Climate Change Thread.

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Abraham
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Re: Climate Change Thread.

Post by Abraham » Fri 01 Dec, 2017 9:08 am

Balmain Boy wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 5:47 pm
Abraham wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 3:52 pm
hammertime wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 12:37 pm
Using the 'that guy killed 10, we only killed 1' argument. Don't look at us, look at them. Way to lead and contribute to our global society mate.
Balmain Boy wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 1:20 pm
yeah, that's a pretty poor pov abraham! everyone needs to do their bit! the more countries that do the right thing the more it puts pressure on those who aren't to change their ways.

and you're not going to suggest the carbon tax made any sort of difference to the bank balance of everyday aussies are you? all that liberal scaremongering for what amounted to very little change. energy prices have almost doubled since it was abolished in any case!

Yes, lets ruin our already struggling economy and standard of living so we can virtue signal to everyone else about what great global citizens we are.

Do we get brownie points in greeny heaven?
We should probably re-introduce smoking in the workplace and stop women voting too, right?
No, lets just stick to your original suggestion.

Lets punish the country because it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside.


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Post by Abraham » Fri 01 Dec, 2017 9:09 am

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 4:08 pm
Better yet, lets do nothing and our kids will have no standard of living.
Even better, lets work out an actual strategy that has a defined outcome.

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Post by Cultured Bogan » Fri 01 Dec, 2017 9:26 am

Abraham wrote:
Fri 01 Dec, 2017 9:09 am
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 4:08 pm
Better yet, lets do nothing and our kids will have no standard of living.
Even better, lets work out an actual strategy that has a defined outcome.
Of which some are already working on (e.g. high GWP HFC phase downs.) That is a worldwide initiative.

This is the price of progress. Manufacturing is virtually non-existent in this country anymore, highly mechanised or off-shore. The industrial revolution saw a lot of people end up out of work, and yet society progressed.

Where one door closes another opens, there will a multitude of opportunities to grow green industries. Australia has always had to rely on innovation to be competitive, green initiatives are inevitable so why not get ahead of the pack and be a leader to capitalise on it.
"This club means a lot to me and I really love this club, I love playing here, I love playing with all of the boys, it's what I've known for pretty much all of my life and I'm happy to be here." - Luke Brooks.

Cuando llegue el día, y estoy parado a las puertas del cielo, será Dios pidiendo mi perdón...

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Geo.
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Post by Geo. » Fri 01 Dec, 2017 10:18 am

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 01 Dec, 2017 7:58 am
Geo. wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 8:34 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 7:56 pm
Geo. wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 5:59 pm


+1..Just ship the waste to Maralinga put it in a rocket every 10 or so years and shoot it at the Sun..the polly that comes up with that policy gets my Vote..
Yeah nah. They have these neat things called excavators which dig deep holes. You can store the waste there where it poses no threat.
Where is the fun in that...
I assume you're being facetious about nuclear power Geo? I would have no problems with Australia adopting it. We sit on something ridiculous like 35-40% of the worlds deposits, creates zero emissions and the yield of Uranium compared to coal is a factor of something like 15,000 times.

We have crazy OHS laws, you wouldn't be able to fart on site without filling out a SWMS first. France has run nuclear power for decades without major event. We don't live on fault lines, tsunamis appear to be a nonevent this far south and we're not a communist machine who cares little for the welfare of workers.
A little ...but I agree 100% with you Nuclear Power ..it should be our way forward in Australia but I doubt that it would gain political support nor that of the uniformed average Joe..
Wests Tigers don't need a Coach.. The playing group has taken over..
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 25 Oct, 2018 12:17 am
OK I was wrong
happy tiger wrote:
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Post by Abraham » Fri 01 Dec, 2017 11:06 am

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 01 Dec, 2017 9:26 am
Abraham wrote:
Fri 01 Dec, 2017 9:09 am
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 4:08 pm
Better yet, lets do nothing and our kids will have no standard of living.
Even better, lets work out an actual strategy that has a defined outcome.
Of which some are already working on (e.g. high GWP HFC phase downs.) That is a worldwide initiative.

This is the price of progress. Manufacturing is virtually non-existent in this country anymore, highly mechanised or off-shore. The industrial revolution saw a lot of people end up out of work, and yet society progressed.

