End of season surge complicates things

Eddie

New member
Joined
Jul 14, 2009
Messages
3,910
Don't get me wrong guys, its great to see the side playing some decent footy, and stringing some wins together. The problem is there is still an 80-90% chance that we will end 2009 outside the Top 8 and without a winning percentage above 50%. Now deep down everyone is happy that we are winning and everyone would rather come 9th and then come last but it does present a conundrum with regards to the coaching staff

If we end the season with a few more wins and finish 9th, then Sheens escapes the wrath from the media andis probably praised to the hilt for turning our season around. It also allows him and the club to throw up the excuses about injuries and close losses. The fact remains Sheens has basically murdered our season with his stubborn attitude towards players in key positions. As has been pointed out by all and sundry in here we should of been playing with this formation a long long time ago. In time to make some noise in 2009.

Anyway, its exciting that we are now a roll and the boys are playing good footy. But also very frustrating. it is all well and good to think and hope that this late season surge carries momentum into next season. However we know things don't work like that. There is a very good chance Sheens will stuff it up again at the start of next season.
 

alex

New member
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
3,748
Location
Haberfield
I have faith in the team but other sides such as Parramatta and Souths may cause a few problems for us trying to get into the 8\. Souths have that 1 point advantage because of the draw and also have the luxury of playing the Roosters this week. And for the Eels, their last two wins have shown they have also switched on and should have an easy win over Cronulla next weekend where we have to battle it with Manly.

And with Manly hovering around the bottom of the 8 .. they still have Brett Stewart to return.
 

Tigerdave

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
13,454
Location
Lismore
Not too sure he will completely escape, as he's already 'apologised' for not making the halves switch earlier. Here's hoping that the form continues and that no real changes are made for next year.
 

westTAHger

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 13, 2009
Messages
5,151
Location
With the Groovy Ghoulies
@Tigerdave said:
Not too sure he will completely escape, as he's already 'apologised' for not making the halves switch earlier. Here's hoping that the form continues and that no real changes are made for next year.

would not be suprised if new CEO puts it plain and simple, something like " Tim your job is to get the team into the finals. if you do not then you will have too look elsewhere to be coaching first grade beyond 2010."
 

tiger05

New member
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
1,692
Howe long did it take most of us to realise Morris should be no where near the halves ? Has this been the major reason we have not made the finals the past 2 & now probably 3 seasons ?

I think Sheens has been the best coach this club has had and I will always view him as a top quality coach however his poor selections have killed this team over the last couple of seasons.

We need to make the finals and if the coach is one of the reasons we aren't making the finals then he should go.
 

Tiger_Al

New member
Joined
Jul 13, 2009
Messages
354
All this Sheens bashing… right here right now if Sheens was to be sacked, name me a better coach????????????????

I think you guys are dreaming, Sheens is a great coach & a great fit for the tigers...

Yes he probably made the Moltzen to 7 move a fair bit later than most wanted, but I agree 100% that Moltzen was not ready for the 7 at the start of the year & the confidence he gained playing 1st grade in the 1 has been invaluable to him now he is in the 7...

How about you get off the Sheens bashing & just support the team with no other motives than want ing the team to play well.......
 

tiger05

New member
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
1,692
@Tiger_Al said:
Yes he probably made the Moltzen to 7 move a fair bit later than most wanted, but I agree 100% that Moltzen was not ready for the 7 at the start of the year & the confidence he gained playing 1st grade in the 1 has been invaluable to him now he is in the 7…

Morris wasn't up to a first grade half since he came to the club - yet Sheens persisted with him for 2 & 1/2 seasons. I am failing to see how this is acceptable in a professional sport especially when Moltzen has always looked significantly better then Morris in the halves.

I like Sheens but geez if he had made this change earlier we might have made the finals at least once over the last couple of seasons. If we make it this year maybe I'll change my opinion.
 

Sabre

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 10, 2009
Messages
8,151
@westTAHger said:
@Tigerdave said:
Not too sure he will completely escape, as he's already 'apologised' for not making the halves switch earlier. Here's hoping that the form continues and that no real changes are made for next year.

would not be suprised if new CEO puts it plain and simple, something like " Tim your job is to get the team into the finals. if you do not then you will have too look elsewhere to be coaching first grade beyond 2010."

