Chris Lawrence

Nelson
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Re: Chris Lawrence

Post by Nelson » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 8:56 am

happy tiger wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 6:09 am
Hang on Rowdy is a better second rower than just about every back rower in the comp according to the stats

We had this argument in the pre season

We should of signed him for life according to the stats , shouldn't we ??
He had a bad game no doubt, it probably wasn't helped by his confidence going down along with that ball on the kickoff. It's 3 games into the season though and while that's apparently early enough to knife a coach you should probably wait a bit longer before you completely write off Lawrence and start crowing about being "right".


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Post by Geo. » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 9:00 am

Nelson wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 8:56 am
happy tiger wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 6:09 am
Hang on Rowdy is a better second rower than just about every back rower in the comp according to the stats

We had this argument in the pre season

We should of signed him for life according to the stats , shouldn't we ??
He had a bad game no doubt, it probably wasn't helped by his confidence going down along with that ball on the kickoff. It's 3 games into the season though and while that's apparently early enough to knife a coach you should probably wait a bit longer before you completely write off Lawrence and start crowing about being "right".
Happy seems to use stats as it suits him...here they are meaningless yet when it comes to Aaron and metres after contact.. (a stat not recorded btw) they prove he is also useless..
Ivan's Laws

1. You are either on the Bus or you are off..
2. The Star of the Team is the Team
3. Be the player your teammates want to play with..
happy tiger wrote:
Mon 11 Jun, 2018 10:03 pm


Sorry FT , you know I'm not the brightest match in the pile

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 9:03 am

Tigers17 wrote:
Sun 19 Mar, 2017 9:29 pm
Now if you want to bag Lawrence that's fair enough in my opinion. But why is Lawrence under contract until 2019. Why isn't this point ever brought up???. If I remember correctly wasn't this one of the many problems that others caused for Jason Taylor, correct me If I'm wrong, but wasn't this one of the many stuff ups associated with the Tim Sheens era. Wasn't it a 5 year contract on absurd money, with a one year option in his favour, which he exercised. Hang on, I almost forgot about Andrew Fifita. That's right, he was let go for Adam Blair. Chris Heighington another. Truth is we got lucky in 2005, by the name of Scott Prince and Benji Marshall.
The other piece of luck was Anthony Lafranchi. His leaving left a hell of a hole

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Post by jirskyr » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 10:17 am

batboy wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 8:53 am
You'll find that Lawrence has 2 defenders waiting for him because he has one line - and one line only...
Outside in.
Well no, there are plenty of instances of him running an out-line. Plenty, I'll even pull them up this afternoon if I have to.

But there are two main reasons IMO why Lawrence often runs outside-in:

1) Brooks runs across field too much. You can hardly run an outside line when your half is also running that line straight at you. You are just asking to get smashed, for a halfback to run you across field, at the defensive line, and throw you a pass across your body as the defence slides on you. Suicide. The natural response to a sideways distribution is to pick a moment to cut across that grain. Look at the second pass where Lawrence is forced to cut back in because Brooks runs across him.

2) The outside ball is normally meant for Tedesco. Don't think Brooks hit MCK at all against the Raiders, don't think he has hit him at all this season on that kind of play. Lawrence straightens so Tedesco can get the sweeping out-ball.

So Lawrence attracts heavy defence because they know he's going to get the ball, especially if Tedesco is not immediately present. Look at Pass 1, the backs are 8 metres behind the play, the Raiders are not at all concerned that the ball might go out back. And frankly Brooks just telegraphs too much, he rarely runs on these plays, for some reason doesn't really use his left-foot step, the defence just knows it's either going to Lawrence or Tedesco, that's the 2 options.

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Post by Eddie » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 11:25 am

Brooks does throw him some dead set hospital balls.

However his hands have been an embarrassment since he got his hip injury.

He just looks like the football is a foreign object in his hands.

He struggles to play the ball properly without adjusting the ball in his hands.

It's embarrassing to watch.


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Post by bigsiro » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 12:13 pm

Hospital shmospital!!!!

Gimme a bloody break!!!!

Catch the ball for crying out loud!!!! Hospital pass is hardly a reason to drop the ball FOUR TIMES in a half!!

Sure, they were poor passes. What about the drop from the kick-off??? Did Brooks do that too???

Crikey Brooks has enough detractors (I'm one) and there enough threads where us fans highlight his ineptitude. But fair go, this is about Lawrence and unless those passes are uncatch-able (which they weren't) then a guy who is an 11 year veteran can damn well catch the ball first and if he's got an issue with the poor passing then he would be well within his rights to berate Brooks all he damn well likes.

But, if he's going to drop the ball every single time unless it is lightly placed on his chest then fair suck.
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Post by bigsiro » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 12:14 pm

Eddie wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 11:25 am
Brooks does throw him some dead set hospital balls.

However his hands have been an embarrassment since he got his hip injury.

He just looks like the football is a foreign object in his hands.

He struggles to play the ball properly without adjusting the ball in his hands.

