Is Tim Sheens good enough

[AmericanHistoryX]

to turn us into a team that is consistent - like bennett, hasler, bellamy. For me its i know how good the team will/can be (we have the roster - team of internationals right according to another thread) but how will the coach be. Sheens did it before with Canberra - correct me if i'm wrong - my question to the forum is - do you think tim sheens will transcend himself in 2012? Is he smart enough to take our team to the next level. Of course, disregard this post if you believe that sheens is in the same group as hasler, bellamy or bennett.

 

[innsaneink]

Hard to be consistent with the type of footy he has us playing, its all revolving around Benji.

He & Farah are senior players now, they should be at the forefront when cool heads are needed but at times they still go the long shot when its not needed

The question I ask is the flashy stuff is what eventually broke us…..but is it what makes us as well?

 

[Blackpearl]

hasler and bellamy in paricular have had a dream run with no injuries to key players and injuries in general a and in manlys case with non or ridiculously lenient suspensions to many of their players. perhaps this is one of the main reasons why the seascum are and rightly so, such a despised team.
if the seascum and stormcheats would have had the injury crisis that the tigers had imo neither would have made the playoffs. sheens did a remarkable job to get the tigers to where we finished at finals time. bellamy and hasler in particular are overated. if seascum cannot bash or intimidate the opposition there never is a plan B.
god i hope the warriors win the g/f. a seascum win would be a blight on rugby league and set the game back ten years on what it takes to win a premiership

 

[innsaneink]

hasler and bellamy in paricular have had a dream run with no injuries to key players and injuries in general a and in manlys case with non or ridiculously lenient suspensions to many of their players. perhaps this is one of the main reasons why the seascum are and rightly so, such a despised team.
if the seascum and stormcheats would have had the injury crisis that the tigers had imo neither would have made the playoffs. sheens did a remarkable job to get the tigers to where we finished at finals time. bellamy and hasler in particular are overated. if seascum cannot bash or intimidate the opposition there never is a plan B.
god i hope the warriors win the g/f. a seascum win would be a blight on rugby league and set the game back ten years on what it takes to win a premiership

I heard on radio the other day manly have used the least players in first grade for three years running….theyre doing something right, hardly a dream run

 

[AmericanHistoryX]

so are you say that a coach is only as good as his injuries - then explain bellamy. you dont make much sense to me. I think there is more to it than that. i like Inks thinking. maybe he's nailed it in his first post. His 2nd post is merely statistics. I just want to know if tim sheens is the right man to lead us to the next level - not statistics.

 

[Joel Helmes]

Why is all the onus on the coach?

 

[mmmmMatt]

Tim Sheens has been a great coach but i wouldnt have been against him leaving earlier in the year simply because a bit of change would have been good. But im not unhappy that he signed on for more years.

 

[king_sirro]

The coach is the boss, so IMO the onus is on Sheens to do something that makes us more consistant. We will never be as consistant as the likes of Melbourne due to the fact our two big guns are very flashy attack minded players, but i do believe there is a better balance for us that needs to be found. And its time Marshall and Farah did everything they could to help Sheens find this balance, they are mature enought now to do this.

 

[innsaneink]

Why is all the onus on the coach?

Its not…its also on the players.
And weve had plenty come & go in Sheens' term

 

[Joel Helmes]

Why is all the onus on the coach?

Its not…its also on the players.
And weve had plenty come & go in Sheens' term

Exactly, and now on paper there are no more excuses for some of these guys.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

IMO what Bellamy did this yr was one of the single, greatest coaching achievments in the modern game. He lost half his team last yr and got them within 1 game of the GF this yr, and also had them finish Minor Premiers. And he did it with half a team of nobodies. Take out Slater, Smith, Blair and Widdup and they look very average

So when people ask if Bellamy could have gotten the Storm to the finals with the Tigers injuries this yr, ask yourself if Sheens could have come back the next yr with a MP under his belt if he'd been through all that Bellamy had

 

[Goose]

IMO what Bellamy did this yr was one of the single, greatest coaching achievments in the modern game. He lost half his team last yr and got them within 1 game of the GF this yr, and also had them finish Minor Premiers. And he did it with half a team of nobodies. Take out Slater, Smith, Blair and Widdup and they look very average

So when people ask if Bellamy could have gotten the Storm to the finals with the Tigers injuries this yr, ask yourself if Sheens could have come back the next yr with a MP under his belt if he'd been through all that Bellamy had

I half agree, and half disagree, to turn them around was a big effort, and he got alot out of his second tier players, further more mentally it was a big achievement to get them off the canvas after last year.

on the other hand, he still had the best player in the world in each of the 3 most important positions(i guess cronk is arguable, but clsoe enough). And a great bunch of talented up and comers to compliment his journey men. He still has an amazing core of a team.

Clearly he is a good coach, but he has had some great cattle, and despite what people say about them being not stars when they got them, this is a myth, they paid massive overs for a pack of the best juniors for about 5 years, there was no secret about the ability of INglis, Cronk, Smith, Izzy, Hoffman, Blair, Proctor, every club wanted them, they just paid more for them.

