I Will Finally Call It!

All First Grade related topics in regards to the off-season through to Season 2012
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GNR4LIFE
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Re: I Will Finally Call It!

Post by GNR4LIFE » Fri 06 Jan, 2012 5:05 pm

One thing i don't understand is that whenever Sheens head gets called for (which hasn't happened a lot lately) other people counter that by comparing how things were before Sheens got here, and argue that they don't want things to be like that ever again. Yes this place was a basket case, but that feels like a lifetime ago now. To think this place will ever become a basket case again if Sheens ever leaves is rediculous. There will come a time when he will leave, and when that day comes, i'm sure the club will be in good shape


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Post by helmesy » Fri 06 Jan, 2012 5:45 pm

innsaneink wrote:
Tiger Watto wrote:Sheens hasnt swayed for 3 years with Moltzen at Fullback... Yes he entertained McKinnon due to his natural ability as a 1 while Moltz was working his way back into 2011, but the bloke is as stubborn as an Ox, and I cant see him moving Moltzen for Round 1.
Yes....he's very persistent and consistent....Moltz will be #1
Well we'll see.

And for everyone who says Sheens doesn't change his strategies - what about the strategy of not rushing a talented youngster?

Miller has heaps of talent but he is not ready for the grind of NRL.

What about the decisions to move Farah to half-back, or Marshall to half-back, he changed his mind on those.

Again I put it to you that there is no other option at half than Moltzen - we have heaps of options at fullback headed by Reddy, Brown, Humble, and even Ryan or maybe Grant.

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Post by supercoach » Fri 06 Jan, 2012 6:58 pm

Like Watto and others I just dont think Moltzen is a standout no7. He might be adequate but with a poor kicking game, no real ability to direct play and a selfish passing game I cant see him doing the job in 2012

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Post by Tigersmurf » Fri 06 Jan, 2012 7:10 pm

helmesy wrote:
innsaneink wrote:
Tiger Watto wrote:Sheens hasnt swayed for 3 years with Moltzen at Fullback... Yes he entertained McKinnon due to his natural ability as a 1 while Moltz was working his way back into 2011, but the bloke is as stubborn as an Ox, and I cant see him moving Moltzen for Round 1.
Yes....he's very persistent and consistent....Moltz will be #1
Well we'll see.

And for everyone who says Sheens doesn't change his strategies - what about the strategy of not rushing a talented youngster?

Miller has heaps of talent but he is not ready for the grind of NRL.

What about the decisions to move Farah to half-back, or Marshall to half-back, he changed his mind on those.

Again I put it to you that there is no other option at half than Moltzen - we have heaps of options at fullback headed by Reddy, Brown, Humble, and even Ryan or maybe Grant.
Disagree with the half options. I do consider Moltz a more than capable halfback. He can take a lot of pressure off Benji and does have a long kicking game. He has never had to develop his kicking game because he has changed positions so much. I would prefer he got first shot.

In terms of other options, we have Miller, Humble and Chisolm which are a lot more options then we have had in the past. I am looking forward to seeing them all get a go in the trials.

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Post by willow » Fri 06 Jan, 2012 7:30 pm

helmesy wrote:
innsaneink wrote:
Tiger Watto wrote:Sheens hasnt swayed for 3 years with Moltzen at Fullback... Yes he entertained McKinnon due to his natural ability as a 1 while Moltz was working his way back into 2011, but the bloke is as stubborn as an Ox, and I cant see him moving Moltzen for Round 1.
Yes....he's very persistent and consistent....Moltz will be #1
Well we'll see.

And for everyone who says Sheens doesn't change his strategies - what about the strategy of not rushing a talented youngster?

Miller has heaps of talent but he is not ready for the grind of NRL.

What about the decisions to move Farah to half-back, or Marshall to half-back, he changed his mind on those.

Again I put it to you that there is no other option at half than Moltzen - we have heaps of options at fullback headed by Reddy, Brown, Humble, and even Ryan or maybe Grant.
Miller, Chisholm and Humble are all very much in the running for the 7 jersey.


