Kidwell

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Geo.
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Kidwell

Post by Geo. » Sat 09 Aug, 2014 10:01 pm

I believe he is the defensive coach,,,,

And some reports have him taking over as Head coach...

Based on tonight,,,NO THANKS
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3. Be the player your teammates want to play with..
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Post by Eye Of Da Tiger » Sat 09 Aug, 2014 10:13 pm

X 1000. Anybody who's there now shouldn't be there soon let alone promoted. This club needs new blood new direction. Potter to me just seems to be a Shenius clone.Whats he playing out there?musical chairs. His assistants coaches PLEASE!

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Post by alexaki » Sat 09 Aug, 2014 11:31 pm

Bring back john muggleton as our defensive coach

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Post by Droppy » Sun 10 Aug, 2014 1:44 am

get rid of the lot of them. all clueless.

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Post by liltiger » Sun 10 Aug, 2014 8:06 am

To think a week ago Kidwell was being mentioned as a replacement for potter wow. He can't even teach the lads to defend let alone everything else he would need to do as a first grade coach. Iv been a potter supporter all along but even now I'm starting to wonder if it's time for a change maybe we need a new head coach would everybody be okay with the club appointing a new head coach if they knew the club would resign potter to a less senior coaching role maybe as an assistant. What do u guys think?


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Post by cqtiger » Sun 10 Aug, 2014 8:25 am

I am just waiting for the new independants to take over our board. It will all start to get better, bit by bit. If they are strong business people with half a footy brain things will improve.

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Post by innsaneink » Sun 10 Aug, 2014 8:26 am

You cannot judge any of the coaches abilities on what we saw last night, judge them on the best theyve gotten out of this team this season.

Last night was not normal circumstances. Much much more than on-field issues.

Judge the coaches on the best, if theyve done it before - we know the ability is there, it can be done again...as long as everyones working together which hasnt been the case for a while

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Post by Tiger_heart » Sun 10 Aug, 2014 8:34 am

innsaneink - I believe the coach should be judged on the average performance during the year, not on the best they have gotten out of the team this season. Do you have performance appraisals at work? It should work the same way when done correctly. Far too often though people tend to only remember most recent events when judging, hence why I am saying that is should be an average of what has happened. As much as Potter did well at the start of the year, somewhere along the line something has gone horribly wrong, which will impact the way he will be judged. One thing I'l say is that if he is resigned, then a lot of players' futures at the club will need to be re-assessed, including our senior players and coaching staff.

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Post by innsaneink » Sun 10 Aug, 2014 8:39 am

Tiger_heart wrote:innsaneink - I believe the coach should be judged on the average performance during the year, not on the best they have gotten out of the team this season. Do you have performance appraisals at work? It should work the same way when done correctly. Far too often though people tend to only remember most recent events when judging, hence why I am saying that is should be an average of what has happened. As much as Potter did well at the start of the year, somewhere along the line something has gone horribly wrong, which will impact the way he will be judged. One thing I'l say is that if he is resigned, then a lot of players' futures at the club will need to be re-assessed, including our senior players and coaching staff.
Good post, very reasonable.
I see your point.
Unfortunatley I dont think ability will be the main factor in who stays and goes, politics and power will be the driving factor.

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Post by LCA » Sun 10 Aug, 2014 9:40 am

Tiger-heart, as a mathematician I am interested how you will measure an "average" for the season? If it's a combination of quantitative data (competition points, points for and against, missed tackles, penalties conceded, metres gained, tries scored etc) and qualitative data (Brian Smith report, feedback from staff, players, sponsors, members fans etc) then I think Potter is doomed. Deservedly or not? I am not sure.

