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tig_prmz
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Re: Euthanasia legislation passed Holy Moses

Post by tig_prmz » Sun 22 Oct, 2017 9:43 pm

something of a different type, but if you had conceived a child and before 3 months you had 100% confirmation that the child will be severely disabled but "healthy", would you abort?
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Post by Byron Bay Fan » Sun 22 Oct, 2017 11:06 pm

tig_prmz wrote:
Sun 22 Oct, 2017 9:43 pm
something of a different type, but if you had conceived a child and before 3 months you had 100% confirmation that the child will be severely disabled but "healthy", would you abort?
should almost be compulsory. I have a friend who had a son not disabled at all but the brain of a six month old for all his about 70 years if he is still alive now I don't know. Looking after him for about 50 years sent his mother around the bend, having put him in a special home and taking him out again. They could only ever go on holidays in their caravan due to him pooping everywhere etc.and his constant screaming. Well when the mother died the father immediately put him in a special home (where I believe they dosed him all time to sedate him). The father found another wife in the Philippines and lived happily until he died, he told me his second life was his first happiness in about 50 years. His son (my age) told me that the retarded brother ruined their family's life all that time.

I have another friend who has a son with spina bifida - so sad. I think parents should be able to decide if extremely ill children be allowed to continue to survive. It is ultimately their child. If the child gets dumped onto the state it costs a fortune for only a very poor quality of life. Other children suffer many operations before they can even talk or walk and then still have a very limited life and life span - completely unfair to the children as well.
Malcolm Knox: What has happened this week is a pity for the Tigers, a pity for Jason Taylor and a pity for Robbie Farah, who had achieved more than the Big Four put together but was somehow turned into collateral damage. (SMH 25-26 March, 2017)

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Post by formerguest » Sun 22 Oct, 2017 11:15 pm

tig_prmz wrote:
Sun 22 Oct, 2017 9:43 pm
something of a different type, but if you had conceived a child and before 3 months you had 100% confirmation that the child will be severely disabled but "healthy", would you abort?
Severely being the key word, then yes.

Nature often does the job prior to the second trimester itself, but not always.

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Post by bathursttiger » Sun 22 Oct, 2017 11:57 pm

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Sun 22 Oct, 2017 1:16 pm
Milky, I'll likely one day die of heart related illness I've had since birth. As it is I have issues getting through the day without having episodes or experiencing delusion or pain from arrhythmia and low blood pressure. I'm on medications that currently put strain on my liver and kidneys.

The end stage for me is heart failure. At the moment I'm fit, in good condition fo my impairments but one day I'll start retaining fluid, I won't be able to breathe properly and my organs will start to fail. In addition to reduced quantity of life I'll have a reduced quality.

Who are you to tell me when that time comes I can't go out on my own terms? Luckily for me a simple OD on my heart meds will allow a quick and painless exit and circumvent any resistance to euthanasia laws.

I understand the complications about unscrupulous family members knocking off their relatives for a pay off, my wife has dealt with many probate matters and she said you'd be forgiven for thinking some people gave a stuff about the people and were simply counting down the days till they got their payout. What must be understood is that dignity is a broad defined term. Some would say fighting to the last breath is dignified, some would say leaving before you degenerate into a bed ridden shell and forcing yourself and your loved ones to endure the emotional burden is dignified. That definition should be a personal decision and if it is made of sound mind your wishes should be respected.
It shouldn't have to be up to you OD yourself we should have the choice to be helped end the pain and suffering.

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Post by formerguest » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 12:05 am

[quote=bathursttiger post_id=875507 time=1508666629 user_id=1588]
[quote=Milky post_id=875369 time=1508561775 user_id=6197]
Strongly oppose Euthanasia.

Hindering the natural death process. Hope it doesn't pass.

I feel for those who have it tough towards the end of their life. However, every way you look at this, it's suicide.
[/quote]

I have to completely disagree with you Milky.
I watch my older brother (who I was extremely close to) lay brain dead in a hospital for 2 weeks.
It was only his ultra fitness that would not let his heart stop working.
The nurses pumped as much Morphine into his as legally allowed to speed up his death.
I suspect that someone very close to him put a pillow over his mouth that ended his and the whole families suffering.
No one should be put through that suffering when there is a solution.
No death is ever easy, especially someone that you really love.
We don't let our pets suffer when they are at the end of there life, but we let our loved ones suffer.
Maybe sometime in the future it will hit home to you when someone close to you is in the same situation.
It's been 27 year and it still hurts.
[/quote]

The pet and human analogy is understanding that we are in control of the suffering of our pets. Unconditionally loyal friends in the case of some species.

