The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk



  • Would he have thrived in or lifted up a struggling side? It’s nothing but a thought experiment as we can only judge on what has eventuated throughout his career. Can sit here and argue all day whether he would or wouldn’t have.

    He is a fantastic half and despite only ever playing for sides with other star players in it (which tends to happen as quality players generally want to play with other quality players as it delivers the best chance of success,) he is an extremely consistent footy player who has always delivered at every level for whichever team he has played for club, state & country.)

    Simply put, if we had a chance to snag Cronk for those two years at the expense of losing Brooks, I’d have done it in a heartbeat, and I am certainly not one who has it in for Brooks.



  • He’s a smart footballer, in this game smarts can outweigh ability.
    Our team has the ability to be really dumb.



  • @Cultured_Bogan said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    Simply put, if we had a chance to snag Cronk for those two years at the expense of losing Brooks, I’d have done it in a heartbeat, and I am certainly not one who has it in for Brooks.

    Was a no-brainer. I said at the time to write an open cheque for the bloke.
    His work ethic and winning mentality alone would have created a better culture here - and that’s not even considering his exceptional game management and halfback play.



  • @bigsiro said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    @Cultured_Bogan said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    Simply put, if we had a chance to snag Cronk for those two years at the expense of losing Brooks, I’d have done it in a heartbeat, and I am certainly not one who has it in for Brooks.

    Was a no-brainer. I said at the time to write an open cheque for the bloke.
    His work ethic and winning mentality alone would have created a better culture here - and that’s not even considering his exceptional game management and halfback play.

    Except he wouldn’t have ever come here to play under JT and our merry band of under achievers. There’s a reason why he went to Easts.



  • @Cultured_Bogan said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    @bigsiro said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    @Cultured_Bogan said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    Simply put, if we had a chance to snag Cronk for those two years at the expense of losing Brooks, I’d have done it in a heartbeat, and I am certainly not one who has it in for Brooks.

    Was a no-brainer. I said at the time to write an open cheque for the bloke.
    His work ethic and winning mentality alone would have created a better culture here - and that’s not even considering his exceptional game management and halfback play.

    Except he wouldn’t have ever come here to play under JT and our merry band of under achievers. There’s a reason why he went to Easts.

    Yeah I reckon he is under the thumb as well …Tara would rule the house with an iron fist



  • @fair-dinkum said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    @The_Patriot said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    Really is quite pathetic that after the game in which we needed him the most. The game where the guy went to water all his supporters sticking up for him.

    Enough is enough with Luke Brooks, he will never ever be our number 1 play maker.

    Its the way its been for years, fans accepting mediocrity. Its like a religion to them. Theyve been brainwashed into thinking something exists when there is zero evidence for it. Brooks has never produced a season to ever be called a decent, let alone a first grade half, yet here we are with the mediocrity zealots preaching he is the messiah.

    How are the zealots who accept mediocrity any different to you? What separates you from them? Because you stamp your feet and say you don’t? Because that doesn’t separate you at all. You clearly still watch games, post on the forum, and have an emotional attachment. Someone who truly doesn’t accept mediocrity walks away altogether. You haven’t, because you accept it, just like the rest of us.



  • @Cultured_Bogan said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    @bigsiro said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    @Cultured_Bogan said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    Simply put, if we had a chance to snag Cronk for those two years at the expense of losing Brooks, I’d have done it in a heartbeat, and I am certainly not one who has it in for Brooks.

    Was a no-brainer. I said at the time to write an open cheque for the bloke.
    His work ethic and winning mentality alone would have created a better culture here - and that’s not even considering his exceptional game management and halfback play.

    Except he wouldn’t have ever come here to play under JT and our merry band of under achievers. There’s a reason why he went to Easts.

    And that’s part of the thought experiment.

    At least with someone like Wayne Bennett, nobody ever thought he’d leave Broncos and now he’s done it twice, and he didn’t just waltz into long-term smart operations at a new club. At Dragons and Newcastle, at the least, he took on a lot of club baggage - and his reputation has fluctuated accordingly, because he got the result at Dragons, but then failed at Newcastle.

    What if Cronk had left Storm and gone to Tigers or Dragons? At the time I was wishing so intently that he would, that he’d test out his ability, his potential greatness, at a team that absolutely needed a halfback like him. It didn’t even need to be Tigers. Good halfbacks are scarce enough, but calm, methodical and intelligent halfbacks, who have both a natural feel for the game plus the smarts to develop strategies off-field, are rare as hens teeth.

