Where's Ivan?

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Blackpearl
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Re: Where's Ivan?

Post by Blackpearl » Wed 08 Aug, 2018 8:45 pm

helmesy wrote:
Wed 08 Aug, 2018 5:21 pm
Wouldn't be surprised if we have a new (interim) coach this weekend.
Was thinking the same.
Hodgo to step up for the rest of the season?
I dislike sowfs immensely


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Post by LCA » Thu 09 Aug, 2018 6:10 am

I don't know Ivan Cleary, I've never met Ivan Cleary. What I really admire (still present tense but could change quickly) is that he seems smart, authentic and genuine. I think the players genuinely like him and respect him as their coach. The members and fans, overwhelmingly, do too.

Despite the occasional hiccup this year, the performance of the NRL team has been positive and the future (that thing we're always looking at as Tigers fans)looks good.

What I just don't understand, given all of that, is his fixation on coaching his son?

Surely, managing the egos and talents of professional footy players is difficult and complex enough. The whole dad/son, coach/player thing has the potential to backfire big time, for both of them, if he was to link with Nathan at Penrith.

But, if that's not his priority, why else would he even consider returning to a joint that sacked him, and have since sacked the guy who replaced him? To hasten the sacking of Gould, maybe? Get rid of that control freak dinosaur and his grip over the club?

There simply has to be more to it than the chance to coach his son because, if there's not, the certainty of damage to his reputation and the regard with which he is held right across the NRL community is an enormous price to pay for something that has the very real potential to end disastrously. For both of them.

I don't get it.

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Post by Doc Tiger » Thu 09 Aug, 2018 6:35 am

I wasn't overly keen on Nathan coming across to play under Ivan anyway. Conflict of interest isn't ideal in the work place. it's one or the other for me really. I'd rather Ivan stay. i'd be completely shocked if all this turns out to be factual about him wanting a release. Shocked and disappointed but not devastated. Its just another classic tigers basket case story. Not of the boards doing, not of the players doing, but of the coach's for a change. The tigers soap opera continues.

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Post by Chicken Faced Killa » Thu 09 Aug, 2018 6:58 am

hobbo wrote:
Wed 08 Aug, 2018 8:34 pm
Where’s Ivan ??

Probably playing LEGO with Nathan !
Nathan’s still on DUPLO.

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Post by willow » Thu 09 Aug, 2018 7:10 am

Blackpearl wrote:
Wed 08 Aug, 2018 8:45 pm
helmesy wrote:
Wed 08 Aug, 2018 5:21 pm
Wouldn't be surprised if we have a new (interim) coach this weekend.
Was thinking the same.
Hodgo to step up for the rest of the season?
Given Ivan is staying I doubt it.


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Post by bigsiro » Thu 09 Aug, 2018 7:19 am

As a big Liverpool FC fan I recall when Steven Gerrard was courted by Chelsea and it was really touch and go for a while.
He ended up staying and became an even greater club legend.

Now, Ivan isn’t yet a club legend, so if he leaves now he will be reviled, but if he rejects the advances and sticks with us, well, he will almost certainly be loved even more than he was before. If he stays for a second term his club legend status is assured.
Still hoping
Make Wests Tigers Great Again

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Post by tigerken » Thu 09 Aug, 2018 7:31 am

Message to Ivan Cleary

A father is always, or should be, a coach - a life coach before anything else - no doubt Ivan you are a super coach there.
A father teaches his children integrity and loyalty - that a person's word is their bond.

The best coaching that Ivan can give Nathan publicly right now is that a man's word is his bond.
Tigers gave him a chance and know there is a chance that Ivan could return to a club where Gould said he was "burnt out",
and the public humiliation that brought to the Cleary family - "it's not us Ivan, it's you" said Gould effectively in late 2015.

If Ivan defects to Penrith he will just become another NRL identity that jumped ship when it suited them - regardless of the reason. However, if Ivan honours his contract at WT he will become the iconic NRL coach that stand for integrity in the NRL - God knows it is needed. Ivan's worth will jump enormously if he can show that rare quality of integrity in business.

As for Phil Gould- his word means nothing, and he clearly believes that a man's word should mean nothing. That nonsense of 2 weeks ago that he would release Nathan to play under his father was just that - nonsense - because he knew then that the pressure would be coming on the Tigers to release the father to coach the son.

Ivan, emember these words from Gould when he SACKED you- "With all my experience, all my heart and all my gut I believe it was the right thing for Ivan and for us at this time. We've been mates for 20 years and it's not an easy thing to do. I believe this club needed a new direction and I believe Ivan needed a spell. To be honest, I think we burned him out."

Tigerken

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Post by tiger_one » Thu 09 Aug, 2018 7:44 am

tigerken wrote:
Thu 09 Aug, 2018 7:31 am
Message to Ivan Cleary

A father is always, or should be, a coach - a life coach before anything else - no doubt Ivan you are a super coach there.
A father teaches his children integrity and loyalty - that a person's word is their bond.

