Balmain 80s/90s

Balmain Tigers and Western Suburbs Magpies Junior Development Discussion
tigerbenji
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Re: Balmain 80s/90s

Post by tigerbenji » Mon 14 May, 2018 8:09 am

I am positive Jones coached for nothing, Just couldnt coach.


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Post by tigerbenji » Mon 14 May, 2018 8:19 am

Its funny isnt it, i thought Grant played 1st grade as well.

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innsaneink
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Post by innsaneink » Mon 14 May, 2018 9:07 am

Mention of Darren Clarke reminds me of Jeff Fenech having a stint with Parra, thought he played first grade but no mention in the stats site of him.
I remember footage of him, think he played wing, in headgear and huge shoulder pads

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happy tiger
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Post by happy tiger » Mon 14 May, 2018 9:09 am

My reasoning

Money and the full time professional game

80's many players still working was their major income , money from football was secondary so being happy at a club was most important

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Tiger Steve
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Post by Tiger Steve » Mon 14 May, 2018 9:16 am

TigerTiger wrote:
Mon 14 May, 2018 12:08 am
Tiger Steve wrote:
Sun 13 May, 2018 11:30 pm
Yossarian wrote:
Sun 13 May, 2018 11:27 pm
Yep he got a stack of media attention. I watched many of those reggies games he played. Everyone thought he'd get the ball and sprint off for a try. He rarely got the space or service to do much. Scored a few tries but his defence was dodgy from memory. He never looked like he was going to be called up.
Well I’ll be stuffed if I know what I’m remembering because the memory is vivid but can’t argue against your figures. I can still de Elias spraying him over the pass. Got me stuffed
Maybe it was in a first grade trial game?
The mid week games had ended by then (I think?)
Yeah that’s what I think as well - was awake last night trying to figure it out!!
“Peanuts! Get ya peanuts - in the shell or sugar coated!” Leichhardt memories.


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Post by jirskyr » Mon 14 May, 2018 9:40 am

Yossarian wrote:
Sun 13 May, 2018 10:18 pm
Yeah Freeman was forced out to accommodate Smith. Jones being Jones he had his favourites and guys like Freeman and Jack (voluntarily got forced out).

What happened? The club was never wealthy but Barnes was an effective administrator. 89 we should have won the comp, 90 we made the finals. Then Jones comes in. 91 we don't win a game for the first 7 or so rounds. After that we got going but it was too late. 92 and 93 the Jones effect hits. He can't coach a RL team and it shows. His tactics are poor, his game knowledge non-existence. The team effectively coached itself. 94 he's replaced by Junior. All Jones' favourites go and most of the old guard have retired or moved on. Only Siro and Jack returning from England. 94 we run last and never had the cash to turn to around. Keep in mind the comp goes to 20 teams so it's harder to get talent with new clubs spending money. Then Super Lesgue hits and it's downhill until the JV.
Good account.

Tigers may have had a star pack in the late 80s, but the club wasn't able to bring in new stars in the 90s as the older guys started winding up. Junior Pearce was replaced in 1991 by John Elias. 93 had Blocker in 93 by Derek McVey and Garry Jack by Morvin Edwards; Mark Geyer that year totally did not work out. Elias retired in 1994 and was replaced by Stephen Scahill (who? indeed).

We were already last in 1994 and then the ARL introduces 4 new sides.

I can't clearly recall the strategies of Alan Jones, I was only a teenager, but I remember clearly the gradual attrition of star players. I remember running out some really really ordinary teams, and the odd Paul Sironen-class player wasn't going to change the result against star-studded teams like Broncos.

I also remember in 1997 when they were talking about re-merging the two league comps, and there was an account in the paper about what each team had to offer the new NRL, because they had to cut teams. For Balmain, the only positives were Tim Brasher and Leichhardt Oval - and that was the same year he mucked about with his contract and ended up going to Souths.

Panthers had a similar sort of problem, from 1st to 9th 91-92, then only making 1 finals in the following 7 years. Raiders on the other hand won in 94 and were able to rotate in pretty good replacements for their retiring stars. I think it helped a lot to be a dominant team in that period 94-96, when all the best players and sides got the preferences, and all the poor teams stayed with the ARL, playing with ordinary players and a half-arsed comp at the bottom end.