Where one door closes another opens, there will a multitude of opportunities to grow green industries. Australia has always had to rely on innovation to be competitive, green initiatives are inevitable so why not get ahead of the pack and be a leader to capitalise on it.
I don't disagree with innovation at all.

I don't disagree with looking after the environment at all.

What i disagree with is Government inspired tax grabs, increases to our cost of living, and decreases to our standard of living, with no specific end game in mind.

HFC phase downs are fine, broad based carbon taxes are not.

If Government were serious about alternative energy sources that have better environmental outcomes, they would be investigating the implementation of nuclear power and clean coal until such time that green industries can become affordable and reliable sources of energy. At present that seems a long way off.


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Post by Cultured Bogan » Fri 01 Dec, 2017 11:15 am

Abraham wrote:
Fri 01 Dec, 2017 11:06 am
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 01 Dec, 2017 9:26 am
Abraham wrote:
Fri 01 Dec, 2017 9:09 am
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 4:08 pm
Better yet, lets do nothing and our kids will have no standard of living.
Even better, lets work out an actual strategy that has a defined outcome.
Of which some are already working on (e.g. high GWP HFC phase downs.) That is a worldwide initiative.

This is the price of progress. Manufacturing is virtually non-existent in this country anymore, highly mechanised or off-shore. The industrial revolution saw a lot of people end up out of work, and yet society progressed.

Where one door closes another opens, there will a multitude of opportunities to grow green industries. Australia has always had to rely on innovation to be competitive, green initiatives are inevitable so why not get ahead of the pack and be a leader to capitalise on it.
I don't disagree with innovation at all.

I don't disagree with looking after the environment at all.

What i disagree with is Government inspired tax grabs, increases to our cost of living, and decreases to our standard of living, with no specific end game in mind.

HFC phase downs are fine, broad based carbon taxes are not.

If Government were serious about alternative energy sources that have better environmental outcomes, they would be investigating the implementation of nuclear power and clean coal until such time that green industries can become affordable and reliable sources of energy. At present that seems a long way off.
Probably because every man and his dog are opposed to nuclear because Japan built a reactor on a fault line prone to tidal waves and the Soviet Union were careless thirty years ago. Scaremongering.

I agreed with the carbon tax in principle, I thought it was heavy handed though. As it happens energy is even more expensive since the repeal of the CPRS. It certainly did good things in my sector, it forced end users to adopt more green systems and the increase in scale has seen the price of green systems come down and more affordable in line with the less environmentally friendly solutions.
"This club means a lot to me and I really love this club, I love playing here, I love playing with all of the boys, it's what I've known for pretty much all of my life and I'm happy to be here." - Luke Brooks.

Cuando llegue el día, y estoy parado a las puertas del cielo, será Dios pidiendo mi perdón...

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Post by colmcd » Fri 01 Dec, 2017 12:18 pm

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 01 Dec, 2017 11:15 am
Abraham wrote:
Fri 01 Dec, 2017 11:06 am
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 01 Dec, 2017 9:26 am
Abraham wrote:
Fri 01 Dec, 2017 9:09 am


Even better, lets work out an actual strategy that has a defined outcome.
Of which some are already working on (e.g. high GWP HFC phase downs.) That is a worldwide initiative.

This is the price of progress. Manufacturing is virtually non-existent in this country anymore, highly mechanised or off-shore. The industrial revolution saw a lot of people end up out of work, and yet society progressed.

Where one door closes another opens, there will a multitude of opportunities to grow green industries. Australia has always had to rely on innovation to be competitive, green initiatives are inevitable so why not get ahead of the pack and be a leader to capitalise on it.
I don't disagree with innovation at all.

I don't disagree with looking after the environment at all.

What i disagree with is Government inspired tax grabs, increases to our cost of living, and decreases to our standard of living, with no specific end game in mind.

HFC phase downs are fine, broad based carbon taxes are not.

If Government were serious about alternative energy sources that have better environmental outcomes, they would be investigating the implementation of nuclear power and clean coal until such time that green industries can become affordable and reliable sources of energy. At present that seems a long way off.
Probably because every man and his dog are opposed to nuclear because Japan built a reactor on a fault line prone to tidal waves and the Soviet Union were careless thirty years ago. Scaremongering.

