Same sex marriage debate...

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cochise
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Re: Same sex marriage debate...

Unread post by cochise » Tue 05 Dec, 2017 2:59 pm

TigerTiger wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 1:48 pm
Abraham wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 1:06 pm


The funny (or sad) thing is that you don't see the hypocrisy of your own words.

According to your warped wisdom, its not ok for a Christian to 'discriminate' and not participate in a gay ceremony, but its ok for a Christian to be discriminated against and be forced to participate in an event which they consider sacrilegious.

That's what happens when a society does not value an individual's God-given freedom ... the Government takes upon itself the position of God and determines according to its own whims which class of people's freedoms are politically expedient to defend, at the expense of those it wishes to discriminate against itself.

The common sense outcome is to let the individual judge for themselves what they do and don't want to be involved in... but common sense ain't that common these days.

You may not care in this instance, but when they come after something you hold dear under false pretenses, it will already be too late for you to start whinging.
Abraham, please correct me if I'm wrong, (for it was a long time ago,) but I'm fairly certain I remember from my catholic primary school days that God's doctrines was also to follow the rules and laws of the government of the day.
I can't give a biblical reference, but I'm sure the bible is where the teachers got it from. You are a fellow who might know, isn't there that in there somewhere?
yes the bible states “Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities.” Meaning that everyone is to follow the laws of the land even the ones they do not agree with because "For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God" which basically means that anyone who has been given authority has been given that authority by god.


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Unread post by Abraham » Tue 05 Dec, 2017 4:56 pm

TigerTiger wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 1:48 pm
Abraham, please correct me if I'm wrong, (for it was a long time ago,) but I'm fairly certain I remember from my catholic primary school days that God's doctrines was also to follow the rules and laws of the government of the day.
I can't give a biblical reference, but I'm sure the bible is where the teachers got it from. You are a fellow who might know, isn't there that in there somewhere?
No its not the case.

For example, abortion is legal, yet the Church will never support the murder of babies. Fornification is legal, yet the Church will never support people sleeping around. There are many many similar examples.

Secular laws change all the time based on who is running the country, but the Church's Doctrines never change in response.

Just be careful to understand that there are different types of Church laws. There is 'Doctrine' which is set in stone and can never change (for example the teachings of Jesus Christ), and then there are traditions or disciplines which are able to be changed in response to circumstances (for example fasting on certain days, or allowing priests to marry). These are not Biblical Law, and so can be changed if necessary for different reasons.

Hope that clears it up for you.

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Unread post by cochise » Tue 05 Dec, 2017 5:36 pm

Abraham wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 4:56 pm
TigerTiger wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 1:48 pm
Abraham, please correct me if I'm wrong, (for it was a long time ago,) but I'm fairly certain I remember from my catholic primary school days that God's doctrines was also to follow the rules and laws of the government of the day.
I can't give a biblical reference, but I'm sure the bible is where the teachers got it from. You are a fellow who might know, isn't there that in there somewhere?
No its not the case.

For example, abortion is legal, yet the Church will never support the murder of babies. Fornification is legal, yet the Church will never support people sleeping around. There are many many similar examples.

Secular laws change all the time based on who is running the country, but the Church's Doctrines never change in response.

Just be careful to understand that there are different types of Church laws. There is 'Doctrine' which is set in stone and can never change (for example the teachings of Jesus Christ), and then there are traditions or disciplines which are able to be changed in response to circumstances (for example fasting on certain days, or allowing priests to marry). These are not Biblical Law, and so can be changed if necessary for different reasons.

Hope that clears it up for you.
That is actually wrong

Romans 13:1-7 states, “Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.”

Now when the law of the lands differ to Gods doctrine there is a leeway to not follow the laws of men but in that situation one should still acknowledge the governments right to rule over them and not only accept the consequence for breaking the law but rejoice in the consequence.

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Unread post by Munk » Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:00 pm

Look at the discrimination Milo Yiannopolous is copping in Australia.
Tolerant society? Everyone is entitled to an opinion? I think not.

