Here's Your Chance Campbelltown

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Cultured Bogan
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Re: Here's Your Chance Campbelltown

Post by Cultured Bogan » Tue 29 May, 2012 6:37 pm

cochise wrote:
2041 wrote:
watersider wrote:
Cultured Bogan wrote: FFS, we can't have it both ways... If you want more games played at CSS and LO, you'll have to pay a premium. Like many others have said, $30 to watch 160 mins of Rugby League over four hours is better than paying $20 to watch the latest 80 minute Hollywood offering which these days seems to be a remake, a comic book adaptation or a banal piece of crap.
$30 is too much. I don't buy your movie ticket comparison. I think that movie tickets cost too much as well. I don't think you can say, 'they inflate their prices so we should do the same'.

What is the point of a club if the supporters of that club don't even feel like they can afford to come to games? The club gouges its supporters with new jerseys every 3 months, steep ticket prices, ridiculously expensive soggy pies, average big screens and sponsors promotions that they pass as halftime 'entertainment'. And we cop it because we love the club, but it isn't a good deal and the fans deserve better.

The club justifies its prices because it is a 'premium product', but it isn't worth it if the stadium is half full. The ticket pricing is also a poor financial decision because it ignores the long term consequences of inflated prices. If prices are too high then you cut out a generation of fans, and that generation doesn't bring their kids to the game and none of them then buy jerseys and merchandise. So, it is short term thinking which has got the club in the position to get a crowd of only 13k despite everything being in place for a cracker game. Does anyone dispute the fact that the price of a ticket prevented some (and probably many) from coming to the game? And what happens when we don't have benji Marshall anymore? Rugby League is digging itself a massive hole by treating its fans so poorly.

Wests tigers should cut the price of GA tickets and they should offer free or dirt cheap tickets to u/16 kids and they should do something to make food a viable option at matches. When they start getting too many people coming to games then it is fair enough to start thinking about raising the price of a ticket. But, the prices they are charging are prohibitive and this is working against the interests of rugby league. A rugby league club is a business, but its business is based on building its fan base and winning premierships. We are not Warner Bros and we are not even Souths (who are privately owned), so why should the club treat the fans so poorly?

I think all this crap about community outreach and improving marketing is peripheral to the key issue. Drop the prices and watch the crowds improve, it is a simple formula.
Look, I'm sorry, but if $30 is more than the Tigers are worth to you then I don't need you as a fan. You're not going to be there when they're crap again, you're not going to show up when it's cold or raining or the oppo are too bad or too good. $30, with all respect to people who are really struggling, is not that much money.

On the other points:
New jerseys: don't buy them if you don't want them. I've got one Tigers jersey and I'm not short of cash. I don't like the ones they've used for the past season and a half, so I haven't bought one. Am I 'less of a fan' because of that? No.
Ridiculously expensive soggy pies: take a sandwich for goodness sake. Or eat before the game. Can't you go 90 minutes without eating? Sunday was a 3pm kick off - what meal time did that cover?
Average big screens: cry me a river. If I wanted to watch the game on TV I'd stay at home.
Sponsors promotions that they pass as halftime 'entertainment': sorry, I care about this why? What do you expect for your $30? The best rugby league players in the world plus 12 minutes of U2 during oranges? I generally spend half time whingeing to my mates about how crap we've been first dig anyway, I don't care what's going on on the pitch.

Mate who the hell do you think you are. Accusing people who cannot afford the $30 as not being a real fan. My father has supported this team for more than 60 years, he has evry right to feel that the prices of tickets are too much. I believe you are the type of supporter we can do with out.

The comparisons to movies is not an approppriate comparison. The movie is not on at home for free,
It can be with a ADSL connection and a file sharing client Cochise, so it is an appropriate comparison. Just like if it were on Fox, you could easily find an illegal stream to watch if you don't have/can't afford Foxtel.