We often know that they are gravely ill or in much pain when we take them to see medical professionals whom we rely on to diagnose and recommend treatment. Sadly sometimes the prognosis is devastating and we are told death is unavoidable in a certain timeline, but may also be informed of great physical pain.

At that point, if able, we look into the eyes of our beloved pets and make a decision for them, as gut wrenching as it may be and often cry many tears (as I am now remembering past goodbyes) as we watch them pass or leave the room because not being able to stay.

We make those decisions based on expert advice because our much loved pets are unable to, just as some make decisions to turn off life support devices for relatives because they are allowed.

To not be able to legally make those same decisions for our terminal loved ones in similar regulated circumstances is ridiculous in a modern society. To not be able to make that same educated decision for yourself is just plain wrong.


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Post by Tiger Watto » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 8:07 am

In relation to the Pay Grab scenario, surely life insurance is null & void if the death is constructed?
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Post by Cultured Bogan » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 9:09 am

bathursttiger wrote:
Sun 22 Oct, 2017 11:57 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Sun 22 Oct, 2017 1:16 pm
Milky, I'll likely one day die of heart related illness I've had since birth. As it is I have issues getting through the day without having episodes or experiencing delusion or pain from arrhythmia and low blood pressure. I'm on medications that currently put strain on my liver and kidneys.

The end stage for me is heart failure. At the moment I'm fit, in good condition fo my impairments but one day I'll start retaining fluid, I won't be able to breathe properly and my organs will start to fail. In addition to reduced quantity of life I'll have a reduced quality.

Who are you to tell me when that time comes I can't go out on my own terms? Luckily for me a simple OD on my heart meds will allow a quick and painless exit and circumvent any resistance to euthanasia laws.

I understand the complications about unscrupulous family members knocking off their relatives for a pay off, my wife has dealt with many probate matters and she said you'd be forgiven for thinking some people gave a stuff about the people and were simply counting down the days till they got their payout. What must be understood is that dignity is a broad defined term. Some would say fighting to the last breath is dignified, some would say leaving before you degenerate into a bed ridden shell and forcing yourself and your loved ones to endure the emotional burden is dignified. That definition should be a personal decision and if it is made of sound mind your wishes should be respected.
It shouldn't have to be up to you OD yourself we should have the choice to be helped end the pain and suffering.
That's true and I agree, but it is an option I have available should I not be "legally" allowed to. Others don't have that open to them and are forced to choose between more violent and painful means versus suffering.
Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest!

Cuando llegue el día, y estoy parado a las puertas del cielo, será Dios pidiendo mi perdón...

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Post by Cultured Bogan » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 9:10 am

Tiger Watto wrote:
Mon 23 Oct, 2017 8:07 am
In relation to the Pay Grab scenario, surely life insurance is null & void if the death is constructed?
Suicide is generally ruled out isn't it? Not sure whether euthanasia would circumvent that as it would technically be carried out by others? As macabre as it sounds it is an interesting scenario. Will the terminally ill be granted an "early pay out" by means of euthanasia or will they be forced to "work" for the money and see it out to the end to make sure their families are financially taken care of?
Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest!

Cuando llegue el día, y estoy parado a las puertas del cielo, será Dios pidiendo mi perdón...

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Post by Nelson » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 9:17 am

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Mon 23 Oct, 2017 9:10 am
Tiger Watto wrote:
Mon 23 Oct, 2017 8:07 am
In relation to the Pay Grab scenario, surely life insurance is null & void if the death is constructed?
Suicide is generally ruled out isn't it? Not sure whether euthanasia would circumvent that as it would technically be carried out by others? As macabre as it sounds it is an interesting scenario. Will the terminally ill be granted an "early pay out" by means of euthanasia or will they be forced to "work" for the money and see it out to the end to make sure their families are financially taken care of?
The market will decide. If insurers choose not to pay in those circumstances you can be sure other insurers will and that's where the business will go. The threshhold is two medical professionals certifying that they are likely to die in the next 12 months so these are payouts that are going to have to be made at some point in the near future anyway.

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Post by Cultured Bogan » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 9:21 am

Nelson wrote:
Mon 23 Oct, 2017 9:17 am
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Mon 23 Oct, 2017 9:10 am
Tiger Watto wrote:
Mon 23 Oct, 2017 8:07 am
In relation to the Pay Grab scenario, surely life insurance is null & void if the death is constructed?
Suicide is generally ruled out isn't it? Not sure whether euthanasia would circumvent that as it would technically be carried out by others? As macabre as it sounds it is an interesting scenario. Will the terminally ill be granted an "early pay out" by means of euthanasia or will they be forced to "work" for the money and see it out to the end to make sure their families are financially taken care of?
The market will decide. If insurers choose not to pay in those circumstances you can be sure other insurers will and that's where the business will go. The threshhold is two medical professionals certifying that they are likely to die in the next 12 months so these are payouts that are going to have to be made at some point in the near future anyway.
Ah OK, thanks for the clarification.
Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest!

