Becoming a development club

Gus Gould always says that the best clubs at the top of the ladder develop their own talent. And says the clubs at the bottom who try to buy their way up the ladder will never succeed.

Its fair to say that Wests Tigers have tried to buy their way out for a while without success. But it sounds like Madge is looking at developing better pathways for local players to WT.

I had a look at the 2021 squad so far to see how many players we have developed. While we have a lot of going players we are developing, only Brooks and Nofa have come locally through our systems. On the plus side the number of journeyman or ring ins are probably less than years gone by.

Local WT product:
Luke Brooks
David Nofoaluma

Debut with WT:
Jacob Liddle
Thomas Mikaele
Sam McIntyre (assumed resigned)
Tommy Talau
Reece Hoffman
Kane Bradley (yet to debut)
Zac Cini (yet to debut)
Jock Madden (yet to debut)
Jake Simpkin (yet to debut)

Debut with WT but came from another club:
Josh Aloiai (parra)
Shawn Blore (Penrith)
Luke Garner (manly)
Asu Kepaoa (easts)
Alex Twal (parra)

Came to WT with less than 50 games:
Michael chee kam (5 games at Manly)
Adam Doueihi (30 games at Souths)
Luciano Leilua (43 games at Dragons)
Zane Musgrove (27 games at souths)
Stefano Utoikamanu (3 games at parra)
Billy Walters (2 games at storm)

Non-WT developed player:
Joseph Leilua
Moses Mbye
Russell Packer
Josh Reynolds

@frullens said in Becoming a development club:

Gus Gould always says that the best clubs at the top of the ladder develop their own talent. And says the clubs at the bottom who try to buy their way up the ladder will never succeed.

Its fair to say that Wests Tigers have tried to buy their way out for a while without success. But it sounds like Madge is looking at developing better pathways for local players to WT.

I had a look at the 2021 squad so far to see how many players we have developed. While we have a lot of going players we are developing, only Brooks and Nofa have come locally through our systems. On the plus side the number of journeyman or ring ins are probably less than years gone by.

Local WT product:
Luke Brooks
David Nofoaluma

Debut with WT:
Jacob Liddle
Thomas Mikaele
Sam McIntyre (assumed resigned)
Tommy Talau
Reece Hoffman
Kane Bradley (yet to debut)
Zac Cini (yet to debut)
Jock Madden (yet to debut)
Jake Simpkin (yet to debut)

Debut with WT but came from another club:
Josh Aloiai (parra)
Shawn Blore (Penrith)
Luke Garner (manly)
Asu Kepaoa (easts)
Alex Twal (parra)

Came to WT with less than 50 games:
Michael chee kam (5 games at Manly)
Adam Doueihi (30 games at Souths)
Luciano Leilua (43 games at Dragons)
Zane Musgrove (27 games at souths)
Stefano Utoikamanu (3 games at parra)
Billy Walters (2 games at storm)

Non-WT developed player:
Joseph Leilua
Moses Mbye
Russell Packer
Josh Reynolds

Might be beneficial to have a look at Wests Tigers juniors that are playing at other clubs.

We snagged some from under the Eels noses, Stefano, William Kei and Tyler Field were all rated highly.

Being a development club only works if you manage to hold onto the right ones and recently we have not been able to do that.

@cochise said in Becoming a development club:

Being a development club only works if you manage to hold onto the right ones and recently we have not been able to do that.

Still doesn’t mean that we aren’t a development club. Just means we need a fair bit of improvement in retention.

This is a good one for stats men.
What are the ratios of clubs keeping local talent and releasing local talent and which clubs have the highest current junior talent playing in the nrl in total.

Criteria has to be they were at least brought into the club as SGball recruits.

Currently in the NRL are the following local juniors, (been with the club since SGball and no longer playing for the Tigers.

Andrew Fifita
James Tedesco
Aaron Woods
Mitchell Moses
Junior Tatola
Tanela Paseka
Nathan Brown
Ryan Papenhuyzen
Bailey Sironen
Jeremy Marshall King
Moses Suli
Ray Stone

@Needaname said in Becoming a development club:

@cochise said in Becoming a development club:

Being a development club only works if you manage to hold onto the right ones and recently we have not been able to do that.

Still doesn’t mean that we aren’t a development club. Just means we need a fair bit of improvement in retention.

This is a good one for stats men.
What are the ratios of clubs keeping local talent and releasing local talent and which clubs have the highest current junior talent playing in the nrl in total.

Criteria has to be they were at least brought into the club as SGball recruits.

Currently in the NRL are the following local juniors, (been with the club since SGball and no longer playing for the Tigers.

Andrew Fifita
James Tedesco
Aaron Woods
Mitchell Moses
Junior Tatola
Tanela Paseka
Nathan Brown
Ryan Papenhuyzen
Bailey Sironen
Jeremy Marshall King
Moses Suli
Ray Stone

I’m not saying we aren’t a development club, I’m saying it hasn’t worked for us.

The talent of our juniors we have lost would be a dominant force indeed.

@cochise said in Becoming a development club:

@Needaname said in Becoming a development club:

@cochise said in Becoming a development club:

Being a development club only works if you manage to hold onto the right ones and recently we have not been able to do that.

Still doesn’t mean that we aren’t a development club. Just means we need a fair bit of improvement in retention.

This is a good one for stats men.
What are the ratios of clubs keeping local talent and releasing local talent and which clubs have the highest current junior talent playing in the nrl in total.