It also doesn't matter whether you've supported a team for 60 seconds or 60 years, when you happen to be born has no bearing on whether your opinion holds any more weight than anyone else's.

He (2041,) also said in a following post that his point obviously didn't apply to people who can't afford it.
"This club means a lot to me and I really love this club, I love playing here, I love playing with all of the boys, it's what I've known for pretty much all of my life and I'm happy to be here." - Luke Brooks.

Cuando llegue el día, y estoy parado a las puertas del cielo, será Dios pidiendo mi perdón...


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Post by cochise » Tue 29 May, 2012 6:42 pm

nor does how much you earn. He wasa the one who stated if $30 is too much your not a real fan.

Your comparison is still not valid as it is illegal to download movies, its not illegal to watch the footy at home, but nice try
Last edited by cochise on Tue 29 May, 2012 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Cultured Bogan » Tue 29 May, 2012 6:52 pm

cochise wrote:nor does how much you earn. He wasa the one who stated if $30 is too much your not a real fan.

Your comparison is still not valid as it is illegal to download movies, its not illegal to watch them footy at home, but nice try
You think that the illegality precludes people from being able to access it? No, it doesn't.
"This club means a lot to me and I really love this club, I love playing here, I love playing with all of the boys, it's what I've known for pretty much all of my life and I'm happy to be here." - Luke Brooks.

Cuando llegue el día, y estoy parado a las puertas del cielo, será Dios pidiendo mi perdón...

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Post by cochise » Tue 29 May, 2012 7:03 pm

Are you saying the fact it is illegal to download a movie does not stop some people from doing it, of course it does. So your comparison is still not valid, but you are welcome to keep trying.

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Post by cochise » Tue 29 May, 2012 7:09 pm

I also never said that someon who has supported the team for longer has more right to an opinion than someone else. I said that he has every right for his opinion. I was also being a smart arse with the comment that I believe that he is the type of support we can do without, I was using is words against him, but that style of humour does not come across in writing.


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Post by innsaneink » Tue 29 May, 2012 7:59 pm

Gotta love people who can determine just how much other people can afford or not...

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Post by innsaneink » Tue 29 May, 2012 8:03 pm

Eddie wrote:
innsaneink wrote:
Something about footy after Origins too historically the crowds are often poor.....and this weekend across the board is no exception.



Crowd average Round 12: 12,784
Personally I think that is clutching at straws a bit. Everything was in place for 18K today. Whatever the club is doing, the need to do more. WHat sort of crowds are going to turn up for our night games there when you can only draw 13K on a perfect Sunday?
Clutching at straws my a---
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... 1zeav.html
Been happening for a while now

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Post by Cultured Bogan » Tue 29 May, 2012 8:35 pm

cochise wrote:Are you saying the fact it is illegal to download a movie does not stop some people from doing it, of course it does. So your comparison is still not valid, but you are welcome to keep trying.
Yes that is what I'm saying... :roll:

My point is the legalities are not an issue. People can and will do it ergo people can watch a movie at home for free when it's at the cinema.

The whole point is lost on you anyway, so I have no interest in debating it further.
"This club means a lot to me and I really love this club, I love playing here, I love playing with all of the boys, it's what I've known for pretty much all of my life and I'm happy to be here." - Luke Brooks.

Cuando llegue el día, y estoy parado a las puertas del cielo, será Dios pidiendo mi perdón...

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Post by Knuckles » Tue 29 May, 2012 8:50 pm

innsaneink wrote:Gotta love people who can determine just how much other people can afford or not...
Yes

It's $30 if you go on your own .... Most fans don't go on their own hence it can be an expensive day out. Throw in two kids who like to be fed at the game and I am sure it is easy to spend north of $100 which is expensive for someone on a single income and a mortgage.