Cuando llegue el día, y estoy parado a las puertas del cielo, será Dios pidiendo mi perdón...

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Post by Abraham » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 12:52 pm

Personally i am opposed, but i would not want to stop another person from making taking this option if they sincerely wanted to.

So as long as appropriately strict measures are put in place to minimise the risk of people being wrongly euthanised, under instruction from either greedy family members or over-strectched health departments, then i wouldn't want to tell another person what to do in this situation.

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Post by TCL » Tue 24 Oct, 2017 7:42 am

If the person is terminal and suffering, they should be given the choice.

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Post by Byron Bay Fan » Tue 24 Oct, 2017 7:54 am

If no choice I am quite happy enough to die out in the surf on a good strong day, could not think of a better way. It almost happened once and did not frighten me at all, no panic just took all in my stride - was exciting actually.
Malcolm Knox: What has happened this week is a pity for the Tigers, a pity for Jason Taylor and a pity for Robbie Farah, who had achieved more than the Big Four put together but was somehow turned into collateral damage. (SMH 25-26 March, 2017)

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Post by Cultured Bogan » Tue 24 Oct, 2017 8:42 am

Byron Bay Fan wrote:
Tue 24 Oct, 2017 7:54 am
If no choice I am quite happy enough to die out in the surf on a good strong day, could not think of a better way. It almost happened once and did not frighten me at all, no panic just took all in my stride - was exciting actually.
Yeah I've been caught in a rip before and exciting would be the last word I'd use to describe that experience.
Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest!

Cuando llegue el día, y estoy parado a las puertas del cielo, será Dios pidiendo mi perdón...

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Post by Byron Bay Fan » Tue 24 Oct, 2017 10:56 am

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Tue 24 Oct, 2017 8:42 am
Byron Bay Fan wrote:
Tue 24 Oct, 2017 7:54 am
If no choice I am quite happy enough to die out in the surf on a good strong day, could not think of a better way. It almost happened once and did not frighten me at all, no panic just took all in my stride - was exciting actually.
Yeah I've been caught in a rip before and exciting would be the last word I'd use to describe that experience.
Mine was not in a rip they are scary. I was out very far and deep when Maroubra was closed due to being big and dangerous, was completely buggered and went down 3 times and only came up twice - until somehow regained consciousness in the gully completely okay not spitting water or anything, all calm about 50 yards further in than I estimated being. As absolutely no one else on the beach I have no witnesses to what happened. Just got out of water and collapsed until incoming tide woke me up. I was no longer scared of death due to that.
Malcolm Knox: What has happened this week is a pity for the Tigers, a pity for Jason Taylor and a pity for Robbie Farah, who had achieved more than the Big Four put together but was somehow turned into collateral damage. (SMH 25-26 March, 2017)

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Post by hammertime » Wed 25 Oct, 2017 9:15 pm

So, the NBN huh?
Maybe we'd should dredge up our debates on this topic from a few years ago.

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Post by Pawsandclaws » Wed 25 Oct, 2017 9:45 pm

Michaela Cash just threw her senior media advisor under the bus after denying five times to the Senate Estimates Committee that she or her office informed the media about the raid. There are sources this senior media advisor who admitted to telling the press about the raid used to work with the media adviser in the ROC in Dennis Napthines' Office.

Apparently Cash was requested to have her COS secure all PCs, Laptops, mobiles etc for investigation (raid ;)). She refused.

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Post by formerguest » Wed 25 Oct, 2017 11:17 pm

Pawsandclaws wrote:
Wed 25 Oct, 2017 9:45 pm
Michaela Cash just threw her senior media advisor under the bus after denying five times to the Senate Estimates Committee that she or her office informed the media about the raid. There are sources this senior media advisor who admitted to telling the press about the raid used to work with the media adviser in the ROC in Dennis Napthines' Office.

Apparently Cash was requested to have her COS secure all PCs, Laptops, mobiles etc for investigation (raid ;)). She refused.
Question time for parliament was in the background on Sky for me this arvo and the questions indicated that they already knew where the culprit worked.

This whole never ending witch hunt episode is just another example of the second most incompetent federal government that I can recall, with the previous iteration with Abbott the worst, yet he is still somewhat in control and .......... things up left right and centre.

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