I agreed with the carbon tax in principle, I thought it was heavy handed though. As it happens energy is even more expensive since the repeal of the CPRS. It certainly did good things in my sector, it forced end users to adopt more green systems and the increase in scale has seen the price of green systems come down and more affordable in line with the less environmentally friendly solutions.
I hear where you are coming from Bogan. I just have this problem of shifting weather patterns and shifting environmental concerns. While fault lines don't often move and no one should even consider a reactor there.... Tsunami's may become more of a feature. Weather is becoming more extreme. Texas is not known for floods, it DOES not HAPPEN... till 2017!

Maybe Japan will still need Nuclear power, Australia however does not. Honestly we could expand Solar far more cheaply then Nuclear. Politically people backed a Nuclear power plant in South Australia and then people asked "what are we going to use the power on??" No answer was given! It's like us rebuilding our stadiums at the moment, it would waste money big time.

No privatization of power. No Nuclear power (Prove the need first) and lets embrace renewable energy that is already at price point comparison with Gas. Enough of the skeptic septics, stop holding Australia back.

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Post by colmcd » Fri 01 Dec, 2017 12:20 pm

Why I mentioned privatization of power?

Because privatising our power has caused power rises FAR HIGHER then the ETS!
Yes Privatization is failing NSW, really hurting South Australia and Victoria which only gives them really expensive power. Our power is cheaper and from black coal, Vic uses awful brown coal. ARRgh.
If you are anti ETS for cost reasons, privatization has been far more expensive, costly and harmful.

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Post by Abraham » Fri 01 Dec, 2017 3:46 pm

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 01 Dec, 2017 7:58 am

I assume you're being facetious about nuclear power Geo? I would have no problems with Australia adopting it. We sit on something ridiculous like 35-40% of the worlds deposits, creates zero emissions and the yield of Uranium compared to coal is a factor of something like 15,000 times.

We have crazy OHS laws, you wouldn't be able to fart on site without filling out a SWMS first. France has run nuclear power for decades without major event. We don't live on fault lines, tsunamis appear to be a nonevent this far south and we're not a communist machine who cares little for the welfare of workers.
Coincidentally, Cory Bernard is introducing a bill into the Senate today to overturn Nuclear bans.

Tony Abbott also said the other week that we should look at Nuclear Energy options.

At least its being discussed openly.

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Post by Cultured Bogan » Fri 01 Dec, 2017 4:10 pm

Abraham wrote:
Fri 01 Dec, 2017 3:46 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 01 Dec, 2017 7:58 am

I assume you're being facetious about nuclear power Geo? I would have no problems with Australia adopting it. We sit on something ridiculous like 35-40% of the worlds deposits, creates zero emissions and the yield of Uranium compared to coal is a factor of something like 15,000 times.

We have crazy OHS laws, you wouldn't be able to fart on site without filling out a SWMS first. France has run nuclear power for decades without major event. We don't live on fault lines, tsunamis appear to be a nonevent this far south and we're not a communist machine who cares little for the welfare of workers.
Coincidentally, Cory Bernard is introducing a bill into the Senate today to overturn Nuclear bans.

Tony Abbott also said the other week that we should look at Nuclear Energy options.

At least its being discussed openly.
Never thought I'd see the day where I'd agree with either of them :)
"This club means a lot to me and I really love this club, I love playing here, I love playing with all of the boys, it's what I've known for pretty much all of my life and I'm happy to be here." - Luke Brooks.

Cuando llegue el día, y estoy parado a las puertas del cielo, será Dios pidiendo mi perdón...

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Post by Byron Bay Fan » Sat 02 Dec, 2017 8:39 am

Geo. wrote:
Fri 01 Dec, 2017 10:18 am
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 01 Dec, 2017 7:58 am
Geo. wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 8:34 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 7:56 pm


Yeah nah. They have these neat things called excavators which dig deep holes. You can store the waste there where it poses no threat.
Where is the fun in that...
I assume you're being facetious about nuclear power Geo? I would have no problems with Australia adopting it. We sit on something ridiculous like 35-40% of the worlds deposits, creates zero emissions and the yield of Uranium compared to coal is a factor of something like 15,000 times.