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Post by gallagher » Mon 14 May, 2018 9:55 am

innsaneink wrote:
Mon 14 May, 2018 9:07 am
Mention of Darren Clarke reminds me of Jeff Fenech having a stint with Parra, thought he played first grade but no mention in the stats site of him.
I remember footage of him, think he played wing, in headgear and huge shoulder pads
I saw him play hooker in reserve grade, He ease so far out of his league. You're right about the big pads and headgear

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Post by colmcd » Mon 14 May, 2018 10:50 am

bathursttiger wrote:
Sun 13 May, 2018 10:12 pm
gallagher wrote:
Sun 13 May, 2018 10:06 pm
bathursttiger wrote:
Sun 13 May, 2018 10:02 pm
gallagher wrote:
Sun 13 May, 2018 9:43 pm


But how did they get to the point that he was the best option as coach? Or even consideed?
Our next door neighbour when we were growing up, worked with Jones.
He knew that I was a huge Tiger fan, he told me that Jones would give to Tigers a premiership but would wreck the club.
He didn't deliver a premiership, but he certainly had a hand in destroying the club.
I'd imagine whoever appointed him as coach doesn't admit to it.
From what I can remember there was a train of thought, that he would be able to bring a lot of corporate dollars to the club with his connections.
Those stats don't tell the whole story. Jones was a horrid Coach.

Basically he coached the Wallabies after coaching high school Rugby. With Rugby he knew he could not coach the forwards, so he hired a Forwards head coach. With the backs he worked on skills and skill development. He wasn't very strategic.

While the Wallabies had great success, many in the team hated him. He picked favourites and lost the confidence of many others.

Balmain was Nr2 on the ladder and picked Jones. That I do not know why.

Jones was lost in league and did not bother learning the sport. He would often put his Nr 1,2,3 up front and have his 13 going fullback. He moved the team to an afternoon schedule instead of morning training which annoyed players. He had elite League players in Blocker, Elias, etc but kept teaching skills and fitness rather then game plans.

He said if Balmain was not NR1 that year he would quit. He was a train wreck. Big mouths who can't back up what they say tend to be that way.

*this is from Christopher Hitchins biography of Jones.

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Post by LeichhardtTiger » Mon 14 May, 2018 11:21 am

colmcd wrote:
Mon 14 May, 2018 10:50 am
bathursttiger wrote:
Sun 13 May, 2018 10:12 pm
gallagher wrote:
Sun 13 May, 2018 10:06 pm
bathursttiger wrote:
Sun 13 May, 2018 10:02 pm


Our next door neighbour when we were growing up, worked with Jones.
He knew that I was a huge Tiger fan, he told me that Jones would give to Tigers a premiership but would wreck the club.
He didn't deliver a premiership, but he certainly had a hand in destroying the club.
I'd imagine whoever appointed him as coach doesn't admit to it.
From what I can remember there was a train of thought, that he would be able to bring a lot of corporate dollars to the club with his connections.
Those stats don't tell the whole story. Jones was a horrid Coach.

Basically he coached the Wallabies after coaching high school Rugby. With Rugby he knew he could not coach the forwards, so he hired a Forwards head coach. With the backs he worked on skills and skill development. He wasn't very strategic.

While the Wallabies had great success, many in the team hated him. He picked favourites and lost the confidence of many others.

Balmain was Nr2 on the ladder and picked Jones. That I do not know why.

Jones was lost in league and did not bother learning the sport. He would often put his Nr 1,2,3 up front and have his 13 going fullback. He moved the team to an afternoon schedule instead of morning training which annoyed players. He had elite League players in Blocker, Elias, etc but kept teaching skills and fitness rather then game plans.

He said if Balmain was not NR1 that year he would quit. He was a train wreck. Big mouths who can't back up what they say tend to be that way.

*this is from Christopher Hitchins biography of Jones.
A blind man could've coached the Wallabies back in 84 with Mark Ella, Nick Farr Jones, David Campese, Simon Poidevan, Roger Gould, Topo, Michael Lynagh, Steve Williams, Tom Lawton, Andrew Slack etc.
There are two kinds of people in the world - those that live in Balmain and those that wished they did.

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Post by tigerap » Mon 14 May, 2018 11:29 am

innsaneink wrote:
Sun 13 May, 2018 10:01 pm
Is it true he wasnt paid to coach?
I read somewhere he did it for free
On the condition he was always in the change room when the boys were showering....