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Post by liltiger » Sun 10 Aug, 2014 9:48 am

innsaneink wrote:
Tiger_heart wrote:innsaneink - I believe the coach should be judged on the average performance during the year, not on the best they have gotten out of the team this season. Do you have performance appraisals at work? It should work the same way when done correctly. Far too often though people tend to only remember most recent events when judging, hence why I am saying that is should be an average of what has happened. As much as Potter did well at the start of the year, somewhere along the line something has gone horribly wrong, which will impact the way he will be judged. One thing I'l say is that if he is resigned, then a lot of players' futures at the club will need to be re-assessed, including our senior players and coaching staff.
Good post, very reasonable.
I see your point.
Unfortunatley I dont think ability will be the main factor in who stays and goes, politics and power will be the driving factor.
Great point ink i agree 100 percent if that's the way it goes under the new board then unfortunately nothing will change we will have the same board room drama as we always have. I'm aggravated at the moment because and please I don't mean to sound sexist but we already should have an independent board up and running now but the nrl are waiting to find a female board member and though I think it is a great initiative on the part of the nrl it is not worth risking an nrl club that in recent weeks seems to be imploding we do need more female representation at the top level but not at the expense of our club they just need to appoint the best candidates irrespective of their gender and get on with it

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Post by Anthism » Sun 10 Aug, 2014 8:08 pm

He's used to be the defensive coach at Melbourne and they've been pretty close to the best defensive team for some time minus this season. I honestly don't think you can turn a club's defense around that much in the space of 8 months, especially ours. Agree with Ink, something just isn't right in the club.

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Post by Tiger_heart » Sun 10 Aug, 2014 10:18 pm

LCA wrote:Tiger-heart, as a mathematician I am interested how you will measure an "average" for the season? If it's a combination of quantitative data (competition points, points for and against, missed tackles, penalties conceded, metres gained, tries scored etc) and qualitative data (Brian Smith report, feedback from staff, players, sponsors, members fans etc) then I think Potter is doomed. Deservedly or not? I am not sure.
That's one way. The other is to review what KPIs may have been set at the start of the year (eg at minimum make the eight; defensive record better than last year by at least 10% etc.)
This is how it works in the real world, sporting coaches are no exception. This said, the ideal performance score remains a holy grail, variables such as the players don't like the coach or how he coaches cannot be readily translated into mathematical expressions, and if they could, the result would be a zero sum game (eg the team versus the coach or the team versus the fans). Maybe this is what we are faced with now.

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Post by Demonborger » Sun 10 Aug, 2014 10:32 pm

The weakness of our defense in the past three defeats all began on the edges, and a large part of that is personnel dependent. You can't have new players and new combinations, particularly with players of low capability or experience, slot in seamlessly. We saw what our attack did the the Inu side in that Bulldogs game for instance, it happens to most teams who have first choice players out.


Cronk, Widdop and Thurston all took advantage of our weaknesses out wide. With the Farah debacle, leaking points out wide and a failure to do anything constructive in possession. Rugby league is a game where if you score points you deprive the opposition on possession (thanks to the conceding team kicking off) and put them under pressure. You gain momentum that way too.

Our pack has lost confidence and moral also.

It wouldn't matter who our defensive coach is for the results of the past 3 weeks. The guys have lost confidence (internally, externally, on field, off field) and our squad is assembling in such a way that our outside backs in our top 25 are limited in quality and quantity.

That's a Potter problem imo. Losing Koro to the Storm was one thing, another and more stinging problem was blowing our 2nd tier cap on forwards who we probably had enough of in our top 25 that could do a reasonable job. There was no planning for such injuries.

The injuries themselves come down largely to staff, facilities, training, technique and luck. You can't help luck but the rest you can. We need to address these and quickly.

I'm of the opinion that if we have to, it might be the right decision to take all games to ANZ to get the increased money to use on upgrading our off field set up.

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Post by sheer64 » Sun 10 Aug, 2014 11:20 pm

[quote="Demonborger"]The weakness of our defense in the past three defeats all began on the edges, and a large part of that is personnel dependent. You can't have new players and new combinations, particularly with players of low capability or experience, slot in seamlessly. We saw what our attack did the the Inu side in that Bulldogs game for instance, it happens to most teams who have first choice players out.


