Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

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Cultured Bogan
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Re: Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

Unread post by Cultured Bogan » Fri 18 Aug, 2017 3:07 pm

Abraham wrote:
Fri 18 Aug, 2017 1:19 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 18 Aug, 2017 1:12 pm
You don't think it's important that people with citizenship, and therefore possible allegiances to other nations, should not be able to stand for election?
Agree in principal, but when you're Australian born and bred, and unknowlingly a citizen of a foreign country only because your parent or grandparent was born overseas (or in Canavan's case applied for citizenship behind his back), i think abit of common sense and discretion goes a long way.

I don't have sympathy for the foreign born Greens in this situation though, because anybody with even a minimal IQ would understand that being born overseas means you are probably a citizen of the country you were born in.

The High Court should put an end to this fiasco shortly anyhow.
We accept "unknowingly" because that's what they tell us. We have no idea whether they really didn't know.

Old mate Canavan was born and bred and expects the electorate to believe his mum applied for citizenship in Italy on his behalf? Pull the other one.

S44 doesn't have a provision for those conferred citizenship by parentage. The rules are black and white.

Amend the section if they want, but until it is amended, it must be followed no matter how archaic we believe it to be.

A lot of people know that countries award citizenship based on parentage as well, you'd think that the parties would vet their candidates. Not necessarily an ALP supporter, but it's strange how no ALP pollies have been done, and they've got a reasonable range of ethnicity among their party. Either the LNP muckrakers are rubbish or they actually have decent vetting procedures in place to avoid this sort of thing. Dastyari had to fork out $20K to rescind his Iranian citizenship.
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Unread post by Cultured Bogan » Fri 18 Aug, 2017 3:08 pm

Pawsandclaws wrote:
Fri 18 Aug, 2017 1:52 pm
Abraham wrote:
Fri 18 Aug, 2017 1:19 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 18 Aug, 2017 1:12 pm
You don't think it's important that people with citizenship, and therefore possible allegiances to other nations, should not be able to stand for election?
Agree in principal, but when you're Australian born and bred, and unknowlingly a citizen of a foreign country only because your parent or grandparent was born overseas (or in Canavan's case applied for citizenship behind his back), i think abit of common sense and discretion goes a long way.

I don't have sympathy for the foreign born Greens in this situation though, because anybody with even a minimal IQ would understand that being born overseas means you are probably a citizen of the country you were born in.

The High Court should put an end to this fiasco shortly anyhow.
Ironic really when Xenophon holds himself up as the protector of process but now is refusing to go. Ignorance is no excuse.
As said by Baaaaaaaaaarnaby himself.
I swing like hell but know full well that I won't win the fight, but big man I'm the beta male that's gonna ruin your night...

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Unread post by Sataris » Fri 18 Aug, 2017 4:57 pm

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 18 Aug, 2017 1:12 pm
Geo. wrote:
Fri 18 Aug, 2017 11:59 am
Oooooooooooh Section 44..

Another outdated archaic rule to get all in a flap about...

Forget about Energy Prices a sustainable future, Education, Health Care, an ageing population..who bloody cares as long as your grandfather's uncle's aunty wasn't a Kiwi...

Fair suck of the Sav..and people wander why..
You don't think it's important that people with citizenship, and therefore possible allegiances to other nations, should not be able to stand for election?

I personally don't trust anyone who has dual citizenships. was born overseas or has a strange last name.

Terrorists most likely.
cunno wrote:Ennis is the koala of the NRL.
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Unread post by goldcoast tiger » Fri 18 Aug, 2017 5:03 pm

Pawsandclaws wrote:
Fri 18 Aug, 2017 10:28 am
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Fri 18 Aug, 2017 4:41 am
If we are going to waste money on a plebiscite on whether we can stop two people getting married ot not( not that it's anyone's business except the two people concerned) can we have one on the Burka as well, seeing as our opinion is now valuable to our jelly legged Pollies. (Including the ones who are there illegally elected).

Just a question on the burka . No one has ever given a reasonable reason that I can't go into a bank with a motor bike helmet covering my identity. But I can whack a Burka on and do what ever I like. Double standards ????

Question 2

One other question about the ever expanding numbers of sheepish Kiwis that have infiltrated our parliament over the years.

