Stefano Utoikamanu #241

Halbrowne61 said:
Our coaching team just can’t develop players like that. And it’s not just Benji, several have tried and failed.
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It's interesting Hal.
I've thought that for a while too.

Is it that we can't develop players? I'm not so sure.
Maybe there is an alternative perspective. A sad run of poor decisions, mismanagement and bad luck. Very bad luck.
  • Maybe we recruited poorly, particularly in players that were past their prime and were never going to develop further.
  • Maybe we invested long term in trying to develop players that never reached their potential.
  • Maybe in the earlier parts of the decade we couldn't retain star players like Teddy and Moses, due to our losing culture, lack of foresight and poor salary cap management ( ie vs our ability to develop).
  • Maybe we simply haven't had good enough juniors come through.
Remember, during this decade of disaster, we have had some accomplished coaches. Say what we want about Cleary, Maguire and Sheens - they are renowned for development and are no slouches.

In the last 10 years, I'd argue that we simply haven't had the quality of cattle to develop, or mount an effective challenge. Note that with the exception of Teddy and Moses, not a single one of the many players who have left WT were developed into world beaters by their other clubs (JAC was only with us for one season).

Given this context, saying our coaching team can't develop players might be an all too often and easily stated tag, one which is perhaps brandished unfairly.
 
bigsiro said:
It's interesting Hal.
I've thought that for a while too.

Is it that we can't develop players? I'm not so sure.
Maybe there is an alternative perspective. A sad run of poor decisions, mismanagement and bad luck. Very bad luck.
  • Maybe we recruited poorly, particularly in players that were past their prime and were never going to develop further.
  • Maybe we invested long term in trying to develop players that never reached their potential.
  • Maybe in the earlier parts of the decade we couldn't retain star players like Teddy and Moses, due to our losing culture, lack of foresight and poor salary cap management ( ie vs our ability to develop).
  • Maybe we simply haven't had good enough juniors come through.
Click to expand...
not bad luck ..

Incompetence is not bad luck
 
Well that's 3 of our starting pack gone.
Papali'i, Bateman & Stefano.
Albeit Bateman  may return.

Hopefully Richo has been quieting working some magic behind the scenes and we've got some astute recruitments incoming, otherwise we'll be lining up with a Holden Cup like line up.
 
Bellamy rarely gets it wrong. Two steps forward three back for us.
The salary cap allows the strong to remain that way and pick the eyes out of the competition and when you are the Sydney club that is the least desirable, I can't see how we get off the bottom without relying on a group that comes through together and then the challenge will be to retain them. We know already that Galvin has the yips.
We may be able to motivate some players by offering money but all that results in is a screwed up cap and unrealistic expectations of what an individual player can add to a squad and what a coach is able to achieve when opposition teams have more depth and quality.
And new club coming in only makes getting off the bottom tougher
 
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Telltails said:
Bellamy rarely gets it wrong. Two steps forward three back for us.
The salary cap allows the strong to remain that way and pick the eyes out of the competition and when you are the Sydney club that is the least desirable, I can't see how we get off the bottom without relying on a group that comes through together and then the challenge will be to retain them. We know already that Galvin has the yips.
We may be able to motivate some players by offering money but all that results in is a screwed up cap and unrealistic expectations of what an individual player can add to a squad and what a coach is able to achieve when opposition teams have more depth and quality.
And new club coming in only makes getting off the bottom tougher
Click to expand...

mate … we can’t continue to blame “the system” for the Wests Tigers continued failings …other clubs have been able to get off the bottom…

The past decade they have continued to pick dud players and coaches …who haven’t been able to get the job done ..whilst they have been here anyway

Bateman the latest in that long line

And if anyone wants to mention Cleary… he walked away remember?
 
Spartan117 said:
Im.heart broken but lets be honest.

Stefano will flourish at the storm.

Amazing culture and an even better coach.
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For 1 whole year before he takes up a different role
within the organisation. I think he'll actually regret
it if he leaves. I'd rather be the man than a role player
 
Kaito said:
For 1 whole year before he takes up a different role
within the organisation. I think he'll actually regret
it if he leaves. I'd rather be the man than a role player
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Don’t forget … unlike us he actually gets to see the WT organisation from the inside and up close …

He seemingly doesn’t have much confidence in the future … he is also not the only one choosing to leave …. so I think it’s very optimistic for us on the outside too.
 