Getting to Sheens, I dont think the player we have lends itself to huge consistency, but we have ran top 4 2 seasons in a row, and been knocked out by a field goal and a try in the 78th minute, that is a pretty good effort. I think he is pretty close to the other coaches.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

IMO what Bellamy did this yr was one of the single, greatest coaching achievments in the modern game. He lost half his team last yr and got them within 1 game of the GF this yr, and also had them finish Minor Premiers. And he did it with half a team of nobodies. Take out Slater, Smith, Blair and Widdup and they look very average

So when people ask if Bellamy could have gotten the Storm to the finals with the Tigers injuries this yr, ask yourself if Sheens could have come back the next yr with a MP under his belt if he'd been through all that Bellamy had

I half agree, and half disagree, to turn them around was a big effort, and he got alot out of his second tier players, further more mentally it was a big achievement to get them off the canvas after last year.

on the other hand, he still had the best player in the world in each of the 3 most important positions(i guess cronk is arguable, but clsoe enough). And a great bunch of talented up and comers to compliment his journey men. He still has an amazing core of a team.

Clearly he is a good coach, but he has had some great cattle, and despite what people say about them being not stars when they got them, this is a myth, they paid massive overs for a pack of the best juniors for about 5 years, there was no secret about the ability of INglis, Cronk, Smith, Izzy, Hoffman, Blair, Proctor, every club wanted them, they just paid more for them.

Getting to Sheens, I dont think the player we have lends itself to huge consistency, but we have ran top 4 2 seasons in a row, and been knocked out by a field goal and a try in the 78th minute, that is a pretty good effort. I think he is pretty close to the other coaches.

Can't believe i forgot to name Cronk :brick:

 

[happy_tiger]

I think this season will be the defining one for Sheens
He has all the cattle he wants as far as talent goes and if we have an fairly injury free run this season any thing less than Top 3 will be unacceptable
And if we make Top 3 anything less than a GF won't be good enough
Unless we have a massive signing planned for 2013 2012 will have to be the year
No Ellis No Tuqiri (you would think)

 

[GNR4LIFE]

I think this season will be the defining one for Sheens
He has all the cattle he wants as far as talent goes and if we have an fairly injury free run this season any thing less than Top 3 will be unacceptable
And if we make Top 3 anything less than a GF won't be good enough
Unless we have a massive signing planned for 2013 2012 will have to be the year
No Ellis No Tuqiri (you would think)

Ellis is contracted for 2013

 

[happy_tiger]

I think this season will be the defining one for Sheens
He has all the cattle he wants as far as talent goes and if we have an fairly injury free run this season any thing less than Top 3 will be unacceptable
And if we make Top 3 anything less than a GF won't be good enough
Unless we have a massive signing planned for 2013 2012 will have to be the year
No Ellis No Tuqiri (you would think)

Ellis is contracted for 2013

Yep Sorry your right GNR
I still think 2012 will have to be the year though

 

[westTAHger]

he is good enough, to get the team consistent and to win another premiership at wests-tigers 😛ray:
in saying this, I do believe that 2012 for Tim Sheens will be a very tough season.
he has alot of talented players, and there will be alot of expectation.

similar to Nathan Brown and 2005 dragons team.

we have no idea what is going to happen.
hopefully wests-tigers will be in grand final.

 

[innsaneink]

he is good enough, to get the team consistent and to win another premiership at wests-tigers 😛ray:
in saying this, I do believe that 2012 for Tim Sheens will be a very tough season.
he has alot of talented players, and there will be alot of expectation.

similar to Nathan Brown and 2005 dragons team.

we have no idea what is going to happen.
hopefully wests-tigers will be in grand final.

Youre right Tah
Pressure increased from '10 to '11….it will increase further from '11 to '12, and with us losing half our spine....I feel we may do it tough next year

 

[Snake]

Although not making it to the Final we have had 2 very good seasons,player movement for next year will be a positive IMO .Whom Sheens surrounds himself with will be the catalast for a defining season new blood & input with assistant coaches and trainers.But unfortunatly the demons of the past will appear again if Sheens can't demand and get certain players to become professional and team players.I don't think it's if Sheens is good enough I think can the players FINALLY mature into a professional outfit that has the killer instinct and the mindset to step up and become real contenders because it isn't there yet !

 

[Furious1]

The question I ask is the flashy stuff is what eventually broke us…..but is it what makes us as well?

Yes it is. We live by the sword and unfortunately die by it aswell. I always say, Benji may do some silly things that we all know are costly at certain times, but if there is one player who can also win it for you by doing the same silly things, it's Marshall.

On the pressure in 2012 front. Theres an easy fix to that….... if the players don't talk themselves up in the offseason about how good our group is and this is our window of opportunity etc i'm sure the pressure won't be so great. Come to think of it, i don't recall hearing Manly talking themselves up last offseason, they just get on with the business of winning. ( and having shots at Gallop)