Same sex marriage debate...

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Masterton
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Re: Same sex marriage debate...

Unread post by Masterton » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:36 am

Munk wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:00 pm
Look at the discrimination Milo Yiannopolous is copping in Australia.
Tolerant society? Everyone is entitled to an opinion? I think not.
Everyone IS entitled to an opinion. Other people are just as entitled and allowed to yell about it in the street.
"I was on the bus before you painted it yellow."


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Unread post by goldcoast tiger » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:29 am

Abraham wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 6:57 am
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:39 pm

Sorry but there’s no hypocrisy at all:
Bakers and Florists can think what they like about gay people getting married.just as Someone who doesnt want to associate with coloured people doesn’t have to go to their place for lunch, they just cannot actively discriminate against them.

People will still think whatever they want to think,
These people who want all these discriminating laws added,will probably never have to officiate at a gay wedding, or make a cake for them Anyway .
For one thing who would really want someone there who dosnt want their marriage to happen.
And there’s be plenty of more enlightened Bakers who would be willing to take the
Extra customers that the religious few will let go.

The people complaining now will probably never stop complaining , but there’s another way of looking at it .
A lot of Gay people are Fireman, Police, medical workers, surgeons Ambos,ect.
How would one of these over zealous Christians, Muslims, or any other ones feel, if they are lying in a crashed car, and one of these same rescue “Gays” decided that he didn’t want to help them and possibly save their life, because they discriminated against gay people,

That’s the thing, they would never do that , they’d go ahead and do their job and not give a thought about what sort of person the victim is.
Its a pity that the Bakers and Florists don’t just Stop and think about some of the real problems in the world, and accept that a vote was taken and lost.
I think that it’s safe to say that no one will end up in Hell because he or she cooked a Lamington for a gay wedding, in fact I think that we could gaurantee that.
Sorry to say, but this post just demonstrates that you are coming at this from a place of total ignorance. I'd say you don't know many Christians, and if you do, you haven't taken time to understand their perspective before commenting on what you 'think' their perspective is.

Just quickly, to point out the obvious flaws in your post:

For one thing who would really want someone there who dosnt want their marriage to happen.

Gay activists, that's who. A massive number of these cases in Europe and the US have been brought about by gay couples who actively sought out Christian businesses, knowing they would not participate, just so they could take legal action against them. This is exactly what will happen here shortly, without any doubt whatsoever.


A lot of Gay people are Fireman, Police, medical workers, surgeons Ambos,ect.
How would one of these over zealous Christians, Muslims, or any other ones feel, if they are lying in a crashed car, and one of these same rescue “Gays” decided that he didn’t want to help them and possibly save their life, because they discriminated against gay people,


Christians have no problem with gay people. Period.

The only issue of concern is to do with Homosexual sex, which the Church looks at in the same way as Heterosexual sex outside of Marriage. Because it is not performed between husband and wife with the intent to create new life, we consider it to be a deviation from the true purpose of sexual intercourse. Thats it.

Someone being attracted to people of the same sex in not considered to be sinful at all. We believe that gay people are created in the image of God, and that God doesn't make mistakes. So where your fireman analogy comes from .... ??? Wow.

I think that it’s safe to say that no one will end up in Hell because he or she cooked a Lamington for a gay wedding, in fact I think that we could gaurantee that.

Completely and utterly besides the point. Forget about gay weddings and florists, its a simple matter of freedom.

You are somebody that believes your freedom comes from Malcolm Turnbull. You believe that people should be 'forced', under threat of law, to participate involuntarily in transactions that violate their free-will.

When you give a government that type of power over your life, the day will come when you will be at the other end of the stick, and it will be your freedoms that are attacked because someone in a position of power deems that their interests are greater than yours. When you leave it to public servants to determine who its ok to discriminate against, and who its not ok to discriminate against, based on their personal opinions and biases, you are in very dangerous territory. And that's what you are not able, or willing, to understand.

So Christians have no problem with gay people???
Oh that’s right , as long as they don’t have sex.
I can also promise you that anyone who goes to a gay wedding wil not be asked to indulge in homosexual sex.