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Post by Flippedy » Fri 06 Jan, 2012 7:57 pm

Stating the obvious, I guess we'll all just have to wait and see who plays best with who during the trials, then we will have our team. Personally, I'm hoping Sheens leaves Moltzen at fullback for now and tries both Miller and Chisholm out at half. Chisholm's experience may give him the edge here, but who knows. One thing for sure, with the likes of Grant, Reddy, Humble and Brown all waiting in the wings, whoever is first chosen at fullback and half will not be able to rest on their laurels for too long - a very healthy situation indeed :)
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Post by smoking gun » Fri 06 Jan, 2012 9:54 pm

supercoach wrote:
smoking gun wrote:I think we are Gf bound this year, real strong squad some may say we lack a prop but Blair will fill that role nicely. He will start in the back row then move to prop allowing for a very flexible bench without compromising size or mobility. Depending on what happens @ 7 whether it be moltzen or chisolm I think we have a good fullbacks in the wings if molts goes to half.

Sheens will be here no matter what happens next year, unless u are in the inner sanctum u will never know the impact and influence he has on this organization
So smoking gun, you are telling us the no7 is Moltzen or Chisolm. Iam not doubting you but I would have thought Moltzen was a shoe in for the no1 and Miller would get first crack at the no7. Will be interesting how it pans out, your info is seldom wrong and young Chisolm has plenty of raps on him. IMO Moltzen is a no1 and not a 7 and it would be a back flip for Sheens to play him in the no7 role.
Miller chisolm and moltz are going to be given their chance but if word is right around here, chisolm is favored leading into the trials

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Post by happy tiger » Fri 06 Jan, 2012 10:08 pm

Well the way Moltzen finished the season at fullback (and I was one of his harshest critics ) he should be given the No 1 jersey

Which leaves us with Miller and Chisholm as the 2 main contenders

We may not choose the best player for the position but the player that fits in best with Benji and Robbie and the balance of the side

Chisholm defence seems much sturdier than both either Miller or Lui but Miller would appear to have the better kicking game and slightly better running game

So what is more important to the 2012 Tigers

A kicking game or defence ??

Personally I think we are the best side in the comp with a competent kicking game

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Post by Cultured Bogan » Fri 06 Jan, 2012 10:12 pm

Kicking game Happy. Defence is the second rowers job. Miller is a better defender than Lui IMO.
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Post by Blackandwhite » Fri 06 Jan, 2012 10:50 pm

Cultured Bogan wrote:Kicking game Happy. Defence is the second rowers job. Miller is a better defender than Lui IMO.
Well IMO having watched every one of his games Miller is definitely not better than Lui.

Miller was actually quite dreadful in the second half of the season playing NYC .....Ohh wait he was playing injured I forgot.

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Post by happy tiger » Fri 06 Jan, 2012 10:56 pm

Blackandwhite wrote:
Cultured Bogan wrote:Kicking game Happy. Defence is the second rowers job. Miller is a better defender than Lui IMO.
Well IMO having watched every one of his games Miller is definitely not better than Lui.

Miller was actually quite dreadful in the second half of the season playing NYC .....Ohh wait he was playing injured I forgot.
Which way do you lean for the half back role B &W ??

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Post by Blackandwhite » Sat 07 Jan, 2012 1:10 am

happy tiger wrote:
Blackandwhite wrote:
Cultured Bogan wrote:Kicking game Happy. Defence is the second rowers job. Miller is a better defender than Lui IMO.
Well IMO having watched every one of his games Miller is definitely not better than Lui.

Miller was actually quite dreadful in the second half of the season playing NYC .....Ohh wait he was playing injured I forgot.
Which way do you lean for the half back role B &W ??
I think we will obviously know more after the trials, I know Sheens would like to squeeze Tedesco into the team so that would mean Moltzen half back. I don't like that, I wouldn't be rushing Tedesco but I trust Sheens knows what he is doing.

I like Miller, he just has that attitude about him. His defence was very sub standard towards the back end of the year he looked like he didn't want to be there.

But he is a great organiser, he knows when and where to kick, he is what we need to guide us around the park. I don't think he will have the same attitude playing NRL. If Miller has improved his defence and I hope he has then he should be our half back and Moltzen fullback.

Chisholm needs to pick up his fitness before Sheens will have a look at him but he is a very skillful player.

