America - Gun Control

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Abraham
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Re: America - Gun Control

Unread post by Abraham » Fri 10 Nov, 2017 12:26 pm

He has only been in power for a year, its far too early to judge his presidency.

By comparison, Obama passed less legislation in his two terms than either Carter or Bush did in their Single terms, and governed almost exclusively by executive order.

Trump probably needs to get himself a senate majority leader who will do a better job than McConnell at wrangling the cats, because if they loose their majority in the mid-terms, Trump will get literally zero done thereafter.


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Unread post by colmcd » Fri 10 Nov, 2017 12:49 pm

Abraham wrote:
Fri 10 Nov, 2017 12:26 pm
He has only been in power for a year, its far too early to judge his presidency.

By comparison, Obama passed less legislation in his two terms than either Carter or Bush did in their Single terms, and governed almost exclusively by executive order.

Trump probably needs to get himself a senate majority leader who will do a better job than McConnell at wrangling the cats, because if they loose their majority in the mid-terms, Trump will get literally zero done thereafter.
Do I have to weigh in and correct this? Yes I think I do...*sigh*
>> "[trump vs]Obama passed less legislation in his two terms than either Carter or Bush did in their Single terms"
Read your Aristotle. Passing laws is not a good or bad measure of good government. I thought you were a Libertarian who was tired of Gov tyranny? Now a government should pass a reasonable amount of laws, if it is passing lots and lots of laws quickly and in a rushed manner that can lead to people breaking them easier and consequences not being accounted for.


Now America is politically DUMB! It is often Gridlocked with Democrats and Republicans refusing to make sane compromises... DON'T look at American Failure!

"governed almost exclusively by executive order. " Turn off fox news, breitbart or whatever source told you that, it's lying too you. Liars are not worth their time. Look at the link below:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... ive_orders
We see Obama using executive orders a lot less then most of his predecessors of the 19th century.
Whatever source told you that Obama made more executive orders is not wrong but worse. They are purposely deceiving you to believe their FUD.

"Trump probably needs to get himself a senate majority leader who will do a better job than McConnell" " if they loose their majority in the mid-terms, Trump will get literally zero done thereafter."
Totally agreed.

I think that the Republicans want trump to fail with a mid term wipeout and accomplish nothing so that they can put pence in. I think it is a deliberate reverse abbott/Turnbull strategy.

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Unread post by MG1962 » Fri 10 Nov, 2017 12:53 pm

Munk wrote:
Fri 10 Nov, 2017 12:18 pm
Here is a list. A lot are low level but it shows that those claiming he has got none through are not being truthful.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.bus ... ama-2017-8
LOL - you reall dont understand how the US government works do you. The second bill on that list (H.R. 72) has nothing to do with Trump. It was sponsored by Earl Carter. And was introduced a month before Trump became president :lol:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-con ... 72/actions

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Unread post by Munk » Fri 10 Nov, 2017 12:58 pm

MG1962 wrote:
Fri 10 Nov, 2017 12:53 pm
Munk wrote:
Fri 10 Nov, 2017 12:18 pm
Here is a list. A lot are low level but it shows that those claiming he has got none through are not being truthful.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.bus ... ama-2017-8
LOL - you reall dont understand how the US government works do you. The second bill on that list (H.R. 72) has nothing to do with Trump. It was sponsored by Earl Carter. And was introduced a month before Trump became president :lol:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-con ... 72/actions
Did i design the list you silly old bugger? Im just proving you guys are lying. There are dozens of examples in that article.

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Unread post by Abraham » Fri 10 Nov, 2017 1:00 pm

colmcd wrote:
Fri 10 Nov, 2017 12:49 pm
Abraham wrote:
Fri 10 Nov, 2017 12:26 pm
He has only been in power for a year, its far too early to judge his presidency.

By comparison, Obama passed less legislation in his two terms than either Carter or Bush did in their Single terms, and governed almost exclusively by executive order.

Trump probably needs to get himself a senate majority leader who will do a better job than McConnell at wrangling the cats, because if they loose their majority in the mid-terms, Trump will get literally zero done thereafter.
Do I have to weigh in and correct this? Yes I think I do...*sigh*
>> "[trump vs]Obama passed less legislation in his two terms than either Carter or Bush did in their Single terms"
Read your Aristotle. Passing laws is not a good or bad measure of good government. I thought you were a Libertarian who was tired of Gov tyranny? Now a government should pass a reasonable amount of laws, if it is passing lots and lots of laws quickly and in a rushed manner that can lead to people breaking them easier and consequences not being accounted for.


Now America is politically DUMB! It is often Gridlocked with Democrats and Republicans refusing to make sane compromises... DON'T look at American Failure!

