2018 Grand Final Melbourne v Roosters

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Black'n'White
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Re: 2018 Grand Final Melbourne v Roosters

Post by Black'n'White » Mon 01 Oct, 2018 1:26 pm

gallagher wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 1:03 pm
Onthebus wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 11:30 am
gallagher wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 9:24 am
Onthebus wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 9:22 am
We aren't in the same market place, hence why TPAs need to go
Same sport, same city. It's exactly the same market place. They just do it better.
They Rort the cap via shonky TPAs

Simple really
Why have they got TPAs and we don't?
Have a read of this Gallagher... if the numbers are correct, then it isnt the TPA's seperating the Roosters and us. It wouldnt be a stretch to assume that the team on over $300k is the Roosters, but its a tough pill to swallow to believe that their squad is only $300k better than ours. There is something else going on, as they are somehow able to get from last place to the top in an offseason, and then stay there with a squad they can keep at will. This is one article, I could dig out a few that show that we arent millions behind Roosters in legit TPAs...
https://www.nrl.com/news/2018/08/30/ret ... e-of-tpas/


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Post by kiwitiger » Mon 01 Oct, 2018 1:29 pm

I've been thinking about this article all afternoon. Itreally it goes to show how this club has treadded water for 19 years. Our board has been looking at surviving while other places have been appointing board members who will grow and lead the club to a more self sustaining model. Really the damage was done when we had a Balmain and weats 50/50 split. Even though we won a comp early on we did not have the foresight to improve our position but just keep doing what we always have. Such a pity as I don't ever see us bridging the gap between the two clubs now. only if they appoint the wrong people and easts fall apart.

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Post by Russell » Mon 01 Oct, 2018 2:08 pm

Spud Murphy wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 9:53 am
Russell wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 8:44 am
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 6:08 am
“Souless “players is a ridiculous way to refer to two players who want the best deal for their efforts, they are professional sportsmen, who want to be the best , and want to play with the best, at the highest level.p
Too bad that we don’t want have more like them
Instead of crying about the way that the Roosters are run we should be trying to be more like them

Nick Politis is a real supporter of the club and has been for decades , and is now setting up some property as an income for the Roosters future, for when he’s no longer here.

We have HT,
Who we only hear from when he needs us for a bit of publicity.

If , we have as many supporters as the club keeps telling us, surely there is some businessmen that our Silent Board members know of ,who could be Cajoled into getting behind our club
,
The Roosters expect to be successfull, And plan for it
We and a lot of clubs only Hope for it

If this Board can’t start to get other people to support this club then get rid of them and look for people who are used to success .
Running other clubs down who ARE successful ,doesn’t help at all.
Just because we can’t attract players like Cronk and Tedesco isn’t their fault, it’s our problem.
We have to think and learn from the better clubs if we want to be up
There with them on a regular basis.

But we probably won’t do anything different, we’ll just keep on criticising people who want to be the best, AND keep on losing them to the top clubs
Take exception to putting crap on Harry - he has put more money into Balmain and the Wests Tigers than anyone else in their history.

Why should he put more in????
Hasn't got us anywhere or bought us any marquee players on a regular basis, still have sub standard facilities also - I have to wonder what exactly they put Harry's money into?
Maybe he wondered where his millions went as well - that's why he isn't still coffing up so much.

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Post by gallagher » Mon 01 Oct, 2018 2:51 pm

kiwitiger wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 1:29 pm
I've been thinking about this article all afternoon. Itreally it goes to show how this club has treadded water for 19 years. Our board has been looking at surviving while other places have been appointing board members who will grow and lead the club to a more self sustaining model. Really the damage was done when we had a Balmain and weats 50/50 split. Even though we won a comp early on we did not have the foresight to improve our position but just keep doing what we always have. Such a pity as I don't ever see us bridging the gap between the two clubs now. only if they appoint the wrong people and easts fall apart.
That's exactly the position we are in.

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Mon 01 Oct, 2018 7:36 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 11:37 am
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 6:08 am
“Souless “players is a ridiculous way to refer to two players who want the best deal for their efforts, they are professional sportsmen, who want to be the best , and want to play with the best, at the highest level.p
Too bad that we don’t want have more like them
For starters you seem to forget that we did have 1 of those 2 players.

And yes they are soulless to me. Personal branding, no charisma, weird unpassionate media statements. Maybe Nofo hasn't the same talent but at least I can respect his passion for his team and club before his personal glory.

