Climate Change Thread.

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hammertime
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Re: Climate Change Thread.

Post by hammertime » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 5:22 pm

Abraham wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 3:52 pm
hammertime wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 12:37 pm
Using the 'that guy killed 10, we only killed 1' argument. Don't look at us, look at them. Way to lead and contribute to our global society mate.
Balmain Boy wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 1:20 pm
yeah, that's a pretty poor pov abraham! everyone needs to do their bit! the more countries that do the right thing the more it puts pressure on those who aren't to change their ways.

and you're not going to suggest the carbon tax made any sort of difference to the bank balance of everyday aussies are you? all that liberal scaremongering for what amounted to very little change. energy prices have almost doubled since it was abolished in any case!

Yes, lets ruin our already struggling economy and standard of living so we can virtue signal to everyone else about what great global citizens we are.

Do we get brownie points in greeny heaven?
'struggling' - ??? we have the world record for the longest run of uninterrupted growth. :lol: :lol:

Maybe it's because i've got kids, but the essentials for life are water to drink, food, air to breathe and shelter. So yeah... if that is on the line, then I tend to put the economy 2nd... and you're talking to a banker here!

But you raise another interesting point about our economy. How well do you think we're going to do in the STEM era when we've got a large chunk of our workforce who only know how to shovel rocks or drill? Not real well is the answer.

Maybe, just maybe, we should take a big picture view rather than "they tuk ur jooobbbss". Or we're in danger of becoming the 'Blockbuster' of countries.

Renewables (or Fusion) is going to happen. We can only protect dying industries for so long.


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Post by Cultured Bogan » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 5:44 pm

Harvey wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 4:37 pm
We need to reduce our CO2 footprint & stop burning fossil fuels to generate power. Who's going to start the petition to invest in nuclear power that will reduce emissions?
I will. I am a huge advocate of nuclear power.
#penaltyTigers

Cuando llegue el día, y estoy parado a las puertas del cielo, será Dios pidiendo mi perdón...

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Post by Balmain Boy » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 5:47 pm

Abraham wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 3:52 pm
hammertime wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 12:37 pm
Using the 'that guy killed 10, we only killed 1' argument. Don't look at us, look at them. Way to lead and contribute to our global society mate.
Balmain Boy wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 1:20 pm
yeah, that's a pretty poor pov abraham! everyone needs to do their bit! the more countries that do the right thing the more it puts pressure on those who aren't to change their ways.

and you're not going to suggest the carbon tax made any sort of difference to the bank balance of everyday aussies are you? all that liberal scaremongering for what amounted to very little change. energy prices have almost doubled since it was abolished in any case!

Yes, lets ruin our already struggling economy and standard of living so we can virtue signal to everyone else about what great global citizens we are.

Do we get brownie points in greeny heaven?
We should probably re-introduce smoking in the workplace and stop women voting too, right?

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Post by Harvey » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 5:59 pm

Balmain Boy wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 5:47 pm
Abraham wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 3:52 pm
hammertime wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 12:37 pm
Using the 'that guy killed 10, we only killed 1' argument. Don't look at us, look at them. Way to lead and contribute to our global society mate.
Balmain Boy wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 1:20 pm
yeah, that's a pretty poor pov abraham! everyone needs to do their bit! the more countries that do the right thing the more it puts pressure on those who aren't to change their ways.

and you're not going to suggest the carbon tax made any sort of difference to the bank balance of everyday aussies are you? all that liberal scaremongering for what amounted to very little change. energy prices have almost doubled since it was abolished in any case!

Yes, lets ruin our already struggling economy and standard of living so we can virtue signal to everyone else about what great global citizens we are.

Do we get brownie points in greeny heaven?
We should probably re-introduce smoking in the workplace and stop women voting too, right?
As long as we also ban motorised transport, large scale industry and go back to a subsistence economy.

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Geo.
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Post by Geo. » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 5:59 pm

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 5:44 pm
Harvey wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 4:37 pm
We need to reduce our CO2 footprint & stop burning fossil fuels to generate power. Who's going to start the petition to invest in nuclear power that will reduce emissions?
I will. I am a huge advocate of nuclear power.
+1..Just ship the waste to Maralinga put it in a rocket every 10 or so years and shoot it at the Sun..the polly that comes up with that policy gets my Vote..
Ivan's Laws

1. You are either on the Bus or you are off..
2. The Star of the Team is the Team
3. Be the player your teammates want to play with..