The current PM has said that dear old Barnaby can re nominate in any by election ( if the High court upholds the Constitution, and rules it's illegal to be in the parliament if he is a dual citizen.
If that is established, (that he's there illegally), wouldn't that mean that He, (and all the others in the same boat), would have been illegally elected at every election that they have contested, and would also have been receiving a bundle of taxpayers money illegally, over their total time in the parliament.including their ridiculously bloated Parliamentary Pension entitlements.
As the law stands now , they are illegally elected, and should have to pay back ALL money received illegally.

As far as I can see that's black and white ,
We're constantly told that ignorance of any law, is not a defence.
But it will be interesting to see how this mob slither out of this one
Actually they should all be sacked anyway, even if it is simply for being so dumb as to not know if they were citizens of another Country. Even those who are using the ever popular Shane Warne excuse " it was Mums fault"
Re Question 2


1. It's only those who are unfortunate enough to be unemployed who are considered guilty until proven innocent by the Conservatives.
2. It's not that the snout is in the trough, it is the length of the snout.
3. The horror, shock, conspiracy and diplomatic incident arose because the born to rule conservatives got found out by the SMH.
4. It's all Labor's fault.

Lastly the National Party changed it's name from the Country Party because most didn't know which country (ies) they were citizens of.
That's funny :D

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Unread post by Abraham » Fri 18 Aug, 2017 5:12 pm

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 18 Aug, 2017 3:07 pm
We accept "unknowingly" because that's what they tell us. We have no idea whether they really didn't know.

Old mate Canavan was born and bred and expects the electorate to believe his mum applied for citizenship in Italy on his behalf? Pull the other one.

S44 doesn't have a provision for those conferred citizenship by parentage. The rules are black and white.

Amend the section if they want, but until it is amended, it must be followed no matter how archaic we believe it to be.

A lot of people know that countries award citizenship based on parentage as well, you'd think that the parties would vet their candidates. Not necessarily an ALP supporter, but it's strange how no ALP pollies have been done, and they've got a reasonable range of ethnicity among their party. Either the LNP muckrakers are rubbish or they actually have decent vetting procedures in place to avoid this sort of thing. Dastyari had to fork out $20K to rescind his Iranian citizenship.
Oh i know what the law says, just making the point the some common sense goes a long way too, when looking at this from a voter's perspective.

Also interesting that each of the people implicated belongs to a minor party. Looks like their processes aren't as robust as the major parties ... they will learn the hard way.


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Unread post by Abraham » Fri 18 Aug, 2017 5:15 pm

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 18 Aug, 2017 3:07 pm
Old mate Canavan was born and bred and expects the electorate to believe his mum applied for citizenship in Italy on his behalf? Pull the other one.
It happens.

My kids probably don't know they are Lebanese citizens. I registered them without needing any permission from them.

And they are third generation Aussies.

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Unread post by Pawsandclaws » Fri 18 Aug, 2017 6:23 pm

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 18 Aug, 2017 3:07 pm
Abraham wrote:
Fri 18 Aug, 2017 1:19 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 18 Aug, 2017 1:12 pm
You don't think it's important that people with citizenship, and therefore possible allegiances to other nations, should not be able to stand for election?
Agree in principal, but when you're Australian born and bred, and unknowlingly a citizen of a foreign country only because your parent or grandparent was born overseas (or in Canavan's case applied for citizenship behind his back), i think abit of common sense and discretion goes a long way.

I don't have sympathy for the foreign born Greens in this situation though, because anybody with even a minimal IQ would understand that being born overseas means you are probably a citizen of the country you were born in.

The High Court should put an end to this fiasco shortly anyhow.
We accept "unknowingly" because that's what they tell us. We have no idea whether they really didn't know.

Old mate Canavan was born and bred and expects the electorate to believe his mum applied for citizenship in Italy on his behalf? Pull the other one.

S44 doesn't have a provision for those conferred citizenship by parentage. The rules are black and white.

Amend the section if they want, but until it is amended, it must be followed no matter how archaic we believe it to be.

A lot of people know that countries award citizenship based on parentage as well, you'd think that the parties would vet their candidates. Not necessarily an ALP supporter, but it's strange how no ALP pollies have been done, and they've got a reasonable range of ethnicity among their party. Either the LNP muckrakers are rubbish or they actually have decent vetting procedures in place to avoid this sort of thing. Dastyari had to fork out $20K to rescind his Iranian citizenship.
The Constitution has served us well CB and only now because a few look like being ejected from the trough it becomes an issue.

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Unread post by formerguest » Fri 18 Aug, 2017 8:25 pm

Abraham wrote:
Fri 18 Aug, 2017 5:15 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 18 Aug, 2017 3:07 pm
Old mate Canavan was born and bred and expects the electorate to believe his mum applied for citizenship in Italy on his behalf? Pull the other one.
It happens.