Cronk and Tedesco are all about Team Cronk and Team Tedesco
Complete drivel, but your entitled to your opinion


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Post by goldcoast tiger » Mon 01 Oct, 2018 7:39 pm

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 7:36 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 11:37 am
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 6:08 am
“Souless “players is a ridiculous way to refer to two players who want the best deal for their efforts, they are professional sportsmen, who want to be the best , and want to play with the best, at the highest level.p
Too bad that we don’t want have more like them
For starters you seem to forget that we did have 1 of those 2 players.

And yes they are soulless to me. Personal branding, no charisma, weird unpassionate media statements. Maybe Nofo hasn't the same talent but at least I can respect his passion for his team and club before his personal glory.

Cronk and Tedesco are all about Team Cronk and Team Tedesco
Complete drivel, but your entitled to your opinion
And I do remember that Teddy was here and I remember the state this club was in at the time
I doubt that many other players that aspired to play at the top, would have stayed here either

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Post by Snake » Mon 01 Oct, 2018 7:49 pm

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 7:39 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 7:36 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 11:37 am
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 6:08 am
“Souless “players is a ridiculous way to refer to two players who want the best deal for their efforts, they are professional sportsmen, who want to be the best , and want to play with the best, at the highest level.p
Too bad that we don’t want have more like them
For starters you seem to forget that we did have 1 of those 2 players.

And yes they are soulless to me. Personal branding, no charisma, weird unpassionate media statements. Maybe Nofo hasn't the same talent but at least I can respect his passion for his team and club before his personal glory.

Cronk and Tedesco are all about Team Cronk and Team Tedesco
Complete drivel, but your entitled to your opinion
And I do remember that Teddy was here and I remember the state this club was in at the time
I doubt that many other players that aspired to play at the top, would have stayed here either
Teddy hung around when the club was a shambles and I agree if he wanted to go to the next level he had to go to a more professionally run club with the financial backing to secure his future I have no problem with that he has now reached that level.

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Mon 01 Oct, 2018 8:08 pm

Snake wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 7:49 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 7:39 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 7:36 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 11:37 am

For starters you seem to forget that we did have 1 of those 2 players.

And yes they are soulless to me. Personal branding, no charisma, weird unpassionate media statements. Maybe Nofo hasn't the same talent but at least I can respect his passion for his team and club before his personal glory.

Cronk and Tedesco are all about Team Cronk and Team Tedesco
Complete drivel, but your entitled to your opinion
And I do remember that Teddy was here and I remember the state this club was in at the time
I doubt that many other players that aspired to play at the top, would have stayed here either,
Hell, even Moses wanted to leave , and he was a total waste of space
Teddy hung around when the club was a shambles and I agree if he wanted to go to the next level he had to go to a more professionally run club with the financial backing to secure his future I have no problem with that he has now reached that level.

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Post by Onthebus » Tue 02 Oct, 2018 10:47 am

gallagher wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 1:03 pm
Onthebus wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 11:30 am
gallagher wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 9:24 am
Onthebus wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 9:22 am
We aren't in the same market place, hence why TPAs need to go
Same sport, same city. It's exactly the same market place. They just do it better.
They Rort the cap via shonky TPAs

Simple really
Why have they got TPAs and we don't?
Tigers don't have beachside views out at Ctown or Concord, units to give away overlooking Bondi in shonky TPA deals

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Post by happy tiger » Tue 02 Oct, 2018 11:47 am

innsaneink wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 6:59 am
mightymagpie wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 12:50 am
jirskyr wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 12:23 am
I'm curious all the Melbourne haters in the thread, is it the players or what the club stands for? Because Melbourne might have previously been cheats, but no salary cap issues for a decade. Otherwise it's, what, the way they bend and test the rules?

Well I believe the Roosters bend and test the rules as well, just in a different facet. They are literally superior in every single position to Tigers 1-17 and ran out a team this evening just chock full of rep talent.

Roosters essentially flashed the chequebook last year and picked up two soulless $1M players. They cherry-picked two of arguably the top 5 or 6 players in the entire game to "complement" the team they already had, let go of a few nuffies, and didn't even have to wait more than 1 season to jag the premiership.

If that doesn't upset people as much as Melbourne have done, I don't get why not. I get some people can't choose between the teams, but to be celebratory about the Roosters... I cannot see any possibility how.