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Post by Harvey » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 6:03 pm

Geo. wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 5:59 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 5:44 pm
Harvey wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 4:37 pm
We need to reduce our CO2 footprint & stop burning fossil fuels to generate power. Who's going to start the petition to invest in nuclear power that will reduce emissions?
I will. I am a huge advocate of nuclear power.
+1..Just ship the waste to Maralinga put it in a rocket every 10 or so years and shoot it at the Sun..the polly that comes up with that policy gets my Vote..
Or just sell the waste to North Korea or some of the middle eastern states. It is an economic goldmine

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Post by Cultured Bogan » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 7:56 pm

Geo. wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 5:59 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 5:44 pm
Harvey wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 4:37 pm
We need to reduce our CO2 footprint & stop burning fossil fuels to generate power. Who's going to start the petition to invest in nuclear power that will reduce emissions?
I will. I am a huge advocate of nuclear power.
+1..Just ship the waste to Maralinga put it in a rocket every 10 or so years and shoot it at the Sun..the polly that comes up with that policy gets my Vote..
Yeah nah. They have these neat things called excavators which dig deep holes. You can store the waste there where it poses no threat.
#penaltyTigers

Cuando llegue el día, y estoy parado a las puertas del cielo, será Dios pidiendo mi perdón...

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Post by Munk » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 8:09 pm

formerguest wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 4:46 pm
Stuff the people in developing countries, people here are struggling to fit their new boats in the yards of their McMansions or $2m terraces and tenants of their fourth or so rental property refuse to yield some yard space for them to store it, whilst demanding the gutters that have leaked for months be replaced.

The well off in the west should be able to watch the poor of the world suffer whilst they purchase as many firearms as they like and take out trucks and school run 4x4's out on their free weekends to utilise tax advantages, along with the extra dollars taken from the pockets of our workers that serve them on the sabbath.
Lol that nappy of yours is full pal. Better change it before you get a major rash and become even more unbearable.
Try Sudocrem, it works a charm for babies with sore bot bots.

ALX22
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Post by ALX22 » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 8:10 pm

Anyone on this forum work in the environmental sector?

TrueTiger
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Post by TrueTiger » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 8:29 pm

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 12:28 pm
TrueTiger wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 12:17 pm
Byron Bay Fan wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 10:26 am
Earl, we are now having super typhoons that we never had before and they are being caused by the surface of the ocean warming up. We had 300 km winds somewhere recently, I have never heard of anything like that speed in my lifetime.

Check here all the records being broken recently: https://www.usatoday.com/story/weather/ ... 642948001/

Explain how my analogy concerning my fish pond is blatantly incorrect.
The planet EARTH is older than the human race itself...Im pretty sure millions of years ago she had dramatic temperature and weather conditions come over her..she has survived..the ice age comes to mind,records dont go back far enough to see how dramatically things have changed,granted the pollution levels are obviously much higher than years and years ago because of our technology and inventions over the years...how about when volcanoes erupt at any given point that have been dormant for hundreds of years,spewing out poisonous gases and ash into the atmosphere,is that an unnatural occurance or is it part of the earths makeup and nature doing its thing..Bali at the moment and any number of volcanoes that are dormant could spring up and keep spewing for weeks or months,how does that impact our atmospere and what does it contribute to climate change...just asking as Im no scientist... :o
That's true in a manner of speaking. Many of the gasses and the like are naturally occuring however and breakdown quicker. Synthetic Refrigerants for example have a far higher GWP compared to natural refrigerants (CO2, NH3 and Hydrocarbons,) in that 1kg of certain refrigerants are equivalent to 3,770 times that of 1kg of CO2. These sorts of gasses take longer to breakdown and contribute more that natural greenhouse gasses because they are synthetic compounds. This along with other man made emissions are compounding an already natural process.