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Unread post by Nelson » Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:18 pm

Munk wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:00 pm
Look at the discrimination Milo Yiannopolous is copping in Australia.
Tolerant society? Everyone is entitled to an opinion? I think not.
Yeah well people are entitled to the opinion he's an antagonistic knob. He does go out of his way to cultivate that opinion of himself in others after all...


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Unread post by GNR4LIFE » Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:23 pm

He reminds me of Mundine. Runs his mouth purely to get a reaction out of people. And because people are idiots, they give him what he wants.

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Unread post by goldcoast tiger » Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:39 pm

Abraham wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 1:06 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 10:26 am
TrueTiger wrote:
Sun 03 Dec, 2017 8:36 pm
You guys are saying you cant discriminate,our country doesnt tolerate discrimination at any level regardless of same sex,female,disabled,different culture or country
How about my parents who came here after WW2 and helped build the railway,snowy scheme and other industries..we were called wogs,diegoes and spics I had my lunch taken out of my bag and cow s*** put in it because I had a wog name ,yet I was born here...go figure...please don't go down that road it is something that has been in our society since day dot...someone always thinks they are better than others,yet the truth is we are all the same ...HUMAN BEINGS...
Until everybody accepts that,then this crap will go on and on and on...
You and your Parents should, ( and could already) be really against discrimination against any other group of people, as they know how it feels.
Religion is one of the flimsiest excuses for discrimination that is possible, as almost anything can be claimed to be against ones religion.

If you got a Christian( whatever brand you want), A Muslim ,(again , whatever brand you want), a Hindu whatever brand again or a Happy Clapper from our own home grown brand s of Hillsong,
you know the type, with the 60 year old ringleader who tries to look like a 25 year old with spiked hair and the shirt carefully left hanging out, trying to appeal to the young audience that usually gets attracted to the rock music, and the plethora of sportsmen that seem to drift in and out of that type of religion.

Get that lot together and the pile of things that would be against their combined religions would be enormous.

But its strange that almost all of the things that are said to be so sacred, can be immediately thrown out if it pleases the current Pope;Pastor, or Imam:

The Catholics dropped the “ can’t eat fish on Friday, “ bit like a hot chip ,when the Pope had a change of mind, and what would send you running off to Confession one week, became a nice feed of fish & chips the next Friday night.
The ban on contraception is , in a lot of countries, responsible for some of the worst over populating that exists, but in more enlightened countries nowCatholics now know the value of latex and those little pills, and none of them are any more likely to burn in hell than any Catholics that have gone before then
The Muslims keep telling us that theirs is a peaceful religion, but some of their Brands seems to think it’s Cool to try to kill anyone who doesn’t agree with them

This garbage about Bakers and Florists is just that. Trivial rubbish

And yes discrimination does still exist in Australia; but we all should be trying to get rid of any that we still have, rather than making laws to increase it.
Especially when it’s over such a flimsy , ludicrous reason such as a few bakers and florists getting their knickers twisted because they dont conform to some religions version of what should happen.
Jeez , I hope nothing really important happens to Australia , as the bakers and Florists won’t be able to be relied on to be much help ,as they have such an important problem in front of themselves consuming their lives. Lol
The funny (or sad) thing is that you don't see the hypocrisy of your own words.

According to your warped wisdom, its not ok for a Christian to 'discriminate' and not participate in a gay ceremony, but its ok for a Christian to be discriminated against and be forced to participate in an event which they consider sacrilegious.

That's what happens when a society does not value an individual's God-given freedom ... the Government takes upon itself the position of God and determines according to its own whims which class of people's freedoms are politically expedient to defend, at the expense of those it wishes to discriminate against itself.

The common sense outcome is to let the individual judge for themselves what they do and don't want to be involved in... but common sense ain't that common these days.

You may not care in this instance, but when they come after something you hold dear under false pretenses, it will already be too late for you to start whinging.

Sorry but there’s no hypocrisy at all:
Bakers and Florists can think what they like about gay people getting married.just as Someone who doesnt want to associate with coloured people doesn’t have to go to their place for lunch, they just cannot actively discriminate against them.

