Have Wests Tigers missed the boat?

[MightyMaggy]

About eight years ago, my son worked as a Development Officer for the ARL for three years, working out of the office of an NRL team (NOT Wests Tigers). As a result,he had an insight into the workings of many of the Sydney clubs.
There appeared to be a real opportunity for Wests Tigers to "build" an academy for junior footballers, which would be the vehicle to run a junior development program. By doing this and moving the more skilled players through the "grades" to the NRL team, there would be an attraction for good young players to look at the Wests Tigers Academy more favourably than other teams. This would have given the Tigers a better chance to build for the future.
I wrote to the CEO at the time with this suggestion but I did not even receive an acknowledgement that my correspondance had been noted.
Today, I read the plans Penrith have to build an academy to help gve them a better future for their football club.
Have we missed the boat now?

 

[Sabre]

Hasn't really worked for the Titans.

 

[Chris]

I think we're doing ok with our juniors as is. It's more about having the right people identifying the right talent at the right time and nurturing them through the grades.

 

[Tiger_Watto]

Having schools covered in the Campbelltown Region; Ryde Region and Keebra Park is a very good process, so I would say the current system is working well… The Schools Programs is apparently more cost effective also.

Regardless, in todays current climate, the idea of Developing Juniors Within is somewhat flawed. The ARLC needs to provide incentives/guarantees to NRL Franchises who do develop juniors and until this is set up, the costs of junior development need to be placed in perspective.

An over investment into an Acadamy, could have far reaching effects on a club that doesnt have a Leagues Club attached!

 

[southerntiger]

Dont believe in Academies. Having the best Academy in footballing history hasnt helped West Ham win squat. They just develop them and lose them to Man U, Chelsea etc - Lampard, Carrrick, Ferdinand, Cole, Defoe - were all part of the great West Ham academy and were lost to West Ham before they peaked as players.

A combination of youth development and recruitment is the best way to succeed. An Academy would become a white elephant that would take resources away from keeping and buying players who have already developed.

No disrespect, but how were you intending the club would finance this dream of yours?

 

[happy_tiger]

Dont believe in Academies. Having the best Academy in footballing history hasnt helped West Ham win squat. They just develop them and lose them to Man U, Chelsea etc - Lampard, Carrrick, Ferdinand Cole, Defoe - were all part of the great West Ham academy and were lost to West Ham before they peaked as players.

A combination of youth development and recruitment is the best way to succeed. An Academy would become a white elephant that would take resources away from keeping and buying players who have already developed.

No disrespect, but how were you intending the club would finance this dream of yours?

Don't get me started on those poachers in the EPL Southern Tiger :rant

People still need to realize that in the end the salary cap controls a lot of what many clubs are forced to do with their Juniors

Even with our current system we will have to let some of the most talented up and coming halves in the country go to other clubs in the near future

 

[southerntiger]

Dont believe in Academies. Having the best Academy in footballing history hasnt helped West Ham win squat. They just develop them and lose them to Man U, Chelsea etc - Lampard, Carrrick, Ferdinand Cole, Defoe - were all part of the great West Ham academy and were lost to West Ham before they peaked as players.

A combination of youth development and recruitment is the best way to succeed. An Academy would become a white elephant that would take resources away from keeping and buying players who have already developed.

No disrespect, but how were you intending the club would finance this dream of yours?

Don't get me started on those poachers in the EPL Southern Tiger :rant

People still need to realize that in the end the salary cap controls a lot of what many clubs are forced to do with their Juniors

Even with our current system we will have to let some of the most talented up and coming halves in the country go to other clubs in the near future

Exactly Happy. We only have a very limited number of first grade spots. Unlike in the EPL we dont have a transfer fee system here, meaning clubs are not rewarded for developing young players. Overspending on development would be folly.

 

[Goose]

Dont believe in Academies. Having the best Academy in footballing history hasnt helped West Ham win squat. They just develop them and lose them to Man U, Chelsea etc - Lampard, Carrrick, Ferdinand Cole, Defoe - were all part of the great West Ham academy and were lost to West Ham before they peaked as players.

A combination of youth development and recruitment is the best way to succeed. An Academy would become a white elephant that would take resources away from keeping and buying players who have already developed.

