Moltzen and Groat

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shano
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Re: Moltzen and Groat

Post by shano » Sun 18 Mar, 2012 8:45 am

Moltzen's best position is fullback. You have to give him credit for that considering how well he played in the back-end of last season and how many games we won with him there. As a half-back, he is ordinary to say the least. He merely catches and passes. He doesn't take the line on or even look like he's going to do anything creative. He doesn't even have a basic a kicking game. Any player in the entire club squad can perform that basic role of catch and pass, tackle and feed the ball into the scrum!

We need a quality half back that will take the heat off Benji. At the moment, Benji is doing all the creative stuff and most of the kicking in play. We are too predictable. Semi final bound teams need a quality half and five-eigth to provide options on both sides of the field to keep the opposition guessing. Lui defense wasn't great, but he had a kicking game and often would run to the line and even broke the line many times. Moltzen doesn't even look close to doing anything. He is a passenger in a crucial position which we can't afford if we want to win games.

We currently don't have a quality fullback or half back. Two very key positions. If we put Moltzen back to fullback at least one of those positions is covered. Miller tasted first grade last season and although his defense will not be as strong as Moltzen, he will definitely give far more in attack.

As for GROAT, OMG, he is an interchange player at best. He's slow, has one speed, very poor cardio fitness and is a massive liability in defense. I know he is young and will develop in time, but even then I still struggle to see him more than an interchange player.


mc1991

Post by mc1991 » Sun 18 Mar, 2012 10:05 am

Get Daly CherryEvans at halfback, Moltz to fullback, and sack Tom Humble coz he's s*** compared to moltz at fullback in the 2nd Half of last season..and with Ellis leaving at the end of this year I think we can definitly make a legitimate offer to DCE..


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Post by andrew 474 » Sun 18 Mar, 2012 10:10 am

DCE wont leave manly , moltz will get better the same as last year , he got bagged when he first played fullback , then it clicked for him , same again this year

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Post by GNR4LIFE » Sun 18 Mar, 2012 11:19 am

mc1991 wrote:Get Daly CherryEvans at halfback, Moltz to fullback, and sack Tom Humble coz he's s*** compared to moltz at fullback in the 2nd Half of last season..and with Ellis leaving at the end of this year I think we can definitly make a legitimate offer to DCE..


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That is EXTREMELY debatable

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Post by smeghead » Sun 18 Mar, 2012 11:31 am

So we have to wait 3/4 of a season for our halfback to click?

Oh goodie
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mc1991

Post by mc1991 » Sun 18 Mar, 2012 11:48 am

GNR4LIFE wrote:
mc1991 wrote:Get Daly CherryEvans at halfback, Moltz to fullback, and sack Tom Humble coz he's s*** compared to moltz at fullback in the 2nd Half of last season..and with Ellis leaving at the end of this year I think we can definitly make a legitimate offer to DCE..


Posted using RoarFEED 2012
That is EXTREMELY debatable
please explain..


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chkbehind

Post by chkbehind » Sun 18 Mar, 2012 1:50 pm

Confident Moltzen will come good. Groat so ordinary! Can put Blair in that same class atm

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Post by Citizen Tiger » Sun 18 Mar, 2012 2:11 pm

magpiecol wrote:
citizen cub wrote:I think forumers should not come to expect big things early in the season, we are clearly a team who doesn't peak early and are more prone to peak later in the season. I'm still optimistic, we are premiership favourites for a reason.

As for you people who claim Moltzen isn't a halfback, you should take a good look at yourselves. Up until last week, we had never lost a game with Moltzen at halfback. No coincidence either, the guy has a good passing game, running game and has terrific vision and can defend (unlike Lui), important assets in being a quality half. The role he's playing at the moment does not come naturally to him and I can't understand why Sheen's has instructed him to play this role.

Are you crazy? Have you watched the games? He is the worst halfback in the NRL by a long way. In fact, he is in contention to be the worst player playing first grade.

Get rid of him. If Sheen's does not, then get rid of him as well.

We will never win a comp with Moltzen in the team. I have been saying since I forget when, that he will cost us big time. And boy, has he. Last year's semi against the Warriors and again last night. He was involved in three tries. All by St. George/Illawarra.

He is not alone however. Sheen's insists on playing out of form players, notably, Ayshford, Heinington and Farah.

God help us (and Sheen's) if Benji ever gets badly hurt.

