binned for leading with his head in a tackle, a decision that was criticised by Roosters coach Trent Robinson.

The MRC on Saturday declined to charge Napa, leaving him free to turn out for Queensland for State of Origin I.

However a fuming Bennett lodged a complaint with the NRL claiming they had failed in their duty of care.

"Why hasn't the game made Napa accountable?" Bennett told News Corp. "I know there will be a s***fight coming my way but I'm not backing away from it.

"I am not going to watch my players get broken jaws and remain silent.

"When you go before the judiciary, they will ask the player, 'What was your duty of care?'

"Where is Napa's duty of care?"



Bennett hit back saying Napa was reckless in the way he went into the tackle with his arms out-stretched and with his head out front.

He accused the MRC of inconsistency, pointing to Sam Thaiday's suspension for wrenching the hand of Melbourne's Jesse Bromwich last year.

"There is a bias against the Broncos," he said. "We won a game we weren't supposed to win so that would have pissed off the Roosters even more.

"Last year, Sam pulled Jesse Bromwich's finger. He was found guilty for contrary conduct.

"Are you telling me a finger pull is worse than Napa breaking Sims' jaw with a reckless tackle?

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/bennet ... 4zghm.html
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I nearly drove off the road this arvo coming home when I heard this on the news ..other than that... Wayne has a point

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Post by Geo. » Mon 21 May, 2018 4:39 pm

I reckon the NRL should give them 17 Friday night games and a Penalty Broncos as compensation...Ok Unca..
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Sorry FT , you know I'm not the brightest match in the pile

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Post by Harvey » Mon 21 May, 2018 4:54 pm

Dylan Walkers transgender system facing man slaughter charges for bashing her boyfriend.
Wonder if he will have as much to say when he returns from injury

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Post by innsaneink » Mon 21 May, 2018 4:56 pm

Harvey wrote:
Mon 21 May, 2018 4:54 pm
Dylan Walkers transgender system facing man slaughter charges for bashing her boyfriend.
Wonder if he will have as much to say when he returns from injury
huh?

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Post by happy tiger » Mon 21 May, 2018 5:07 pm

innsaneink wrote:
Mon 21 May, 2018 4:56 pm
Harvey wrote:
Mon 21 May, 2018 4:54 pm
Dylan Walkers transgender system facing man slaughter charges for bashing her boyfriend.
Wonder if he will have as much to say when he returns from injury
huh?
is that supposed to be sister , not system ??

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... Sands.html

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