People will still think whatever they want to think,
These people who want all these discriminating laws added,will probably never have to officiate at a gay wedding, or make a cake for them Anyway .
For one thing who would really want someone there who dosnt want their marriage to happen.
And there’s be plenty of more enlightened Bakers who would be willing to take the
Extra customers that the religious few will let go.

The people complaining now will probably never stop complaining , but there’s another way of looking at it .
A lot of Gay people are Fireman, Police, medical workers, surgeons Ambos,ect.
How would one of these over zealous Christians, Muslims, or any other ones feel, if they are lying in a crashed car, and one of these same rescue “Gays” decided that he didn’t want to help them and possibly save their life, because they discriminated against gay people,

That’s the thing, they would never do that , they’d go ahead and do their job and not give a thought about what sort of person the victim is.
Its a pity that the Bakers and Florists don’t just Stop and think about some of the real problems in the world, and accept that a vote was taken and lost.
I think that it’s safe to say that no one will end up in Hell because he or she cooked a Lamington for a gay wedding, in fact I think that we could gaurantee that.
Last edited by goldcoast tiger on Tue 05 Dec, 2017 9:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Unread post by Munk » Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:45 pm

Nelson wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:18 pm
Munk wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:00 pm
Look at the discrimination Milo Yiannopolous is copping in Australia.
Tolerant society? Everyone is entitled to an opinion? I think not.
Yeah well people are entitled to the opinion he's an antagonistic knob. He does go out of his way to cultivate that opinion of himself in others after all...
Yes he is provocative. Thats no excuse for media outlets labelling him racist etc. As for the "doo gooders" fighting cops in the street because a man is saying bad words inside a venue, they are far worse.

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Unread post by Nelson » Tue 05 Dec, 2017 10:02 pm

Munk wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:45 pm
Nelson wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:18 pm
Munk wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:00 pm
Look at the discrimination Milo Yiannopolous is copping in Australia.
Tolerant society? Everyone is entitled to an opinion? I think not.
Yeah well people are entitled to the opinion he's an antagonistic knob. He does go out of his way to cultivate that opinion of himself in others after all...
Yes he is provocative. Thats no excuse for media outlets labelling him racist etc. As for the "doo gooders" fighting cops in the street because a man is saying bad words inside a venue, they are far worse.
He probably is racist but I'm hardly going to waste my time looking up the views of an attention-seeking drongo like him to find out one way or the other.

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Unread post by Munk » Tue 05 Dec, 2017 10:35 pm

Nelson wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 10:02 pm
Munk wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:45 pm
Nelson wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:18 pm
Munk wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:00 pm
Look at the discrimination Milo Yiannopolous is copping in Australia.
Tolerant society? Everyone is entitled to an opinion? I think not.
Yeah well people are entitled to the opinion he's an antagonistic knob. He does go out of his way to cultivate that opinion of himself in others after all...
Yes he is provocative. Thats no excuse for media outlets labelling him racist etc. As for the "doo gooders" fighting cops in the street because a man is saying bad words inside a venue, they are far worse.
He probably is racist but I'm hardly going to waste my time looking up the views of an attention-seeking drongo like him to find out one way or the other.
Ill save you the time. He is married to a black man. He aint racist but well done for helping prove my point. Uninformed hate spewers are the real drongos. :roll:

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Unread post by Nelson » Tue 05 Dec, 2017 11:27 pm

Munk wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 10:35 pm
Nelson wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 10:02 pm
Munk wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:45 pm
Nelson wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:18 pm


Yeah well people are entitled to the opinion he's an antagonistic knob. He does go out of his way to cultivate that opinion of himself in others after all...
Yes he is provocative. Thats no excuse for media outlets labelling him racist etc. As for the "doo gooders" fighting cops in the street because a man is saying bad words inside a venue, they are far worse.
He probably is racist but I'm hardly going to waste my time looking up the views of an attention-seeking drongo like him to find out one way or the other.
Ill save you the time. He is married to a black man. He aint racist but well done for helping prove my point. Uninformed hate spewers are the real drongos. :roll:
Oh I'm sorry I didn't realise the only way to discriminate by race was against black men and that if you married one you were automatically not a racist. So many rules in the world these days...