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Post by GNR4LIFE » Tue 29 May, 2012 8:59 pm

cochise wrote:Are you saying the fact it is illegal to download a movie does not stop some people from doing it, of course it does. So your comparison is still not valid, but you are welcome to keep trying.
i lol'd at this comment

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Post by cochise » Tue 29 May, 2012 9:47 pm

Cultured Bogan wrote:
cochise wrote:Are you saying the fact it is illegal to download a movie does not stop some people from doing it, of course it does. So your comparison is still not valid, but you are welcome to keep trying.
Yes that is what I'm saying... :roll:

My point is the legalities are not an issue. People can and will do it ergo people can watch a movie at home for free when it's at the cinema.

The whole point is lost on you anyway, so I have no interest in debating it further.
How is the point lost on me, you can not compare going to the movies to going to the football, when the football is readily available at home for free and legally. You might aswell say that because the movies are easy to sneak into that they are also available for free.

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Post by Cultured Bogan » Tue 29 May, 2012 10:05 pm

cochise wrote:
Cultured Bogan wrote:
cochise wrote:Are you saying the fact it is illegal to download a movie does not stop some people from doing it, of course it does. So your comparison is still not valid, but you are welcome to keep trying.
Yes that is what I'm saying... :roll:

My point is the legalities are not an issue. People can and will do it ergo people can watch a movie at home for free when it's at the cinema.

The whole point is lost on you anyway, so I have no interest in debating it further.
How is the point lost on me, you can not compare going to the movies to going to the football, when the football is readily available at home for free and legally. You might aswell say that because the movies are easy to sneak into that they are also available for free.
Refer to my last post.
"This club means a lot to me and I really love this club, I love playing here, I love playing with all of the boys, it's what I've known for pretty much all of my life and I'm happy to be here." - Luke Brooks.

Cuando llegue el día, y estoy parado a las puertas del cielo, será Dios pidiendo mi perdón...

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Post by watersider » Tue 29 May, 2012 10:23 pm

Cultured Bogan wrote: That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. You make some valid points but I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. My reference to the movie ticket pricing wasn't that WT are given carte blanche to rip the fans off because movie tickets are expensive but moreso "look what Hoyts offers you for $20, and look what LO/CSS offers you for $30."

Drop the prices by all means, if it's financially viable. If it's not, then we will have to look at moving to a larger stadium full time in order to drop prices. I don't expect WT to run at a loss.
I'll leave the film ticket argument, that seems to have gone off on a very different tangent then what was being discussed previously.

I think the idea that the club needs to find bigger stadiums if the club is going to drop the price of tickets is contrary to the overall point of my post. Firstly, we don't need bigger stadiums because there is only one ground that regularly reaches near capacity. Secondly, the idea behind dropping prices is about giving fans access to something they will want to come back to. Homebush is a rubbish stadium for club games and should never be considered a viable option.

I think gameday is an access point for fans to see the club. While gate receipts are obvious of vital importance to clubs, it is only one stream of income in a much more sophisticated business these days. Essentially, I believe that if you drop the price of general admission you would increase the size of your home crowds (is that a ridiculous idea?). I believe that any loss that stems from this drop in price is countered by the stronger connection the club has developed with its fan base. If you can create a culture of getting to matches you also improve sales on merchandise, food and you strengthen a fans commitment to the team. This can lead to that fan bringing more people to the game and building the supporter base overall. If you have a prohibitive ticket price then you weaken the connection a fan has to the club; this has long term consequences for the club and leads to a lack of growth in the supporter base. I believe most clubs have stupidly overvalued their tickets which is leading to very poor crowds. That is why I am particularly keen to see very cheap tickets for kids u/16, because your not going to get much money from them at this stage but you hope that they are familiar enough with going to matches that when they get older and can afford to attend matches they will be interested in doing so. At this point we have too many fans content to watch the game at home. This is bad for the club.