It's embarrassing to watch.
Fully!
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Post by happy tiger » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 12:25 pm

Geo. wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 9:00 am
Nelson wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 8:56 am
happy tiger wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 6:09 am
Hang on Rowdy is a better second rower than just about every back rower in the comp according to the stats

We had this argument in the pre season

We should of signed him for life according to the stats , shouldn't we ??
He had a bad game no doubt, it probably wasn't helped by his confidence going down along with that ball on the kickoff. It's 3 games into the season though and while that's apparently early enough to knife a coach you should probably wait a bit longer before you completely write off Lawrence and start crowing about being "right".
Happy seems to use stats as it suits him...here they are meaningless yet when it comes to Aaron and metres after contact.. (a stat not recorded btw) they prove he is also useless..
My argument with Woods is too often he touches the ball in the red zone , doubt too many could argue with that

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Post by Nelson » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 12:29 pm

happy tiger wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 12:25 pm
Geo. wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 9:00 am
Nelson wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 8:56 am
happy tiger wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 6:09 am
Hang on Rowdy is a better second rower than just about every back rower in the comp according to the stats

We had this argument in the pre season

We should of signed him for life according to the stats , shouldn't we ??
He had a bad game no doubt, it probably wasn't helped by his confidence going down along with that ball on the kickoff. It's 3 games into the season though and while that's apparently early enough to knife a coach you should probably wait a bit longer before you completely write off Lawrence and start crowing about being "right".
Happy seems to use stats as it suits him...here they are meaningless yet when it comes to Aaron and metres after contact.. (a stat not recorded btw) they prove he is also useless..
My argument with Woods is too often he touches the ball in the red zone , doubt too many could argue with that
Well he's not going into dummy half and bloody well getting it, maybe they should stop passing it to him!

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Post by happy tiger » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 12:33 pm

Nelson wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 12:29 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 12:25 pm
Geo. wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 9:00 am
Nelson wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 8:56 am


He had a bad game no doubt, it probably wasn't helped by his confidence going down along with that ball on the kickoff. It's 3 games into the season though and while that's apparently early enough to knife a coach you should probably wait a bit longer before you completely write off Lawrence and start crowing about being "right".
Happy seems to use stats as it suits him...here they are meaningless yet when it comes to Aaron and metres after contact.. (a stat not recorded btw) they prove he is also useless..
My argument with Woods is too often he touches the ball in the red zone , doubt too many could argue with that
Well he's not going into dummy half and bloody well getting it, maybe they should stop passing it to him!
Wouldn't be so bad if he was trying to land on his stomach and trying to get quick play the balls we can actually do something with :brick:

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Post by jirskyr » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 1:47 pm

bigsiro wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 12:13 pm
Hospital shmospital!!!!

Gimme a bloody break!!!!

Catch the ball for crying out loud!!!! Hospital pass is hardly a reason to drop the ball FOUR TIMES in a half!!

Sure, they were poor passes. What about the drop from the kick-off??? Did Brooks do that too???

Crikey Brooks has enough detractors (I'm one) and there enough threads where us fans highlight his ineptitude. But fair go, this is about Lawrence and unless those passes are uncatch-able (which they weren't) then a guy who is an 11 year veteran can damn well catch the ball first and if he's got an issue with the poor passing then he would be well within his rights to berate Brooks all he damn well likes.

But, if he's going to drop the ball every single time unless it is lightly placed on his chest then fair suck.
Over-reaction IMO. Obviously he doesn't drop every ball and very few of the passes he might drop are from light chest balls.

He dropped the ball 3 times in the match. IMO one of those was a dead-cert hospital, another was not great but he should have caught it, the kickoff was all his own fault. It's poor, for sure. What I don't get is how certain players get all the grief after a team-wide crap performance.

Brooks was poor, Lawrence was poor, Sue was poor, Moses was poor... most of them were poor.

Yes Lawrence should catch more footballs but also Brooks should throw less crap passes. You can't just say "the onus is on Lawrence to catch everything".

In 3 rounds Suli and Tedesco have the most errors (6). Lawrence has 5, Moses 4, 5 others have 3 errors. Previously, Lawrence made 12 errors in 2016, 7th worst of the team. In 2015 he made 10 errors, 11th worst. In 2014 he made 25 errors, that was a bad year, worst in the team. He's hardly the consistent ball-dropper, mistake-maker that he is labelled.

Just looking for some perspective in these hard times. All performances need to be viewed in context.

I almost wish for Chris Lawrence's sake he never was that good as a kid, because he's always being judged on his early performances. "Where is the Chris Lawrence with such pace and power?", people say. He's gone, gone gone gone. "He's been replaced by a Chris Lawrence who drops every pass." Well no he hasn't, he has a modest but very improvable record of errors, he is one of the few Tigers players to consistently put his body on the line in attack. He's only been worse than 8th for team-wide missed tackles once (2016 when he was 4th-worst).

Chris Lawrence has a lot of work to do, he's not at a level we need to be a strong-performing club. Same with Sue, Aloiai, Grant, Edwards, Lovett, MCK, Ava... it's a pack-wide issue.

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Post by Geo. » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 2:02 pm

He held onto the ball running outside in from Tedesco who ran 20m across field and scored through 3 Souff's defenders one was Farah and I loved it...