Ok so now you want to forget about Gay weddings,but that’s a big part of the whinging thatbhas gone on ever since the vote was announced to be happening.

You seem to be terrified about the Government taking away freedoms, got news for you,
Most freedoms come with guidelines ( laws, as to how far people can go, and what they can do. You’re jumping up and down because you can’t discriminate against a group of people because of what they do in the privacy of their bedrooms( at least I hope that’s where they do it)
If they’re not going to bonk at the church or at the reception, you , and the Florists & Bakers should have no problems’ in fact both those people won’t even have to be at the wedding,

My reference to gay firman etc, was just to point out your hypocrisy.
To put it simpler,
You say christians have nothing against the gay community,
It’s the type of sex that they indulge in that is a sin,
But you wouldn’t mind a gay rescue worker saving your life even if he was going straight home and having gay sex.
Just a tad hypocritical,

And as for your comment that I mustn’t know many Christians, well you’re wrong about that.
I know quite a few, but none of them are screaming because two people who love each other
Can now get married, most of them even the ones who don’t go to church any more, live their life by Christian standards , but have the sense to know that you can be gay and still be a Christian and a good person.

They’re just not fanatics about it like some are.
My daughter used to sing a lot in one of the local churches, but left after a while after realising how stage managed the whole thing was,and how money was the main driver in religion.

You burble on about your freedoms being taken away from you by Govts.and politicians.
But what’s the difference when Christians fanatics mindlessly follow the laws of a fictitious man in the sky , who has never been seen by any person ever, and has caused more wars than any other single identity, (ficticious, or not)
You are living your life bound by laws that restrict almost everything that you do
Along with the laws that govern us in this country,

why are you so scared of Not being able to discriminate against the Gay Community
I hate to tell you that there are even some Christians who have gay sex,and even some who run churches and religious gatherings :o

Anyway, it looks like all the arguing is for nothing, by the look of the story in the papers, the Bill will go ahead with no alterations, they have the numbers.

A win for common sense! Now we ‘l just have to have a very strong umbrella, because the sky is about to fall .

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Unread post by Abraham » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:09 am

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:29 am

So Christians have no problem with gay people???
Oh that’s right , as long as they don’t have sex.
I can also promise you that anyone who goes to a gay wedding wil not be asked to indulge in homosexual sex.
You miss the point.
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:29 am
You seem to be terrified about the Government taking away freedoms, got news for you,
Most freedoms come with guidelines ( laws, as to how far people can go, and what they can do. You’re jumping up and down because you can’t discriminate against a group of people because of what they do in the privacy of their bedrooms( at least I hope that’s where they do it)
If they’re not going to bonk at the church or at the reception, you , and the Florists & Bakers should have no problems’ in fact both those people won’t even have to be at the wedding,
You miss the point.
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:29 am
My reference to gay firman etc, was just to point out your hypocrisy.
To put it simpler,
You say christians have nothing against the gay community,
It’s the type of sex that they indulge in that is a sin,
But you wouldn’t mind a gay rescue worker saving your life even if he was going straight home and having gay sex.
Just a tad hypocritical,
You miss the point.
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:29 am
And as for your comment that I mustn’t know many Christians, well you’re wrong about that.
I know quite a few, but none of them are screaming because two people who love each other
Can now get married, most of them even the ones who don’t go to church any more, live their life by Christian standards , but have the sense to know that you can be gay and still be a Christian and a good person.
You miss the point.
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:29 am
You burble on about your freedoms being taken away from you by Govts.and politicians.
But what’s the difference when Christians fanatics mindlessly follow the laws of a fictitious man in the sky , who has never been seen by any person ever, and has caused more wars than any other single identity, (ficticious, or not)
You miss the point. But still managed to insert completely false information, considering Atheists killed more people during the 20th Century alone, than all the wars of the previous 19 Centuries combined.
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:29 am
why are you so scared of Not being able to discriminate against the Gay Community
I hate to tell you that there are even some Christians who have gay sex,and even some who run churches and religious gatherings :o

Anyway, it looks like all the arguing is for nothing, by the look of the story in the papers, the Bill will go ahead with no alterations, they have the numbers.

A win for common sense! Now we ‘l just have to have a very strong umbrella, because the sky is about to fall .