I didn't prove any point for you. I didn't say he was racist, I said he probably was. I said that because he seems extremely arrogant and vitriolic towards people who are different to him (like women). He's predisposed to see himself as different to and better than others and to hate. So he probably is racist despite what he says, which probably bears little resemblance to what he actually thinks because it's all calculated to generate attention anyway.

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Unread post by formerguest » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 2:00 am

The guy is an idiot and the senator that sponsored his appearance at Parliament House is treating us as fools.

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Unread post by Abraham » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 6:35 am

cochise wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 5:36 pm
Abraham wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 4:56 pm
TigerTiger wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 1:48 pm
Abraham, please correct me if I'm wrong, (for it was a long time ago,) but I'm fairly certain I remember from my catholic primary school days that God's doctrines was also to follow the rules and laws of the government of the day.
I can't give a biblical reference, but I'm sure the bible is where the teachers got it from. You are a fellow who might know, isn't there that in there somewhere?
No its not the case.

For example, abortion is legal, yet the Church will never support the murder of babies. Fornification is legal, yet the Church will never support people sleeping around. There are many many similar examples.

Secular laws change all the time based on who is running the country, but the Church's Doctrines never change in response.

Just be careful to understand that there are different types of Church laws. There is 'Doctrine' which is set in stone and can never change (for example the teachings of Jesus Christ), and then there are traditions or disciplines which are able to be changed in response to circumstances (for example fasting on certain days, or allowing priests to marry). These are not Biblical Law, and so can be changed if necessary for different reasons.

Hope that clears it up for you.
That is actually wrong

Romans 13:1-7 states, “Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.”

Now when the law of the lands differ to Gods doctrine there is a leeway to not follow the laws of men but in that situation one should still acknowledge the governments right to rule over them and not only accept the consequence for breaking the law but rejoice in the consequence.
The passage from Romans is a little different than what i am talking about.

Obeying a law, and actively engaging in sin at the behest of secular authorities, are two different things.

When the law of the land contradicts God's law, Christians can and are expected not to participate in actions that are deemed sinful. Yes we are fully expected to obey the law, but are never expected to engage in evil acts just because they may be legal.

Bringing this this back to the topic. Christians would not be allowed to disrupt gay weddings just because they disagree with the premise. That would be un-Christian. But by the same token, are not in any way compelled to participate just because they are legal.

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Unread post by Abraham » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 6:57 am

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:39 pm

Sorry but there’s no hypocrisy at all:
Bakers and Florists can think what they like about gay people getting married.just as Someone who doesnt want to associate with coloured people doesn’t have to go to their place for lunch, they just cannot actively discriminate against them.

People will still think whatever they want to think,
These people who want all these discriminating laws added,will probably never have to officiate at a gay wedding, or make a cake for them Anyway .
For one thing who would really want someone there who dosnt want their marriage to happen.
And there’s be plenty of more enlightened Bakers who would be willing to take the
Extra customers that the religious few will let go.

The people complaining now will probably never stop complaining , but there’s another way of looking at it .
A lot of Gay people are Fireman, Police, medical workers, surgeons Ambos,ect.
How would one of these over zealous Christians, Muslims, or any other ones feel, if they are lying in a crashed car, and one of these same rescue “Gays” decided that he didn’t want to help them and possibly save their life, because they discriminated against gay people,

That’s the thing, they would never do that , they’d go ahead and do their job and not give a thought about what sort of person the victim is.
Its a pity that the Bakers and Florists don’t just Stop and think about some of the real problems in the world, and accept that a vote was taken and lost.
I think that it’s safe to say that no one will end up in Hell because he or she cooked a Lamington for a gay wedding, in fact I think that we could gaurantee that.
Sorry to say, but this post just demonstrates that you are coming at this from a place of total ignorance. I'd say you don't know many Christians, and if you do, you haven't taken time to understand their perspective before commenting on what you 'think' their perspective is.