My kids probably don't know they are Lebanese citizens. I registered them without needing any permission from them.

And they are third generation Aussies.
Also probably smart enough that if they ever had to declare single citizenship to nominate candidacy for a federal political position, that they would at least question the possibility.

On Canavan, whilst I may have missed it, I cannot recall a total denial, rather political/lawyer speak.

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Unread post by Nelson » Fri 18 Aug, 2017 8:45 pm

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 18 Aug, 2017 3:07 pm


S44 doesn't have a provision for those conferred citizenship by parentage. The rules are black and white.

Amend the section if they want, but until it is amended, it must be followed no matter how archaic we believe it to be.
They can't just amend the constitution if they want, that requires a referendum.

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Unread post by Nelson » Fri 18 Aug, 2017 8:55 pm

Pawsandclaws wrote:
Fri 18 Aug, 2017 1:04 pm
Geo. wrote:
Fri 18 Aug, 2017 11:59 am
Oooooooooooh Section 44..

Another outdated archaic rule to get all in a flap about...

Forget about Energy Prices a sustainable future, Education, Health Care, an ageing population..who bloody cares as long as your grandfather's uncle's aunty wasn't a Kiwi...

Fair suck of the Sav..and people wander why..
Simple really, if you want to be in Federal Parliament you be a citizen of Australia only. I don't think this is an unreasonable expectation.

Also, for Joyce, Nash, Canavan, Roberts and Xenophon

"Section 46 of the Constitution of Australia provides that if a Senator or member of the House of Representatives is constitutionally ineligible or disqualified from holding that position, they will be liable to pay any person who sues for it 100 pounds for every day that they have sat."
Section 46 actually provides - "Until the Parliament otherwise provides, any person declared by this Constitution to be incapable of sitting as a senator or as a member of the House of Representatives shall, for every day on which he so sits, be liable to pay the sum of one hundred pounds to any person who sues for it in any court of competent jurisdiction."

The Parliament has otherwise provided with the the Common Informers (Parliamentary Disqualification) Act 1975, section 3 of which states:

Penalty for sitting when disqualified

(1) Any person who, whether before or after the commencement of this Act, has sat as a senator or as a member of the House of Representatives while he or she was a person declared by the Constitution to be incapable of so sitting shall be liable to pay to any person who sues for it in the High Court a sum equal to the total of:

(a) $200 in respect of his or her having so sat on or before the day on which the originating process in the suit is served on him or her; and

(b) $200 for every day, subsequent to that day, on which he or she is proved in the suit to have so sat.

(2) A suit under this section shall not relate to any sitting of a person as a senator or as a member of the House of Representatives at a time earlier than 12 months before the day on which the suit is instituted.

(3) The High Court shall refuse to make an order in a suit under this Act that would, in the opinion of the Court, cause the person against whom it was made to be penalized more than once in respect of any period or day of sitting as a senator or as a member of the House of Representatives.

...so the net result of that is they're liable for $200, plus $200 for every day they continue to sit after a suit has been brought under that Act. I'm looking forward to some pest suing all of these people in the High Court to try and make a name for themselves and a few grand. Funny if they win and funny if they lose and cop a massive legal bill for their attempt at notoriety!

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Unread post by Balmainbred » Fri 18 Aug, 2017 10:23 pm

Maybe at the next setting of the house Derryn hinch can front as a cardinal

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Unread post by Pawsandclaws » Sun 20 Aug, 2017 9:20 am

Read old Nick has a peculiar case of citizenship Xenophony blues. With his taxpayer funded job and perks on the line, it is "appropriate" (according to him) that he remain in Parliament exercising his vote on behalf of Australians. Remember Snout = trough = length of snout.

But who knows, it's all Greek to me.

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Unread post by Cultured Bogan » Mon 21 Aug, 2017 8:15 am

Nelson wrote:
Fri 18 Aug, 2017 8:45 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 18 Aug, 2017 3:07 pm


S44 doesn't have a provision for those conferred citizenship by parentage. The rules are black and white.

Amend the section if they want, but until it is amended, it must be followed no matter how archaic we believe it to be.
They can't just amend the constitution if they want, that requires a referendum.
I know it has to go to referendum, simply stating that until it is changed the rules are black and white.