If i didn't know better ... i'd say you miss entire the point.

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Unread post by magpiecol » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 1:42 pm

Same sex marriage advocates should front a Muslim Bakery and ask them to bake a cake for them. When they say "no", as they will, take them to court. Now that I would really like to see.

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Unread post by Go You Good Things » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 2:27 pm

magpiecol wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 1:42 pm
Same sex marriage advocates should front a Muslim Bakery and ask them to bake a cake for them. When they say "no", as they will, take them to court. Now that I would really like to see.
Yeah Col, I'd pay to see that too !
cochise, you make some very logical points in your recent posts. But because you don't agree with the "vast" majority, soon you will be called a moron.
The learned and tolerant here don't take too kindly to having to tolerate opinions that differ to their own.
And when you don't agree with them . . . well, you are a moron.


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Unread post by Harvey » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 5:21 pm

Masterton wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:36 am
Munk wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:00 pm
Look at the discrimination Milo Yiannopolous is copping in Australia.
Tolerant society? Everyone is entitled to an opinion? I think not.
Everyone IS entitled to an opinion. Other people are just as entitled and allowed to yell about it in the street.
And what should happen when yelling about it boils over to assaulting police or attacking and ripping the clothes of a former prime ministers gay sister?

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Unread post by magpiecol » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 5:22 pm

Masterton wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:36 am
Munk wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:00 pm
Look at the discrimination Milo Yiannopolous is copping in Australia.
Tolerant society? Everyone is entitled to an opinion? I think not.
Everyone IS entitled to an opinion. Other people are just as entitled and allowed to yell about it in the street.
They can yell all they like. It's when they start throwing rocks, urine and other things that I draw the line.
And don't get me started about how they treat the Police.

If the left did not have double standards, they would not have standards at all.

:brick: :brick:

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Unread post by cochise » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:10 pm

Abraham wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:11 am
cochise wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:29 am

There is no get out of jail free clause in the bible for not following and respecting the rule of government, the bible states that the government was created by god and is acting on his behalf. That passage was written under the rule of the Roman emperor Nero, a man who set fire to rome and blamed on the Christian and still Paul wrote that the governments rule, Nero's rule was to be respected and followed.
You can argue that Christians are not compelled to participate in action because they are legal but they are compelled to not discriminate if that action is illegal and they are compelled to accept and rejoice in the consequence for breaking the law when they refuse to participate. Just like when John and Peter were flogged for disobeying an order not to teach in gods name. They didn't rebel, they accepted their punishment and in fact rejoiced in as they were suffering due to their obeying God. So if they law passes people who refuse to marry gay people due to religious beliefs will just have to accept their consequences because that is what the bible teaches us?
I got lost mid-way through your post, so not sure exactly what your saying at the start of the second paragraph? People are compelled to obey the law, and then rejoice for breaking it??

Just make sure you're clear on the distinction that Secular Law does not override Biblical Law. Obeying the secular law is one thing, but participating in action that is sinful is a different matter entirely. It's pretty simple ... If the law commands you to sin (like exterminating Jews in Nazi Germany, as was the law of the land), then you don't sin. I don't think its complicated at all.

That is correct, you don't sin in those situations but the bible shows in those situations you should still accept the authority of the government and accept the consequences handed down by that government for not following those laws.

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Unread post by cochise » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:12 pm

Abraham wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:27 am
cochise wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:29 am

There is no get out of jail free clause in the bible for not following and respecting the rule of government, the bible states that the government was created by god and is acting on his behalf. That passage was written under the rule of the Roman emperor Nero, a man who set fire to rome and blamed on the Christian and still Paul wrote that the governments rule, Nero's rule was to be respected and followed.
You can argue that Christians are not compelled to participate in action because they are legal but they are compelled to not discriminate if that action is illegal and they are compelled to accept and rejoice in the consequence for breaking the law when they refuse to participate. Just like when John and Peter were flogged for disobeying an order not to teach in gods name. They didn't rebel, they accepted their punishment and in fact rejoiced in as they were suffering due to their obeying God. So if they law passes people who refuse to marry gay people due to religious beliefs will just have to accept their consequences because that is what the bible teaches us?