Just quickly, to point out the obvious flaws in your post:

For one thing who would really want someone there who dosnt want their marriage to happen.

Gay activists, that's who. A massive number of these cases in Europe and the US have been brought about by gay couples who actively sought out Christian businesses, knowing they would not participate, just so they could take legal action against them. This is exactly what will happen here shortly, without any doubt whatsoever.


A lot of Gay people are Fireman, Police, medical workers, surgeons Ambos,ect.
How would one of these over zealous Christians, Muslims, or any other ones feel, if they are lying in a crashed car, and one of these same rescue “Gays” decided that he didn’t want to help them and possibly save their life, because they discriminated against gay people,


Christians have no problem with gay people. Period.

The only issue of concern is to do with Homosexual sex, which the Church looks at in the same way as Heterosexual sex outside of Marriage. Because it is not performed between husband and wife with the intent to create new life, we consider it to be a deviation from the true purpose of sexual intercourse. Thats it.

Someone being attracted to people of the same sex in not considered to be sinful at all. We believe that gay people are created in the image of God, and that God doesn't make mistakes. So where your fireman analogy comes from .... ??? Wow.

I think that it’s safe to say that no one will end up in Hell because he or she cooked a Lamington for a gay wedding, in fact I think that we could gaurantee that.

Completely and utterly besides the point. Forget about gay weddings and florists, its a simple matter of freedom.

You are somebody that believes your freedom comes from Malcolm Turnbull. You believe that people should be 'forced', under threat of law, to participate involuntarily in transactions that violate their free-will.

When you give a government that type of power over your life, the day will come when you will be at the other end of the stick, and it will be your freedoms that are attacked because someone in a position of power deems that their interests are greater than yours. When you leave it to public servants to determine who its ok to discriminate against, and who its not ok to discriminate against, based on their personal opinions and biases, you are in very dangerous territory. And that's what you are not able, or willing, to understand.

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Unread post by cochise » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:29 am

Abraham wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 6:35 am
cochise wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 5:36 pm
Abraham wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 4:56 pm
TigerTiger wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 1:48 pm
Abraham, please correct me if I'm wrong, (for it was a long time ago,) but I'm fairly certain I remember from my catholic primary school days that God's doctrines was also to follow the rules and laws of the government of the day.
I can't give a biblical reference, but I'm sure the bible is where the teachers got it from. You are a fellow who might know, isn't there that in there somewhere?
No its not the case.

For example, abortion is legal, yet the Church will never support the murder of babies. Fornification is legal, yet the Church will never support people sleeping around. There are many many similar examples.

Secular laws change all the time based on who is running the country, but the Church's Doctrines never change in response.

Just be careful to understand that there are different types of Church laws. There is 'Doctrine' which is set in stone and can never change (for example the teachings of Jesus Christ), and then there are traditions or disciplines which are able to be changed in response to circumstances (for example fasting on certain days, or allowing priests to marry). These are not Biblical Law, and so can be changed if necessary for different reasons.

Hope that clears it up for you.
That is actually wrong

Romans 13:1-7 states, “Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.”

Now when the law of the lands differ to Gods doctrine there is a leeway to not follow the laws of men but in that situation one should still acknowledge the governments right to rule over them and not only accept the consequence for breaking the law but rejoice in the consequence.
The passage from Romans is a little different than what i am talking about.

Obeying a law, and actively engaging in sin at the behest of secular authorities, are two different things.

When the law of the land contradicts God's law, Christians can and are expected not to participate in actions that are deemed sinful. Yes we are fully expected to obey the law, but are never expected to engage in evil acts just because they may be legal.

