NRL team stats, where are we?

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colmcd
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NRL team stats, where are we?

Post by colmcd » Mon 16 Apr, 2018 9:06 am

https://www.nrl.com/stats/

As a top 4 team, we don't feature on individual levels.
Luke Brooks is in the top 3 line engagers, 1 40/20 and 4th in offloads.
Esan Marsters is in the top 3 for offloads.
Benji is the 5th most for kick meters.
Corey Thompson is 4th for kick returns.

The only area we lead is Ineffective Tackles By Robbie Roccow who is in the top 5 of missed tackles (and the only forward in the top 5)... Yet Robbie has been killing it.

Only when you look at the team stats does it look like were a top 5 side.


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Post by willow » Mon 16 Apr, 2018 10:41 am

Because it's about the team - Not any one individual. In seasons gone by we have been reliant on individuals making a brilliant play. Not any more, our stats across the park are much more even this year with the structures, and players Cleary has put in place.

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Post by colmcd » Mon 16 Apr, 2018 11:21 pm

I think it does say we need some more "talent" or star power if we are to make the finals.

Yes we have a group of players playing well above average. But if we don't put some speed on our outer backs, we won't make the 4.

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Post by TigersBusDriver » Tue 17 Apr, 2018 12:17 am

colmcd wrote:
Mon 16 Apr, 2018 11:21 pm
I think it does say we need some more "talent" or star power if we are to make the finals.

Yes we have a group of players playing well above average. But if we don't put some speed on our outer backs, we won't make the 4.
Jeez... You're still not convinced? :brick:

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Post by jirskyr » Tue 17 Apr, 2018 9:04 am

colmcd wrote:
Mon 16 Apr, 2018 9:06 am
https://www.nrl.com/stats/

As a top 4 team, we don't feature on individual levels.
Luke Brooks is in the top 3 line engagers, 1 40/20 and 4th in offloads.
Esan Marsters is in the top 3 for offloads.
Benji is the 5th most for kick meters.
Corey Thompson is 4th for kick returns.

The only area we lead is Ineffective Tackles By Robbie Roccow who is in the top 5 of missed tackles (and the only forward in the top 5)... Yet Robbie has been killing it.

Only when you look at the team stats does it look like were a top 5 side.
2 of the comp's top 4 offloaders in our backline? That's saying something.

Also on Rochow, does he have high overall MTs or high % MTs? I believe he has played every minute of every game this season, so with big-minute players we obviously need to consider ratios.

But most important - points conceded = best in comp. You can't measure points conceded per player, and our attack is 10th best, so it's not entirely surprising that we don't have standouts in the attacking stats.


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Post by Geo. » Tue 17 Apr, 2018 11:52 am

The only stat that matters is the WWWWWWW stat ..Wests Tigers are up there with that. ..
Wests Tigers don't need a Coach.. The playing group has taken over..
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Post by colmcd » Wed 18 Apr, 2018 3:15 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Tue 17 Apr, 2018 9:04 am
colmcd wrote:
Mon 16 Apr, 2018 9:06 am
https://www.nrl.com/stats/

As a top 4 team, we don't feature on individual levels.
Luke Brooks is in the top 3 line engagers, 1 40/20 and 4th in offloads.
Esan Marsters is in the top 3 for offloads.
Benji is the 5th most for kick meters.
Corey Thompson is 4th for kick returns.

The only area we lead is Ineffective Tackles By Robbie Roccow who is in the top 5 of missed tackles (and the only forward in the top 5)... Yet Robbie has been killing it.

Only when you look at the team stats does it look like were a top 5 side.
2 of the comp's top 4 offloaders in our backline? That's saying something.

Also on Rochow, does he have high overall MTs or high % MTs? I believe he has played every minute of every game this season, so with big-minute players we obviously need to consider ratios.

But most important - points conceded = best in comp. You can't measure points conceded per player, and our attack is 10th best, so it's not entirely surprising that we don't have standouts in the attacking stats.
2 of the top 4. I am only seeing Esan Marsters there.
Might be worth diving on the stats on Rochow. Either it's a weird stat thing or he has a real weakness in his game. Everyone else with high missed tackles are basically halves or backs, not forwards.

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Post by krayola » Wed 18 Apr, 2018 3:35 pm

Interestingly 3 of the top 4 teams are in the top 5 for missed tackles (Tigers 4th, Panthers 3rd, Warriors 5th). Good to see we're up there set completion, kicking and runs made though.