If you haven't done your due diligence and you get caught out that's your own fault.
I swing like hell but know full well that I won't win the fight, but big man I'm the beta male that's gonna ruin your night...

Fuerza en la adversidad.

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Unread post by Yossarian » Mon 21 Aug, 2017 10:12 am

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Mon 21 Aug, 2017 8:15 am
Nelson wrote:
Fri 18 Aug, 2017 8:45 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 18 Aug, 2017 3:07 pm


S44 doesn't have a provision for those conferred citizenship by parentage. The rules are black and white.

Amend the section if they want, but until it is amended, it must be followed no matter how archaic we believe it to be.
They can't just amend the constitution if they want, that requires a referendum.
I know it has to go to referendum, simply stating that until it is changed the rules are black and white.

If you haven't done your due diligence and you get caught out that's your own fault.
It can be interpreted though and the HC has "weakened" the black and white text to allow dual citizens to be MPs if they've taken reasonable steps to divest themselves of it.

Xenophon and Canavon might have reasonable arguments but Barnaby is stuffed.

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Unread post by Cultured Bogan » Mon 21 Aug, 2017 10:21 am

Yossarian wrote:
Mon 21 Aug, 2017 10:12 am
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Mon 21 Aug, 2017 8:15 am
Nelson wrote:
Fri 18 Aug, 2017 8:45 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 18 Aug, 2017 3:07 pm


S44 doesn't have a provision for those conferred citizenship by parentage. The rules are black and white.

Amend the section if they want, but until it is amended, it must be followed no matter how archaic we believe it to be.
They can't just amend the constitution if they want, that requires a referendum.
I know it has to go to referendum, simply stating that until it is changed the rules are black and white.

If you haven't done your due diligence and you get caught out that's your own fault.
It can be interpreted though and the HC has "weakened" the black and white text to allow dual citizens to be MPs if they've taken reasonable steps to divest themselves of it.

Xenophon and Canavon might have reasonable arguments but Barnaby is stuffed.
Having parents born in foreign nations, you'd think you'd have a look to see whether it's been conferred upon you.
I swing like hell but know full well that I won't win the fight, but big man I'm the beta male that's gonna ruin your night...

Fuerza en la adversidad.

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Unread post by Byron Bay Fan » Mon 21 Aug, 2017 10:27 am

Hey CB,

Corrosive tainted by sin, I'm spilling blood and I can hardly contain it;
Corrosive hallowing the hand, stiffened I eat away, eat into the surface.


your signature line makes you sound like Judas Iscariot trying to gobble a kebab stuffed with 30 pieces of silver.
Malcolm Knox: What has happened this week is a pity for the Tigers, a pity for Jason Taylor and a pity for Robbie Farah, who had achieved more than the Big Four put together but was somehow turned into collateral damage. (SMH 25-26 March, 2017)

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Unread post by Yossarian » Mon 21 Aug, 2017 1:14 pm

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Mon 21 Aug, 2017 10:21 am
Yossarian wrote:
Mon 21 Aug, 2017 10:12 am
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Mon 21 Aug, 2017 8:15 am
Nelson wrote:
Fri 18 Aug, 2017 8:45 pm


They can't just amend the constitution if they want, that requires a referendum.
I know it has to go to referendum, simply stating that until it is changed the rules are black and white.

If you haven't done your due diligence and you get caught out that's your own fault.
It can be interpreted though and the HC has "weakened" the black and white text to allow dual citizens to be MPs if they've taken reasonable steps to divest themselves of it.

Xenophon and Canavon might have reasonable arguments but Barnaby is stuffed.
Having parents born in foreign nations, you'd think you'd have a look to see whether it's been conferred upon you.
NX seems to have considered whether he was Cypriot or Greek but not British. The question is whether being a British Overseas Citizen or whatever it is called is equivalent to being an actual citizen.

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Unread post by Cultured Bogan » Mon 21 Aug, 2017 1:42 pm

Byron Bay Fan wrote:
Mon 21 Aug, 2017 10:27 am
Hey CB,

Corrosive tainted by sin, I'm spilling blood and I can hardly contain it;
Corrosive hallowing the hand, stiffened I eat away, eat into the surface.


your signature line makes you sound like Judas Iscariot trying to gobble a kebab stuffed with 30 pieces of silver.
In the immortal words of Molly, do yourself a favour and look up Static X.

For best results don't listen to it after a bucket bong.
I swing like hell but know full well that I won't win the fight, but big man I'm the beta male that's gonna ruin your night...

Fuerza en la adversidad.

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