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formerguest
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Re: Euthanasia legislation passed Holy Moses

Unread post by formerguest » Sat 21 Oct, 2017 7:23 pm

Afraid this is another of those topics that finds logic and bibles drawn at ten paces.


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Unread post by Nelson » Sat 21 Oct, 2017 7:46 pm

Milky wrote:
Sat 21 Oct, 2017 6:06 pm
Just a quick point...

As a consequence of the terminal illness, the person has been experiencing severe pain,
suffering or physical incapacity to an extent unacceptable to the person.

Part of the NSW Bill, ambiguous to an extent. How would an objective person define severe pain?
It doesn't matter because that is a purely subjective condition that is not subject to Supreme Court review. The patient just has to certify that they are suffering etc. to an extent unacceptable to them. It is not a tough club model where people will be told to harden up, it's a free choice model. It may not pass in that form but that's how that bill is framed.

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Unread post by goldcoast tiger » Sat 21 Oct, 2017 8:26 pm

Milky wrote:
Sat 21 Oct, 2017 3:56 pm
Strongly oppose Euthanasia.

Hindering the natural death process. Hope it doesn't pass.

I feel for those who have it tough towards the end of their life. However, every way you look at this, it's suicide.
Isn't having a Doctor cutting out a malignant tumour also hindering the natural death process?
Or putting a donated heart in someone who would otherwise have died.
Aren't you having two bob each way?
Every day the natural death process is hindered somewhere in some way.

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Unread post by Lidcombe Magpie » Sat 21 Oct, 2017 9:07 pm

Milky wrote:
Sat 21 Oct, 2017 5:45 pm
Lidcombe Magpie wrote:
Sat 21 Oct, 2017 5:19 pm
Milky wrote:
Sat 21 Oct, 2017 3:56 pm
Strongly oppose Euthanasia.

Hindering the natural death process. Hope it doesn't pass.

I feel for those who have it tough towards the end of their life. However, every way you look at this, it's suicide.
You have obviously never watched a close relative die a slow and agonising death from cancer. Watch a love one cry from pain and prey for a quick end and then tell me what you think.
I have watched a close relative die slowly, not from cancer though.

My argument still stands.

Would a person not rather die fighting?

Have we neglected the duty that rises upon the person committing the act. This will increase suicide. People may make the wrong decisions, what if they would have beaten cancer?

It is going to become the resolution to many problems. But is it the right resolution?
Milky, my Father in Law died 12 mths ago today. He was given 6 mths to live and fought for 16 mths and by then he was spent and died a terribly difficult death. Nobody and I repeat nobody should be forced to endure such pain and kept alive against his will. It is cruel and evil that he was not given his wish to die.

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Unread post by Byron Bay Fan » Sat 21 Oct, 2017 9:17 pm

Wagga Tiger wrote:
Sat 21 Oct, 2017 6:18 pm
Milky wrote:
Sat 21 Oct, 2017 5:45 pm
Lidcombe Magpie wrote:
Sat 21 Oct, 2017 5:19 pm
Milky wrote:
Sat 21 Oct, 2017 3:56 pm
Strongly oppose Euthanasia.

Hindering the natural death process. Hope it doesn't pass.

I feel for those who have it tough towards the end of their life. However, every way you look at this, it's suicide.
You have obviously never watched a close relative die a slow and agonising death from cancer. Watch a love one cry from pain and prey for a quick end and then tell me what you think.
I have watched a close relative die slowly, not from cancer though.

My argument still stands.

Would a person not rather die fighting?

Have we neglected the duty that rises upon the person committing the act. This will increase suicide. People may make the wrong decisions, what if they would have beaten cancer?

It is going to become the resolution to many problems. But is it the right resolution?
To me this is a really ignorant statement Milky, I watched my Mother and my Mother in Law fight cancer with everything they had and it still got to the point they could fight no more but lay in a bed and turn into some sad parody of what they used to be. Days and days of pain and not even able to say goodbye to their families just laying there "living" . I know what choice they would have made if they were able and having gone through it twice I would back any one to make that decision to leave this world with dignity.
I have bent and broken the law for many a good cause and never for otherwise. The only time I felt p.ssweak in not breaking the law was when my mother asked me to end her life, I did not realise then the pain she was going to suffer in the next nine months, she had cancer everywhere. The only time I was p.ssweak in not wanting to face the cops, I have proudly faced off the cops since a youngster. When carrying her to the toilet her bones were crumbling. She could not pass waste due to the cancer spreading to her bowels etc. etc., you guys are lucky it is after dinnertime. She said that when she dies she is going to break God's neck for giving her cancer. That's the spirit mum. If someone was being abused she would stand up for them etc etc.. She eventually turned atheist over it.
Last edited by Byron Bay Fan on Sat 21 Oct, 2017 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Malcolm Knox: What has happened this week is a pity for the Tigers, a pity for Jason Taylor and a pity for Robbie Farah, who had achieved more than the Big Four put together but was somehow turned into collateral damage. (SMH 25-26 March, 2017)