Tom Shines said:
Don’t forget … unlike us he actually gets to see the WT organisation from the inside and up close …

He seemingly doesn’t have much confidence in the future … he is also not the only one choosing to leave …. so I think it’s very optimistic for us on the outside too.
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Think you're being a bit paranoid. Hope you managed
to get some rest last night haha. Either way, we'll
know in a few hours, there's a lot of factors at play —
I like how everything is hush hush though I will say,
gives me confidence that there are things happening
in the background that fans/media don't know about
 
Kaito said:
Think you're being a bit paranoid. Hope you managed
to get some rest last night haha. Either way, we'll
know in a few hours, there's a lot of factors at play —
I like how everything is hush hush though I will say,
gives me confidence that there are things happening
in the background that fans/media don't know about
Click to expand...


I’ve been around long enough to know that no news doesn’t necessarily mean good news ..haha
 
Kaito said:
Think you're being a bit paranoid. Hope you managed
to get some rest last night haha. Either way, we'll
know in a few hours, there's a lot of factors at play —
I like how everything is hush hush though I will say,
gives me confidence that there are things happening
in the background that fans/media don't know about
Click to expand...
I’m hearing every one we attempt to make offers are not keen , no takers so far , no new signings so far bar Luai and Turuva , that is pretty poor as all we are seeing is players bale on us , Papi , Stef , Bateman and I would be worried about Pole who is from Melbourne , come November he’s a target as well
 
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Tom Shines said:
mate … we can’t continue to blame “the system” for the Wests Tigers continued failings …other clubs have been able to get off the bottom…

The past decade they have continued to pick dud players and coaches …who haven’t been able to get the job done ..whilst they have been here anyway

Bateman the latest in that long line

And if anyone wants to mention Cleary… he walked away remember?
Click to expand...
Agee with your previous post and part of this that the repeated poor decision making was down to incompetence. But only in regards to picking dud players.
I disagree that the coaches we continuously picked have been duds.
When we hired them:
-Benji was a punt and it’s too early to call him a dud.
-Maguire was not a dud.
-Cleary was not a dud.
-Jason Taylor came with a solid resume of assistant coaching. He didn’t work out and we got rid fairly quick. He ended up being a dud, but at the time was an educated punt.
-Potter was never given a proper chance.
-Sheens was not a dud.
 
Tom Shines said:
mate … we can’t continue to blame “the system” for the Wests Tigers continued failings …other clubs have been able to get off the bottom…

The past decade they have continued to pick dud players and coaches …who haven’t been able to get the job done ..whilst they have been here anyway

Bateman the latest in that long line

And if anyone wants to mention Cleary… he walked away remember?
Click to expand...
Not suggesting for a minute this club has been run well - but there are clubs in this competition that will never experience a rebuild that lasts years because their strength allows them to buy the players they need to replace the ones no longer valued, while still retaining a wealth of talent under the same salary cap. They may not win the comp but they will be around where they need to be went it counts
And as a Sydney club we offer no point of difference against the other clubs other than we are perceived as perennial losers with money to spend.
There is only so many Sydney clubs Gould can rebuild and we are not one of them.
 
bigsiro said:
It's interesting Hal.
I've thought that for a while too.

Is it that we can't develop players? I'm not so sure.
Maybe there is an alternative perspective. A sad run of poor decisions, mismanagement and bad luck. Very bad luck.
  • Maybe we recruited poorly, particularly in players that were past their prime and were never going to develop further.
  • Maybe we invested long term in trying to develop players that never reached their potential.
  • Maybe in the earlier parts of the decade we couldn't retain star players like Teddy and Moses, due to our losing culture, lack of foresight and poor salary cap management ( ie vs our ability to develop).
  • Maybe we simply haven't had good enough juniors come through.
Remember, during this decade of disaster, we have had some accomplished coaches. Say what we want about Cleary, Maguire and Sheens - they are renowned for development and are no slouches.

In the last 10 years, I'd argue that we simply haven't had the quality of cattle to develop, or mount an effective challenge. Note that with the exception of Teddy and Moses, not a single one of the many players who have left WT were developed into world beaters by their other clubs (JAC was only with us for one season).

Given this context, saying our coaching team can't develop players might be an all too often and easily stated tag, one which is perhaps brandished unfairly.
Click to expand...
Too many of our remarkable juniors have dominated age based competitions due to size.

Once against men, they don’t have the work ethic, skills and attitude to take the next step.
 
426Tlgerland said:
I’m hearing every one we attempt to make offers are not keen , no takers so far , no new signings so far bar Luai and Turuva , that is pretty poor as all we are seeing is players bale on us , Papi , Stef , Bateman and I would be worried about Pole who is from Melbourne , come November he’s a target as well
Click to expand...
Where are you hearing this?

And who have the club made offers to?
 
Pascoes_barber said:
Where are you hearing this?

And who have the club made offers to?
Click to expand...
Was in one of our other threads , no club or player mentioned just negative response to our offers apparently , don’t hold me to it just whats been said , but to be honest , no news is good news , well not all the time , I feel the info is correct and we have not got anyone yet
 
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