Also one of the few that take a dirty hit up from our end generally making metres and a quickish PTB..
Ivan's Laws

1. You are either on the Bus or you are off..
2. The Star of the Team is the Team
3. Be the player your teammates want to play with..
happy tiger wrote:
Mon 11 Jun, 2018 10:03 pm


Sorry FT , you know I'm not the brightest match in the pile

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Post by Newtown » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 2:39 pm

happy tiger wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 12:25 pm
Geo. wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 9:00 am
Nelson wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 8:56 am
happy tiger wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 6:09 am
Hang on Rowdy is a better second rower than just about every back rower in the comp according to the stats

We had this argument in the pre season

We should of signed him for life according to the stats , shouldn't we ??
He had a bad game no doubt, it probably wasn't helped by his confidence going down along with that ball on the kickoff. It's 3 games into the season though and while that's apparently early enough to knife a coach you should probably wait a bit longer before you completely write off Lawrence and start crowing about being "right".
Happy seems to use stats as it suits him...here they are meaningless yet when it comes to Aaron and metres after contact.. (a stat not recorded btw) they prove he is also useless..
My argument with Woods is too often he touches the ball in the red zone , doubt too many could argue with that
Woods has trouble passing the ball at all.
Brooks has trouble throwing a good pass.
Lawrence has trouble catching a pass or high ball.

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Post by jirskyr » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 3:18 pm

Newtown wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 2:39 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 12:25 pm
Geo. wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 9:00 am
Nelson wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 8:56 am


He had a bad game no doubt, it probably wasn't helped by his confidence going down along with that ball on the kickoff. It's 3 games into the season though and while that's apparently early enough to knife a coach you should probably wait a bit longer before you completely write off Lawrence and start crowing about being "right".
Happy seems to use stats as it suits him...here they are meaningless yet when it comes to Aaron and metres after contact.. (a stat not recorded btw) they prove he is also useless..
My argument with Woods is too often he touches the ball in the red zone , doubt too many could argue with that
Woods has trouble passing the ball at all.
Not really true, Woods has been 3rd highest or better for offloads in the team 2014-2017.

They don't publish stats on distribution, but I'd encourage you to watch how many times Woods passes before the line as well, it would be multiple times per match.

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Post by bigsiro » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 4:13 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 1:47 pm
He dropped the ball 3 times in the match. IMO one of those was a dead-cert hospital, another was not great but he should have caught it, the kickoff was all his own fault. It's poor, for sure. What I don't get is how certain players get all the grief after a team-wide crap performance.
He dropped the ball 4 times. The last drop was in a play where Canberra were called out for a penalty so it didn't officially count as a drop. He got lucky there....
jirskyr wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 1:47 pm
Yes Lawrence should catch more footballs but also Brooks should throw less crap passes. You can't just say "the onus is on Lawrence to catch everything".
The passes were catch-able.
jirskyr wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 1:47 pm
Lawrence made 12 errors in 2016, 7th worst of the team.
I'm also looking for perspective so in regards to your stats; yes, Lawrence didn't miss as many tackles as Brooks or Moses but he missed the most tackles of any forward (by a mile).
He also made more errors then any other forward - nearly double the next player.

His errors and misses are also magnified because (a) more is expected of the veteran (b) his errors just always seem so rudimentary (opinion).
jirskyr wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 1:47 pm
he is one of the few Tigers players to consistently put his body on the line in attack.
Puhhlease, what a contradiction! Being excused for dropping hospital passes and at the same time lauded for putting his body on the line. Strewth!
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Post by jirskyr » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 4:19 pm

bigsiro wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 4:13 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 1:47 pm
He dropped the ball 3 times in the match. IMO one of those was a dead-cert hospital, another was not great but he should have caught it, the kickoff was all his own fault. It's poor, for sure. What I don't get is how certain players get all the grief after a team-wide crap performance.
He dropped the ball 4 times. The last drop was in a play where Canberra were called out for a penalty so it didn't officially count as a drop. He got lucky there....
So he dropped the ball 3 times then? Or shall we make a habit of counting the unofficial mistakes, the tackles that could have been missed, the tries that could have been scored, the forward passes that the refs let go?

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Post by bigsiro » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 4:22 pm

groan.
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Post by Nelson » Tue 21 Mar, 2017 4:25 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 3:18 pm
Newtown wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 2:39 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 12:25 pm
Geo. wrote:
Tue 21 Mar, 2017 9:00 am


Happy seems to use stats as it suits him...here they are meaningless yet when it comes to Aaron and metres after contact.. (a stat not recorded btw) they prove he is also useless..
My argument with Woods is too often he touches the ball in the red zone , doubt too many could argue with that
Woods has trouble passing the ball at all.
Not really true, Woods has been 3rd highest or better for offloads in the team 2014-2017.

They don't publish stats on distribution, but I'd encourage you to watch how many times Woods passes before the line as well, it would be multiple times per match.
Yeah if you can handle putting yourself through the Canberra game Woods passed the ball a lot. It was actually quite effective with Ava running off his hip getting the ball and making an extra 5 or 6 metres a few times (this was in the first 30 or so minutes of the game). He also dished off as first receiver a couple of times.

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