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Unread post by Byron Bay Fan » Sat 21 Oct, 2017 9:24 pm

My mother did not say good bye to us, she was like in a stupor. But I made a one hour video of her when she was still strong to play after she died - did she tell everyone off who deserved it etc etc, as well as having everyone in stitches. Were there red faces galore ha ha ha.

Her last words were speaking on phone to her brother with another brother alongside - "how do you think I feel, I am doing the quickstep with your brother but he can't keep up with me!"
Malcolm Knox: What has happened this week is a pity for the Tigers, a pity for Jason Taylor and a pity for Robbie Farah, who had achieved more than the Big Four put together but was somehow turned into collateral damage. (SMH 25-26 March, 2017)

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Unread post by Byron Bay Fan » Sat 21 Oct, 2017 9:54 pm


Broken by Ray Davies of Kinks fame
Malcolm Knox: What has happened this week is a pity for the Tigers, a pity for Jason Taylor and a pity for Robbie Farah, who had achieved more than the Big Four put together but was somehow turned into collateral damage. (SMH 25-26 March, 2017)

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Unread post by diedpretty » Sat 21 Oct, 2017 10:27 pm

magpiecol wrote:
Sat 21 Oct, 2017 11:04 am
Byron Bay Fan wrote:
Sat 21 Oct, 2017 9:57 am
innsaneink wrote:
Sat 21 Oct, 2017 9:12 am
Good. . . . A bit of dignity

Can't see too many opposing this
Many legislators did oppose but was eventually passed 47-37 but still has to pass the upper chamber yet. It was a big hypocrisy the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) opposing euthanasia legislation but effectively practising it in their palliative care hospitals and charging a fortune for it as well. Now the RCC will be cut off at the Khyber Pass and will make a lot less money out of people dying and squeezing every drop out of breath and buck out of them and the health care system.
I thought long and hard as to how to reply to your disgraceful and bigoted posting. I am still at a loss.

I only hope that one day you never have to go to one of the wonderful palliative care hospitals. But if you do, you and yours will have a very different view to what you spewed out above.

:cry: :cry: :cry:
you are kidding aren't you - i think BBF was having a go at the Catholic Church who have made a buck out of everything that exists. I saw no malice towards respectable organisations.

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Unread post by innsaneink » Sat 21 Oct, 2017 11:00 pm

Have a read of some of these posts Milky... Some real life 'experiences'... Experience you're lucky at your age to yet experience...try to put yourself in others shoes and then ask yourself if you still "strongly oppose" this

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Unread post by Byron Bay Fan » Sun 22 Oct, 2017 9:21 am

I believe the Victorian legislation allows only for assisted dying if it is medical opinion that the person will die within 12 months without assistance and must be in great pain. These provisions will prevent some cases of attempted abuse etc.. If the person is "soon" to die than unless the stock market is set to crash in the meantime I can't see any great benefit that can be benefited by an earlier death.
Malcolm Knox: What has happened this week is a pity for the Tigers, a pity for Jason Taylor and a pity for Robbie Farah, who had achieved more than the Big Four put together but was somehow turned into collateral damage. (SMH 25-26 March, 2017)

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Unread post by Wagga Tiger » Sun 22 Oct, 2017 9:46 am

Milky wrote:
Sun 22 Oct, 2017 9:10 am

Your emotions are getting in the way of your arguments. I don’t support ‘people suffering before they die’. However, I do support the natural dying process and what comes along with it.

This is suicide. From every single perspective, it remains suicide. What makes it worse, it is assisted by another party in the circumstance where the individual can not inject the drug them self.

Lets neglect the responsibility of the doctor shall we?

Allowing this legislation to pass will cause numerous issues. A key one will be regarding the consent. What if a person isn’t in the correct psychological position to make a decision regarding their death, do we take their word or their families. What if their opinions conflict?

Consent will not always be voluntary.