The last big step taken was control on Chlorofluorocarbons because it was breaking the ozone down. They ban them and low and behold the ozone recovers, with first signs only being recognised last year. Phase down and phase out of CFC's started in 1980!
Thank you CB for a sensible and precise explanation to my enquiry,Iam by no means an expert on environmental conversations,however you have shown me the areas in which the atmosphere is highly affected by human progress and modern inventions that can cause severe damage if not monitored and controlled...
The immediate impact we make on our environment etc has to be our responsibility,but by no means should it convert us to socially green voting enthusiasts,we must do everything sensibly and understanderbly that suits all mankind and the next generations following us for the planet to be a much better place for all....
You may see me struggle...but you will never see me quit... :D

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Geo.
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Post by Geo. » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 8:34 pm

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 7:56 pm
Geo. wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 5:59 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 5:44 pm
Harvey wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 4:37 pm
We need to reduce our CO2 footprint & stop burning fossil fuels to generate power. Who's going to start the petition to invest in nuclear power that will reduce emissions?
I will. I am a huge advocate of nuclear power.
+1..Just ship the waste to Maralinga put it in a rocket every 10 or so years and shoot it at the Sun..the polly that comes up with that policy gets my Vote..
Yeah nah. They have these neat things called excavators which dig deep holes. You can store the waste there where it poses no threat.
Where is the fun in that...
Ivan's Laws

1. You are either on the Bus or you are off..
2. The Star of the Team is the Team
3. Be the player your teammates want to play with..

formerguest
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Post by formerguest » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 9:22 pm

Munk wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 8:09 pm
formerguest wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 4:46 pm
Stuff the people in developing countries, people here are struggling to fit their new boats in the yards of their McMansions or $2m terraces and tenants of their fourth or so rental property refuse to yield some yard space for them to store it, whilst demanding the gutters that have leaked for months be replaced.

The well off in the west should be able to watch the poor of the world suffer whilst they purchase as many firearms as they like and take out trucks and school run 4x4's out on their free weekends to utilise tax advantages, along with the extra dollars taken from the pockets of our workers that serve them on the sabbath.
Lol that nappy of yours is full pal. Better change it before you get a major rash and become even more unbearable.
Try Sudocrem, it works a charm for babies with sore bot bots.
Thanks for the idea, I am about to head down to Coles to pick up a few things. Some nappies and cream would be a good addition to place in one of the community trolleys that those of us that are better off and care, fill up for those in need of a hand.

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Post by Byron Bay Fan » Fri 01 Dec, 2017 12:43 am

Munk wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 8:09 pm
formerguest wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 4:46 pm
Stuff the people in developing countries, people here are struggling to fit their new boats in the yards of their McMansions or $2m terraces and tenants of their fourth or so rental property refuse to yield some yard space for them to store it, whilst demanding the gutters that have leaked for months be replaced.

The well off in the west should be able to watch the poor of the world suffer whilst they purchase as many firearms as they like and take out trucks and school run 4x4's out on their free weekends to utilise tax advantages, along with the extra dollars taken from the pockets of our workers that serve them on the sabbath.
Lol that nappy of yours is full pal. Better change it before you get a major rash and become even more unbearable.
Try Sudocrem, it works a charm for babies with sore bot bots.
Stryker, you have just proved to me that nothing has changed in Deep North mentality since I left the place in 1973 - that was the reason I kept to the southern side of the border since then. Joh Bjelke still lives on in the hearts and minds of Pauline Hanson's mob who recently got more first preference votes than the Greens. Actually try and contribute something to the argument.
Malcolm Knox: What has happened this week is a pity for the Tigers, a pity for Jason Taylor and a pity for Robbie Farah, who had achieved more than the Big Four put together but was somehow turned into collateral damage. (SMH 25-26 March, 2017)

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Post by innsaneink » Fri 01 Dec, 2017 6:19 am

Lol

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Post by Byron Bay Fan » Fri 01 Dec, 2017 7:10 am

There are various aspects of this debate, one factor is population explosion partly due to modern vaccines and other medicines.

The Philippines' population about a hundred years ago was about 5 million people, I have chosen this country due to there being virtually no immigration. They lost about a million during the second World War, approximately one sixth of their then population. Well now their population is about one hundred million more that and ,maybe would be 116 million without the War.

How can the Earth with limited space and resources cope with this increase in population and still provide a decent standard of survival? And to exasperate the situation we are consuming more every few years, more and heavier cars is just one example.

Strictly speaking the well off care very little for their their own descendants and other people because of the bigger heavier cars they utilise.

I have lived for years in Australia and abroad without a motor vehicle, even in flooded rural Australia that meant being cut off for a few days - didn't hurt me in the slightest. It made me a better person to become patient and to adapt to different situations.