You'd think that the NRL would catch onto this and would subsidise clubs to drop the price of tickets but because they have been owned by foxtel, it is obviously counter to their interests to do so. More bums on seats at home watching the footy means higher revenue raised from advertising for the footy rights they (foxtel) buy at a special mates rates price point. I'm glad that the Commision has come into the game, but I am disappointed that they haven't raised this as a significant issue. Rugby League is doing really well in everything except the size of crowds. This is a much bigger problem then people are willing to accept.

Bigger stadiums is a poor solution, dropping prices makes sense.

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Post by Benjirific » Tue 29 May, 2012 10:28 pm

Gary Bakerloo wrote:
Alf Duguid wrote:Certainly the point made yesterday by Brad Walter in the Herald is a valid one in relation to Origin.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... 1zeav.html
I think that article just about puts the nail in the coffin of this thread. We can't deny our club can be susceptible to general factors impacting the entire NRL and it looks like this has occurred over the weekend. From my own experience, I will always watch the live Friday night game, but I didn't watch it on Friday. Not sure why, it may have been because it looked an ordinary game especially in relation to Wednesday night, but I just could not be bothered on Friday evening.

The crowd was low by Wests Tigers standards, but we still had the biggest crowd of all the Sydney games against a team with no away fans. It actually reinforces the claims of Campbelltown to retain an NRL presence and in answering the ludicrous title of the thread, Campbelltown has taken its "chance".
In my opinion, all costs aside, Campbelltown has NOT taken it's chance.

If the cost is too much for some people, then I'm guessing they would choose one game from the 4 which they could go to. We've won 4 in a row, playing the side coming 4th, 2 of the best players in the world, sunny Sunday afternoon, Robbie coming off a great Origin performance, we should be packing this place out.

People who complain about others not travelling, that is irrelevant. There should be 18,000+ local Tigers fans who can afford and have the ability to go to this game, let alone others who will travel to the game regardless.

I believe Campbelltown is a key part of the future of this club, but I can't see how the club can move more games there, from a financial or other point of view, if people don't turn up. I hope when we get another of these Sunday arvo games against the Roosters at Leichhardt, we pack the place out. Then again when we play the Panthers on the Sat night. I used to be proud of the fact we had the best crowds in Sydney, but unfortunately we can't say that anymore. Lets get out and support the club people!

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Post by watersider » Tue 29 May, 2012 10:51 pm

2041 wrote: Look, I'm sorry, but if $30 is more than the Tigers are worth to you then I don't need you as a fan. You're not going to be there when they're crap again, you're not going to show up when it's cold or raining or the oppo are too bad or too good. $30, with all respect to people who are really struggling, is not that much money.

On the other points:
New jerseys: don't buy them if you don't want them. I've got one Tigers jersey and I'm not short of cash. I don't like the ones they've used for the past season and a half, so I haven't bought one. Am I 'less of a fan' because of that? No.
Ridiculously expensive soggy pies: take a sandwich for goodness sake. Or eat before the game. Can't you go 90 minutes without eating? Sunday was a 3pm kick off - what meal time did that cover?
Average big screens: cry me a river. If I wanted to watch the game on TV I'd stay at home.
Sponsors promotions that they pass as halftime 'entertainment': sorry, I care about this why? What do you expect for your $30? The best rugby league players in the world plus 12 minutes of U2 during oranges? I generally spend half time whingeing to my mates about how crap we've been first dig anyway, I don't care what's going on on the pitch.
I love the argument that if you don't come to games then you're not a true fan. Are you sure you are selective enough though? I think not only should a fan be required to attend matches (if they want to be a true fan), but they must also spend $50 a week at the pokies at one of four select venues. And they must also spend five hours a week (minimum) on here ensuring they post inane garbage about how Sheens should be sacked and Moltzen must be dropped (or else they will stop supporting the club). Only then should a fan be able to say: 'I am a Wests Tigers supporter.'

The truth is, it doesn't matter how much of a fan someone is because it isn't a competition. You support the club? great. You don't? okay. The point of my argument is that $30 is prohibitive to some people who would otherwise come to games. If you want to say: 'stuff them because they don't care enough', then that is fine. But, the club certainly can't be so complacent.