The team stats back up the Dragons dominance so far. They're everywhere in the positive categories and nowhere to be seen in the negative.
One of my sources is Pascoe

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Post by Nelson » Wed 18 Apr, 2018 3:48 pm

colmcd wrote:
Wed 18 Apr, 2018 3:15 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Tue 17 Apr, 2018 9:04 am
colmcd wrote:
Mon 16 Apr, 2018 9:06 am
https://www.nrl.com/stats/

As a top 4 team, we don't feature on individual levels.
Luke Brooks is in the top 3 line engagers, 1 40/20 and 4th in offloads.
Esan Marsters is in the top 3 for offloads.
Benji is the 5th most for kick meters.
Corey Thompson is 4th for kick returns.

The only area we lead is Ineffective Tackles By Robbie Roccow who is in the top 5 of missed tackles (and the only forward in the top 5)... Yet Robbie has been killing it.

Only when you look at the team stats does it look like were a top 5 side.
2 of the comp's top 4 offloaders in our backline? That's saying something.

Also on Rochow, does he have high overall MTs or high % MTs? I believe he has played every minute of every game this season, so with big-minute players we obviously need to consider ratios.

But most important - points conceded = best in comp. You can't measure points conceded per player, and our attack is 10th best, so it's not entirely surprising that we don't have standouts in the attacking stats.
2 of the top 4. I am only seeing Esan Marsters there.
Might be worth diving on the stats on Rochow. Either it's a weird stat thing or he has a real weakness in his game. Everyone else with high missed tackles are basically halves or backs, not forwards.
It's because he's leading the line on the right hand side. His goal is to apply pressure. While sometimes he'll miss or fall off the tackle the value is in cutting down the time and options of the attacking side. Elijah Taylor has often done the same in the middle and he notches up a few missed tackles when he does. Missed tackles are just part and parcel of the defensive style being used.

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Post by Elderslie Tiger » Wed 18 Apr, 2018 4:52 pm

Tigers this year have learnt that Defence is not the thing that runs around the ground its what wins game, get your defence right the attack will follow.

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Post by jirskyr » Wed 18 Apr, 2018 5:42 pm

colmcd wrote:
Wed 18 Apr, 2018 3:15 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Tue 17 Apr, 2018 9:04 am
colmcd wrote:
Mon 16 Apr, 2018 9:06 am
https://www.nrl.com/stats/

As a top 4 team, we don't feature on individual levels.
Luke Brooks is in the top 3 line engagers, 1 40/20 and 4th in offloads.
Esan Marsters is in the top 3 for offloads.
Benji is the 5th most for kick meters.
Corey Thompson is 4th for kick returns.

The only area we lead is Ineffective Tackles By Robbie Roccow who is in the top 5 of missed tackles (and the only forward in the top 5)... Yet Robbie has been killing it.

Only when you look at the team stats does it look like were a top 5 side.
2 of the comp's top 4 offloaders in our backline? That's saying something.

Also on Rochow, does he have high overall MTs or high % MTs? I believe he has played every minute of every game this season, so with big-minute players we obviously need to consider ratios.

But most important - points conceded = best in comp. You can't measure points conceded per player, and our attack is 10th best, so it's not entirely surprising that we don't have standouts in the attacking stats.
2 of the top 4. I am only seeing Esan Marsters there.
Might be worth diving on the stats on Rochow. Either it's a weird stat thing or he has a real weakness in his game. Everyone else with high missed tackles are basically halves or backs, not forwards.
You said Brooks is 4th in offloads? Only within our team?

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Post by colmcd » Thu 19 Apr, 2018 8:54 am

Nelson wrote:
Wed 18 Apr, 2018 3:48 pm
colmcd wrote:
Wed 18 Apr, 2018 3:15 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Tue 17 Apr, 2018 9:04 am
colmcd wrote:
Mon 16 Apr, 2018 9:06 am
https://www.nrl.com/stats/

As a top 4 team, we don't feature on individual levels.
Luke Brooks is in the top 3 line engagers, 1 40/20 and 4th in offloads.
Esan Marsters is in the top 3 for offloads.
Benji is the 5th most for kick meters.
Corey Thompson is 4th for kick returns.

The only area we lead is Ineffective Tackles By Robbie Roccow who is in the top 5 of missed tackles (and the only forward in the top 5)... Yet Robbie has been killing it.

Only when you look at the team stats does it look like were a top 5 side.
2 of the comp's top 4 offloaders in our backline? That's saying something.

Also on Rochow, does he have high overall MTs or high % MTs? I believe he has played every minute of every game this season, so with big-minute players we obviously need to consider ratios.