    And how disappointing, he joins the Roosters. I was so hoping Cronk would use his reputation and ability to help get a battler club off the deck, but instead he went straight to cash and glamour, with another stacked roster for him to orchestrate. So disappointing.

    And hence my original question, because Cronk could have gone wherever he pleased, but he chose the safe option. At the very least, what I’ll say for Tedesco is that he never had sustained success and never played finals footy, so I can at least understand the desire to join a top-tier club. But Cronk had been there, done that. Hasn’t really challenged himself in the slightest, taking $1M to play with the game’s best players.

    Imagine leaving Slater and Smith and Munster behind, walking into Tedesco, Keary and Latrell… it’s like swapping white diamonds for pink diamonds, when everyone was hoping you’d do something with the quartz of the code.



  • @jirskyr said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    @Cultured_Bogan said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    @bigsiro said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    @Cultured_Bogan said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    Simply put, if we had a chance to snag Cronk for those two years at the expense of losing Brooks, I’d have done it in a heartbeat, and I am certainly not one who has it in for Brooks.

    Was a no-brainer. I said at the time to write an open cheque for the bloke.
    His work ethic and winning mentality alone would have created a better culture here - and that’s not even considering his exceptional game management and halfback play.

    Except he wouldn’t have ever come here to play under JT and our merry band of under achievers. There’s a reason why he went to Easts.

    And that’s part of the thought experiment.

    At least with someone like Wayne Bennett, nobody ever thought he’d leave Broncos and now he’s done it twice, and he didn’t just waltz into long-term smart operations at a new club. At Dragons and Newcastle, at the least, he took on a lot of club baggage - and his reputation has fluctuated accordingly, because he got the result at Dragons, but then failed at Newcastle.

    What if Cronk had left Storm and gone to Tigers or Dragons? At the time I was wishing so intently that he would, that he’d test out his ability, his potential greatness, at a team that absolutely needed a halfback like him. It didn’t even need to be Tigers. Good halfbacks are scarce enough, but calm, methodical and intelligent halfbacks, who have both a natural feel for the game plus the smarts to develop strategies off-field, are rare as hens teeth.

    And how disappointing, he joins the Roosters. I was so hoping Cronk would use his reputation and ability to help get a battler club off the deck, but instead he went straight to cash and glamour, with another stacked roster for him to orchestrate. So disappointing.

    And hence my original question, because Cronk could have gone wherever he pleased, but he chose the safe option. At the very least, what I’ll say for Tedesco is that he never had sustained success and never played finals footy, so I can at least understand the desire to join a top-tier club. But Cronk had been there, done that. Hasn’t really challenged himself in the slightest, taking $1M to play with the game’s best players.

    Imagine leaving Slater and Smith and Munster behind, walking into Tedesco, Keary and Latrell… it’s like swapping white diamonds for pink diamonds, when everyone was hoping you’d do something with the quartz of the code.

    He’s performed at every level of the game. He could have been a star at Wests, Newcastle or Gold Coast. He could have carried us to the finals, he could have attracted other stars to whichever battler club he signed with.

    And in response to your comment about Tedesco, I’d challenge that with Cronk had been a key component in building a dynasty at another club and earned the right to finish his career the way he wants, Tedesco had a club who stuck by him and was willing to do anything to keep him, he’d achieved nothing at Wests and he parachuted into a club surrounded by stars to guarantee him that success instead of working for it.

    It’s a moot point, we’ll never know, except that he has an amazing club and representative career which speaks for itself. It would suggest to me that he would have lifted any club he went to. I mean after all, Roosters had a star studded roster for years prior to Cronk arriving, and they bag a premiership soon as he lobs up.



  • @innsaneink said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    There are some here with little idea lumping the TEAMS finishing positions previously and this year on ONE Player.

    Agenda = anyone agreeing with this garbage :- " Brooks has never produced a season to ever be called a decent, let alone a first grade half".

    Agenda = anyone not agreeing with this correct statement " Brooks has never produced a season to ever be called a decent, let alone a first grade half".

    The continual acceptance of rubbish, only at the Tigers.



