Ivan Cleary - THREAD..

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sideline eye
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Re: Ivan Cleary - THREAD..

Post by sideline eye » Sun 23 Sep, 2018 11:12 pm

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 6:30 am
sideline eye wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 10:50 pm
At the moment I'm sure the club is looking at this issue from all angles, including the legal situation of the various scenarios. Having sacked a coach 18 months ago and having to pay him out, to sack another coach would be a heavy financial burden if they had to pay him out plus pay another senior coach to take his place.

Whilst I no longer doubt that Penrith have or will make an offer to Cleary for 2021, it seems that we need for Ivan to make an early move for a release. If Ivan is still an honourable man, it would be the honourable thing to do, so that the club can get on with its future without an extra financial penalty. Will we sack him? Will he walk? I'd hate to be a director or CEO at Wests Tigers right now.

Something needs to be said about Penrith's morals in all this. They are a financially powerful club who have done their best to derail a club (Wests Tigers) which is trying hard to get its affairs to a stage where they are seriously competitive with richer clubs (and perhaps a motive could be gleaned in this but I think they are just being self serving rather than being Machiavellian). In doing so, they have blackened their own name and for mine will always be synonymous with being shameful bullies. I'm sure that one day they will wake up to what they are doing to their own brand and tell Gould to walk the plank.
As it stands now Ivan doesn’t have to do anything, he’s said he’l stay , and I haven’t heard anything else where he’s said differently,
The club most likely can’t break their contract with him without expensive penalties, and if he’s doing his job he can’t be pushed to cleaning Dunnies.
The Club would be cutting off their own nose if they got another Coach in and had to pay both of them,
It may end up that they will have to simply release him if they want to replace him

As for mentioning a RLClub’s morals in the one breath, that’s pretty Nieve.
Clubs don’t know what morals are and will shaft their grandmother if it meant getting an advantage.
ALL clubs.........we’re no different!
It’s just that some clubs are better than others at what they all do.
To be complaining about bullies is a bit childish . It’s a dog eat dog Battle as far as the clubs go, and always has been,
I wish that WTs would be just as ruthless when it comes to getting the players that we need.

As for the”powerful Clubs “ reference , I thought that Wests Ashfield had plenty of money, so we can’t
Use that as an excuse, we just need to get smarter and more aggressive in our signings
Some but nowhere near all NRL clubs, behave in an ethical way, however, if the majority are behaving unethically, then what else can be done other than complaining about it? That is the only way to bring about change, agitating for it and far from being naive, it is what grownups do. Perhaps I see the world differently to some but I don't think that Wests Tigers have acted in any underhanded way. Perhaps others may recall instances of bad behaviour from our club but I doubt that we have ever set out to destabilise another club just for our own ends.

Why is it childish to complain about our club being bullied by a richer, more powerful opponent? Should we, as fans, just sit by mute? Social media ( of which this forum is a part) is a very powerful tool in the digital age and if we see injustice, we should use the available platforms to speak out. You compare Wests Ashfield with Panthers? Dear me, Wests aren't in the event when it comes to rich clubs, especially Panthers. Anyway, I do take heart from Pascoe and Go for taking a stance that we will not be bullied into doing whatever Penrith want but the destabilising of the club by attempting to sign our coach two years before his contract ends, whilst not illegal, shows that they are nothing if not unethical and we should all complain loud and long about it.

I agree with you that it would be great if we could recruit better but how can we achieve this under the present circumstances? Aggression won't cut it since we can't force players to come here and at the moment we'll be hard pressed to even make it attractive for recruits to come here. As far as Ivan is concerned, I don't advocate sacking him but I have posed the question as to what can we do about him being in a position of divided loyalties. I don't have that answer which is why I said I wouldn't want to be a director or CEO at the moment.


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Post by Geo. » Mon 24 Sep, 2018 12:30 am

innsaneink wrote:
Sun 23 Sep, 2018 9:05 pm
When has Ivan been talking about committing to them (penrith) before his two years before his contract is up, ??

Hasnt happened to my knowledge, stop fabricating things
I think it was in the paper Innk...other sources....
Wests Tigers don't need a Coach.. The playing group has taken over..

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Post by formerguest » Mon 24 Sep, 2018 12:30 am

Pawsandclaws wrote:
Sun 23 Sep, 2018 9:29 pm
I have to say I found this statement from Pascoe intriguing and revealing.

