It really is time for Sheens to go........

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tomcat
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Re: It really is time for Sheens to go........

Post by tomcat » Tue 10 Apr, 2012 2:07 pm

tiger4ever wrote:
tomcat wrote:
Spartan117 wrote:Garbage thread, more than half the clubs would queue up for Sheens signature
Clubs might ,Players wouldn't.!!! The guy has no idea.. :crazy

Name the players that wouldn't...i seriously doubt there would be any.

i think sheens would get interest from most clubs.
Well you keep on loving praising and worshipping Sheens while i do the opposite..
EVERYBODY WANTS TO GO TO HEAVEN, BUT NOBODY WANTS TO DIE..


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Post by tiger4ever » Fri 13 Apr, 2012 10:56 pm

lol no i dont praise him either but i certainly dont blame the coach every time we string a few losses together.

It happens i dont sook about it or think i know better. but continue by all means

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Post by happy tiger » Sat 14 Apr, 2012 12:38 am

I wonder if we had Bennett , Bellamy or Hasler and we got on a 4-5 game losing streak whether if those caliing fior Sheens head would call for their heads as well

I say yes , some people just don't get it , your not going to win every game every week and for those of us that supoorted the Maggies at certain stages we waited a lot of weeks between wins

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Post by innsaneink » Sat 14 Apr, 2012 2:00 pm

But its not a 4-5 game losing streak....its 10 years with a 33% rate of making the semis ...some of us think he's stale & has waaay too much control....I was prepared to cut him some slack over the past 2 seasons, but the recruitment circus this past summer has seen my prior opinion return.
Time to go Tim. At seasons end, not now

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Post by Granto87 » Sat 14 Apr, 2012 2:15 pm

innsaneink wrote:But its not a 4-5 game losing streak....its 10 years with a 33% rate of making the semis ...some of us think he's stale & has waaay too much control....I was prepared to cut him some slack over the past 2 seasons, but the recruitment circus this past summer has seen my prior opinion return.
Time to go Tim. At seasons end, not now
Agree with the above, he is not the be all and end all, the way i see it if he goes at the end of the year we need some-one outside the club to take over, a fresh input and new ideas because it's not just Sheens, it is the systems he has in place and structures, god help us if he sees out his contract and becomes the coaching director! Even Furner has a 40% winning average and if it were up to Sheens when he retires he would be the sort of bloke he would want to take over. My choice for a replacment would be Potter.


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Post by cnx_tigers » Sat 14 Apr, 2012 2:20 pm

innsaneink wrote:But its not a 4-5 game losing streak....its 10 years with a 33% rate of making the semis ...some of us think he's stale & has waaay too much control....I was prepared to cut him some slack over the past 2 seasons, but the recruitment circus this past summer has seen my prior opinion return.
Time to go Tim. At seasons end, not now

Great post. Agree completely.

I can't believe people are saying "if this was Bennet" etc. This has NOTHING to do with the current losing streak.

It has EVERYTHING to do with our players lack of development. Lawrence came in as a 'potential anything' type player...he's now only just above an average center. Ayshford is regressing. Moltzen has patches of good, patches of bad......same as when he first came in.

Fulton and Highno were better in 2005 t0 2007 than they are now.

Too many players haven't gone to the "next level".

The past ten years we haven't produced one single player who has made the Kangaroo side and become a regular.

Robbie, Lawrence...their rep careers barely took off.

Benji still can't control a game in the last 10 mins.

These are all things GREAT coaches get from their players. Hell, Bennet taught Soward how to close out games..........Bennet won a comp with Soward!!!..........and Sheens can't teach Benji how to close out big games?

IMO we have had WAY more talent than St George the past 5 seasons.

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Post by tiger4ever » Sat 14 Apr, 2012 2:35 pm

so cnx if we didn't lose 5 in a row you and others would still have been writing these threads....yeah and i come out of the last shower to.

The players you mention there form has been fine up until the start of this year.lawrence and galloway played for australia.

fulton and heino are getting to the back end of their careers so its only natural they aren't as good as in their peak from 05-08.That has nothing to do with the coaching it happens to most players.

Soward didn't win the comp on his own.

Talent doesn't win football games...

We have 4 or 5 players that have individual brilliance that show it once every 3 weeks.

Dragons don't have any brilliant players they play a good solid game but they can do that on a more consistent basis.