  • @GNR4LIFE said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    @fair-dinkum said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    @The_Patriot said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    Really is quite pathetic that after the game in which we needed him the most. The game where the guy went to water all his supporters sticking up for him.

    Enough is enough with Luke Brooks, he will never ever be our number 1 play maker.

    Its the way its been for years, fans accepting mediocrity. Its like a religion to them. Theyve been brainwashed into thinking something exists when there is zero evidence for it. Brooks has never produced a season to ever be called a decent, let alone a first grade half, yet here we are with the mediocrity zealots preaching he is the messiah.

    How are the zealots who accept mediocrity any different to you? What separates you from them? Because you stamp your feet and say you don’t? Because that doesn’t separate you at all. You clearly still watch games, post on the forum, and have an emotional attachment. Someone who truly doesn’t accept mediocrity walks away altogether. You haven’t, because you accept it, just like the rest of us.

    “How are the zealots who accept mediocrity any different to you?”
    “What separates you from them?”

    I can differentiate between fact and fiction. Should give it a try sometime.



  • @fair-dinkum said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    @GNR4LIFE said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    @fair-dinkum said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    @The_Patriot said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    Really is quite pathetic that after the game in which we needed him the most. The game where the guy went to water all his supporters sticking up for him.

    Enough is enough with Luke Brooks, he will never ever be our number 1 play maker.

    Its the way its been for years, fans accepting mediocrity. Its like a religion to them. Theyve been brainwashed into thinking something exists when there is zero evidence for it. Brooks has never produced a season to ever be called a decent, let alone a first grade half, yet here we are with the mediocrity zealots preaching he is the messiah.

    How are the zealots who accept mediocrity any different to you? What separates you from them? Because you stamp your feet and say you don’t? Because that doesn’t separate you at all. You clearly still watch games, post on the forum, and have an emotional attachment. Someone who truly doesn’t accept mediocrity walks away altogether. You haven’t, because you accept it, just like the rest of us.

    “How are the zealots who accept mediocrity any different to you?”
    “What separates you from them?”

    I can differentiate between fact and fiction. Should give it a try sometime.

    That still doesn’t free you of not accepting mediocrity cos like I said you are still here…



  • @Cultured_Bogan said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    It’s a moot point, we’ll never know, except that he has an amazing club and representative career which speaks for itself. It would suggest to me that he would have lifted any club he went to. I mean after all, Roosters had a star studded roster for years prior to Cronk arriving, and they bag a premiership soon as he lobs up.

    See, I can’t see sustained success at Storm and then Roosters as evidence that he would have lifted ANY club. He didn’t establish at Melbourne until 2006 - he started only 1 match in 2004 and 9 matches in 2005; there were 23 appearances off the bench. Storm made the finals 4/6 years before he debuted and won a premiership; they were already successful before he started.

    And long bow that he joined Roosters and they won a premiership “as soon as he lobs up”. They also won it as soon as Tedesco lobbed up. In fact they won it the first year Momirovski lobbed. And prior to him arriving, they won the premiership 5 years prior, finished MP 3 of the 5 years, finished 2nd another season.

    I’m not specifically criticising the bloke, I am just trying to consider his career in the context of the great sides he played in. There are some tremendous players that didn’t have anything like the success of Cronk simply because they played in average sides. Ken Irvine comes to mind, being considered one of the all-time best wingers but not enjoying a premiership in 13 seasons at the Bears, but he joins a star-studded Manly team in 1971 and wins 2 premierships the following 2 years.



  • @GNR4LIFE said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    @fair-dinkum said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    @GNR4LIFE said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    @fair-dinkum said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    @The_Patriot said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    Really is quite pathetic that after the game in which we needed him the most. The game where the guy went to water all his supporters sticking up for him.

    Enough is enough with Luke Brooks, he will never ever be our number 1 play maker.

    Its the way its been for years, fans accepting mediocrity. Its like a religion to them. Theyve been brainwashed into thinking something exists when there is zero evidence for it. Brooks has never produced a season to ever be called a decent, let alone a first grade half, yet here we are with the mediocrity zealots preaching he is the messiah.

    How are the zealots who accept mediocrity any different to you? What separates you from them? Because you stamp your feet and say you don’t? Because that doesn’t separate you at all. You clearly still watch games, post on the forum, and have an emotional attachment. Someone who truly doesn’t accept mediocrity walks away altogether. You haven’t, because you accept it, just like the rest of us.

