Is it time for a rethink?

Looking back at 2005 (sigh!) the team played a brand of football that made best use of the talent we had - which let’s face it, with a few exceptions, wasn’t the strongest roster we’ve ever had. But whatever Sheens did with them, it got us to win a premiership. We won’t have the forwards or the backs to be top 4 material UNLESS we work on the off season on building something that is uniquely ours, that is we start to play to whatever our strengths are - if speed, then let’ use it; of defense, then let’s concentrate on that, but do it in a way that doesn’t follow in the traditional format of the game, which, albeit is simple, but has to be underpinned by strengths we simply don’t have at present.
All I am saying is that unless we do something that is different, we are bound to repeat what we’ve done in the last 10 years or more.

No easy answer, I’ll grant you that.

I theory, I agree. In practice, I don’t think we have anything that stands out.

I think the worse thing about that time was, we didn’t seem to have a plan to stay up as one of the strong go to clubs.
Lament, lament.

@TigerWest said in Is it time for a rethink?:

I think the worse thing about that time was, we didn’t seem to have a plan to stay up as one of the strong go to clubs.
Lament, lament.
Yeah the game changed in 06. Fast play the balls out and the wrestle started to appear. Unfortunately we still tried up tempo and small forwards for years to come after that.

@Tiger_heart said in Is it time for a rethink?:

Looking back at 2005 (sigh!) the team played a brand of football that made best use of the talent we had - which let’s face it, with a few exceptions, wasn’t the strongest roster we’ve ever had. But whatever Sheens did with them, it got us to win a premiership. We won’t have the forwards or the backs to be top 4 material UNLESS we work on the off season on building something that is uniquely ours, that is we start to play to whatever our strengths are - if speed, then let’ use it; of defense, then let’s concentrate on that, but do it in a way that doesn’t follow in the traditional format of the game, which, albeit is simple, but has to be underpinned by strengths we simply don’t have at present.
All I am saying is that unless we do something that is different, we are bound to repeat what we’ve done in the last 10 years or more.

No easy answer, I’ll grant you that.

Terrific points you make. And, what you’re referring to is an essential part of that mysterious thing called club “culture”. Most people would simplify it to try your guts out every week and win more than you lose.

But there’s a whole lot of values and personnel-management that underpins a culture, and it must include all stakeholders “knowing” (as opposed to thinking) what we’re good at and what we stand for and accept in demonstrating and exploiting our unique strengths.

Almost all clubs are strving to be successful by following the same paths as the others, even though they have different talents, strengths, leaders, systems, players.

Maybe the best example of a “rethink” in coaching rugby league would be the Walker brothers approach in QRL? And, I’m not clever enough to know if they have been a success or not.

I can’t think of any others, apart from those inflicted upon clubs by Vlandy’s bastardisation of the rules of rugby league for a better TV product.

The problem is i don’t see Maguire as an innovative coach. He has always liked big mobile forwards and the backs feeding off their go forward. Nothing flashy and unfortunately what the majority of clubs are doing. We need to take a leaf out of Penriths approach - take a gamble on a lot of the young guys we have coming through and add a couple of hard nosed experienced campaigners. That approach probably won’t get us in the 8 next year but come 2022 the young guys will have played 20 odd games and add to that the possibilty of signing a couple of high profile players and i think we will see a marked improvement. I just don’t see the point in continuing on the path we have for the last 10 years.

I just don’t think we can continue to be a development club, we need to buy a decent roster and get into the finals first
Then we can plan to be a dynasty

Sheens “ah huh moment” came when he realised that people will achieve their own goals more vigorously and with greater determination. Rugby league is a team sport, Tigers need to facilitate progress toward the creation of a team. Get rid of those players who refuse to be part of a team and foster the enormous potential in those who do. That would be a starting point in the process which appears to be what Madge is doing.

@Tiger_heart said in Is it time for a rethink?:

Looking back at 2005 (sigh!) the team played a brand of football that made best use of the talent we had - which let’s face it, with a few exceptions, wasn’t the strongest roster we’ve ever had. But whatever Sheens did with them, it got us to win a premiership. We won’t have the forwards or the backs to be top 4 material UNLESS we work on the off season on building something that is uniquely ours, that is we start to play to whatever our strengths are - if speed, then let’ use it; of defense, then let’s concentrate on that, but do it in a way that doesn’t follow in the traditional format of the game, which, albeit is simple, but has to be underpinned by strengths we simply don’t have at present.
All I am saying is that unless we do something that is different, we are bound to repeat what we’ve done in the last 10 years or more.