"governed almost exclusively by executive order. " Turn off fox news, breitbart or whatever source told you that, it's lying too you. Liars are not worth their time. Look at the link below:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... ive_orders
We see Obama using executive orders a lot less then most of his predecessors of the 19th century.
Whatever source told you that Obama made more executive orders is not wrong but worse. They are purposely deceiving you to believe their FUD.

"Trump probably needs to get himself a senate majority leader who will do a better job than McConnell" " if they loose their majority in the mid-terms, Trump will get literally zero done thereafter."
Totally agreed.

I think that the Republicans want trump to fail with a mid term wipeout and accomplish nothing so that they can put pence in. I think it is a deliberate reverse abbott/Turnbull strategy.
...... *sigh*.


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Unread post by MG1962 » Fri 10 Nov, 2017 1:03 pm

Abraham wrote:
Fri 10 Nov, 2017 12:26 pm
Trump probably needs to get himself a senate majority leader who will do a better job than McConnell at wrangling the cats, because if they loose their majority in the mid-terms, Trump will get literally zero done thereafter.
In recent history - last 20 years or so. The President usually loses the Senate at the mid terms. The problem the Republicans have, they spent years telling us how bad the Democrats were they forgot to get around formulating solutions. So they will cop a double whammy at the polls.

To be fair to Trump he got blindsided on health. He talked up a plan he assumed someone had been working on for 6 years only to find...well there wasn't one.

Now the Republicans are getting major push back on the ACA - turns out Americans actually like it as long as you dont call it Obamacare. The recent enrollment period has shown off the chart new enrollments as people see the true value of a government sponsored health system.

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Unread post by MG1962 » Fri 10 Nov, 2017 1:04 pm

Munk wrote:
Fri 10 Nov, 2017 12:58 pm

Did i design the list you silly old bugger? Im just proving you guys are lying. There are dozens of examples in that article.
There is nothing wrong with the list. It is what you are trying imply by it thats the problem. :crazy

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Unread post by GNR4LIFE » Fri 10 Nov, 2017 1:11 pm

MG1962 wrote:
Fri 10 Nov, 2017 1:04 pm
Munk wrote:
Fri 10 Nov, 2017 12:58 pm

Did i design the list you silly old bugger? Im just proving you guys are lying. There are dozens of examples in that article.
There is nothing wrong with the list. It is what you are trying imply by it thats the problem. :crazy
Nothing has been passed in the senate. I would capiralize it, but its obnoxious. This is one of the worst spin jobs i have heard by a Trump supporter.

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Unread post by Abraham » Fri 10 Nov, 2017 1:18 pm

MG1962 wrote:
Fri 10 Nov, 2017 1:03 pm
In recent history - last 20 years or so. The President usually loses the Senate at the mid terms. The problem the Republicans have, they spent years telling us how bad the Democrats were they forgot to get around formulating solutions. So they will cop a double whammy at the polls.

To be fair to Trump he got blindsided on health. He talked up a plan he assumed someone had been working on for 6 years only to find...well there wasn't one.

Now the Republicans are getting major push back on the ACA - turns out Americans actually like it as long as you dont call it Obamacare. The recent enrollment period has shown off the chart new enrollments as people see the true value of a government sponsored health system.
People always like things they perceive to be free ... even if it isn't really free.

Trump included.

He is still a Democrat at heart, and as such he is happy to ultimately keep people in free healthcare, as long as he can get rid of the anti-competition aspects of obamacare and make it more price-competitive.

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Unread post by MG1962 » Fri 10 Nov, 2017 2:07 pm

Abraham wrote:
Fri 10 Nov, 2017 1:18 pm

He is still a Democrat at heart, and as such he is happy to ultimately keep people in free healthcare, as long as he can get rid of the anti-competition aspects of obamacare and make it more price-competitive.
Funny thing is in places where the the anti-competition have been repealed at the state level, the heath industry has been conspicuous in their lack of activity. I always thought lifting the state lines rule would be a major improvement for the industry, but like I said it just has not happened.

But the ACA was never pitched as a free system. That was how it survived the original supreme court case when they ruled it was a tax and the government had the right to introduce new taxes.

The real value is they are now purchasing healthcare that actually does something. A lot of the old plans were actually worthless. When you are paying $200 a month for a plan with zero co-pay and the deductible did not kick in until $2000.00 you might as well just keep the money in your pocket.

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Unread post by Abraham » Fri 10 Nov, 2017 2:09 pm

MG1962 wrote:
Fri 10 Nov, 2017 2:07 pm
A lot of the old plans were actually worthless. When you are paying $200 a month for a plan with zero co-pay and the deductible did not kick in until $2000.00 you might as well just keep the money in your pocket.
Reminds me of my Health Insurance Policy.

An absolute rort.

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Unread post by colmcd » Fri 10 Nov, 2017 2:30 pm

MG1962 wrote:
Fri 10 Nov, 2017 2:07 pm
Funny thing is in places where the the anti-competition have been repealed at the state level, the heath industry has been conspicuous in their lack of activity. I always thought lifting the state lines rule would be a major improvement for the industry, but like I said it just has not happened.