The best coaching that Ivan can give Nathan publicly right now is that a man's word is his bond.
Tigers gave him a chance and know there is a chance that Ivan could return to a club where Gould said he was "burnt out",
and the public humiliation that brought to the Cleary family - "it's not us Ivan, it's you" said Gould effectively in late 2015.

If Ivan defects to Penrith he will just become another NRL identity that jumped ship when it suited them - regardless of the reason. However, if Ivan honours his contract at WT he will become the iconic NRL coach that stand for integrity in the NRL - God knows it is needed. Ivan's worth will jump enormously if he can show that rare quality of integrity in business.

As for Phil Gould- his word means nothing, and he clearly believes that a man's word should mean nothing. That nonsense of 2 weeks ago that he would release Nathan to play under his father was just that - nonsense - because he knew then that the pressure would be coming on the Tigers to release the father to coach the son.

Ivan, emember these words from Gould when he SACKED you- "With all my experience, all my heart and all my gut I believe it was the right thing for Ivan and for us at this time. We've been mates for 20 years and it's not an easy thing to do. I believe this club needed a new direction and I believe Ivan needed a spell. To be honest, I think we burned him out."

Tigerken
Says it all Ken - great first post.

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Post by jadtiger » Thu 09 Aug, 2018 7:51 am

tigerken wrote:
Thu 09 Aug, 2018 7:31 am
Message to Ivan Cleary

A father is always, or should be, a coach - a life coach before anything else - no doubt Ivan you are a super coach there.
A father teaches his children integrity and loyalty - that a person's word is their bond.

The best coaching that Ivan can give Nathan publicly right now is that a man's word is his bond.
Tigers gave him a chance and know there is a chance that Ivan could return to a club where Gould said he was "burnt out",
and the public humiliation that brought to the Cleary family - "it's not us Ivan, it's you" said Gould effectively in late 2015.

If Ivan defects to Penrith he will just become another NRL identity that jumped ship when it suited them - regardless of the reason. However, if Ivan honours his contract at WT he will become the iconic NRL coach that stand for integrity in the NRL - God knows it is needed. Ivan's worth will jump enormously if he can show that rare quality of integrity in business.

As for Phil Gould- his word means nothing, and he clearly believes that a man's word should mean nothing. That nonsense of 2 weeks ago that he would release Nathan to play under his father was just that - nonsense - because he knew then that the pressure would be coming on the Tigers to release the father to coach the son.

Ivan, emember these words from Gould when he SACKED you- "With all my experience, all my heart and all my gut I believe it was the right thing for Ivan and for us at this time. We've been mates for 20 years and it's not an easy thing to do. I believe this club needed a new direction and I believe Ivan needed a spell. To be honest, I think we burned him out."

Tigerken
Excellent post.Welcome to the asylum that is WT

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Post by supercoach » Thu 09 Aug, 2018 8:03 am

tiger_one wrote:
Thu 09 Aug, 2018 7:44 am
tigerken wrote:
Thu 09 Aug, 2018 7:31 am
Message to Ivan Cleary

A father is always, or should be, a coach - a life coach before anything else - no doubt Ivan you are a super coach there.
A father teaches his children integrity and loyalty - that a person's word is their bond.

The best coaching that Ivan can give Nathan publicly right now is that a man's word is his bond.
Tigers gave him a chance and know there is a chance that Ivan could return to a club where Gould said he was "burnt out",
and the public humiliation that brought to the Cleary family - "it's not us Ivan, it's you" said Gould effectively in late 2015.

If Ivan defects to Penrith he will just become another NRL identity that jumped ship when it suited them - regardless of the reason. However, if Ivan honours his contract at WT he will become the iconic NRL coach that stand for integrity in the NRL - God knows it is needed. Ivan's worth will jump enormously if he can show that rare quality of integrity in business.

As for Phil Gould- his word means nothing, and he clearly believes that a man's word should mean nothing. That nonsense of 2 weeks ago that he would release Nathan to play under his father was just that - nonsense - because he knew then that the pressure would be coming on the Tigers to release the father to coach the son.

Ivan, emember these words from Gould when he SACKED you- "With all my experience, all my heart and all my gut I believe it was the right thing for Ivan and for us at this time. We've been mates for 20 years and it's not an easy thing to do. I believe this club needed a new direction and I believe Ivan needed a spell. To be honest, I think we burned him out."

Tigerken
Says it all Ken - great first post.
Great Post...so true, what message is he giving his kid if he walks

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Post by foreveratiger » Thu 09 Aug, 2018 8:44 am

LCA wrote:
Thu 09 Aug, 2018 6:10 am
I don't know Ivan Cleary, I've never met Ivan Cleary. What I really admire (still present tense but could change quickly) is that he seems smart, authentic and genuine. I think the players genuinely like him and respect him as their coach. The members and fans, overwhelmingly, do too.

Despite the occasional hiccup this year, the performance of the NRL team has been positive and the future (that thing we're always looking at as Tigers fans)looks good.

What I just don't understand, given all of that, is his fixation on coaching his son?

Surely, managing the egos and talents of professional footy players is difficult and complex enough. The whole dad/son, coach/player thing has the potential to backfire big time, for both of them, if he was to link with Nathan at Penrith.

