Sironen & the Back Row

T

The_Tooth

New member
Just want to hear peoples opinion of Sirro and the back row as a whole.

I'm just not sure if I'm not noticing his workload in defence, but he seems to start games strong then wither out of the game.
**Is he getting burn out in defence?**
**How many minutes is he averaging?**
**Anyone got stats on average metres run and tackles made?**

Just about every game, he looks close to scoring in the first 10 minutes, then not much at all in attack. That said, in those first 10 mins the short ball from Brooks hasn't paid off once and is getting frustrating to watch. Brooks has thrown quite a few forward passes to Sirro, but Sirro also looks to be running a predictable line rather then coming outside in or using some footwork. He's just trying to ram through 2 or 3 defenders each time.
**Is this more Brooks fault or Sirros?**

In the early rounds I was excited about him making that left edge his own this year but he doesn't seem to be offering enough atm imo. I think his more accustomed instincts of a 5/8 tend to come out as he tires and he stands flat looking to pass rather then standing deep and running angles at full throttle.
**Could he be better utilised as a bench impact player and play less minutes?**

Then there's the back row as a whole. There doesn't look to be a trio that have cemented their spots as yet and on paper it always looks out of balance. We''ve used Sirro, Lovett, Tapau, Lovett, Santi, Liovave, Halatau and Lawrence. Tapau is probably the only one that has played consistently, but is this the time to have him at 13\. Just wondering what the best 3 are at this stage of the rebuilding phase. Think back to some of our better displays, Souths, Manly and the Dogs last year for example
**Who knows what trio we have had the best success with?**
Think back to some of our better displays, Souths, Manly and the Dogs last year for example.

One final question,
**Anyone been watching Funaki in NSW Cup?**
I love the lines he runs and the speed and impact they have, but i have only seen him a few times so I might be overating him. I did hear he got moved to front row at one point, i hope not.

Maybe all these questions could be answered with "Thats all because of JT's gameplans" which would be pretty close to the mark, but looking for a bit more insight from you diehard Tigers fans. Cheers
 
My simplified overview of Sironen is it seems he can't handle the minutes and stay effectively damaging at the same time
 
These are his stats The line breaks are just amazing

http://www.totalfootystats.com.au/nrl-player-stats/wests-tigers/curtis-sironen#.VWvLxL_z6M8
 
@happy tiger said:
These are his stats The line breaks are just amazing

http://www.totalfootystats.com.au/nrl-player-stats/wests-tigers/curtis-sironen#.VWvLxL_z6M8
Click to expand...

For line breaks is there a number before the 0? we are missing
 
@The Tooth said:
Just want to hear peoples opinion of Sirro and the back row as a whole.

I'm just not sure if I'm not noticing his workload in defence, but he seems to start games strong then wither out of the game.
**Is he getting burn out in defence?**
**How many minutes is he averaging?**
**Anyone got stats on average metres run and tackles made?**

Just about every game, he looks close to scoring in the first 10 minutes, then not much at all in attack. That said, in those first 10 mins the short ball from Brooks hasn't paid off once and is getting frustrating to watch. Brooks has thrown quite a few forward passes to Sirro, but Sirro also looks to be running a predictable line rather then coming outside in or using some footwork. He's just trying to ram through 2 or 3 defenders each time.
**Is this more Brooks fault or Sirros?**

In the early rounds I was excited about him making that left edge his own this year but he doesn't seem to be offering enough atm imo. I think his more accustomed instincts of a 5/8 tend to come out as he tires and he stands flat looking to pass rather then standing deep and running angles at full throttle.
**Could he be better utilised as a bench impact player and play less minutes?**

Then there's the back row as a whole. There doesn't look to be a trio that have cemented their spots as yet and on paper it always looks out of balance. We''ve used Sirro, Lovett, Tapau, Lovett, Santi, Liovave, Halatau and Lawrence. Tapau is probably the only one that has played consistently, but is this the time to have him at 13\. Just wondering what the best 3 are at this stage of the rebuilding phase. Think back to some of our better displays, Souths, Manly and the Dogs last year for example
**Who knows what trio we have had the best success with?**
Think back to some of our better displays, Souths, Manly and the Dogs last year for example.

One final question,
**Anyone been watching Funaki in NSW Cup?**
I love the lines he runs and the speed and impact they have, but i have only seen him a few times so I might be overating him. I did hear he got moved to front row at one point, i hope not.

Maybe all these questions could be answered with "Thats all because of JT's gameplans" which would be pretty close to the mark, but looking for a bit more insight from you diehard Tigers fans. Cheers
Click to expand...

Siro will kill them at Centre!
 
I think both Siro & Marty have been struggling lately with starting. I'd like to see them come off the bench for the next few weeks with a starting backrow of Sue, Lawrence & Santi/Halatau. That will at least give us a bit of impact & I really think Sue & Lawrence have done well when they started in the back row. This would provide a better balance for the team also.

No reason why these guys can't rotate (i.e. bench & starting) while they build up their stamina.
 
@alexaki said:
@happy tiger said:
These are his stats The line breaks are just amazing

http://www.totalfootystats.com.au/nrl-player-stats/wests-tigers/curtis-sironen#.VWvLxL_z6M8

For line breaks is there a number before the 0? we are missing
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Yes there is

Another 0 :wink:
 
Personally, he is not physically developed enough for his frame. He's a big kid. But for his size should be stronger and more damaging.

Playing 5/8 for years didn't need him to complete as much work as he needs to as an 80 min backrower.