The only saving grace was watching Smith and Slater choke on their bitterness, and not to have to put up with a Slater arse-kissing in the post-match.
I totally agree. I dislike the Storm probably because I’m just jealous of their success over such an extended period of time. But the Roosters- I just can’t see how any non-Roosters fan can celebrate their victory knowing how they bought themselves a premiership.

To me this grand final has shown everything that’s wrong with the game. And the dramas at our club just makes me depressed to the point where I feel like giving up on the NRL altogether. Maybe the only thing that will give me something to smile about would be if the Roosters get done for cheating the cap. And we all know the likelihood of that.....
Talking to my bro in law after the game I felt similar, thinking about how we as a club fit into it all, how far away we are and just the unevenness of the comp as a whole.
I look at Cronks display and I see something thats been earnt very much, it will go down in history and the Roosters owe Cronk everything...but Cronks pain will subside and he will never have to want for anything ever again as hes earnt the right to be a Politis lackey for the rest of his days, much like Mini, Ricko etc
They as a club however earnt nothing, they bought it...
Unless theres some drastic change in the way the cap/TPAs are ...I cant see us challenging seriously any time soon really...another 05 is a lifetime away
Yeah it's a confusing argument Ink from both sides

If we had built on our successes from 2010/2011 as we really should have , would we ourselves care if we were a continual premiership contender when other sides were continually in the position we are ??

And the next question has to be asked , as a sportsperson you want to be a winner , and this sport is a tough sport , maybe the toughest physically of any sports , if you could take a slight pay cut and be guaranteed a realistic chance of winning a premiership most seasons without having to take as many risks as you would at a lesser club like ours , is it worth it ??

Is it fair the Roosters give up the advantages they have earned ,but when you see the coach give away his premiership ring to a bit part player doesn't that make players want to stay , take a hit in the hip pocket , all it takes is each player to take a 5 k hit in the hip pocket to get one better standard player

You win premierships , you generally look a better player and that can help you pay packet down the track

Yet as you say , who is going to want to watch the same sides in the GF , I believe this GF was the worst viewed GF since the NRL began in 2000

The NRL is still a business as are the teams , no one hands you advantages in the market place because you are substandard in almost every area and are not prepared to change your mentality / location and make a consistent product people want a part of to become viable option

Again I guess it depends what view you take of the situation , view it as a WT's fan or an NRL fan

I think the club's problem still stems from the fact we would settle being the 8th best business in our market , not learning from our mistakes , finding out how to be the best , not settle for 8th best and aim to be the best

Best example in my opinion is the Sharks , they have done every in their powers and even gone beyond the rules to become a NRL power , not many years ago they made us look like superpowers

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Post by Snake » Tue 02 Oct, 2018 12:05 pm

We can moan and groan about the NRL all we like , the reality is OUR club has to decide what it wants for itself , supporters and stakeholders .
The club can not make a decision to play at one home ground as it will upset set a few .., who cares the shackles have to be broken, the other is the training facilities there is this pie in the sky plan for Concord ! When is this coming on line ?. Imo the club is spreading itself to thin , consolidating its area and home ground and putting all there resources into that decision is the only way the club will be a major force .

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Post by jirskyr » Tue 02 Oct, 2018 12:44 pm

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 7:39 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 7:36 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 11:37 am
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 6:08 am
“Souless “players is a ridiculous way to refer to two players who want the best deal for their efforts, they are professional sportsmen, who want to be the best , and want to play with the best, at the highest level.p
Too bad that we don’t want have more like them
For starters you seem to forget that we did have 1 of those 2 players.

And yes they are soulless to me. Personal branding, no charisma, weird unpassionate media statements. Maybe Nofo hasn't the same talent but at least I can respect his passion for his team and club before his personal glory.

Cronk and Tedesco are all about Team Cronk and Team Tedesco
Complete drivel, but your entitled to your opinion
And I do remember that Teddy was here and I remember the state this club was in at the time
I doubt that many other players that aspired to play at the top, would have stayed here either
What a silly indictment - that the current Tigers players don't aspire to play at the top, don't want to be the best? That is what you are saying.

Tigers brought Tedesco through, every single grade. Roosters contributed ZERO dollars to his development. Tigers developed Tedesco at the expense of other footballers. Think about guys like Papenhuyzen - bloke might not make it, but what if Papenhuyzen becomes a first-grade star? His development at Tigers was down-prioritised for Tedesco.