Time for some youth and some speed.

One more thing. Am I mistake or did Sheen's only play three of the four reserves last night? Can't recall Meany getting a run. Good one Tim.
Even by the standards of this forum, that's as a ridiculous a rant as I've seen. You're indignation has nothing to do with fact, it's just another baseless emotional outburst. Forget the fact that halves rely on space and time, courtesy of a dominant pack and decent field position, just conclude that it must be all Moltzen's fault. Saints forwards were outstanding, Harry Potter wouldn't have shone in the 7 jumper against them. Moltzen, notwithstanding injuries, will stay at 7.

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Post by alexaki » Sun 18 Mar, 2012 2:33 pm

Citizen Tiger wrote:
magpiecol wrote:
citizen cub wrote:I think forumers should not come to expect big things early in the season, we are clearly a team who doesn't peak early and are more prone to peak later in the season. I'm still optimistic, we are premiership favourites for a reason.

As for you people who claim Moltzen isn't a halfback, you should take a good look at yourselves. Up until last week, we had never lost a game with Moltzen at halfback. No coincidence either, the guy has a good passing game, running game and has terrific vision and can defend (unlike Lui), important assets in being a quality half. The role he's playing at the moment does not come naturally to him and I can't understand why Sheen's has instructed him to play this role.

Are you crazy? Have you watched the games? He is the worst halfback in the NRL by a long way. In fact, he is in contention to be the worst player playing first grade.

Get rid of him. If Sheen's does not, then get rid of him as well.

Citizen Tiger is spot on!...and BTW I look forward to hearing your calls to the Slats and TK...when you're on the IQ level of the show jumps significantly.

We will never win a comp with Moltzen in the team. I have been saying since I forget when, that he will cost us big time. And boy, has he. Last year's semi against the Warriors and again last night. He was involved in three tries. All by St. George/Illawarra.

He is not alone however. Sheen's insists on playing out of form players, notably, Ayshford, Heinington and Farah.

God help us (and Sheen's) if Benji ever gets badly hurt.

Time for some youth and some speed.

One more thing. Am I mistake or did Sheen's only play three of the four reserves last night? Can't recall Meany getting a run. Good one Tim.
Even by the standards of this forum, that's as a ridiculous a rant as I've seen. You're indignation has nothing to do with fact, it's just another baseless emotional outburst. Forget the fact that halves rely on space and time, courtesy of a dominant pack and decent field position, just conclude that it must be all Moltzen's fault. Saints forwards were outstanding, Harry Potter wouldn't have shone in the 7 jumper against them. Moltzen, notwithstanding injuries, will stay at 7.

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Post by GNR4LIFE » Sun 18 Mar, 2012 2:53 pm

mc1991 wrote:
GNR4LIFE wrote:
mc1991 wrote:Get Daly CherryEvans at halfback, Moltz to fullback, and sack Tom Humble coz he's s*** compared to moltz at fullback in the 2nd Half of last season..and with Ellis leaving at the end of this year I think we can definitly make a legitimate offer to DCE..


Posted using RoarFEED 2012
That is EXTREMELY debatable
please explain..


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To say that anyone is s*** compared to Moltzen is like i said, EXTREMELY debatable. And the fact your only basing that off seeing Humble play 2 or 3 times, it doesn't say a lot

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Post by dermo » Sun 18 Mar, 2012 2:57 pm

Citizen Tiger wrote:
magpiecol wrote:
citizen cub wrote:I think forumers should not come to expect big things early in the season, we are clearly a team who doesn't peak early and are more prone to peak later in the season. I'm still optimistic, we are premiership favourites for a reason.

As for you people who claim Moltzen isn't a halfback, you should take a good look at yourselves. Up until last week, we had never lost a game with Moltzen at halfback. No coincidence either, the guy has a good passing game, running game and has terrific vision and can defend (unlike Lui), important assets in being a quality half. The role he's playing at the moment does not come naturally to him and I can't understand why Sheen's has instructed him to play this role.

Are you crazy? Have you watched the games? He is the worst halfback in the NRL by a long way. In fact, he is in contention to be the worst player playing first grade.

Get rid of him. If Sheen's does not, then get rid of him as well.

We will never win a comp with Moltzen in the team. I have been saying since I forget when, that he will cost us big time. And boy, has he. Last year's semi against the Warriors and again last night. He was involved in three tries. All by St. George/Illawarra.