But most important - points conceded = best in comp. You can't measure points conceded per player, and our attack is 10th best, so it's not entirely surprising that we don't have standouts in the attacking stats.
2 of the top 4. I am only seeing Esan Marsters there.
Might be worth diving on the stats on Rochow. Either it's a weird stat thing or he has a real weakness in his game. Everyone else with high missed tackles are basically halves or backs, not forwards.
It's because he's leading the line on the right hand side. His goal is to apply pressure. While sometimes he'll miss or fall off the tackle the value is in cutting down the time and options of the attacking side. Elijah Taylor has often done the same in the middle and he notches up a few missed tackles when he does. Missed tackles are just part and parcel of the defensive style being used.
Ah interesting. Yea his 182 tackles (at 6 games) gives about 30 per game and 110 average running meters is HUGE! Look don't get me wrong, the guy is doing something great it just sucks that the only individual effort we come NR1 in the league is ineffective tackles. Your explanation makes sense though, have someone get in the attacks face and force a decision.

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Post by Tigerdon » Thu 19 Apr, 2018 9:13 am

colmcd wrote:
Thu 19 Apr, 2018 8:54 am
Nelson wrote:
Wed 18 Apr, 2018 3:48 pm
colmcd wrote:
Wed 18 Apr, 2018 3:15 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Tue 17 Apr, 2018 9:04 am

2 of the comp's top 4 offloaders in our backline? That's saying something.

Also on Rochow, does he have high overall MTs or high % MTs? I believe he has played every minute of every game this season, so with big-minute players we obviously need to consider ratios.

But most important - points conceded = best in comp. You can't measure points conceded per player, and our attack is 10th best, so it's not entirely surprising that we don't have standouts in the attacking stats.
2 of the top 4. I am only seeing Esan Marsters there.
Might be worth diving on the stats on Rochow. Either it's a weird stat thing or he has a real weakness in his game. Everyone else with high missed tackles are basically halves or backs, not forwards.
It's because he's leading the line on the right hand side. His goal is to apply pressure. While sometimes he'll miss or fall off the tackle the value is in cutting down the time and options of the attacking side. Elijah Taylor has often done the same in the middle and he notches up a few missed tackles when he does. Missed tackles are just part and parcel of the defensive style being used.
Ah interesting. Yea his 182 tackles (at 6 games) gives about 30 per game and 110 average running meters is HUGE! Look don't get me wrong, the guy is doing something great it just sucks that the only individual effort we come NR1 in the league is ineffective tackles. Your explanation makes sense though, have someone get in the attacks face and force a decision.
It's more a question on how they are measuring missed tackles. It's not like he is being run over. We are having someone getting to the contact early but not completing the tackle because you can only have two players at marker. Often the first player rushes up, the next two come more in a line to wrap the attacker up. Then the first player quickly drops off to get back in the line, while the other two stay at marker. As the first guy is countered as a miss tackle.
I remember someone commenting on one of our first games his year that we had 40 missed tackles but the opposition only made three line breaks. They were trying to get their heads around that and once those types of M/T v opposition L/B stats kept coming out the same for each of our first few games they worked out this is a deliberate defensive pattern.
The other think we are doing different to most teams is an attacking wrestle. In some instances we are giving up some post contact metres and our attacking wrestle is more about getting to our front.
in Ivan we distrust

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Post by innsaneink » Thu 19 Apr, 2018 9:29 am

Very interesting Don, the last bit.... Will keep an eye out for that in future

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Post by happy tiger » Thu 19 Apr, 2018 9:39 am

Geo. wrote:
Tue 17 Apr, 2018 11:52 am
The only stat that matters is the WWWWWWW stat ..Wests Tigers are up there with that. ..
Now you've made me feel bad for all the nasty barbs I have thrown at you

Didn't realize you were a stutterer

Have you been deported to North Korea yet ??

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Post by MG1962 » Thu 19 Apr, 2018 10:09 am

Stats dont always tell the story. In 2015 when the Kansas City Royals won the World Series. The only stat they led the league in was a stat that no one took into account when deciding how good a team was.

When the experts went back and looked at that stat they realized the team had been historically good - As in the best performance in 110 years.

So with Wests, what is the x factor? Of the top of my head it has to be something associated with their scramble defense. So many missed tackles balanced against the best defense in the league.....................

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Post by Tigerdon » Thu 19 Apr, 2018 11:31 am

innsaneink wrote:
Thu 19 Apr, 2018 9:29 am
Very interesting Don, the last bit.... Will keep an eye out for that in future
I was listen to a Manly fan talk about the speed of our forwards and also what we were doing to them in the tackle. He was impressed because it was a tactic that seemed to take a lot out of the Manly forwards. We weren't doing it every hit up but doing it enough to make the Manly players do a lot of running backwards to get back the 10.
He described it as the WT players not doing a surrender tackle but after the initial hit rather than try and get a few extra post contact metres, the WT play would put more emphasis on the wrestle down. Giving Liddle and Brooks a lot of quick ball.

He also mentioned the really pack packs like Canberra, Cowboys, Dogs, Melb have been getting moved around more.
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