You talk about state of the club - well the year Tedesco debuted we had just come off two straight finals runs. He broke down and contributed nothing to the 2012 campaign; to cover for that we had to move Moltzen to FB and we were short a halfback all season. Not his fault but he contributed to a poor 2012 season.

Tigers never made the finals any year Tedesco played. Again not entirely his fault, but he was a contributor. And we paid him more than most other players, so we needed more from him.

Tedesco made rep sides whilst playing for Tigers - he didn't need to join a "successful" club to get rep honours.

So ultimately if you are making an argument that we should respect or support a guy who wants to be the best, play with the best, play at the top - I can understand it, but never support it. If all you want to do is play with the best players, then to hell with the salary cap. I won't cop an excuse that Tedesco had to leave to obtain the success he dreamed of - it's those types of comments that still rankle Cronulla fans when thinking about Blake Ferguson.

The true legends of the game are those that take ordinary teams to the finals, that sacrifice personal glory for the benefit of their teammates. Tedesco isn't one of those, sorry. Some people climb the mountain and some take a helicopter.

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Post by greatodensraven » Tue 02 Oct, 2018 1:03 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Tue 02 Oct, 2018 12:44 pm

The true legends of the game are those that take ordinary teams to the finals, that sacrifice personal glory for the benefit of their teammates. Tedesco isn't one of those, sorry. Some people climb the mountain and some take a helicopter.

Agree 100%

I'm hoping Brooks turns out to be one of these for us!

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Post by tiger05premier » Tue 02 Oct, 2018 1:08 pm

greatodensraven wrote:
Tue 02 Oct, 2018 1:03 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Tue 02 Oct, 2018 12:44 pm

The true legends of the game are those that take ordinary teams to the finals, that sacrifice personal glory for the benefit of their teammates. Tedesco isn't one of those, sorry. Some people climb the mountain and some take a helicopter.

Agree 100%

I'm hoping Brooks turns out to be one of these for us!
Agree as well

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Post by jirskyr » Tue 02 Oct, 2018 1:20 pm

happy tiger wrote:
Tue 02 Oct, 2018 11:47 am
Best example in my opinion is the Sharks , they have done every in their powers and even gone beyond the rules to become a NRL power , not many years ago they made us look like superpowers
Right, but is that the club or the players making that difference? Broncos for example are by far and away the most financially successful and profitable club in the competition. It is not translating into on-field dominance.

Sharkies were not so far off being insolvent a few years ago and were saved by their development application. Is that the reason they are now successful, or is it just a timing coincidence that the on-field performance started to peak around the same time the club started to lift themselves out of financial dire straits?

Tigers, by all accounts, are doing modestly well financially and are up on many off-field KPIs - members, crowds, merchandise, sponsorship, revenues, profit. So off-field the club is certainly in a better position than we were a few years ago, but not a financial powerhouse by any means.

And Roosters? Well some people are creaming their jeans reading about Politis and his planned property portfolio for the Roosters as his legacy. To be honest I don't exactly know what Politis means, but if you read the Roosters' 2017 annual report they have $57.2M of consolidated assets in property/plants/equipment and $8.8M in investment property. Not the $500M Politis talks of, but I'm no business manager and I don't know where he gets his figures from.

Of competitors - Broncos report property assets of only $22M, though they are in Brisbane and land values are lower. Wests backers are no slouches - Ashfield group have property of $57M, same as Easts, and Wests Campbelltown have property that swamps them both - $80M.

Then look over at Penrith, where the Leagues club holds $215M of property/plant/equipment - 4x as much as Easts.

So of course we should aspire to be more like Politis, because the bloke knows how to spend money on football. But I don't think anyone here can state with any confidence how close or far away from Easts we truly are, from a financial point of view.

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Post by gallagher » Tue 02 Oct, 2018 2:57 pm

Onthebus wrote:
Tue 02 Oct, 2018 10:47 am
gallagher wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 1:03 pm
Onthebus wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 11:30 am
gallagher wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 9:24 am


Same sport, same city. It's exactly the same market place. They just do it better.
They Rort the cap via shonky TPAs

Simple really
Why have they got TPAs and we don't?
Tigers don't have beachside views out at Ctown or Concord, units to give away overlooking Bondi in shonky TPA deals
Where the chooks gifted the real estate by someone? Or have they bought them via smart management and investment? Do you have to live in Concord or Campbo to play for us?