‘‘It’s the Wests Tigers before our friendship,’’ Pascoe said. ‘‘Yeah we have a close relationship, but we need to be pragmatic and professional. Once he [Ivan Cleary] talked to Penrith, he compromised that and I had to put the Tigers first.
For mine it was a little negligent of he and Go to not spell it out in the initial days. Would have saved a lot of arguments on here for many weeks. Still, Cleary himself on the Saturday confirmed plurality of his talks with Penrith, being those that Gould and the press spoke of early on. Many just chose not to see, and/or believe they heard it, or simply target Gould.

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Post by innsaneink » Mon 24 Sep, 2018 5:41 am

Balmainian wrote:
Sun 23 Sep, 2018 10:59 pm
innsaneink wrote:
Sun 23 Sep, 2018 8:26 pm
Balmainian wrote:
Sun 23 Sep, 2018 8:19 pm
innsaneink wrote:
Sun 23 Sep, 2018 6:33 pm


Youre concerned?
Signings made months apart, with an apparent view im assuming to Cleary taking them to Penrith with him in two years time...all designed to fit the balance of that squad and their cap without knowing who is recruited, released & retired in the meantime???

That would be some feat!

:deadhorse:
Another day trolling the net hey ink?
Meh...if thats what you call me replying to your post...cant think of anything else?
All I asked was how long were their contracts.

Either you know how long or you don’t.
It’s a shame your sarcastic comments are a real trend on this forum.
You also said you were concerned our players may be off contract same time as Cleary.
Block me...or get a thicker skin if you dont like my comments

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Post by TrueTiger » Mon 24 Sep, 2018 8:01 am

Geo. wrote:
Mon 24 Sep, 2018 12:30 am
innsaneink wrote:
Sun 23 Sep, 2018 9:05 pm
When has Ivan been talking about committing to them (penrith) before his two years before his contract is up, ??

Hasnt happened to my knowledge, stop fabricating things
I think it was in the paper Innk...other sources....
This is the thing fellas,at the moment all the Ivan going to Penrith next year or at the end of his contract is just TALK...many times on this forum you guys have said "wait until something comes from the club officially"...I stand by what you say,otherwise it becomes more speculation and innuendo without real substance...which leads to agression and panic...
You may see me struggle...but you will never see me quit... :D


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Post by TrueTiger » Mon 24 Sep, 2018 8:08 am

TrueTiger wrote:
Mon 24 Sep, 2018 8:01 am
Geo. wrote:
Mon 24 Sep, 2018 12:30 am
innsaneink wrote:
Sun 23 Sep, 2018 9:05 pm
When has Ivan been talking about committing to them (penrith) before his two years before his contract is up, ??

Hasnt happened to my knowledge, stop fabricating things
I think it was in the paper Innk...other sources....
This is the thing fellas,at the moment all the Ivan going to Penrith next year or at the end of his contract is just TALK...many times on this forum you guys have said "wait until something comes from the club officially"...I stand by what you say,otherwise it becomes more speculation and innuendo without real substance...which leads to agression and panic...

Just to add to my post....I really dont care if Ivan does sign with Penrith after his contract is up with the WTs,as long as he fullfils the contract under its agreements and obligations while employed by the WTs..
You may see me struggle...but you will never see me quit... :D

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Post by Russell » Mon 24 Sep, 2018 8:19 am

Geo. wrote:
Mon 24 Sep, 2018 12:30 am
innsaneink wrote:
Sun 23 Sep, 2018 9:05 pm
When has Ivan been talking about committing to them (penrith) before his two years before his contract is up, ??

Hasnt happened to my knowledge, stop fabricating things
I think it was in the paper Innk...other sources....
Well, then it must be true.....

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Post by Russell » Mon 24 Sep, 2018 8:20 am

TrueTiger wrote:
Mon 24 Sep, 2018 8:08 am
TrueTiger wrote:
Mon 24 Sep, 2018 8:01 am
Geo. wrote:
Mon 24 Sep, 2018 12:30 am
innsaneink wrote:
Sun 23 Sep, 2018 9:05 pm
When has Ivan been talking about committing to them (penrith) before his two years before his contract is up, ??

Hasnt happened to my knowledge, stop fabricating things
I think it was in the paper Innk...other sources....
This is the thing fellas,at the moment all the Ivan going to Penrith next year or at the end of his contract is just TALK...many times on this forum you guys have said "wait until something comes from the club officially"...I stand by what you say,otherwise it becomes more speculation and innuendo without real substance...which leads to agression and panic...

Just to add to my post....I really dont care if Ivan does sign with Penrith after his contract is up with the WTs,as long as he fullfils the contract under its agreements and obligations while employed by the WTs..
Exactly TT.