The fact stands that this will increase suicide rates, there will be a conflict of interests in many scenarios and there will be numerous legal cases arising from this if it is assented to.
If I'm letting my emotions get in the way then you are letting your ignorance of life get in the way of yours. I really hope you never have to watch a loved one suffer through the end stage of cancer because it is a horrible thing to see. We knew they were both terminal and we new and they knew what they would go through while they were lucid and able to make decisions for themselves. I'm not advocating for people to take there lives willy nilly and some times people are not going to be able to make the decision for themselves but for those who can and those who want to avoid what's to come who are we to stop them.

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Unread post by Nelson » Sun 22 Oct, 2017 10:03 am

Milky wrote:
Sun 22 Oct, 2017 9:10 am

Your emotions are getting in the way of your arguments. I don’t support ‘people suffering before they die’. However, I do support the natural dying process and what comes along with it.

This is suicide. From every single perspective, it remains suicide. What makes it worse, it is assisted by another party in the circumstance where the individual can not inject the drug them self.

Lets neglect the responsibility of the doctor shall we?

Allowing this legislation to pass will cause numerous issues. A key one will be regarding the consent. What if a person isn’t in the correct psychological position to make a decision regarding their death, do we take their word or their families. What if their opinions conflict?

Consent will not always be voluntary.

The fact stands that this will increase suicide rates, there will be a conflict of interests in many scenarios and there will be numerous legal cases arising from this if it is assented to.
You posted the bill before, read it in its entirety.

Clause 14 provides that the primary medical practitioner must not provide the assistance if he or she knows that any financial or other advantage is likely to be gained by certain persons participating in the provision of assistance, or their associates, as a result of the death of the patient.

Clause 20 requires the patient to be examined and assessed by an independent psychiatrist or psychologist. The psychiatrist or psychologist must provide to the primary and secondary medical practitioners a report of the assessment. The primary medical practitioner must not provide assistance to the patient under the proposed Act unless the qualified psychiatrist or qualified psychologist makes an assessment that the patient has decision-making capacity in relation to the request for assistance and that the patient’s decision to request the assistance has been made freely, voluntarily and after due consideration.

The fact there may be legal cases is not a reason not to do something and this is not an argument that anyone with a close experience to a lingering, suffering death can or should have without emotion. Emotion is always part of argument, even in law.

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Unread post by Masterton » Sun 22 Oct, 2017 11:17 am

Milky wrote:
Sat 21 Oct, 2017 3:56 pm

My argument still stands.

Would a person not rather die fighting?

Have we neglected the duty that rises upon the person committing the act. This will increase suicide. People may make the wrong decisions, what if they would have beaten cancer?
I have the utmost respect for those who wish to fight to the end, but forcing people to live in pain is cruel. It may be suicide, but I will be making my own provisions to kill myself should I never to.
"I was on the bus before you painted it yellow."

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Unread post by Geo. » Sun 22 Oct, 2017 11:20 am

I vote Yes...
Ivan's Laws

1. You are either on the Bus or you are off..
2. The Star of the Team is the Team
3. Be the player your teammates want to play with..
Tiger Watto wrote:
Fri 03 Nov, 2017 8:07 am
Geo nailed it...

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Unread post by Milky » Sun 22 Oct, 2017 11:36 am

Nelson wrote:
Sun 22 Oct, 2017 10:03 am
Milky wrote:
Sun 22 Oct, 2017 9:10 am

Your emotions are getting in the way of your arguments. I don’t support ‘people suffering before they die’. However, I do support the natural dying process and what comes along with it.

This is suicide. From every single perspective, it remains suicide. What makes it worse, it is assisted by another party in the circumstance where the individual can not inject the drug them self.

Lets neglect the responsibility of the doctor shall we?

Allowing this legislation to pass will cause numerous issues. A key one will be regarding the consent. What if a person isn’t in the correct psychological position to make a decision regarding their death, do we take their word or their families. What if their opinions conflict?

Consent will not always be voluntary.

The fact stands that this will increase suicide rates, there will be a conflict of interests in many scenarios and there will be numerous legal cases arising from this if it is assented to.
You posted the bill before, read it in its entirety.

Clause 14 provides that the primary medical practitioner must not provide the assistance if he or she knows that any financial or other advantage is likely to be gained by certain persons participating in the provision of assistance, or their associates, as a result of the death of the patient.

Clause 20 requires the patient to be examined and assessed by an independent psychiatrist or psychologist. The psychiatrist or psychologist must provide to the primary and secondary medical practitioners a report of the assessment. The primary medical practitioner must not provide assistance to the patient under the proposed Act unless the qualified psychiatrist or qualified psychologist makes an assessment that the patient has decision-making capacity in relation to the request for assistance and that the patient’s decision to request the assistance has been made freely, voluntarily and after due consideration.