Woe is us hey? That should be our motto.

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Tue 02 Oct, 2018 3:57 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Tue 02 Oct, 2018 12:44 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 7:39 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 7:36 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Mon 01 Oct, 2018 11:37 am

For starters you seem to forget that we did have 1 of those 2 players.

And yes they are soulless to me. Personal branding, no charisma, weird unpassionate media statements. Maybe Nofo hasn't the same talent but at least I can respect his passion for his team and club before his personal glory.

Cronk and Tedesco are all about Team Cronk and Team Tedesco
Complete drivel, but your entitled to your opinion
And I do remember that Teddy was here and I remember the state this club was in at the time
I doubt that many other players that aspired to play at the top, would have stayed here either
What a silly indictment - that the current Tigers players don't aspire to play at the top, don't want to be the best? That is what you are saying.

Tigers brought Tedesco through, every single grade. Roosters contributed ZERO dollars to his development. Tigers developed Tedesco at the expense of other footballers. Think about guys like Papenhuyzen - bloke might not make it, but what if Papenhuyzen becomes a first-grade star? His development at Tigers was down-prioritised for Tedesco.

You talk about state of the club - well the year Tedesco debuted we had just come off two straight finals runs. He broke down and contributed nothing to the 2012 campaign; to cover for that we had to move Moltzen to FB and we were short a halfback all season. Not his fault but he contributed to a poor 2012 season.

Tigers never made the finals any year Tedesco played. Again not entirely his fault, but he was a contributor. And we paid him more than most other players, so we needed more from him.

Tedesco made rep sides whilst playing for Tigers - he didn't need to join a "successful" club to get rep honours.

So ultimately if you are making an argument that we should respect or support a guy who wants to be the best, play with the best, play at the top - I can understand it, but never support it. If all you want to do is play with the best players, then to hell with the salary cap. I won't cop an excuse that Tedesco had to leave to obtain the success he dreamed of - it's those types of comments that still rankle Cronulla fans when thinking about Blake Ferguson.

The true legends of the game are those that take ordinary teams to the finals, that sacrifice personal glory for the benefit of their teammates. Tedesco isn't one of those, sorry. Some people climb the mountain and some take a helicopter.
You certainly like putting words in other people’s mouth
I don’t think I mentioned current players at all,

As for the fact that the Roosters didn’t pay for his development, did we pay for Mattersons development ?? We don’t mind getting him.
If you don’t like the way RL is run talk to the NRL about player development.

At the moment the rules are what they are, and if we thought that we could snaffle a top young player from the club that developed him , we’d be on to it like a rat up a rafter, and you’d be cheering as much as any one here,
I don’t remember seeing you spruiking that we were being unfair, when we were so wrapped in trying to snatchNathan away from the club that developed him,

A bit of selective indignation I think

I would bet that almost any young player that was off contract, and was offered to play with a genuine contender for a premiership and play among the best , and get top money, would do.same thing
So when you next get cheesed off about Teddy going, Just remember how most here ,were almost wetting themselves at the thought of poaching Nathan.
That is , untill we found out that he was re signing with the Panthers, then he lost all popularity with us and the critism of him started

But I haven’t heard of one singleposter, who was offended by the fact that he was supposed to be walking out on the club that had spent all that money on his developement
He had gone through the Penrith juniors @ Rep teamsand was looked at as being the face of the club
Not one poster saying “please Nathan stay with Penrith”.

I’m glad that he decided to stay with Penrith , because it stops all of us having to be aghast at what damage that we would have caused for Penrith if we Poached him
BUT...........that’s different.......Isn’t it

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Post by jirskyr » Tue 02 Oct, 2018 4:49 pm

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Tue 02 Oct, 2018 3:57 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Tue 02 Oct, 2018 12:44 pm
What a silly indictment - that the current Tigers players don't aspire to play at the top, don't want to be the best? That is what you are saying.
You certainly like putting words in other people’s mouth
I don’t think I mentioned current players at all,
Let's revisit
goldcoast tiger wrote: I doubt that many other players that aspired to play at the top, would have stayed here either
You are talking expressly of the exact moment when Tedesco left, not a day before, not after? So when he signed for Roosters May 2017, you "doubt that many others players who aspired to play at the top would have stayed either". Ergo, players who did stay, you doubt they aspire to play at the top?

18 of the 30 players who played with Tedesco in 2017 stayed at Tigers in 2018, i.e. are current players.

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