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Post by Balmainian » Mon 24 Sep, 2018 9:54 am

innsaneink wrote:
Mon 24 Sep, 2018 5:41 am
Balmainian wrote:
Sun 23 Sep, 2018 10:59 pm
innsaneink wrote:
Sun 23 Sep, 2018 8:26 pm
Balmainian wrote:
Sun 23 Sep, 2018 8:19 pm

Another day trolling the net hey ink?
Meh...if thats what you call me replying to your post...cant think of anything else?
All I asked was how long were their contracts.

Either you know how long or you don’t.
It’s a shame your sarcastic comments are a real trend on this forum.
You also said you were concerned our players may be off contract same time as Cleary.
Block me...or get a thicker skin if you dont like my comments
Why should people have to get thicker skins.
Why can’t you just adapt and try being at the social equivalent of most others on here.

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Post by TheDaBoss » Mon 24 Sep, 2018 10:14 am

Russell wrote:
Mon 24 Sep, 2018 8:20 am
TrueTiger wrote:
Mon 24 Sep, 2018 8:08 am
TrueTiger wrote:
Mon 24 Sep, 2018 8:01 am
Geo. wrote:
Mon 24 Sep, 2018 12:30 am


I think it was in the paper Innk...other sources....
This is the thing fellas,at the moment all the Ivan going to Penrith next year or at the end of his contract is just TALK...many times on this forum you guys have said "wait until something comes from the club officially"...I stand by what you say,otherwise it becomes more speculation and innuendo without real substance...which leads to agression and panic...

Just to add to my post....I really dont care if Ivan does sign with Penrith after his contract is up with the WTs,as long as he fullfils the contract under its agreements and obligations while employed by the WTs..
Exactly TT.
Exactly, if he does do that we should be 'prepared' for his departure, with measures put in place so it doesn't cause and fuss or drama

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Post by Pawsandclaws » Mon 24 Sep, 2018 10:58 am

formerguest wrote:
Mon 24 Sep, 2018 12:30 am
Pawsandclaws wrote:
Sun 23 Sep, 2018 9:29 pm
I have to say I found this statement from Pascoe intriguing and revealing.

‘‘It’s the Wests Tigers before our friendship,’’ Pascoe said. ‘‘Yeah we have a close relationship, but we need to be pragmatic and professional. Once he [Ivan Cleary] talked to Penrith, he compromised that and I had to put the Tigers first.
For mine it was a little negligent of he and Go to not spell it out in the initial days. Would have saved a lot of arguments on here for many weeks. Still, Cleary himself on the Saturday confirmed plurality of his talks with Penrith, being those that Gould and the press spoke of early on. Many just chose not to see, and/or believe they heard it, or simply target Gould.
When Pascoe detailed the Club’s position, I thought at the time the option of a legal resolution was not only directed at the Panthers. I also think Pascoe’s comments about being in a position of power and transition and/or exit is a not too subtle dig at IC.

I do support Cleary and hope he stays at the club. He has the support of the players which is important but we do not have all the facts. Wouldn’t it have been interesting to be privy to the initial conversation between Pasco and Cleary?

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Post by Tiger Steve » Mon 24 Sep, 2018 11:02 am

Pawsandclaws wrote:
Mon 24 Sep, 2018 10:58 am
formerguest wrote:
Mon 24 Sep, 2018 12:30 am
Pawsandclaws wrote:
Sun 23 Sep, 2018 9:29 pm
I have to say I found this statement from Pascoe intriguing and revealing.

‘‘It’s the Wests Tigers before our friendship,’’ Pascoe said. ‘‘Yeah we have a close relationship, but we need to be pragmatic and professional. Once he [Ivan Cleary] talked to Penrith, he compromised that and I had to put the Tigers first.
For mine it was a little negligent of he and Go to not spell it out in the initial days. Would have saved a lot of arguments on here for many weeks. Still, Cleary himself on the Saturday confirmed plurality of his talks with Penrith, being those that Gould and the press spoke of early on. Many just chose not to see, and/or believe they heard it, or simply target Gould.
When Pascoe detailed the Club’s position, I thought at the time the option of a legal resolution was not only directed at the Panthers. I also think Pascoe’s comments about being in a position of power and transition and/or exit is a not too subtle dig at IC.

I do support Cleary and hope he stays at the club. He has the support of the players which is important but we do not have all the facts. Wouldn’t it have been interesting to be privy to the initial conversation between Pasco and Cleary?
I’m not sure we’ll see any coach/CEO Q&A sessions any time soon
“Peanuts! Get ya peanuts - in the shell or sugar coated!” Leichhardt memories.