I found the website you got this from: https://www.gotquestions.org/laws-land.html

It says what i said: it is clear that as long as the law of the land does not contradict the law of God, we are bound to obey the law of the land. As soon as the law of the land contradicts God's command, we are to disobey the law of the land and obey God's law.

Like i said, not complicated at all.
Which is what I stated but you are to still accept the consequence for not following the law of the land. I also did not get that info from that website

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Unread post by Masterton » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:10 pm

magpiecol wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 5:22 pm
Masterton wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:36 am
Munk wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:00 pm
Look at the discrimination Milo Yiannopolous is copping in Australia.
Tolerant society? Everyone is entitled to an opinion? I think not.
Everyone IS entitled to an opinion. Other people are just as entitled and allowed to yell about it in the street.
They can yell all they like. It's when they start throwing rocks, urine and other things that I draw the line.
And don't get me started about how they treat the Police.

If the left did not have double standards, they would not have standards at all.

:brick: :brick:
I'm left. I have standards. I'm happy to shout things but not throw things, and I'm always nice to police.

Some left are nongs. So are some right. It's silly to pretend otherwise.
"I was on the bus before you painted it yellow."

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Unread post by goldcoast tiger » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:15 pm

Abraham wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:09 am
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:29 am

So Christians have no problem with gay people???
Oh that’s right , as long as they don’t have sex.
I can also promise you that anyone who goes to a gay wedding wil not be asked to indulge in homosexual sex.
You miss the point.
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:29 am
You seem to be terrified about the Government taking away freedoms, got news for you,
Most freedoms come with guidelines ( laws, as to how far people can go, and what they can do. You’re jumping up and down because you can’t discriminate against a group of people because of what they do in the privacy of their bedrooms( at least I hope that’s where they do it)
If they’re not going to bonk at the church or at the reception, you , and the Florists & Bakers should have no problems’ in fact both those people won’t even have to be at the wedding,
You miss the point.
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:29 am
My reference to gay firman etc, was just to point out your hypocrisy.
To put it simpler,
You say christians have nothing against the gay community,
It’s the type of sex that they indulge in that is a sin,
But you wouldn’t mind a gay rescue worker saving your life even if he was going straight home and having gay sex.
Just a tad hypocritical,
You miss the point.
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:29 am
And as for your comment that I mustn’t know many Christians, well you’re wrong about that.
I know quite a few, but none of them are screaming because two people who love each other
Can now get married, most of them even the ones who don’t go to church any more, live their life by Christian standards , but have the sense to know that you can be gay and still be a Christian and a good person.
You miss the point.
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:29 am
You burble on about your freedoms being taken away from you by Govts.and politicians.
But what’s the difference when Christians fanatics mindlessly follow the laws of a fictitious man in the sky , who has never been seen by any person ever, and has caused more wars than any other single identity, (ficticious, or not)
You miss the point. But still managed to insert completely false information, considering Atheists killed more people during the 20th Century alone, than all the wars of the previous 19 Centuries combined.
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:29 am
why are you so scared of Not being able to discriminate against the Gay Community
I hate to tell you that there are even some Christians who have gay sex,and even some who run churches and religious gatherings :o

Anyway, it looks like all the arguing is for nothing, by the look of the story in the papers, the Bill will go ahead with no alterations, they have the numbers.

A win for common sense! Now we ‘l just have to have a very strong umbrella, because the sky is about to fall .

If i didn't know better ... i'd say you miss entire the point.
An extremely well thought out response :crazy ,
you sound like one of those Politicians that you are so terrified of.
I’m surprised that you didn’t include the God Botherers All Time NO 1 response to anything That needs a solid answer. You know the one,” you have to have faith”,
It’s good to hide behind whenever you can’t win a argument.

Not much point in going on with this as dyed in the wool Christians will never admit that they just might be wrong about anything, “God works in mysterious ways”just about covers any real answers that you find to hard to come up with.
Loved the debate. But I’m of to see something that isn’t fiction.

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Unread post by goldcoast tiger » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:18 pm

magpiecol wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 1:42 pm
Same sex marriage advocates should front a Muslim Bakery and ask them to bake a cake for them. When they say "no", as they will, take them to court. Now that I would really like to see.
Ever been to a same sex wedding Col??.