We have crazy OHS laws, you wouldn't be able to fart on site without filling out a SWMS first. France has run nuclear power for decades without major event. We don't live on fault lines, tsunamis appear to be a nonevent this far south and we're not a communist machine who cares little for the welfare of workers.
A little ...but I agree 100% with you Nuclear Power ..it should be our way forward in Australia but I doubt that it would gain political support nor that of the uniformed average Joe..
How immoral of us to create radioactive wastes that have to be safely stored for tens of thousands of years. We don't have any cultures/civilisations lasting that long except for the Aborigines. Strictly speaking we also don't have the technology that is also economic. Nuke also heats up vast amounts of water that is why always located near rivers or the ocean - so the heat factor still exists.

But more importantly why do we have to be so addicted to artifical energy? People will remain healthy for a lot longer period if they use pushbikes where possible. When I was young in the countryside far from every household had a car, we walked, used bikes and sometimes buses and not a bicycle lane to be heard of. Everybody was a lot slimmer as a result. Oz with all our metal resources should be building sheltered bikeways around the nation - not extremely expressways.

The fossil fuel we should be using now is to construct these super bikeways, we even out the hills by building high structures out of gal piping for example like scaffolding that can easily be maintained. Very little damage to the environment in construction. We even build tunnels as well just as have done for expressways - they would only need to be about 2.4 metres wide not 20 metres. We have budget camping grounds or hotels every ten to twenty miles - so a holiday becomes a healthy exercise and more inclusive experience. For those buggered from their jobs or unhealthy they can take public transport. This would make us closer to and appreciate nature more - just as we should be.
Malcolm Knox: What has happened this week is a pity for the Tigers, a pity for Jason Taylor and a pity for Robbie Farah, who had achieved more than the Big Four put together but was somehow turned into collateral damage. (SMH 25-26 March, 2017)

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Post by magpiecol » Sat 02 Dec, 2017 10:30 am

Byron Bay Fan wrote:
Sat 02 Dec, 2017 8:39 am
Geo. wrote:
Fri 01 Dec, 2017 10:18 am
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 01 Dec, 2017 7:58 am
Geo. wrote:
Thu 30 Nov, 2017 8:34 pm


Where is the fun in that...
I assume you're being facetious about nuclear power Geo? I would have no problems with Australia adopting it. We sit on something ridiculous like 35-40% of the worlds deposits, creates zero emissions and the yield of Uranium compared to coal is a factor of something like 15,000 times.

We have crazy OHS laws, you wouldn't be able to fart on site without filling out a SWMS first. France has run nuclear power for decades without major event. We don't live on fault lines, tsunamis appear to be a nonevent this far south and we're not a communist machine who cares little for the welfare of workers.
A little ...but I agree 100% with you Nuclear Power ..it should be our way forward in Australia but I doubt that it would gain political support nor that of the uniformed average Joe..
How immoral of us to create radioactive wastes that have to be safely stored for tens of thousands of years. We don't have any cultures/civilisations lasting that long except for the Aborigines. Strictly speaking we also don't have the technology that is also economic. Nuke also heats up vast amounts of water that is why always located near rivers or the ocean - so the heat factor still exists.

But more importantly why do we have to be so addicted to artifical energy? People will remain healthy for a lot longer period if they use pushbikes where possible. When I was young in the countryside far from every household had a car, we walked, used bikes and sometimes buses and not a bicycle lane to be heard of. Everybody was a lot slimmer as a result. Oz with all our metal resources should be building sheltered bikeways around the nation - not extremely expressways.

The fossil fuel we should be using now is to construct these super bikeways, we even out the hills by building high structures out of gal piping for example like scaffolding that can easily be maintained. Very little damage to the environment in construction. We even build tunnels as well just as have done for expressways - they would only need to be about 2.4 metres wide not 20 metres. We have budget camping grounds or hotels every ten to twenty miles - so a holiday becomes a healthy exercise and more inclusive experience. For those buggered from their jobs or unhealthy they can take public transport. This would make us closer to and appreciate nature more - just as we should be.

I'm starting to hear the "Twilight Zone" music.

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Post by Earl » Sat 02 Dec, 2017 10:37 am

BBF - I honestly think if we just pushed riding bikes we'd solve a heap of problems. It'd drop our resource usage heaps and we'd all be fitter.