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Post by NT Tiger » Mon 24 Sep, 2018 11:03 am

Pawsandclaws wrote:
Mon 24 Sep, 2018 10:58 am
formerguest wrote:
Mon 24 Sep, 2018 12:30 am
Pawsandclaws wrote:
Sun 23 Sep, 2018 9:29 pm
I have to say I found this statement from Pascoe intriguing and revealing.

‘‘It’s the Wests Tigers before our friendship,’’ Pascoe said. ‘‘Yeah we have a close relationship, but we need to be pragmatic and professional. Once he [Ivan Cleary] talked to Penrith, he compromised that and I had to put the Tigers first.
For mine it was a little negligent of he and Go to not spell it out in the initial days. Would have saved a lot of arguments on here for many weeks. Still, Cleary himself on the Saturday confirmed plurality of his talks with Penrith, being those that Gould and the press spoke of early on. Many just chose not to see, and/or believe they heard it, or simply target Gould.
When Pascoe detailed the Club’s position, I thought at the time the option of a legal resolution was not only directed at the Panthers. I also think Pascoe’s comments about being in a position of power and transition and/or exit is a not too subtle dig at IC.

I do support Cleary and hope he stays at the club. He has the support of the players which is important but we do not have all the facts. Wouldn’t it have been interesting to be privy to the initial conversation between Pasco and Cleary?
I saw Pascoe's comments in the same light, and Cleary was very much in that frame. Yes it would have been good to be a fly on several walls over the past month or so, not least of which in the Cleary family kitchen.
"Quality Stupidity"

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Post by rex2ce » Mon 24 Sep, 2018 11:50 am

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Sun 23 Sep, 2018 10:15 pm
Balmainian wrote:
Sun 23 Sep, 2018 8:19 pm
innsaneink wrote:
Sun 23 Sep, 2018 6:33 pm
Balmainian wrote:
Sun 23 Sep, 2018 5:21 pm


I wonder when the signings he has made are due to expire with us.
If Mbye, Matterson and co are all off contract in 2021 id be a little concerned.
Youre concerned?
Signings made months apart, with an apparent view im assuming to Cleary taking them to Penrith with him in two years time...all designed to fit the balance of that squad and their cap without knowing who is recruited, released & retired in the meantime???

That would be some feat!


:deadhorse:
Another day trolling the net hey ink?
Rex, He doesn’t need to take players to Penrith,
They keep churning good players out of their system every year , there’s not too many spots open in

Their team and their Developement pathways
I didn’t say he was GT ,was another poster

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Post by Chris » Mon 24 Sep, 2018 11:50 am

One of two things need to happen before pre-season training starts.....

1. Ivan Cleary extends his contract
or
2. Ivan Cleary leaves the Wests Togers.

If Ivan Cleary leaves, Penrith need to buy out his contract or the Wests Tigers should sue the Panthers and the NRL.

Anything outside of that makes Ivan Cleary's position untenable.

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Post by TYGA » Mon 24 Sep, 2018 11:52 am

First time in a while I have faith in management to get the right outcome.
Either way through tough times since Wests assumes control we are better managed.

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Post by Tiger Steve » Mon 24 Sep, 2018 11:59 am

Chris wrote:
Mon 24 Sep, 2018 11:50 am
One of two things need to happen before pre-season training starts.....

1. Ivan Cleary extends his contract
or
2. Ivan Cleary leaves the Wests Togers.

If Ivan Cleary leaves, Penrith need to buy out his contract or the Wests Tigers should sue the Panthers and the NRL.

Anything outside of that makes Ivan Cleary's position untenable.
I’m with you 100% Chris.
So disappointing that we always seem to cope the raw deal. Nathan Cleary coming to Tigers - of course not. Ivan Cleary committing to rebuild - of course not. Marquee signings - of course not.
I’m confident we have the management to drive our club towards success but I think it’s going to be a long hard road.
“Peanuts! Get ya peanuts - in the shell or sugar coated!” Leichhardt memories.

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Post by hugh1954 » Mon 24 Sep, 2018 12:28 pm

We have a contract for the next 2 years, settle down let Ivan get on with the job, love his 2 Rooster signings and wait for the rest over the coming months. Let Gould figure out his mess if Ceraldo is not up to it OR makes a bird of it and wants a contract extension after 2019 either way we have a contract for the next 2 years and can work on a new coach in 2020 if Ivan does not want to extend. If he wants out now MUST extract HUGE compensation.

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