But, if that's not his priority, why else would he even consider returning to a joint that sacked him, and have since sacked the guy who replaced him? To hasten the sacking of Gould, maybe? Get rid of that control freak dinosaur and his grip over the club?

There simply has to be more to it than the chance to coach his son because, if there's not, the certainty of damage to his reputation and the regard with which he is held right across the NRL community is an enormous price to pay for something that has the very real potential to end disastrously. For both of them.

I don't get it.
It's all about the $$$$$ , Nathan no doubt wants to stay at Penrith and the Cleary Family hold the Ace in the negotiations of squeezing everything out of the Panthers in the next Contract deal.
See if Ivan's main objective is to Coach his son and to bring him at the Tiger's he probably can only give his son market value or how will it be seen by our Football office ? It's all about the money Ivan has no loyalty towards us ( hence the reason him being quiet ) .

I'm not bothered about Ivan now as damage is done , not to bothered about Nathan either as Brooks will extend with us at half the price that you will pay Nathan.
It depends who you talk to on this Forum, if you are Optimistic? it's because your delusional and need a reality check. If you are Pessimistic? Your accused of being a negative Nancy and to go and follow another Club.

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Post by tigerken » Thu 09 Aug, 2018 8:44 am

...and with respect, that's the approach WT should be taking with Ivan - here is an opportunity to show what the Cleary family and name stands for.

I have found over the years in business, and I'm 67, you get better responses by asking people for their help - "we need you, please stay" - rather than we wont release you from your contract and will sue.

Time for somebody to publicly show that there is integrity in the NRL - and that is you Ivan - we need you, please stay.

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Post by mtd » Thu 09 Aug, 2018 10:24 am

Does anyone know what was really said to the players by Ivan? Did he even mention it?

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Post by tigeress » Thu 09 Aug, 2018 12:02 pm

tigerken wrote:
Thu 09 Aug, 2018 8:44 am
...and with respect, that's the approach WT should be taking with Ivan - here is an opportunity to show what the Cleary family and name stands for.

I have found over the years in business, and I'm 67, you get better responses by asking people for their help - "we need you, please stay" - rather than we wont release you from your contract and will sue.

Time for somebody to publicly show that there is integrity in the NRL - and that is you Ivan - we need you, please stay.
I liked your first post Tigerken, but this one is better. I agree - We Need you Ivan, please stay :sign:

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Post by Chris » Thu 09 Aug, 2018 12:51 pm

We are 2 days into this and everyone relevant has had their say and issued statements to the media except Ivan. Why is Ivan silent in all this?

The longer he stays silent the more of a coward I see him for.

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Post by zowieben » Thu 09 Aug, 2018 1:23 pm

I think a lot of people here have short memories. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't we sign Sheens to a 3 or 5 (?) year contract and then sack him with 2 years remaining, and then try not to pay him compensation? How many players have we forced out who had valid contracts? Having said that, I agree that Cleary should stay. My take on the matter is that Penrith have taken a huge gamble on sacking Griffin and approaching Ivan Cleary purely to try and retain Nathan Cleary. They knew he was going, so they have gambled on bringing his father back to Penrith. All a bit grubby.

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Post by TopTiger » Thu 09 Aug, 2018 1:25 pm

Breaking news, Ivan Cleary has sacked himself effective immediately. Ivan has come to the conclusion that he has lost the dressing room and is too old school for the Tigers, he tried to convince himself to see out the season but for family reasons could not bring himself to do so. The Wests Tigers want to wish him all the best for the future but can't bring themselves to do it so, so instead have escorted him from the premises and taken the bus keys off him!!

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Post by tigerken » Thu 09 Aug, 2018 2:40 pm

Dear Ivan - you do know that Gus really doesn't want you - he just wants Nathan,
and not just so Penrith can win a premiership - it's so that Gus can orchestrate a premiership.

Based on Anthony Griffin's comments on NRL360 yesterday and his difference of coaching styles with Gould - how does Gus want you to coach your son at Penrith ?
Nathan is still 20 - there's still plenty of time to coach him anywhere when your respective commitments are completed - on your terms, nobody else's.

Ivan, Nathan - and Gus - cannot see it working.

The boys on your bus need you Ivan - please stay and be the 2018 Coach of the Year.
Do that and clubs and fans will fall over themselves to get you both when off your current contracts.

I'm all for forgiveness - but forget at your peril ...............

July 3, 2018 - Gus Gould quoted by AAP
Gould again denied on Monday night that there was any falling out between he and Griffin or that the players had lost faith in their coach. Instead, he pointed to Penrith’s on-field performances which have resulted in 10 wins and five losses to be fourth on the NRL ladder. “We’re a junior league club playing in the NRL competition,” Gould said.
“Our under-16s were minor premiers, beaten by the winners in the final.
“Our under-18s won the national title. Our under-20s share the lead in their competition, our reserve grade are on top of their competition.“And our first grade side are amongst those sides on 10 wins in the top eight and having a really good season.
“What could be going wrong?”

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