He is not alone however. Sheen's insists on playing out of form players, notably, Ayshford, Heinington and Farah.

God help us (and Sheen's) if Benji ever gets badly hurt.

Time for some youth and some speed.

One more thing. Am I mistake or did Sheen's only play three of the four reserves last night? Can't recall Meany getting a run. Good one Tim.
Even by the standards of this forum, that's as a ridiculous a rant as I've seen. You're indignation has nothing to do with fact, it's just another baseless emotional outburst. Forget the fact that halves rely on space and time, courtesy of a dominant pack and decent field position, just conclude that it must be all Moltzen's fault. Saints forwards were outstanding, Harry Potter wouldn't have shone in the 7 jumper against them. Moltzen, notwithstanding injuries, will stay at 7.
Finally someone talking some sense

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Post by hybrid_tiger » Sun 18 Mar, 2012 4:56 pm

Citizen Tiger wrote:
magpiecol wrote:
citizen cub wrote:I think forumers should not come to expect big things early in the season, we are clearly a team who doesn't peak early and are more prone to peak later in the season. I'm still optimistic, we are premiership favourites for a reason.

As for you people who claim Moltzen isn't a halfback, you should take a good look at yourselves. Up until last week, we had never lost a game with Moltzen at halfback. No coincidence either, the guy has a good passing game, running game and has terrific vision and can defend (unlike Lui), important assets in being a quality half. The role he's playing at the moment does not come naturally to him and I can't understand why Sheen's has instructed him to play this role.

Are you crazy? Have you watched the games? He is the worst halfback in the NRL by a long way. In fact, he is in contention to be the worst player playing first grade.

Get rid of him. If Sheen's does not, then get rid of him as well.

We will never win a comp with Moltzen in the team. I have been saying since I forget when, that he will cost us big time. And boy, has he. Last year's semi against the Warriors and again last night. He was involved in three tries. All by St. George/Illawarra.

He is not alone however. Sheen's insists on playing out of form players, notably, Ayshford, Heinington and Farah.

God help us (and Sheen's) if Benji ever gets badly hurt.

Time for some youth and some speed.

One more thing. Am I mistake or did Sheen's only play three of the four reserves last night? Can't recall Meany getting a run. Good one Tim.
Even by the standards of this forum, that's as a ridiculous a rant as I've seen. You're indignation has nothing to do with fact, it's just another baseless emotional outburst. Forget the fact that halves rely on space and time, courtesy of a dominant pack and decent field position, just conclude that it must be all Moltzen's fault. Saints forwards were outstanding, Harry Potter wouldn't have shone in the 7 jumper against them. Moltzen, notwithstanding injuries, will stay at 7.
You are correct in saying that no halfback could really shine behind a well beaten pack, which we were on Friday.

The issue with Moltzen is not his performance, it is his involvement.

Five runs and one kick in 80 minutes is not good enough from a halfback, playing behind a beaten pack or not.

Farah tried his guts out but did not play overly well and Benji did the same but was concussed and made some errors. The difference is that both Robbie and Benji died trying whereas Moltzen simply disappeared and watched from the background. That is the issue.

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Post by russelldp » Sun 18 Mar, 2012 5:44 pm

I agree with the remarks about Moltzen's involvement being an issue.

A half back must be proactive and make it happen using the skills they have- some can control a game (Thurston, Cronk), others provide a good link (Josh Mccrone), whilst some inspire their team mates with bursts of brilliance (Sandow).

Unfortunately, Moltzen's game at number 7 is serving no purpose except filling the jumper. Add to this a damaging error rate, including a knock on at the scrum base and another at dummy half and you have a serious issue.

I defended him last year as he was returning from injury, but there are no excuses now.

Groat is a different story- he is trying his best, but his leg speed and stamina are issues he needs to overcome before he is a regular first grader.




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Post by innsaneink » Sun 18 Mar, 2012 9:02 pm

Groat finds himself in this position, ahead of his development and capabilities due to injuries to others and our poor recruitment

Moltzen, I cannot believe he is not under instructions to take a back seat to Benji & Farah, if he isnt then he needs a boot of Patty Richards proportions up the backside, quicksmart!

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Post by Goose » Sun 18 Mar, 2012 9:44 pm

GNR4LIFE wrote:
mc1991 wrote:
GNR4LIFE wrote:
mc1991 wrote:Get Daly CherryEvans at halfback, Moltz to fullback, and sack Tom Humble coz he's s*** compared to moltz at fullback in the 2nd Half of last season..and with Ellis leaving at the end of this year I think we can definitly make a legitimate offer to DCE..