You make a fair point about the grievances I raised about the match day experience. I hope you noted that I reccommended only that prices be dropped for GA, u/16 kids get in free or very cheap and that food be made more affordable. I made no requests for U2 at halftime, but I just wanted to point out that the treatment of fans once they get into the ground doesn't exactly encourage the mildly interested fan to come back (but you don't care about them anyway because they are not welcome in your exclusive little club-so I suppose we should just dismiss those concerns). So while I don't care about match day experience items that I mentioned, and I'm perfectly happy bringing food to the game or eating before or after a match, I just think it is worth reflecting on whether or not the club SHOULD attempt to gouge its fans so flagrantly once it gets them into the ground.

I also think that while anyone can probably deal with a one off $30 purchase, we are not talking about one off purchases. We are talking about a fan coming to the majority of matches, and that $30 ticket becomes a significant figure to many low income earners (who are also probably our biggest market). Add to this that many people have families and I don't think it is a stretch to say that $30 is expensive for a ticket. But, I suppose you don't think it is expensive so everyone should probably be able to afford it.

This idea that we are watching 'the best rugby league players in the world' is a bit ridiculous as well. Say instead 'just about the only rugby league players in the world' and you are getting more accurate.

So I've tried to argue that $30 is getting in the way of bring a fan into the fold. You've said we don't need fans who won't cough up $30 because that price isn't expensive. It comes down to whether you believe that $30 is prohibitive to fans who would otherwise come to a game. I certainly think that is the case for many fans. You are not willing to classify these people as 'fans'. So be it.

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Post by cochise » Tue 29 May, 2012 10:57 pm

The stupid thing in this whole debate is the fact I was extremely disappointed in the crowd on Sunday and agreed with most of the points the people I am now disagree with put forward. I just got put offside by people claiming that if $30 is too much then you are not a fan of the club. That is incredibly disrespectful to a lot of people.

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Post by GNR4LIFE » Tue 29 May, 2012 11:07 pm

cochise wrote:
Cultured Bogan wrote:
cochise wrote:Are you saying the fact it is illegal to download a movie does not stop some people from doing it, of course it does. So your comparison is still not valid, but you are welcome to keep trying.
Yes that is what I'm saying... :roll:

My point is the legalities are not an issue. People can and will do it ergo people can watch a movie at home for free when it's at the cinema.

The whole point is lost on you anyway, so I have no interest in debating it further.
How is the point lost on me, you can not compare going to the movies to going to the football, when the football is readily available at home for free and legally. You might aswell say that because the movies are easy to sneak into that they are also available for free.
Get with the times mate. Downloading is as common watching a movie on TV wether you have a problem with the legalities or not

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Post by cochise » Tue 29 May, 2012 11:36 pm

GNR4LIFE wrote:
cochise wrote:
Cultured Bogan wrote:
cochise wrote:Are you saying the fact it is illegal to download a movie does not stop some people from doing it, of course it does. So your comparison is still not valid, but you are welcome to keep trying.
Yes that is what I'm saying... :roll:

My point is the legalities are not an issue. People can and will do it ergo people can watch a movie at home for free when it's at the cinema.

The whole point is lost on you anyway, so I have no interest in debating it further.
How is the point lost on me, you can not compare going to the movies to going to the football, when the football is readily available at home for free and legally. You might aswell say that because the movies are easy to sneak into that they are also available for free.
Get with the times mate. Downloading is as common watching a movie on TV wether you have a problem with the legalities or not
I dont have a problem with it, I do it all the time, but to say it as common or as easy as watching a movie or sport (which is the comparison being made) on tv is simply not true.

This whole tangent is so far of the topic and the only reason I raised it in the 1st place was to highlight the fact that people comparing ticket prices between the movies and football are not comparing apples with apples.

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