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Post by GNR4LIFE » Sat 14 Apr, 2012 2:43 pm

I realy don't know how he made it past 09 tbh. There aren't too many coaches, if any who survive these days missing the finals 4 yrs in a row. Hell, Johnny Lang won the comp with Penrith on 03, in 04 got to the pre-lim, in 05 missed out on the finals, and at the start of 06 was told he was unwanted in 07. Yes we've had success the last 2 yrs, but atm there isn't any indication that our yr will mirror '10 or '11. If we do fail to make the finals this yr, it will be the 7th time we've missed out during Sheens' tenure. Embaressing for a coach of his so-called sature

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Post by tiger4ever » Sat 14 Apr, 2012 2:59 pm

yes just because panthers sacked lang...doesnt make it right does it...they went backwards....so with your example it shows why he should be kept.

Look at our club now compare to when he started....this hurts to say but we were the joke of the league....3 years later he helps win the tigers a comp...something i thought would never happen.

I can assure you on the forum every year since 05 people have been calling for sheens to be sacked.Hes made 2 finals in a row and with bit of luck we would have made another grand final.I for one will judge at the end of the year and i cant wait to see whats written then.

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Post by GNR4LIFE » Sat 14 Apr, 2012 3:07 pm

I'm sure either way you'll defend him to the hilt. 3 times in 10 seasons isn't something to be proud of

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Post by Granto87 » Sat 14 Apr, 2012 3:58 pm

GNR4LIFE wrote:I'm sure either way you'll defend him to the hilt. 3 times in 10 seasons isn't something to be proud of
Agree

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Post by tiger4ever » Sat 14 Apr, 2012 4:11 pm

no i dont....its not my go to b**** about things i can see you only need to win 3 in row to get in the8...i have to remember that now 3 times in 10 years...you guys said it all last year....

Its 3 times more then i ever thought we would make and won the big one...and that's something you hadn't experienced....so do you think it was sheens or the players that won it for us.

But one things for certain you guys will never stop complaining...how you get through the day..

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Post by GNR4LIFE » Sat 14 Apr, 2012 4:20 pm

tiger4ever wrote:no i dont....its not my go to [automatically edited] about things i can see you only need to win 3 in row to get in the8...i have to remember that now 3 times in 10 years...you guys said it all last year....

Its 3 times more then i ever thought we would make and won the big one...and that's something you hadn't experienced....so do you think it was sheens or the players that won it for us.

But one things for certain you guys will never stop complaining...how you get through the day..
I don't mind giving credit where credit is due. Yeah he was the primary factor in 05, and does get credit from me for the last 2 yrs. However, facts are facts, and if we fail to reach the finals this yr it will 7 times that we've failed under his leadership. God forbid we ask questions :roll:

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Post by Flippedy » Sat 14 Apr, 2012 4:29 pm

cnx_tigers wrote:
innsaneink wrote:But its not a 4-5 game losing streak....its 10 years with a 33% rate of making the semis ...some of us think he's stale & has waaay too much control....I was prepared to cut him some slack over the past 2 seasons, but the recruitment circus this past summer has seen my prior opinion return.
Time to go Tim. At seasons end, not now

Great post. Agree completely.

I can't believe people are saying "if this was Bennet" etc. This has NOTHING to do with the current losing streak.

It has EVERYTHING to do with our players lack of development. Lawrence came in as a 'potential anything' type player...he's now only just above an average center. Ayshford is regressing. Moltzen has patches of good, patches of bad......same as when he first came in.

Fulton and Highno were better in 2005 t0 2007 than they are now.

Too many players haven't gone to the "next level".

The past ten years we haven't produced one single player who has made the Kangaroo side and become a regular.

Robbie, Lawrence...their rep careers barely took off.

Benji still can't control a game in the last 10 mins.

These are all things GREAT coaches get from their players. Hell, Bennet taught Soward how to close out games..........Bennet won a comp with Soward!!!..........and Sheens can't teach Benji how to close out big games?

IMO we have had WAY more talent than St George the past 5 seasons.
2 great posts there and cnx you've nailed it! That guys like Marshall, Lawrence, Farah and Heighno haven't had the opportunity to develop, further, under another coach is really sad, imo. You often hear players switching clubs say that they are looking forward to being coached by so and so, as they would help them take their games to the next level. Many of our new guys have even said that of Sheens.

I would love to see what a new coach could do with them. However, they're all getting older now and the window of opportunity is closing fast. Unless we lose them to another club, their full potential may never be realised within the present coaching structure and team culture. It's a damn shame really.
Sooner or later, next year has to be this year - Ricksen

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Post by tiger4ever » Sat 14 Apr, 2012 4:35 pm

i see it as the players that won with some much need guile from the exp coach...he would say it himself

Its the players that are losing us games...none of the things we have done to lose games having 45% possession giving penalty's away s*** kicking game drop balls are coached by a NRL coach.The worst loss was the dragons...i think that was our worst performance.