Humphries has already said Sheens will see out his contract.
 

badger

New member
Joined
Jul 13, 2009
Messages
241
@Tiger_Al said:
All this Sheens bashing… right here right now if Sheens was to be sacked, name me a better coach????????????????

I think you guys are dreaming, Sheens is a great coach & a great fit for the tigers...

Yes he probably made the Moltzen to 7 move a fair bit later than most wanted, but I agree 100% that Moltzen was not ready for the 7 at the start of the year & the confidence he gained playing 1st grade in the 1 has been invaluable to him now he is in the 7...

How about you get off the Sheens bashing & just support the team with no other motives than want ing the team to play well.......

Great thought and very well put. My thoughts exactly
 

supercoach

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 13, 2009
Messages
9,029
We all knew the first year Johnny M came to tiger town he was no Cooper Cronk, yet our coach rotated him Farah and Marshall through the n07 role with little or no success, than mid season 2009 he gets this brain wave–lets play a no1 at 1 a no6 at 6 a no7 at 7 a no9 at 9 and lets play our most versatile player at 14\. Bingo, the teams looks sharp and capable.

Okay before we start slapping Sheens on the back, lets see where our season ends and lets see where we are this time next year. I thinks Sheens has a lot to offer but just maybe his time is up in tiger town. Now who is better thats the 100 to one question
 

Geo

Moderator
Staff member
Forum Leader
Joined
Jul 10, 2009
Messages
47,750
Location
Campbelltown NSW..
@supercoach said:
We all knew the first year Johnny M came to tiger town he was no Cooper Cronk, yet our coach rotated him Farah and Marshall through the n07 role with little or no success, than mid season 2009 he gets this brain wave–lets play a no1 at 1 a no6 at 6 a no7 at 7 a no9 at 9 and lets play our most versatile player at 14\. Bingo, the teams looks sharp and capable.

Okay before we start slapping Sheens on the back, lets see where our season ends and lets see where we are this time next year. I thinks Sheens has a lot to offer but just maybe his time is up in tiger town. Now who is better thats the 100 to one question

Yes that is correct….but there where other factors that caused Sheens to persist with J Mo in the halves.....

Benji Marshall has been ineffective for 2 and a bit seasons....Farah carried his back all his career until surgery was the only option....

'06 Hodgson, Marshall, Prince, Farah
'07 Hodgson, Marshall, Morris, Farah
'08 Hodgson, Marshall, Morris/Head, Farah
'09 Moltzen, Morris, Marshall, Farah

now.....Gallant, Marshall, Moltzen, Farah is the combination that best suits the Gameplan.....We got it now ....a lot have been calling for it lets enjoy watching it ..

If anything the development of Sheens protoge Marshall is the reason for failure rather than his stubborness with J Mo....Oh careful better not critisize the Massiah to much....
 

DonnyBrasco

New member
Joined
Jul 13, 2009
Messages
615
Poor Morris,

Hes a real goer, puts in 100% every time he walks onto the field. maybe hes not the best in the halves but some of the other players should show his guts
 

AndTheKungFoSing

New member
Joined
Jul 10, 2009
Messages
2,579
Location
Behind You!
I'm happy for Sheens to stay at the club… When you loose a player like Princey... you can't just bounce back! I think think the Tigers are going to kill it next season, we've made some smart buys and if we can sign a good solid prop... we'll kill it next year! We've been mighty unlucky this season and that is NOT the coaches fault
 

tiger05

New member
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
1,692
@Geo. said:
If anything the development of Sheens protoge Marshall is the reason for failure rather than his stubborness with J Mo….Oh careful better not critisize the Massiah to much....

Geo - if marshall needs to cop it so be it but blaming Marshall for Morris inept play in the halves makes no sense.

On Marshall I'd put his contribution to the team this year at or above Farahs. Ellis imo has been our best player and then Marshall or Farah and I can't split them.

