Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

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Chris
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Re: Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

Post by Chris » Fri 17 Aug, 2018 3:56 am

What's everyone's thoughts on Turnball's NEG system? I personally think that he's handing the the Prime Ministership to Shorten with this policy. The NEG might lower the cost of power a little but not enough for Aussies to feel some relief in their pocket for it to be a success.

Im all about Coal Fired Power stations. Yeah it might not help the environment but when you get more in your pocket, I think most wont worry about the environment. This is a no brainer to me.


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Post by formerguest » Fri 17 Aug, 2018 8:16 am

Chris wrote:
Fri 17 Aug, 2018 3:56 am
What's everyone's thoughts on Turnball's NEG system? I personally think that he's handing the the Prime Ministership to Shorten with this policy. The NEG might lower the cost of power a little but not enough for Aussies to feel some relief in their pocket for it to be a success.

Im all about Coal Fired Power stations. Yeah it might not help the environment but when you get more in your pocket, I think most wont worry about the environment. This is a no brainer to me.
There has to be a balance with availability/generating capability of power to inject into the system to meet demand spikes or cover for plant failure. The facts are that new solar and wind projects are already beating coal generation that already has it's plant in place on price and the gap is growing by the day. Businesses are increasingly planning and constructing their own renewable generation systems without any subsidies as the economics dictate that is the best decision.

Tony Abbott and a few cronies dismantled a reasonable policy that was in place and functioning, for a fleeting initial overnight small benefit to people's pockets. Many in the business community and the generators themselves were critical of the changes at the time and nearly all since have blamed that change and the uncertainty it created for the subsequent ridiculous increases in retail prices.

The same few conservatives have still been poisoning potential policy and disrupting progress this past week.

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Post by hammertime » Fri 17 Aug, 2018 10:02 am

I'm living in Hong Kong at the moment and you can visibly see what pollution does to an environment and people's health, let alone global warming. It's something we have to stop, but one that should be done incrementally.

Restructuring assets and retraining people doesn't happen overnight. You can't have all our coal miners and power workers move to work with renewables at the drop of a hat. Can take a generation.

One thing is clear. I don't want to leave a messed up environment to future generations. It's greedy and selfish. The more government policies put in place to drive to a sustainable outcome, the better.

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Post by formerguest » Fri 17 Aug, 2018 12:24 pm

hammertime wrote:
Fri 17 Aug, 2018 10:02 am
I'm living in Hong Kong at the moment and you can visibly see what pollution does to an environment and people's health, let alone global warming. It's something we have to stop, but one that should be done incrementally.

Restructuring assets and retraining people doesn't happen overnight. You can't have all our coal miners and power workers move to work with renewables at the drop of a hat. Can take a generation.

One thing is clear. I don't want to leave a messed up environment to future generations. It's greedy and selfish. The more government policies put in place to drive to a sustainable outcome, the better.
Good post, with the ultimate paragraph and it's short middle sentence particularly pertinent.

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Post by Snake » Fri 17 Aug, 2018 12:35 pm

formerguest wrote:
Fri 17 Aug, 2018 8:16 am
Chris wrote:
Fri 17 Aug, 2018 3:56 am
What's everyone's thoughts on Turnball's NEG system? I personally think that he's handing the the Prime Ministership to Shorten with this policy. The NEG might lower the cost of power a little but not enough for Aussies to feel some relief in their pocket for it to be a success.

Im all about Coal Fired Power stations. Yeah it might not help the environment but when you get more in your pocket, I think most wont worry about the environment. This is a no brainer to me.
There has to be a balance with availability/generating capability of power to inject into the system to meet demand spikes or cover for plant failure. The facts are that new solar and wind projects are already beating coal generation that already has it's plant in place on price and the gap is growing by the day. Businesses are increasingly planning and constructing their own renewable generation systems without any subsidies as the economics dictate that is the best decision.

Tony Abbott and a few cronies dismantled a reasonable policy that was in place and functioning, for a fleeting initial overnight small benefit to people's pockets. Many in the business community and the generators themselves were critical of the changes at the time and nearly all since have blamed that change and the uncertainty it created for the subsequent ridiculous increases in retail prices.

The same few conservatives have still been poisoning potential policy and disrupting progress this past week.
You all will be wishing in the not to distant future that these cronies succeeded in giving our country the policy that makes electricity to the people a necessity rather than a luxury...when you put your light switch on at any time of day seven days a week and it does not work then it will truly be power to the people in the streets and barring arms.
This is a fools game and the people of this country are going to pay a very heavy toll for the fools that are currently leading this nation to third world status. :crazy


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Post by Chris » Fri 17 Aug, 2018 2:03 pm

The world's biggest air polluters, China and India, run their power on coal fired power stations and give their people a cheap power source so they can live comfortably. They are building more and more of these power stations and they buy their coal directly from us.