Posted using RoarFEED 2012
That is EXTREMELY debatable
please explain..


Posted using RoarFEED 2012
To say that anyone is s*** compared to Moltzen is like i said, EXTREMELY debatable. And the fact your only basing that off seeing Humble play 2 or 3 times, it doesn't say a lot
your anti molzen bias is ridiculous.

If you think it was his fault we lost last night you are simply delusional.

Our forwards got pumped, that is why we lost.

If Lui had played exactly the same game moltz played, quiet, without doing much, you'd be claiming he was solid behind a beaten pack.

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Post by Citizen Tiger » Sun 18 Mar, 2012 10:18 pm

hybrid_tiger wrote:
Citizen Tiger wrote:
magpiecol wrote:
citizen cub wrote:I think forumers should not come to expect big things early in the season, we are clearly a team who doesn't peak early and are more prone to peak later in the season. I'm still optimistic, we are premiership favourites for a reason.

As for you people who claim Moltzen isn't a halfback, you should take a good look at yourselves. Up until last week, we had never lost a game with Moltzen at halfback. No coincidence either, the guy has a good passing game, running game and has terrific vision and can defend (unlike Lui), important assets in being a quality half. The role he's playing at the moment does not come naturally to him and I can't understand why Sheen's has instructed him to play this role.

Are you crazy? Have you watched the games? He is the worst halfback in the NRL by a long way. In fact, he is in contention to be the worst player playing first grade.

Get rid of him. If Sheen's does not, then get rid of him as well.

We will never win a comp with Moltzen in the team. I have been saying since I forget when, that he will cost us big time. And boy, has he. Last year's semi against the Warriors and again last night. He was involved in three tries. All by St. George/Illawarra.

He is not alone however. Sheen's insists on playing out of form players, notably, Ayshford, Heinington and Farah.

God help us (and Sheen's) if Benji ever gets badly hurt.

Time for some youth and some speed.

One more thing. Am I mistake or did Sheen's only play three of the four reserves last night? Can't recall Meany getting a run. Good one Tim.
Even by the standards of this forum, that's as a ridiculous a rant as I've seen. You're indignation has nothing to do with fact, it's just another baseless emotional outburst. Forget the fact that halves rely on space and time, courtesy of a dominant pack and decent field position, just conclude that it must be all Moltzen's fault. Saints forwards were outstanding, Harry Potter wouldn't have shone in the 7 jumper against them. Moltzen, notwithstanding injuries, will stay at 7.
You are correct in saying that no halfback could really shine behind a well beaten pack, which we were on Friday.

The issue with Moltzen is not his performance, it is his involvement.

Five runs and one kick in 80 minutes is not good enough from a halfback, playing behind a beaten pack or not.

Farah tried his guts out but did not play overly well and Benji did the same but was concussed and made some errors. The difference is that both Robbie and Benji died trying whereas Moltzen simply disappeared and watched from the background. That is the issue.
I'll accept that, but the likliehood is, as mentioned in this thread, he's probs playing under instructions. The stats don't look good, but I think we know he's a very talented player and capable of much better. I think the kid deserves support, he's had to tolerate a relentless campaign by the Murdoch Press fo months, culminating in their disgusting editorials prior to this weeks match. Even the BSB beat it up during the week and TK took time to repeat his criticism of Moltzen's contract negotiations, over and over and over. Moltzen is a kid, to believe that bulls... didn't get to him is naive. Know anyone that's come back from a full knee reco? Takes a lot longer than one season I can tell you.People in here set the bar at an absurd height, much higher than they'd demand of themselves in their own endeavours.

Thanks for responding with something credible, it's a rarity in this thread

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Post by happy tiger » Sun 18 Mar, 2012 10:35 pm

smeghead wrote:So we have to wait 3/4 of a season for our halfback to click?

Oh goodie
No different from last season with our fullback All good things come to those who wait Smeg :roll:

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Post by GNR4LIFE » Sun 18 Mar, 2012 11:01 pm

Goose, I can gaurentee Lui would have been more involved. I haven't said anywhere that i thought the loss was Moltzen's fault. Our forwards were pumped, but even that shouldn't affect Moltzen at least getting his hands on the ball.

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