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Post by smoking gun » Sat 07 Jan, 2012 8:44 am

I don't think we can go wrong with moltz miller or chisolm each will compliment Marshall and farah, they don't need to be a superstar we already have 2 of them in the play making area, but for me and what I've seen chisolm does look to have the more complete game. Though I am a massive fan of molts @ 7

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Post by Tiger Watto » Sat 07 Jan, 2012 9:10 am

helmesy wrote:Again I put it to you that there is no other option at half than Moltzen - we have heaps of options at fullback headed by Reddy, Brown, Humble, and even Ryan or maybe Grant.
Your sounding like a Moltz@7 Fan Club Director... :crazy

The fact is Moltzen at 7 is also unproven at NRL Level. He's played a handful of games there, but realistically, Marshall played 7 in most of those games and Moltz played a roving role. I think we have seen enough of Marshall playing this 7 role and he needs to play wider of the ruck to be dangerous. We need a suitable option to play inside of him at 7, not a split 6.

Furthermore, none of your Fullback options are proven through the week to week grind of NRL to justify moving Moltzen. Brown, Humble & Grant are simply State Cup Players at this stage. Has Reddy actually played a game at Fullback in the NRL?

The only facts we know are Sheens has always seen Moltzen as a Fullback. Sheens believes Miller has the potential to step up to NRL as was obvious by his few games last year. Sheens has big wraps on James Tedesco. We have bought Chisholm as another potential 7/6.
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Post by Tigersmurf » Sat 07 Jan, 2012 9:32 am

I have to disagree with your last paragraph Watto. I think Sheens sees Moltzen as a player who can cover many positions. He has used him in the halves before, and when Moltzen had time there he went really well. I think he used him t fullback as he was our best option at the time in that position.

The best thing we can do is pick a first string halfback in the trials and stick with him. Whether it is Moltz, Miller or Chisolm they need to know that the position is theirs and they have time to get comfortable. I am with gun on this one - I think Moltzen is the best choice at half but his kicking game will need work.

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Post by helmesy » Sat 07 Jan, 2012 9:39 am

Tiger Watto wrote:
helmesy wrote:Again I put it to you that there is no other option at half than Moltzen - we have heaps of options at fullback headed by Reddy, Brown, Humble, and even Ryan or maybe Grant.
Your sounding like a Moltz@7 Fan Club Director... :crazy

The fact is Moltzen at 7 is also unproven at NRL Level. He's played a handful of games there, but realistically, Marshall played 7 in most of those games and Moltz played a roving role. I think we have seen enough of Marshall playing this 7 role and he needs to play wider of the ruck to be dangerous. We need a suitable option to play inside of him at 7, not a split 6.

Furthermore, none of your Fullback options are proven through the week to week grind of NRL to justify moving Moltzen. Brown, Humble & Grant are simply State Cup Players at this stage. Has Reddy actually played a game at Fullback in the NRL?

The only facts we know are Sheens has always seen Moltzen as a Fullback. Sheens believes Miller has the potential to step up to NRL as was obvious by his few games last year. Sheens has big wraps on James Tedesco. We have bought Chisholm as another potential 7/6.
Well perhaps it will be Tedesco at 1 and Moltzen at 7?

Just for the record I'm absolutely not a card carrying member of the Moltzen at seven brigade - as I have stated before however I reckon its too much of a gamble, and too much pressure on a youngster like Miller being given the seven jersey straight off.

You have to take the safe option I believe and that's picking the guy with the most experience who already has a pretty good combo/understanding with Marshall.

As others have said as well Miller's form late in the season was a bit shakey and that's to be expected given his age - I'm a big fan but think he needs just a few more miles on the clock before being thrown in the deep end.

I also have a good feeling about Chisolm but he's a really unknown quantity at this stage.

Anyway we will know soon enough :)

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Post by Tiger Watto » Sat 07 Jan, 2012 10:05 am

I have no doubt Moltzen will be in the Starting 13... Wayne Bennett took 3 years to move Lockyer. Darren was keen to move in 2002 after Kevin Walters moved on and as a result, Wayne was under pressure from all angles within the Club. Many felt Ben Ikin didnt have a balanced enough game at 5/8 and preferred him as a Centre. Along came Special K!!!

I feel Tedesco is the only reason Sheens will move Moltzen...

C'mon March!!!
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Post by innsaneink » Sat 07 Jan, 2012 10:18 am

I think 1 is settled with Moltzen, its the 7 that will be where the question marks persist= Plan A.
I believe Sheens see's Brown Reddy and even Possibly Tuquiri at fullback if Chisolm Miller or Humble cant crack it at halfback and he goes plan B & puts Moltzen there

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