We currently contribute to 1% of the world's pollution all the while the elderly freeze and melt because they cant afford heating and air-conditioning. The price of power is out of control for both residential and commercial use.

Here we are, in one hand we're trying to save the world by implementing renewable energy and reduce our carbon usage but with the other hand, we're selling China and India our coal to pollute the air??? I just cant wrap my mind around that concept.

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Post by Harvey » Fri 17 Aug, 2018 3:45 pm

Electricity prices have gone through the roof which has cost the country its manufacturing industries.

Meanwhile other countries use our natural resources to deliver cheap power (without any targets to meet) to industry with the products sold back to us.

Go nuclear, we have the resources to support it but a weak government and population that will not embrace rational debate.

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Post by formerguest » Fri 17 Aug, 2018 4:13 pm

We use five times or more energy per capita than people in India and China, even without much manufacturing industry. So until each of them use even half the amount as us, we have absolutely no right to b**** and moan about them.

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Post by Harvey » Fri 17 Aug, 2018 4:19 pm

formerguest wrote:
Fri 17 Aug, 2018 4:13 pm
We use five times or more energy per capita than people in India and China, even without much manufacturing industry. So until each of them use even half the amount as us, we have absolutely no right to b**** and moan about them.
Is that an accurate picture? How much pollution and greenhouse gases do other countries produce to sustain those populations?

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Post by Byron Bay Fan » Fri 17 Aug, 2018 4:59 pm

Nuclear reactors used massive amounts of water to stay cool. Some famous rivers in Europe are a few degrees warmer with dire consequences. As well it leaves dangerous wastes for millions of years - not a very moral solution either.
Malcolm Knox: What has happened this week is a pity for the Tigers, a pity for Jason Taylor and a pity for Robbie Farah, who had achieved more than the Big Four put together but was somehow turned into collateral damage. (SMH 25-26 March, 2017)

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Post by Byron Bay Fan » Fri 17 Aug, 2018 5:03 pm

In the short term something like every aircon unit has to be fuelled by solar power - if there is another heat for aircon necessity there should also be sufficient light for electricity generation. Aircons have greatly driven up electricity prices as they greatly increase the load required in peak periods when factories etc are also going. So a lot of extra capacity that is hardly used. If we can't make this simple adjustment then forget everything - don't ask third countries to control their usage.
Malcolm Knox: What has happened this week is a pity for the Tigers, a pity for Jason Taylor and a pity for Robbie Farah, who had achieved more than the Big Four put together but was somehow turned into collateral damage. (SMH 25-26 March, 2017)

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Post by Byron Bay Fan » Fri 17 Aug, 2018 5:06 pm

As well only allow cars with a powerful engine for tradespeople who need it - for domestic about 1800 or 2000cc limit.
Malcolm Knox: What has happened this week is a pity for the Tigers, a pity for Jason Taylor and a pity for Robbie Farah, who had achieved more than the Big Four put together but was somehow turned into collateral damage. (SMH 25-26 March, 2017)

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Post by Cultured Bogan » Fri 17 Aug, 2018 6:08 pm

Byron Bay Fan wrote:
Fri 17 Aug, 2018 5:03 pm
In the short term something like every aircon unit has to be fuelled by solar power - if there is another heat for aircon necessity there should also be sufficient light for electricity generation. Aircons have greatly driven up electricity prices as they greatly increase the load required in peak periods when factories etc are also going. So a lot of extra capacity that is hardly used. If we can't make this simple adjustment then forget everything - don't ask third countries to control their usage.
Do you know anything about HVACR or are you talking out your arse again? Air conditioners being as energy efficient as ever. Unless you plan on having a 15-20kw solar array you'll struggle.
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Post by formerguest » Fri 17 Aug, 2018 7:50 pm

Harvey wrote:
Fri 17 Aug, 2018 4:19 pm
formerguest wrote:
Fri 17 Aug, 2018 4:13 pm
We use five times or more energy per capita than people in India and China, even without much manufacturing industry. So until each of them use even half the amount as us, we have absolutely no right to b**** and moan about them.
Is that an accurate picture? How much pollution and greenhouse gases do other countries produce to sustain those populations?
It was my collective guesstimate based on memory of information around the time the coalition got back into power. Pretty sure that we each used about three times that of Chinese and a dozen times of those in India. Recall that the Nordic countries and others nearby were very high users, but probably expected because of the extreme cold climates.