Bringing this this back to the topic. Christians would not be allowed to disrupt gay weddings just because they disagree with the premise. That would be un-Christian. But by the same token, are not in any way compelled to participate just because they are legal.
There is no get out of jail free clause in the bible for not following and respecting the rule of government, the bible states that the government was created by god and is acting on his behalf. That passage was written under the rule of the Roman emperor Nero, a man who set fire to rome and blamed on the Christian and still Paul wrote that the governments rule, Nero's rule was to be respected and followed.
You can argue that Christians are not compelled to participate in action because they are legal but they are compelled to not discriminate if that action is illegal and they are compelled to accept and rejoice in the consequence for breaking the law when they refuse to participate. Just like when John and Peter were flogged for disobeying an order not to teach in gods name. They didn't rebel, they accepted their punishment and in fact rejoiced in as they were suffering due to their obeying God. So if they law passes people who refuse to marry gay people due to religious beliefs will just have to accept their consequences because that is what the bible teaches us?
Last edited by cochise on Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Unread post by Cultured Bogan » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:33 am

Munk wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:45 pm
Nelson wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:18 pm
Munk wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:00 pm
Look at the discrimination Milo Yiannopolous is copping in Australia.
Tolerant society? Everyone is entitled to an opinion? I think not.
Yeah well people are entitled to the opinion he's an antagonistic knob. He does go out of his way to cultivate that opinion of himself in others after all...
Yes he is provocative. Thats no excuse for media outlets labelling him racist etc. As for the "doo gooders" fighting cops in the street because a man is saying bad words inside a venue, they are far worse.
That's his schtick. He's popular because he makes those comments and expects people to pay attention to him. He's a professional troll, and he's making money off the back of it. You've got to wonder who really is the idiot there?

And I agree, protesters fighting police because the guy says some stuff they could easily ignore is beyond idiocy. These clowns don't understand if they don't openly get offended at everything he says, he disappears overnight.
I swing like hell but know full well that I won't win the fight, but big man I'm the beta male that's gonna ruin your night...

Fuerza en la adversidad.

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Unread post by Abraham » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:11 am

cochise wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:29 am

There is no get out of jail free clause in the bible for not following and respecting the rule of government, the bible states that the government was created by god and is acting on his behalf. That passage was written under the rule of the Roman emperor Nero, a man who set fire to rome and blamed on the Christian and still Paul wrote that the governments rule, Nero's rule was to be respected and followed.
You can argue that Christians are not compelled to participate in action because they are legal but they are compelled to not discriminate if that action is illegal and they are compelled to accept and rejoice in the consequence for breaking the law when they refuse to participate. Just like when John and Peter were flogged for disobeying an order not to teach in gods name. They didn't rebel, they accepted their punishment and in fact rejoiced in as they were suffering due to their obeying God. So if they law passes people who refuse to marry gay people due to religious beliefs will just have to accept their consequences because that is what the bible teaches us?
I got lost mid-way through your post, so not sure exactly what your saying at the start of the second paragraph? People are compelled to obey the law, and then rejoice for breaking it??

Just make sure you're clear on the distinction that Secular Law does not override Biblical Law. Obeying the secular law is one thing, but participating in action that is sinful is a different matter entirely. It's pretty simple ... If the law commands you to sin (like exterminating Jews in Nazi Germany, as was the law of the land), then you don't sin. I don't think its complicated at all.

Abraham
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Unread post by Abraham » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:27 am

cochise wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:29 am

There is no get out of jail free clause in the bible for not following and respecting the rule of government, the bible states that the government was created by god and is acting on his behalf. That passage was written under the rule of the Roman emperor Nero, a man who set fire to rome and blamed on the Christian and still Paul wrote that the governments rule, Nero's rule was to be respected and followed.
You can argue that Christians are not compelled to participate in action because they are legal but they are compelled to not discriminate if that action is illegal and they are compelled to accept and rejoice in the consequence for breaking the law when they refuse to participate. Just like when John and Peter were flogged for disobeying an order not to teach in gods name. They didn't rebel, they accepted their punishment and in fact rejoiced in as they were suffering due to their obeying God. So if they law passes people who refuse to marry gay people due to religious beliefs will just have to accept their consequences because that is what the bible teaches us?

I found the website you got this from: https://www.gotquestions.org/laws-land.html

It says what i said: it is clear that as long as the law of the land does not contradict the law of God, we are bound to obey the law of the land. As soon as the law of the land contradicts God's command, we are to disobey the law of the land and obey God's law.

Like i said, not complicated at all.

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