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Post by 851 » Mon 14 May, 2018 11:46 am

LeichhardtTiger wrote:
Sun 13 May, 2018 10:10 pm
http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/teams ... aches.html

Balmain in the 90's
Jones was at the Tigers 91-93 36.4% win rate
Junior Pearce was there from 94-99 36% win rate


http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/teams ... aches.html

Tim Sheens 48.8% win rate

http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/teams ... aches.html

Magpies In the 90's
Raudonikas 33.6%
Warren Ryan 44%

Warren Ryan at Balmain 89-90 65.8%

Jones was 3% better than Tommy R

Pearce "improved" to 42.3% as Westsigers coach 2nd only to Sheens - Cleary is at 41.4%

Stats c/- http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/ Great effort by them!
Junior was a great player, but a crap coach, how he got the gig for the first WestsTigers season has always baffled and annoyed me.
Go hard or go home

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Post by jadtiger » Mon 14 May, 2018 12:18 pm

851 wrote:
Mon 14 May, 2018 11:46 am
LeichhardtTiger wrote:
Sun 13 May, 2018 10:10 pm
http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/teams ... aches.html

Balmain in the 90's
Jones was at the Tigers 91-93 36.4% win rate
Junior Pearce was there from 94-99 36% win rate


http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/teams ... aches.html

Tim Sheens 48.8% win rate

http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/teams ... aches.html

Magpies In the 90's
Raudonikas 33.6%
Warren Ryan 44%

Warren Ryan at Balmain 89-90 65.8%

Jones was 3% better than Tommy R

Pearce "improved" to 42.3% as Westsigers coach 2nd only to Sheens - Cleary is at 41.4%

Stats c/- http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/ Great effort by them!
Junior was a great player, but a crap coach, how he got the gig for the first WestsTigers season has always baffled and annoyed me.
Out of the 2 coaches at the time he was by far the better choice,however with the merger WT should have looked for a neutral.

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851
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Post by 851 » Mon 14 May, 2018 1:02 pm

jadtiger wrote:
Mon 14 May, 2018 12:18 pm
851 wrote:
Mon 14 May, 2018 11:46 am
LeichhardtTiger wrote:
Sun 13 May, 2018 10:10 pm
http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/teams ... aches.html

Balmain in the 90's
Jones was at the Tigers 91-93 36.4% win rate
Junior Pearce was there from 94-99 36% win rate


http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/teams ... aches.html

Tim Sheens 48.8% win rate

http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/teams ... aches.html

Magpies In the 90's
Raudonikas 33.6%
Warren Ryan 44%

Warren Ryan at Balmain 89-90 65.8%

Jones was 3% better than Tommy R

Pearce "improved" to 42.3% as Westsigers coach 2nd only to Sheens - Cleary is at 41.4%

Stats c/- http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/ Great effort by them!
Junior was a great player, but a crap coach, how he got the gig for the first WestsTigers season has always baffled and annoyed me.
Out of the 2 coaches at the time he was by far the better choice,however with the merger WT should have looked for a neutral.
100% agree, a neutral coach should have been chosen, as neither coaches had a glowing record, it would have been better and smarter, two things previous boards new nothing about.
Go hard or go home

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Post by Abraham » Mon 14 May, 2018 1:13 pm

Pretty sure that the original agreement was that Artie Beetson was supposed to be his No 2 and take on the day to day running of the side.

But Artie got cold feet for some reason, and Jones was suddenly out of his depth with no-one to lean on.

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Post by yeti » Mon 14 May, 2018 2:06 pm

After each successive loss, Jones would trot out the old "the dogs are barking but the caravan moves on" line - whatever that means!
Numbskull.

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Post by jirskyr » Mon 14 May, 2018 2:21 pm

colmcd wrote:
Mon 14 May, 2018 10:50 am
Balmain was Nr2 on the ladder and picked Jones. That I do not know why.
Ah as to the "why", I believe I do know the explanation. Story is that Tigers were struggling to pay the bills and Alan Jones could guarantee sponsorship and commercial coverage via his radio/advertising contacts. As said before, reports are also he did not take a coaching fee, or at least not much of a contract, so he was cheap and a strong business case.

Obviously long-run a sustained lack of success does dent any other positive business operations, but I believe that was one of the strongest selling points.

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Post by Tiger Steve » Mon 14 May, 2018 2:27 pm

This thread has got me thinking. We were in 88 and 89 grandfinals. I assume this would have been good for profitability. How did we go from that to close to broke in under 5 years??
“Peanuts! Get ya peanuts - in the shell or sugar coated!” Leichhardt memories.

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Post by bigsiro » Mon 14 May, 2018 3:24 pm

I think it's funny that everyone points to Alan Jones.

But that's because it's true.

He single-handedly destroyed the soul of the club. Will never forgive him.
Make Wests Tigers Great Again

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