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Unread post by Munk » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:39 pm

Masterton wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:10 pm
magpiecol wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 5:22 pm
Masterton wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:36 am
Munk wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:00 pm
Look at the discrimination Milo Yiannopolous is copping in Australia.
Tolerant society? Everyone is entitled to an opinion? I think not.
Everyone IS entitled to an opinion. Other people are just as entitled and allowed to yell about it in the street.
They can yell all they like. It's when they start throwing rocks, urine and other things that I draw the line.
And don't get me started about how they treat the Police.

If the left did not have double standards, they would not have standards at all.

:brick: :brick:
I'm left. I have standards. I'm happy to shout things but not throw things, and I'm always nice to police.

Some left are nongs. So are some right. It's silly to pretend otherwise.
No one is claiming otherwise. Its good to see the left and right agree that their respective far leaners are lunatics. Youd be surprised how many dont.

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Unread post by TrueTiger » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 12:17 pm

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:18 pm
magpiecol wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 1:42 pm
Same sex marriage advocates should front a Muslim Bakery and ask them to bake a cake for them. When they say "no", as they will, take them to court. Now that I would really like to see.
Ever been to a same sex wedding Col??.

GOD I love this forum.... :D
You may see me struggle...but you will never see me quit... :D

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Unread post by happy tiger » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 1:23 pm

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:18 pm
magpiecol wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 1:42 pm
Same sex marriage advocates should front a Muslim Bakery and ask them to bake a cake for them. When they say "no", as they will, take them to court. Now that I would really like to see.
Ever been to a same sex wedding Col??.
Apart from his own when he got drunk in Vegas I'll go out on a long limb and say no

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Unread post by Earl » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 2:25 pm

Masterton wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:36 am
Munk wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:00 pm
Look at the discrimination Milo Yiannopolous is copping in Australia.
Tolerant society? Everyone is entitled to an opinion? I think not.
Everyone IS entitled to an opinion. Other people are just as entitled and allowed to yell about it in the street.
This is a really interesting point. Protestors are cool so long as they remain in control and follow the laws of society.

The alt-right seem to think it's only okay for them to have free speech.

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Unread post by Go You Good Things » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 4:31 pm

Earl wrote:
Thu 07 Dec, 2017 2:25 pm
Masterton wrote:
Wed 06 Dec, 2017 8:36 am
Munk wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 8:00 pm
Look at the discrimination Milo Yiannopolous is copping in Australia.
Tolerant society? Everyone is entitled to an opinion? I think not.
Everyone IS entitled to an opinion. Other people are just as entitled and allowed to yell about it in the street.
This is a really interesting point. Protestors are cool so long as they remain in control and follow the laws of society.

The alt-right seem to think it's only okay for them to have free speech.
So all you see here Earl, is that the "alt-right" seem to think THEY are the only ones entitled to free speech, and that protesters that remain in control/obey the law are OK.
Not much use in talking about protesters that remain in control, when this discussion was about the Milo.Y protesters . . . . . that didn't look too law abiding. Or hygienic. Or employed. Or contributing to society. Or tolerant. Or believing in free speech. But at least you wont call them morons.
It's a moot point if the alt-right think they are the only ones entitled to free speech, coz the uber-left protesters decided that this bloke isn't entitled to free speech . . . and the violence and disgusting protest ensued.
The absolute funniest part in all of this is that this Milo bloke apparently not only married a MAN . . . he married a BLACK one. The only way he could have gotten more leftist minority group points, is if he had a sex change and married a black lesbian in a wheelchair. A fat one.
Once again, the tolerant left is happy to show tolerance to others, as long as they agree with what the left prescribes.
You guys are a scream.

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Unread post by Earl » Thu 07 Dec, 2017 4:59 pm

I find it interesting that the alt-right basically think they are hard done by but they want groups of people who disagree with them to have their rights limited.

I hope you can see how childish their arguments are. They have the rights to act like morons and they do it really really well. They complain about nothing. Then they go ahead and state they want other people's rights curtailed. Funny stuff.

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