The fact there may be legal cases is not a reason not to do something and this is not an argument that anyone with a close experience to a lingering, suffering death can or should have without emotion. Emotion is always part of argument, even in law.
Exactly, what if there is no mental capacity to make the decision and it comes down to the family? Then a conflict of interest will arise.

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Unread post by Masterton » Sun 22 Oct, 2017 12:52 pm

Milky wrote:
Sun 22 Oct, 2017 11:36 am
Nelson wrote:
Sun 22 Oct, 2017 10:03 am
Milky wrote:
Sun 22 Oct, 2017 9:10 am

Your emotions are getting in the way of your arguments. I don’t support ‘people suffering before they die’. However, I do support the natural dying process and what comes along with it.

This is suicide. From every single perspective, it remains suicide. What makes it worse, it is assisted by another party in the circumstance where the individual can not inject the drug them self.

Lets neglect the responsibility of the doctor shall we?

Allowing this legislation to pass will cause numerous issues. A key one will be regarding the consent. What if a person isn’t in the correct psychological position to make a decision regarding their death, do we take their word or their families. What if their opinions conflict?

Consent will not always be voluntary.

The fact stands that this will increase suicide rates, there will be a conflict of interests in many scenarios and there will be numerous legal cases arising from this if it is assented to.
You posted the bill before, read it in its entirety.

Clause 14 provides that the primary medical practitioner must not provide the assistance if he or she knows that any financial or other advantage is likely to be gained by certain persons participating in the provision of assistance, or their associates, as a result of the death of the patient.

Clause 20 requires the patient to be examined and assessed by an independent psychiatrist or psychologist. The psychiatrist or psychologist must provide to the primary and secondary medical practitioners a report of the assessment. The primary medical practitioner must not provide assistance to the patient under the proposed Act unless the qualified psychiatrist or qualified psychologist makes an assessment that the patient has decision-making capacity in relation to the request for assistance and that the patient’s decision to request the assistance has been made freely, voluntarily and after due consideration.

The fact there may be legal cases is not a reason not to do something and this is not an argument that anyone with a close experience to a lingering, suffering death can or should have without emotion. Emotion is always part of argument, even in law.
Exactly, what if there is no mental capacity to make the decision and it comes down to the family? Then a conflict of interest will arise.
I don't think you read that properly.
"I was on the bus before you painted it yellow."

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Unread post by Cultured Bogan » Sun 22 Oct, 2017 1:16 pm

Milky, I'll likely one day die of heart related illness I've had since birth. As it is I have issues getting through the day without having episodes or experiencing delusion or pain from arrhythmia and low blood pressure. I'm on medications that currently put strain on my liver and kidneys.

The end stage for me is heart failure. At the moment I'm fit, in good condition fo my impairments but one day I'll start retaining fluid, I won't be able to breathe properly and my organs will start to fail. In addition to reduced quantity of life I'll have a reduced quality.

Who are you to tell me when that time comes I can't go out on my own terms? Luckily for me a simple OD on my heart meds will allow a quick and painless exit and circumvent any resistance to euthanasia laws.

I understand the complications about unscrupulous family members knocking off their relatives for a pay off, my wife has dealt with many probate matters and she said you'd be forgiven for thinking some people gave a stuff about the people and were simply counting down the days till they got their payout. What must be understood is that dignity is a broad defined term. Some would say fighting to the last breath is dignified, some would say leaving before you degenerate into a bed ridden shell and forcing yourself and your loved ones to endure the emotional burden is dignified. That definition should be a personal decision and if it is made of sound mind your wishes should be respected.
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Unread post by bathursttiger » Sun 22 Oct, 2017 9:03 pm

Milky wrote:
Sat 21 Oct, 2017 3:56 pm
Strongly oppose Euthanasia.

Hindering the natural death process. Hope it doesn't pass.

I feel for those who have it tough towards the end of their life. However, every way you look at this, it's suicide.
I have to completely disagree with you Milky.
I watch my older brother (who I was extremely close to) lay brain dead in a hospital for 2 weeks.
It was only his ultra fitness that would not let his heart stop working.
The nurses pumped as much Morphine into his as legally allowed to speed up his death.
I suspect that someone very close to him put a pillow over his mouth that ended his and the whole families suffering.
No one should be put through that suffering when there is a solution.
No death is ever easy, especially someone that you really love.
We don't let our pets suffer when they are at the end of there life, but we let our loved ones suffer.
Maybe sometime in the future it will hit home to you when someone close to you is in the same situation.
It's been 27 year and it still hurts.

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