In rural Australia the water is more important than a few days inconvenience. And that same fresh water is more important for Pacific Islanders being flooded with salt water and for Oz farmers whom can't adjust to shifting rainfall patterns. And those farmers supply the city slickers for food for their tummies - but city slickers' unnecessary cars will kill the water supply to create their own food requirements. What goes round..
Malcolm Knox: What has happened this week is a pity for the Tigers, a pity for Jason Taylor and a pity for Robbie Farah, who had achieved more than the Big Four put together but was somehow turned into collateral damage. (SMH 25-26 March, 2017)

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Post by Cultured Bogan » Fri 01 Dec, 2017 7:54 am

ALX22 wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 8:10 pm
Anyone on this forum work in the environmental sector?
I don't work in the environmental sector, but my industry works heavily with environmental bodies as it impacts heavily in terms of direct and indirect carbon emissions. I frequent seminars and conventions in regard to developments and changes in climate change policy that affect our industry.
#penaltyTigers

Cuando llegue el día, y estoy parado a las puertas del cielo, será Dios pidiendo mi perdón...

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Post by Cultured Bogan » Fri 01 Dec, 2017 7:58 am

Geo. wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 8:34 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 7:56 pm
Geo. wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 5:59 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 5:44 pm


I will. I am a huge advocate of nuclear power.
+1..Just ship the waste to Maralinga put it in a rocket every 10 or so years and shoot it at the Sun..the polly that comes up with that policy gets my Vote..
Yeah nah. They have these neat things called excavators which dig deep holes. You can store the waste there where it poses no threat.
Where is the fun in that...
I assume you're being facetious about nuclear power Geo? I would have no problems with Australia adopting it. We sit on something ridiculous like 35-40% of the worlds deposits, creates zero emissions and the yield of Uranium compared to coal is a factor of something like 15,000 times.

We have crazy OHS laws, you wouldn't be able to fart on site without filling out a SWMS first. France has run nuclear power for decades without major event. We don't live on fault lines, tsunamis appear to be a nonevent this far south and we're not a communist machine who cares little for the welfare of workers.
#penaltyTigers

Cuando llegue el día, y estoy parado a las puertas del cielo, será Dios pidiendo mi perdón...

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Post by Abraham » Fri 01 Dec, 2017 9:06 am

hammertime wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 5:22 pm
Abraham wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 3:52 pm
hammertime wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 12:37 pm
Using the 'that guy killed 10, we only killed 1' argument. Don't look at us, look at them. Way to lead and contribute to our global society mate.
Balmain Boy wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 1:20 pm
yeah, that's a pretty poor pov abraham! everyone needs to do their bit! the more countries that do the right thing the more it puts pressure on those who aren't to change their ways.

and you're not going to suggest the carbon tax made any sort of difference to the bank balance of everyday aussies are you? all that liberal scaremongering for what amounted to very little change. energy prices have almost doubled since it was abolished in any case!

Yes, lets ruin our already struggling economy and standard of living so we can virtue signal to everyone else about what great global citizens we are.

Do we get brownie points in greeny heaven?
'struggling' - ??? we have the world record for the longest run of uninterrupted growth. :lol: :lol:

Maybe it's because i've got kids, but the essentials for life are water to drink, food, air to breathe and shelter. So yeah... if that is on the line, then I tend to put the economy 2nd... and you're talking to a banker here!

But you raise another interesting point about our economy. How well do you think we're going to do in the STEM era when we've got a large chunk of our workforce who only know how to shovel rocks or drill? Not real well is the answer.

Maybe, just maybe, we should take a big picture view rather than "they tuk ur jooobbbss". Or we're in danger of becoming the 'Blockbuster' of countries.

Renewables (or Fusion) is going to happen. We can only protect dying industries for so long.
If your a banker, then you understand Financial Cycles.

You also understand household debt is at levels never seen before.

We are well overdue for a recession, and taking steps to punish the economy unnecessarily will bring that on quicker than if the market were left to its own devices.

Ultimately, if you take action such as implement a Carbon Tax, it needs to be done with specific goals that can be achieved... your basic cost/benefit analysis.

So how much will this cost the economy? We don't know.
What level of emission reduction will be needed to affect the climate? We don't know.
How much will world wide temperatures reduce if we implement a Carbon Tax in Australia? NONE.

Good luck with that.

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