Cronk, Widdop and Thurston all took advantage of our weaknesses out wide. With the Farah debacle, leaking points out wide and a failure to do anything constructive in possession. Rugby league is a game where if you score points you deprive the opposition on possession (thanks to the conceding team kicking off) and put them under pressure. You gain momentum that way too.

Our pack has lost confidence and moral also.

It wouldn't matter who our defensive coach is for the results of the past 3 weeks. The guys have lost confidence (internally, externally, on field, off field) and our squad is assembling in such a way that our outside backs in our top 25 are limited in quality and quantity.

That's a Potter problem imo. Losing Koro to the Storm was one thing, another and more stinging problem was blowing our 2nd tier cap on forwards who we probably had enough of in our top 25 that could do a reasonable job. There was no planning for such injuries.

The injuries themselves come down largely to staff, facilities, training, technique and luck. You can't help luck but the rest you can. We need to address these and quickly.

I'm of the opinion that if we have to, it might be the right decision to take all games to ANZ to get the increased money to use on upgrading our off field set up.[/quote

Thanks Demonborger you have restored my faith that this forum is not just for the whingers.
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Post by 69tiger » Mon 11 Aug, 2014 9:55 am

I'm very impressed at what's happening at Penrith, having a G M head of Football like Gould ( love him or hate him ) has, and is working well there , they have a long term plan in place and building very nicely I think, they have bought very shrewdly as well, a good mix of youth and senior players, their a well coached side that play with good structure, and confidence, and will be a force to be reckoned with, I'd love to see a similar plan put in place at the Tigers,we need an overhaul, and a strong management team, and a strong leader, who has the vision,and who can put a structure in place to take us to the next level.

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Post by bp tiger » Mon 11 Aug, 2014 10:37 am

69tiger wrote:I'm very impressed at what's happening at Penrith, having a G M head of Football like Gould ( love him or hate him ) has, and is working well there , they have a long term plan in place and building very nicely I think, they have bought very shrewdly as well, a good mix of youth and senior players, their a well coached side that play with good structure, and confidence, and will be a force to be reckoned with, I'd love to see a similar plan put in place at the Tigers,we need an overhaul, and a strong management team, and a strong leader, who has the vision,and who can put a structure in place to take us to the next level.

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you have hit the nail on the head, Penrith have injury worries as well yet they are still playing well. all because they have a strong management and a coach who takes no crap and can coach.
At the end of this year we need to clean out the whole of the coaching staff and all the trainers and medical staff as well and start with a fresh crew. Not sure who I would have as a head coach, just hope the new board can pick a winner this time around.

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Post by Balmain Boy » Mon 11 Aug, 2014 10:41 am

Kidwell isn't the defensive coach. He is the forwards coach!!!

I'm pretty sure we don't have a defensive coach, at leats not one for the whole team. I think it works something like:

Kidwell = forwards coach
Payten = backs coach
Webster = helps out everywhere
Potter oversees tactics, style, game plans and bigger picture stuff.

ie the coaches take on the attacking and defensive roles for their assigned group of players

But the defence of our forwards has been awful for much of the season. Sure the big boys will sometimes miss a fast guy coming through but Tapau, Gavet, Ava, Sirro, KG etc have all been guilty of some very bad/lazy reads in defence, or poor technique.

The backs have been awful in defence most of the season too. We play that up and in defence which requires a huge amount of speed, trust, decision making and generally all the backs being on the same page. When we have slow, poor defenders rushing off the line and missing tackles, leaving wings open to fast players (of which we have none to try catch them with) we're always going to have poor defence. All the outside backs are pretty much equally guilty. Simona, Lawrence, Koro, Lulia, Nofo, and to a lesser extent Richards, all rush in and all miss far more than they make. Lawrence simply makes many more mistakes in other areas too which means his value is close to 0. Koro's defence was no worse than Simona's, Lawrence's or Lulia's yet he got bashed for appearing to be worse even though all the players were playing the same style equally poorly.

Some of this is players who simply can't tackle. Some could be improved by better coaching or tactics.

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