Criteria has to be they were at least brought into the club as SGball recruits.

Currently in the NRL are the following local juniors, (been with the club since SGball and no longer playing for the Tigers.

Andrew Fifita
James Tedesco
Aaron Woods
Mitchell Moses
Junior Tatola
Tanela Paseka
Nathan Brown
Ryan Papenhuyzen
Bailey Sironen
Jeremy Marshall King
Moses Suli
Ray Stone

I’m not saying we aren’t a development club, I’m saying it hasn’t worked for us.

It looks like WT focus should be on its recruitment/retention staff.

If we don’t win games then they aren’t going to stay…

The phrase I hate the most is “I’m playing at x, y, z to win a grand final”…

Now is that down to players blaming others for their own failings? Or is it a broader failing of the club??

We win, our players stay.

@frullens said in Becoming a development club:

Gus Gould always says that the best clubs at the top of the ladder develop their own talent. And says the clubs at the bottom who try to buy their way up the ladder will never succeed.

Tim Sheens always said that too. It must be common knowledge in all clubs.
It’s also a part of the Australian culture to be impatient for success. A coach doesn’t have much time to prove himself, and a player needs to go places very quickly. But the club has no such constraints and therefore should not allow this urgency to create panic. The club appears to lack the high level of continuity in management systems and goals which lead to success. The club may even lack the ability to identify its own shortcomings?
Difficult to say without a detailed review of systems and procedures, but you could be forgiven for thinking that we can’t retain our developing players and we can’t recruit recruit experienced with an acceptable level of success.

Tim Sheens always said that too. It must be common knowledge in all clubs.
It’s also a part of the Australian culture to be impatient for success. A coach doesn’t have much time to prove himself, and a player needs to go places very quickly.

Stability with coach or football director is really important in keeping the beat upcoming talent.

Storm - Bellamy/Frank
Roosters - Robinson
Parra - Arthur
Raiders - Sticky/Furner
Panthers - Gould

I no if your underperforming it’s harder to stick with the coach and if your are performing it’s easier to stick with the coach.

But raiders, parra and even Roosters have seen the bottom of the table during their reins.

We really need to lock in Madge and Hartigan for the longterm

Didn’t know Ray Stone was our junior. Rate him as a player. What is the hype with William Kei seems to be talked about by Forum Members. Please enlightened me

@OzLuke said in Becoming a development club:

If we don’t win games then they aren’t going to stay…

The phrase I hate the most is “I’m playing at x, y, z to win a grand final”…

Now is that down to players blaming others for their own failings? Or is it a broader failing of the club??

We win, our players stay.

Me too. At the end of the day the onus is on your top players to win you the games. You can’t take all the coin like Teddy, Moses, Woods and Brooks and then blame everyone else for not winning. It’s why we have a problem now with our top earners Reynolds,Packer and Mbye not being the type of players to win you games but taking up a significant part of the cap.

@frullens said in Becoming a development club:

Tim Sheens always said that too. It must be common knowledge in all clubs.
It’s also a part of the Australian culture to be impatient for success. A coach doesn’t have much time to prove himself, and a player needs to go places very quickly.

Stability with coach or football director is really important in keeping the beat upcoming talent.

Storm - Bellamy/Frank
Roosters - Robinson
Parra - Arthur
Raiders - Sticky/Furner
Panthers - Gould

I no if your underperforming it’s harder to stick with the coach and if your are performing it’s easier to stick with the coach.

But raiders, parra and even Roosters have seen the bottom of the table during their reins.

We really need to lock in Madge and Hartigan for the longterm

I agree it’s easy to have continuity when you have long serving employees, coaches, admin etc. how often have we heard a ceo say words like “the club has decided to go in a different direction”? Of course we know that’s code for we’re getting a new coach and he is bringing in a new team and they’re going to rewrite the procedures manual. We’re throwing the baby out with the bath water…Why??? Imo this is what kills continuity and ultimately success.

Robinson was recently asked…”why are the chooks so successful?” “ Do you have any coaching tips you could pass onto struggling clubs?”
His reply was no great surprise but the way he delivered it was…as if he was being asked for the next letter in the alphabet after c. He eluded to getting administrative functions spot on, then success flows from that.

I have great admiration for the traditional continuity of something like Noah’s 10 commandments for example.
What if your club wrote something similar? A mission statement? Or whatever? Then never threw it out?

last edited by twentyforty

@twentyforty said in Becoming a development club:

@frullens said in Becoming a development club:

Gus Gould always says that the best clubs at the top of the ladder develop their own talent. And says the clubs at the bottom who try to buy their way up the ladder will never succeed.

Tim Sheens always said that too. It must be common knowledge in all clubs.
It’s also a part of the Australian culture to be impatient for success. A coach doesn’t have much time to prove himself, and a player needs to go places very quickly. But the club has no such constraints and therefore should not allow this urgency to create panic. The club appears to lack the high level of continuity in management systems and goals which lead to success. The club may even lack the ability to identify its own shortcomings?
Difficult to say without a detailed review of systems and procedures, but you could be forgiven for thinking that we can’t retain our developing players and we can’t recruit recruit experienced with an acceptable level of success.

It’s no accident that we had a plethora of junior talent coming through during and after Sheens.

Recent Topics

Support our community by clicking here and joining our Forum Support Scheme