It almost looks like he needs another off season. To physically toughen up and get a few more KMs in his legs. Atm when tired it looks like he will drift in and out of games.

_Posted using RoarFEED 4.2.0_
 
When you look at his stats his run metres are deceptive because a lot of his hit ups are when we are attacking the opposition line when he comes onto a flat pass from Brooks. He often gets stopped quickly as the opposition have been well schooled that this is coming.
I agree that he seems to be struggling playing 80 minutes, but if the interchange is reduced next year we will need him to play 80 minutes.
 
Sirro just doesn't run good lines. Whether it's his fault or coach instructions, he seems to just run straight at the opposite half, with no attempt to get on their outside shoulder or pick a gap. He doesn't have the gait or aggressiveness to cause too many issues doing just that. We've seen Halatau, a bloke half his size and width, score tries by hitting a hole at the right time.
Personally I'd prefer a back row of Sue, Lawrence and Taupau, with a bench of Ava, Lodge, Akauola and Halatau.

I'd also like to see Taylor use his bench with more of an emphasis on rotation than straight platoon swaps. I understand that it's difficult with limited interchange, but it seems like his only options are Woods-Keef-Marty or Ava-Lodge-Sue/Halatau. Mix it up a bit!

10' Keef off for Ava
30' Ava, Woods, Marty off; Keef, Lodge and Akauola on (Sue to prop)
35' Halatau for Lawrence, Lodge to prop, Halatau to lock.
55' Marty for Keef, Ava for Lodge, Lawrence for Sue.
60' Woods for Halatau, Taupau to lock
70' Lodge for Lawrence.

It's not perfect, but it's an example of mixing up the playing group while maintaining an offensive and defensive threat across the full 80.

Galloway only plays 35 minutes, but he's on through the middle when we traditionally struggle.
Marty plays 55, Woods plays 50, important minutes to start and finish.
Ava plays 45 and Lodge gets 35 (20 at prop).
Sue plays 55 straight, with 20 at prop.
Lawrence plays 50, Akauola 50 and Halatau 45.

No backrower plays more than 55 minutes, and we finish big with a pack of Woods, Ava, Akauola, Marty (on the edge) and Lodge.
It's definitely not JT ball, but I'd love to see it, and Halatau/Lawrence can be swapped for Sirro/Santi depending on injury, form or personal preference.

_Posted using RoarFEED 4.2.0_
 
@happy tiger said:
My simplified overview of Sironen is it seems he can't handle the minutes and stay effectively damaging at the same time
Click to expand...

Thats the way I see it to, Taylor needs a 80 minute forward, so he went with young Siro and at present he just has not got the engine, but to be fair I do not think we have a 80minute forward in the club at present so he is a work in progress. Maybe Santi would have been a better choice, but he is no certainty to get selected.

Anyway like the other kids I am willing to give him to this time next year before I start giving him a serve
 
I honestly think he is a fringe first grader. He will do until a proper back rower either puts his hand up in reserves or one comes on the market.
 
@The Tooth said:
Just want to hear peoples opinion of Sirro and the back row as a whole.
\
\
One final question,
**Anyone been watching Funaki in NSW Cup?**
I love the lines he runs and the speed and impact they have, but i have only seen him a few times so I might be overating him. I did hear he got moved to front row at one point, i hope not.

Maybe all these questions could be answered with "Thats all because of JT's gameplans" which would be pretty close to the mark, but looking for a bit more insight from you diehard Tigers fans. Cheers
Click to expand...

Im making a conscious effort not to judge any of these young players until the team sorts out its crap. We have been desperately out of form and out of sorts.

You hinted at it with the gameplan, my thinking is until this issue is resolved what exactly are we judging? Besides how closely they follow what we know of the game plan.

But with Funaki ive seen a bit of him at prop now and he looks the part. Im sure its his future and he can play that modern day big mobile prop role that other clubs have.
 
Still learning his trade IMO. I just don't think we use our backrowers effectively, not since we lost the likes of Dwyer and Ellis. Lui and Marshall were very effective at putting these blokes into space but Brooks and Moses play a different style and aren't getting the best our of them.
 
He has only played 24 games in the backrow in his life. It takes a while to develop in the backrow. He also is being used flat at the line a lot which to me isn't when he should be getting the ball
 
@willow said:
Still learning his trade IMO. I just don't think we use our backrowers effectively, not since we lost the likes of Dwyer and Ellis. Lui and Marshall were very effective at putting these blokes into space but Brooks and Moses play a different style and aren't getting the best our of them.
Click to expand...

So far this year Brooks has struggled to throw a decent attacking ball, half of them have gone forward and the other half have been hospital passes. In saying that I am sure this is more to do with the so called new structure than Brooks
 
@Boonboon2 said:
He has only played 24 games in the backrow in his life. It takes a while to develop in the backrow. He also is being used flat at the line a lot which to me isn't when he should be getting the ball
Click to expand...

I think it is ridiculous the way he is being used…like a battering ram with flat passes and the defense in his face.

The kid has skills so lets use them.....he should be getting the ball early with Teddy floating off him!!
 
@simonthetiger said:
@Boonboon2 said:
He has only played 24 games in the backrow in his life. It takes a while to develop in the backrow. He also is being used flat at the line a lot which to me isn't when he should be getting the ball

I think it is ridiculous the way he is being used…like a battering ram with flat passes and the defense in his face.

The kid has skills so lets use them.....he should be getting the ball early with Teddy floating off him!!
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

That's the problem Simon , when we run a play when Sironen gets the ball when he isn't flat Teddy is the decoy for the 2nd man 2nd man play
 
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