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Post by Byron Bay Fan » Sat 02 Dec, 2017 1:14 pm

Earl wrote:
Sat 02 Dec, 2017 10:37 am
BBF - I honestly think if we just pushed riding bikes we'd solve a heap of problems. It'd drop our resource usage heaps and we'd all be fitter.
As well you meet people and chat along the way, you plan trips away from the midday heat. I thought the ideal was we grew great palm gardens and fruit trees around the bike ways so there would be some protection from extreme weather and can have rest and fresh free feed along the way. It could develop like the spirit of the kibbutz in Israel.
Malcolm Knox: What has happened this week is a pity for the Tigers, a pity for Jason Taylor and a pity for Robbie Farah, who had achieved more than the Big Four put together but was somehow turned into collateral damage. (SMH 25-26 March, 2017)

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Post by happy tiger » Sat 02 Dec, 2017 6:22 pm

Our climate is obviously changing and we are in some way responsible for it

But I have a question for some of the more intelligent Forum members

They ( scientists ) are currently looking at whether they could see any signs of global warming before we have had a Geomagnetic Reversal

Could there be a link ??

We are about 340 000 years past the average of one occurring (last full reversal was 780 000 years ago ) and you can link some major environmental occurrences to when they have occurred

We had a minor reversal 41 000 years ago (called an excursion ) which obviously happened 1000 years approximately before our last ice age

These things can last for thousands of years and can reduce our protection from the sun and even asteroids

Our magnetic field can drop to 5 % of its usual level while they happen

With the increase in activity and severity of the plates moving and with the larger earthquakes etc could we be get a warning from Mother Earth

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Post by Geo. » Sat 02 Dec, 2017 9:15 pm

happy tiger wrote:
Sat 02 Dec, 2017 6:22 pm
Our climate is obviously changing and we are in some way responsible for it

But I have a question for some of the more intelligent Forum members

They ( scientists ) are currently looking at whether they could see any signs of global warming before we have had a Geomagnetic Reversal

Could there be a link ??

We are about 340 000 years past the average of one occurring (last full reversal was 780 000 years ago ) and you can link some major environmental occurrences to when they have occurred

We had a minor reversal 41 000 years ago (called an excursion ) which obviously happened 1000 years approximately before our last ice age

These things can last for thousands of years and can reduce our protection from the sun and even asteroids

Our magnetic field can drop to 5 % of its usual level while they happen

With the increase in activity and severity of the plates moving and with the larger earthquakes etc could we be get a warning from Mother Earth
It's the Aliens mate..
Wests Tigers don't need a Coach.. The playing group has taken over..
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 25 Oct, 2018 12:17 am
OK I was wrong
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 22 Nov, 2018 12:13 am
I know at times I'm not always the brightest light in the kitchen

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Post by happy tiger » Sat 02 Dec, 2017 10:07 pm

Geo. wrote:
Sat 02 Dec, 2017 9:15 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Sat 02 Dec, 2017 6:22 pm
Our climate is obviously changing and we are in some way responsible for it

But I have a question for some of the more intelligent Forum members

They ( scientists ) are currently looking at whether they could see any signs of global warming before we have had a Geomagnetic Reversal

Could there be a link ??

We are about 340 000 years past the average of one occurring (last full reversal was 780 000 years ago ) and you can link some major environmental occurrences to when they have occurred

We had a minor reversal 41 000 years ago (called an excursion ) which obviously happened 1000 years approximately before our last ice age

These things can last for thousands of years and can reduce our protection from the sun and even asteroids

Our magnetic field can drop to 5 % of its usual level while they happen

With the increase in activity and severity of the plates moving and with the larger earthquakes etc could we be get a warning from Mother Earth
It's the Aliens mate..
Left the Forum and he gets blamed for everything , surprised Jason Taylor or Fitzhenry haven't got a mention

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Post by Earl » Sat 02 Dec, 2017 10:13 pm

I said earlier that there are so many potential confounding factors when it comes to climate and in reality our knowledge of the climate is extremely poor.

I wouldn't be surprised if in 100 years time we found out the Aliens were responsible for the cooling and heating cycles that occur on Earth.

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