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Post by Geo. » Fri 17 Aug, 2018 7:57 pm

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 17 Aug, 2018 6:08 pm
Byron Bay Fan wrote:
Fri 17 Aug, 2018 5:03 pm
In the short term something like every aircon unit has to be fuelled by solar power - if there is another heat for aircon necessity there should also be sufficient light for electricity generation. Aircons have greatly driven up electricity prices as they greatly increase the load required in peak periods when factories etc are also going. So a lot of extra capacity that is hardly used. If we can't make this simple adjustment then forget everything - don't ask third countries to control their usage.
Do you know anything about HVACR or are you talking out your arse again? Air conditioners being as energy efficient as ever. Unless you plan on having a 15-20kw solar array you'll struggle.
2nd part..
Wests Tigers don't need a Coach.. The playing group has taken over..
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 25 Oct, 2018 12:17 am
OK I was wrong
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 22 Nov, 2018 12:13 am
I know at times I'm not always the brightest light in the kitchen

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Post by Byron Bay Fan » Fri 17 Aug, 2018 10:42 pm

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 17 Aug, 2018 6:08 pm
Byron Bay Fan wrote:
Fri 17 Aug, 2018 5:03 pm
In the short term something like every aircon unit has to be fuelled by solar power - if there is another heat for aircon necessity there should also be sufficient light for electricity generation. Aircons have greatly driven up electricity prices as they greatly increase the load required in peak periods when factories etc are also going. So a lot of extra capacity that is hardly used. If we can't make this simple adjustment then forget everything - don't ask third countries to control their usage.
Do you know anything about HVACR or are you talking out your arse again? Air conditioners being as energy efficient as ever. Unless you plan on having a 15-20kw solar array you'll struggle.
They may be more energy efficient but that does not mean that they not need solar to compensate for their high energy usage. I have heard that one aircon is equivalent to six fans. Cars have also become more energy efficient but if you stand in middle of Parramatta Road you will still nearly die from the fumes. Also what is saved in efficiency is negated by more units in Australia and worldwide. BTW I have often referred to as being a smart arse so stand behind me and you might learn something.
Malcolm Knox: What has happened this week is a pity for the Tigers, a pity for Jason Taylor and a pity for Robbie Farah, who had achieved more than the Big Four put together but was somehow turned into collateral damage. (SMH 25-26 March, 2017)

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Post by Cultured Bogan » Sat 18 Aug, 2018 8:24 am

The more logical conclusion is to have solar feed the rest of you home and leave the air con on the grid. Same result, removing base load off the grid. It is not feasible to have air conditioning fed off solar without it becoming fiercely more expensive.

Also a thing to remember is that old more power hungry systems are being removed everyday so where more units are being installed, older units that use more harmful refrigerants and are grossly inefficient are being removed. Refrigeration is the biggest user of power. That is one of the single highest uses of power, again which majors are transitioning to lower energy and Natural refrigerant systems.

It will take time but the industry is catching up because power is becoming so expensive and due to issues surrounding synthetic refrigerants.
"This club means a lot to me and I really love this club, I love playing here, I love playing with all of the boys, it's what I've known for pretty much all of my life and I'm happy to be here." - Luke Brooks.

Cuando llegue el día, y estoy parado a las puertas del cielo, será Dios pidiendo mi perdón...

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Post by formerguest » Sat 18 Aug, 2018 9:21 am

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Sat 18 Aug, 2018 8:24 am
The more logical conclusion is to have solar feed the rest of you home and leave the air con on the grid. Same result, removing base load off the grid. It is not feasible to have air conditioning fed off solar without it becoming fiercely more expensive.

Also a thing to remember is that old more power hungry systems are being removed everyday so where more units are being installed, older units that use more harmful refrigerants and are grossly inefficient are being removed. Refrigeration is the biggest user of power. That is one of the single highest uses of power, again which majors are transitioning to lower energy and Natural refrigerant systems.

It will take time but the industry is catching up because power is becoming so expensive and due to issues surrounding synthetic refrigerants.
I had a 6.05kw string solar panel array installed east/west on Feb 2nd and apart from sucking up some extra juice at start up, found it normally easily feeds my older 8.1/9kw Mitsi split inverter during the brighter hot hours. It is serving a far from ideal, uninsulated cathedral style living area, but of course, I only set it to a comfortable temperature to suit the season, rather than a "teenager" type setting. It is currently heating the area at 21 degrees and not using any power from the grid.

I certainly have noticed a few pubs and liquor cellars have large arrays to offset their no doubt very substantial usage.

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