Its like this week if we come out and smash panthers i bet they have done no different to any other week to prepare.

Oh well a few wins and we back in it and that's all we should care about.

flippedy how would you know about our structure or culture withing the club....All thos players you mention were nothing when they come to us...look at what they have done now....yeah they haven't developed

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Post by white_tiger » Sat 14 Apr, 2012 4:39 pm

Sheens has always baffled me abit... I am almost sure that if he never came to the club we would not be in the position the club is today in terms of creditability and sponsorship. I am sure we wouldnt have won the GF in 05, well Prince wouldnt have came here in case without Sheens.

But then I cant tell you, like most on this forum, how frustrated I am on a Tuesday afternoon looking at how many fullbacks and wingers he has named on the bench. To watch the team get out muscled by the opposition.

But the thing that I am the least sure of is are our players as great/talented as I think they are? Or does sheens get the most out of average players? there have been so many tigers players over the years that i have rated highly to have mates tell me how average they are and then I have seen players go to other clubs who I rated and did nothing.

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Post by Cultured Bogan » Sat 14 Apr, 2012 4:44 pm

cnx_tigers wrote:
innsaneink wrote:But its not a 4-5 game losing streak....its 10 years with a 33% rate of making the semis ...some of us think he's stale & has waaay too much control....I was prepared to cut him some slack over the past 2 seasons, but the recruitment circus this past summer has seen my prior opinion return.
Time to go Tim. At seasons end, not now

Great post. Agree completely.

I can't believe people are saying "if this was Bennet" etc. This has NOTHING to do with the current losing streak.

It has EVERYTHING to do with our players lack of development. Lawrence came in as a 'potential anything' type player...he's now only just above an average center. Ayshford is regressing. Moltzen has patches of good, patches of bad......same as when he first came in.

Fulton and Highno were better in 2005 t0 2007 than they are now.

Too many players haven't gone to the "next level".

The past ten years we haven't produced one single player who has made the Kangaroo side and become a regular.

Robbie, Lawrence...their rep careers barely took off.

Benji still can't control a game in the last 10 mins.

These are all things GREAT coaches get from their players. Hell, Bennet taught Soward how to close out games..........Bennet won a comp with Soward!!!..........and Sheens can't teach Benji how to close out big games?

IMO we have had WAY more talent than St George the past 5 seasons.
Some of those statements are ludicrous. Farah played two origin games, and was made a scapegoat despite: 1. Playing behind a pack that got bashed from pillar to post by one of the most dominant packs to ever play the game, and 2. Having creative geniuses in the halves such as Campese, Wallace and Barrett direct the game.

Lawrence has been unlucky through injuries and the usual boys club mentality that creeps into origin selections.

Lawrence is carrying a shoulder injury and isn't seeing the ball enough out wide, he can't be an effective centre when the ball isn't coming his way.

Ayshford was poor to start the season, but has shown glimpses of his form from last year in the last two games. He'll be hurting being sided to the bench and will be out with a point to prove. Moltzen is playing out of position.

You're right about one thing though, we shouldn't be relying on Benji to close out a game, which is where a level headed half with enough balls to call over him would come in handy. Lui was becoming that player, but for reasons outside Sheens control he is no longer at the club and this was evident in games last year where we were scraping though with wins we'd ordinarily have let slip. Alot of us armchair critics believe Miller is the guy (I'm one of them,) but he isn't in first grade for a reason.

Apart from going into this season a prop short and his baffling team selections, I really struggle to fault him for anything else. IMO we've only been genuinely poor in two games and we were rightfully pantsed.
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Post by Flippedy » Sat 14 Apr, 2012 6:14 pm

tiger4ever wrote:i see it as the players that won with some much need guile from the exp coach...he would say it himself

Its the players that are losing us games...none of the things we have done to lose games having 45% possession giving penalty's away s*** kicking game drop balls are coached by a NRL coach.The worst loss was the dragons...i think that was our worst performance.

Its like this week if we come out and smash panthers i bet they have done no different to any other week to prepare.

Oh well a few wins and we back in it and that's all we should care about.

flippedy how would you know about our structure or culture withing the club....All thos players you mention were nothing when they come to us...look at what they have done now....yeah they haven't developed
Of course they've developed to some extent, tiger, they all came through the ranks here, but I still believe they could go further under a different coaching style. Sometimes change is good. Anyway, read cnx's post, again, for a better understanding of where these guys are at now.
Sooner or later, next year has to be this year - Ricksen

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