But the ACA was never pitched as a free system. That was how it survived the original supreme court case when they ruled it was a tax and the government had the right to introduce new taxes.

The real value is they are now purchasing healthcare that actually does something. A lot of the old plans were actually worthless. When you are paying $200 a month for a plan with zero co-pay and the deductible did not kick in until $2000.00 you might as well just keep the money in your pocket.
Yes, lifting the state lines rule (and opening up more competition) has done.... Nothing*.

America's health model is... TOTALLY BROKEN. Yes they pay more per person then we do for healthcare, they pay more money then the Dutch (who covered my friend for open heart surgery while he was on holidays for FREE for 6 weeks hospital stay) per person.

America's gun model is likewise Broken.

Looking to America for debates is like copying the Warriors or Titans for coaching structure and plan. Copy the worst and you get the worst. Don't look to trump's sillyness or America's polarisation... Nor look to Blake Fergusson and Josh Dugan on how to manage Alcohol! Look to those who do well and you will do well.

Proof is in the pudding. Our healthcare is FAR better and FAR cheaper. Lets look to countries like Japan that have great health and not to America, unless we want to get sick and FAT.


*why because the Neoclassical/neoliberal economic theories are total Myths. There is 0 science and some very bad math in them. Competition can lower prices and offer better services, however economists assume unlimited resources so LOTS of competition. That assumption is wrong and so you get only a very limited number of players offering services.

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Unread post by Geo. » Fri 10 Nov, 2017 2:35 pm

Well this has become very boooooooooooooooooooooring...

Hope there isn't another mass shooting around the corner...
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2. The Star of the Team is the Team
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Geo nailed it...

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Unread post by Munk » Fri 10 Nov, 2017 3:54 pm

Geo. wrote:
Fri 10 Nov, 2017 2:35 pm
Well this has become very boooooooooooooooooooooring...

Hope there isn't another mass shooting around the corner...
There are at least half a dozen on this forum who are hoping the opposite so that they can continue saying "told you so".

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Unread post by Cultured Bogan » Fri 10 Nov, 2017 3:59 pm

Not really Stryker. I honestly hope the country has an awakening and realises that they should resolve their squabbles without the use of violence and firearms. If they can do that then the discussion about gun control dies.
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Unread post by Earl » Fri 10 Nov, 2017 6:09 pm

GNR4LIFE wrote:
Fri 10 Nov, 2017 1:11 pm
MG1962 wrote:
Fri 10 Nov, 2017 1:04 pm
Munk wrote:
Fri 10 Nov, 2017 12:58 pm

Did i design the list you silly old bugger? Im just proving you guys are lying. There are dozens of examples in that article.
There is nothing wrong with the list. It is what you are trying imply by it thats the problem. :crazy
Nothing has been passed in the senate. I would capiralize it, but its obnoxious. This is one of the worst spin jobs i have heard by a Trump supporter.
Munk has some serious issues facing reality.

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Unread post by Tigerdon » Fri 10 Nov, 2017 6:19 pm

Tigerdon wrote:
Fri 10 Nov, 2017 5:59 am
Munk wrote:
Thu 09 Nov, 2017 11:51 pm
Tigerdon wrote:
Thu 09 Nov, 2017 9:22 pm
Munk wrote:
Thu 09 Nov, 2017 8:30 pm


Obviously not something that caught my attention. Try again.
Nar, you've read it but didn't want to answer.
Now you'll probably go into other threads and comment.
...and if we are all lucky you will as well.
You only joined in Oct and have been up to your elbows in the political stuff, some might start to think that's the main reason you're on here.
When people people like GNR, CB, Ink, Harvey, BBF, Col and others post. people know they are are WTs fans.
Hey Munk , do you want me to ask again ?
I’ve only asked four times?
Some people might be starting to think you have agenda to push and may not actually be a true Tiger by now.
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It's the Ivan of the tiger, It's the thrill of the fight...

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Unread post by Munk » Fri 10 Nov, 2017 7:12 pm

GNR4LIFE wrote:
Fri 10 Nov, 2017 1:11 pm
MG1962 wrote:
Fri 10 Nov, 2017 1:04 pm
Munk wrote:
Fri 10 Nov, 2017 12:58 pm

Did i design the list you silly old bugger? Im just proving you guys are lying. There are dozens of examples in that article.
There is nothing wrong with the list. It is what you are trying imply by it thats the problem. :crazy
Nothing has been passed in the senate. I would capiralize it, but its obnoxious. This is one of the worst spin jobs i have heard by a Trump supporter.
Im actually not a trump supporter as such, I just think he is funny how he is making leftists all over the world lose their minds. The misplaced hatred is awesome.

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