    “How are the zealots who accept mediocrity any different to you?”
    “What separates you from them?”

    I can differentiate between fact and fiction. Should give it a try sometime.

    That still doesn’t free you of not accepting mediocrity cos like I said you are still here…

    Im not part of the Brooks defensive fan club and I am calling for him to play a first grade quality game once and a while or go play 2nd string half back for Camden in Group 6. ill be sure to take note of every time you defend the bloke for not being mediocre and call you out on it. Thats how i dont accept mediocrity, how about you?



  • @fair-dinkum said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    @GNR4LIFE said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    @fair-dinkum said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    @GNR4LIFE said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    @fair-dinkum said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    @The_Patriot said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    Really is quite pathetic that after the game in which we needed him the most. The game where the guy went to water all his supporters sticking up for him.

    Enough is enough with Luke Brooks, he will never ever be our number 1 play maker.

    Its the way its been for years, fans accepting mediocrity. Its like a religion to them. Theyve been brainwashed into thinking something exists when there is zero evidence for it. Brooks has never produced a season to ever be called a decent, let alone a first grade half, yet here we are with the mediocrity zealots preaching he is the messiah.

    How are the zealots who accept mediocrity any different to you? What separates you from them? Because you stamp your feet and say you don’t? Because that doesn’t separate you at all. You clearly still watch games, post on the forum, and have an emotional attachment. Someone who truly doesn’t accept mediocrity walks away altogether. You haven’t, because you accept it, just like the rest of us.

    “How are the zealots who accept mediocrity any different to you?”
    “What separates you from them?”

    I can differentiate between fact and fiction. Should give it a try sometime.

    That still doesn’t free you of not accepting mediocrity cos like I said you are still here…

    Im not part of the Brooks defensive fan club and I am calling for him to play a first grade quality game once and a while or go play 2nd string half back for Camden in Group 6. ill be sure to take note of every time you defend the bloke for not being mediocre and call you out on it. Thats how i dont accept mediocrity, how about you?

    I walk away and find something else to do, instead of putting myself through misery. As do most people. That’s what not accepting it is.



  • @jirskyr said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    @Cultured_Bogan said in The possible non-greatness of Cooper Cronk:

    It’s a moot point, we’ll never know, except that he has an amazing club and representative career which speaks for itself. It would suggest to me that he would have lifted any club he went to. I mean after all, Roosters had a star studded roster for years prior to Cronk arriving, and they bag a premiership soon as he lobs up.

    See, I can’t see sustained success at Storm and then Roosters as evidence that he would have lifted ANY club. He didn’t establish at Melbourne until 2006 - he started only 1 match in 2004 and 9 matches in 2005; there were 23 appearances off the bench. Storm made the finals 4/6 years before he debuted and won a premiership; they were already successful before he started.

    And long bow that he joined Roosters and they won a premiership “as soon as he lobs up”. They also won it as soon as Tedesco lobbed up. In fact they won it the first year Momirovski lobbed. And prior to him arriving, they won the premiership 5 years prior, finished MP 3 of the 5 years, finished 2nd another season.

    I’m not specifically criticising the bloke, I am just trying to consider his career in the context of the great sides he played in. There are some tremendous players that didn’t have anything like the success of Cronk simply because they played in average sides. Ken Irvine comes to mind, being considered one of the all-time best wingers but not enjoying a premiership in 13 seasons at the Bears, but he joins a star-studded Manly team in 1971 and wins 2 premierships the following 2 years.

    He was already established when they went on to dominate during the cap breach years.

    Fair point on Tedesco etc. My point is that Easts have never been short of star players and they lacked the final touch to be able to clinch the silverware. Having a QLD and Australian representative halfback certainly helped the cause.

    If we start looking at his career in the context that he was only as good as the players around him, then we may as well abolish the immortals concept as they were only ever as good as the team around them. Joey wasn’t short of decent players around him at Newcastle in '97 and '01 (taking into account the split comp also in '97 where much of the talent was in the SuperLeague,) and many regard him as one of, if not the, greatest half to play the game. So do we look at his career in the same context? Was he only good because he had Tahu, BK, Mad Dog, Peden, Chief, Boozy, Buderus, Albert, Gidley, Matt Johns, Butts, O’Davis & Craigie around him?

    In those terms, you can make that argument for any player.


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