No easy answer, I’ll grant you that.

Not a bad thought in theory, but in reality, we have no speed and we have poor defence and nothing else noteworthy.

I also think we may be overthinking what happened in 2005. IMO a large part of 2005 is that all the footy gods aligned for us. You know how every year we look at a team that gets a “rails run” whether it is rule changes, soft draws etc, that was us in 2005, Im not saying that the NRL helped us intentionally but at that moment they implemented rule interpretations designed to “speed up” the game and that happened to fall in our lap. Oh and Benji.

No. We need a sustainable play style. To become a strong club you need an effective game plan like the Melbournes and the Roosters.

@diedpretty said in Is it time for a rethink?:

The problem is i don’t see Maguire as an innovative coach. He has always liked big mobile forwards and the backs feeding off their go forward. Nothing flashy and unfortunately what the majority of clubs are doing. We need to take a leaf out of Penriths approach - take a gamble on a lot of the young guys we have coming through and add a couple of hard nosed experienced campaigners. That approach probably won’t get us in the 8 next year but come 2022 the young guys will have played 20 odd games and add to that the possibilty of signing a couple of high profile players and i think we will see a marked improvement. I just don’t see the point in continuing on the path we have for the last 10 years.

G’day @diedpretty : Re your “I don’t see Maguire as an innovative coach” Your 100% correct…he aint.
Re your “I just don’t see the point in continuing on the same path we have for the last ten years”…100% correct again.
Four score and seven years ago…oops…sorry…4 plus 1 years ago, a new mob took over the running of an AFL club that was at that time apparently considered by many to be a bit of a joke.
The manager forecast that within 5 years they would win the flag 3 times.
They are in the Grand Final this year for the 3rd year running after winning the previous 2 flags and are favoured to win again tomorrow.
The team…Richmond TIGERS!!!
I would suggest Wests TIGERS send a delegation down there… to find out how they achieved such an amazing turn-around.

While I hate hearing how we need to replicate 2005, tbh it wouldn’t hurt. We do need to coach to our strengths. Canberra don’t even have a controlling half, and they’re doing alright. Ricky Stuart coaches the team based on the players, not on an arbitrary, pre-conceived plan.

The keys, in my opinion, are the set moves we execute and where we do them. This season, I noticed that we were excellent when inside the opposition’s 30m. People were running the right lines and we were stringing passes together. When inside our own half, everything was one-out. No one running support lines, no set pieces, just relying on the outside backs to get us forward. We need to be more creative in our own half. We don’t have the muscle to run one-out sets starting in our own 20m.

Based on the team we have, it should be possible to run set pieces inside our own 20-30m zone. Nofo or BJ can generate a quick play of the ball, then a set piece should immediately be ready.

@Kazoo-Kid said in Is it time for a rethink?:

While I hate hearing how we need to replicate 2005, tbh it wouldn’t hurt. We do need to coach to our strengths. Canberra don’t even have a controlling half, and they’re doing alright. Ricky Stuart coaches the team based on the players, not on an arbitrary, pre-conceived plan.

The keys, in my opinion, are the set moves we execute and where we do them. This season, I noticed that we were excellent when inside the opposition’s 30m. People were running the right lines and we were stringing passes together. When inside our own half, everything was one-out. No one running support lines, no set pieces, just relying on the outside backs to get us forward. We need to be more creative in our own half. We don’t have the muscle to run one-out sets starting in our own 20m.

Based on the team we have, it should be possible to run set pieces inside our own 20-30m zone. Nofo or BJ can generate a quick play of the ball, then a set piece should immediately be ready.

Its a pretty unrealistic expectation to have forwards to be immediately ready for a set piece from a kick return in our own 20-30m. Look at successful clubs method for dealing with this…massive wingers.

We tried developing juniors and lost them all. We tried buying players and ruined our cap. We’ve not been smart enough or good enough to be able to do either properly. It now seems like the plan is developing young guys and buying players when our cap opens up, which is the right idea as you need a balance of both I’m just not sure if we will be able to do it properly. We are struggling to sign big name players

We needed a culture reset and that’s what we’re in the process of doing. Madge might not win us a premiership but he’ll clear out majority of the dead wood

last edited by JC99

Recent Topics

Support our community by clicking here and joining our Forum Support Scheme