No disrespect, but how were you intending the club would finance this dream of yours?

Don't get me started on those poachers in the EPL Southern Tiger :rant

People still need to realize that in the end the salary cap controls a lot of what many clubs are forced to do with their Juniors

Even with our current system we will have to let some of the most talented up and coming halves in the country go to other clubs in the near future

agree, but if you bring through your own juniors, you generally get a year or 2 of unders and too get a player to change clubs you in general have to pay more, you get more value for money with home grown players

 

[southerntiger]

Not sure you do Goose, when you factor in the development costs. Also for that 1 or 2 years at unders, you ordinarily have to put up with some inconsistent performances etc because they are still developing.

Lui is an example of this. He had some very ordinary games. By the time he left his development was complete and he was a much more consistent player. We let him go for obvious reasons unrelated to the point I am making but we would have had to compete with other clubs when his contract was up. That is, once he was a fully fledged first grader (when he was valuable), we were not going to get him for unders.

Not saying you shouldnt develop juniors, you obviously should, but teams have very rarely won a comp on the back of a team of rookies.

 

[supercoach]

The Wests Tigers probably have the best junior programs in place at present. Now from a cost point of view it is very debatable if its the best way to go. I remember a interview on the ABC with both Sheens and Bennett talking about the pros and cons of pumping money into junior programs and they said the Manly approach of sitting back and picking the eyes out of these kids when they had reached the required standard was probably a more effective method. They also said clubs in their charter needed to give the kids of their districts a chance to make it to the top so programs were essential but its all about getting the balance between elite imports and junior talent

 

[Goose]

Not sure you do Goose, when you factor in the development costs. Also for that 1 or 2 years at unders, you ordinarily have to put up with some inconsistent performances etc because they are still developing.

Lui is an example of this. He had some very ordinary games. By the time he left his development was complete and he was a much more consistent player. We let him go for obvious reasons unrelated to the point I am making but we would have had to compete with other clubs when his contract was up. That is, once he was a fully fledged first grader (when he was valuable), we were not going to get him for unders.

Not saying you shouldnt develop juniors, you obviously should, but teams have very rarely won a comp on the back of a team of rookies.

i meant value for salary cap money, and agree they are inconsistent in the early years, but generally perform above what you are paying them.

Most teams that are successful are jam packed of players they have bought through their system from the ground up (or near enough)

The most successful sides this decade certainly reflect that. Manly, Brisbane and Melbourne, even us Penrith and the Roosters of the early to mid 2000's were premiership winners full of players bought through our system.

 

[southerntiger]

Actually Melbourne has never been club full of juniors and neither has Manly. What Melbourne and Manly are very good at is isolating players from other catchment areas who are between 18 - 20 years of age. These arent juniors. Melbourne and Manly are the Man U and Chelsea of the NRL.

 

[Goose]

Actually Melbourne has never been club full of juniors and neither has Manly. What Melbourne and Manly are very good at is isolating players from other catchment areas who are between 18 - 20 years of age. These arent juniors. Melbourne and Manly are the Man U and Chelsea of the NRL.

understand your point, and agree to a point. The age of relying solely on "your junior catchment" are well gone. They are full of players they have bought through their system from an early age, as you say 18-20 (it is actually prob a fraction earlier, but lets not argue semantics)

But strongly believe the key to long term success is bringing in the best kids anywhere from 16 up, the longer you leave it, the easier to identiy, but the more competition. I think the key is getting them into your system well before first grade.
The way Melbourne was able to get great kids is obviously by paying them double what anyone else could as they ignored the salary cap at all levels and simply cheque book recruited the best players. (most notably Cronk, Inglis and Hoffman who everyone wanted)
Manly have (or had, they have not bees so good in the last few years) a great network of recruitment spotters and have done very well in getting the right guys.

I like what we do with Keebra Park and our scholarship program for country kids seeing them end up a Gregs or Holy Cross RYde .
Greg Lenton has an amazing eye for talent and has a rare gift for seeing something others dont, the results a clear, a wonderful footy program, which we benefit from, it is our way of bringing them in, along with our 2 junior districts which are going great guns currently.