Morris has been an utter failure in the halves and I think at lock or utility he could have been sensational - playing him in the halves for so long can only be Sheens fault.

Look how much better Morris has been the last couple of games and how much better we have been as a team with a natural half playing in the halves.
 

alexaki

New member
Joined
Jul 11, 2009
Messages
5,288
@tiger05 said:
Howe long did it take most of us to realise Morris should be no where near the halves ? Has this been the major reason we have not made the finals the past 2 & now probably 3 seasons ?

I think Sheens has been the best coach this club has had and I will always view him as a top quality coach however his poor selections have killed this team over the last couple of seasons.

We need to make the finals and if the coach is one of the reasons we aren't making the finals then he should go.

Totally agree!!!
 

Geo

Moderator
Staff member
Forum Leader
Joined
Jul 10, 2009
Messages
47,750
Location
Campbelltown NSW..
@tiger05 said:
@Geo. said:
If anything the development of Sheens protoge Marshall is the reason for failure rather than his stubborness with J Mo….Oh careful better not critisize the Massiah to much....

Geo - if marshall needs to cop it so be it but blaming Marshall for Morris inept play in the halves makes no sense.

On Marshall I'd put his contribution to the team this year at or above Farahs. Ellis imo has been our best player and then Marshall or Farah and I can't split them.

Morris has been an utter failure in the halves and I think at lock or utility he could have been sensational - playing him in the halves for so long can only be Sheens fault.

Look how much better Morris has been the last couple of games and how much better we have been as a team with a natural half playing in the halves.

Im not blaming Marshall for Morris enept play in the halves….I'm blaming Sheens for having to persist with J Mo in the halves because he has had to build a team around a player who is......I don't really know what describes Benji....

I'm a huge Benji Marshall fan I love that he wears a Wests Tigers guresey....I ask you who has Sheens tried to build the team around since '05? from where I sit Farah and Marshall....

I feel often to that Morris contribution has been underrated due to the performance of our pigs over the last 3 years but that's a whole other topic..

If you look at all the teams I've put up over the years ....14\. Morris has always been my choice....but I have the luxury of watching as a fan with not a lot of knowlegde as to what things effect the selection of a first grade team.....

I agree Marshall has turned the corner this year.....yet after 5 years he is still a work in progress.....Wests Tigers performance over the past three years......pretty similar.....I wise man told me keep Marshall and Farah on the field and we make the 8....Well consistancy from Benji Marshall for the rest of the year and I reckon we will...
 

Juro

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
2,858
All the people demanding Sheens' head on a pole constantly say we have only made the finals 1 year in the 5 he has been with us, going on 6.

If that is their only argument, having us make the finals this year would improve it to 2/6\. Still not great. But he still has another year still to go on his contract.

If we were to get into the finals again next year, that would be 3/7\. Not too bad.

Should we reappoint him based on that? Depends on the other options available to us at the time.

==================================

Anyway, this is making a couple of pretty big assumptions in making the finals this year and next. We'll cross the bridge when we come to it.
 

tiger_sean

New member
Joined
Jul 10, 2009
Messages
410
Location
Brisbane
@Juro said:
All the people demanding Sheens' head on a pole constantly say we have only made the finals 1 year in the 5 he has been with us, going on 6.

If that is their only argument, having us make the finals this year would improve it to 2/6\. Still not great. But he still has another year still to go on his contract.

If we were to get into the finals again next year, that would be 3/7\. Not too bad.

Should we reappoint him based on that? Depends on the other options available to us at the time.

==================================

Anyway, this is making a couple of pretty big assumptions in making the finals this year and next. We'll cross the bridge when we come to it.

I also think it is harsh to include the first two seasons (2003, 2004) Sheens was in charge as failures.
If you look at it, these two seasons were key to our premiership success in 05.
In 03 Sheens first year, he blooded a whole lot of new players (Marshall, Farah, Gibbs, Halatau)
In 04 he bought a bunch of players (prince, richards, payten, hodgson) which in that year started to gel.
And it proved the perfect mix in 2005.
 
Top