Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here



  • @Yossarian Medi scare not that he ALP would do anything to frighten and tell the electorate any lies … such angels .



  • @old_man_tiger said in Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here:

    @kiwitiger assuming you are more qualified in economics than the rest of us, is this constant talk of a budget surplus a good thing?

    Looking at how money flows in the economy, isn’t it a bad think for a government to make a profit? It scared me that both parties were campaigning on this idea. It seems like a terrible way to run a country but I’d appreciate your view as someone who worked in the field.

    From my memory of 3 unit economics about 20 years ago whether or not a budget surplus is desirable at any given point in time depends upon a number of things such as:

    • The current level of debt (in absolute terms and as a % of gross domestic product);
    • The terms of the debt (i.e. whether it is at favourable or unfavourable rates which impacts on the cost of servicing the debt);
    • The projected future cost of borrowing (i.e. if it’s going to be going up then accruing debt now is better than accruing debt when it’s going to cost more to service);
    • The state of the economy - if it’s growing at a reasonable rate then the government doesn’t necessarily need to be injecting cash by way of a deficit to stimulate growth;
    • The nature of the spending that is going to bring about any deficit - if the budget is going into deficit in order to fund capital investment that is likely to boost the economy down the track then it may be worthwhile.

    It is never as simple as “surplus = good economic management and deficit = bad economic management”, it all comes down to the reasoning.



  • This term is a poisoned chalice, and the first real test of the liberal party’s economic credentials I can remember. So let’s see what they have. Jury out here but at the end of it I’m pretty sure we won’t have 2 parties with policies that are line ball again. Next election I just hope we get a clear majority so someone can just point us in a direction…right or not



  • @Snake Like I said, I’m not really interested in debates. I think there’s a point of difference between the two things. The Coalition has never really believed in socialised medicine. They did freeze the scheduled payments. The death tax thing was a flat out nonsense. Of course Labor runs scare campaigns, they all do. I just think it was a whole other level this time.



  • @Yossarian said in Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here:

    I don’t really intend to get involved in debates. Most people on this forum probably know my political views. This loss has hit me pretty hard. Shorten might not be Bob Hawke but I’m worried the direction this country is heading when handouts for shareholders trumps money for health and education. Morrison is basically Ray Hadley with better teeth and a nice suit. He stands for nothing except keeping Labor out of government. At least Howard had ideas. This guy is a cheap, third rate plodder. I shall watch with interest to see if this surplus happens. It’s been an ugly campaign. Shorten for all his faults ran what I thought was a sincere and progressive platform. It’s a shame the ALP campaign was terrible. His ideas deserved better discussion than the moronic rotorts it got. The Chinese language stuff, the inheritance tax lies, the ridiculous claims about higher petrol prices - low rent politics for the easily frightened. I hope Albo can cut through the crap a bit better. You can only peddle the bogeyman lies for so long…

    I think you’ve relayed a few peoples sentiments yoss. I’m typically a liberal voter, but I liked the no-BS approach from labor to some burning issues that we really needed to tackle. If I was in Australia these days, I would have voted for them.

    The honest truth is that while the boomers are around, policy will always lean towards their self serving ways.

    I don’t agree that Bill didn’t sell his policies well enough. He vallently tried to take the biggest demographic on, for the first time in my memory, and lost.

    I hope to god that they vote in albo. The other alternatives are going to appeal to the wider population in the same way shorten did.



  • @Jedi_Tiger said in Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here:

    @diedpretty ABC the taxpayers unbiased coverage what a joke that is, i figure if you dont like murdoch papers dont buy them but some balance needs to come into the ABC left leaning coverage i say cut the funding bigtime put that money into better resources

    You have to be kidding - its the neutered ABC against the maggots empire - talk about bias - sky news would have to be the most biased channel in Australia.



  • @hammertime Cheers Hammer. I know we’re polar opposites politically but I appreciate your interest in actually debating ideas rather than resorting to base fears.



  • @dazza65 said in Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here:

    At the end of the day, I really think this was about the Silent Majority having an absolute gut full of the OTT lefty - listen to me I’m on twitter and I am right about everything- denizens of social media who think they have right to belittle everyone who doesn’t drop into line.

    Hi there Dazza,

    I think this ‘silent majority’ thing is an absolute myth. You’ve got Ray Hadley, Alan Jones, Andrew Bolt, Fox News, Daily Telegraph, The Liberal Party, The National Party, One Nation Party, Clive Palmer (does he count?) all ranting about this silent majority stuff. These people are shouty and they have a platform and they’re backed by big money and they’ve been in government and they just won government again. Who is this ‘silent’ majority?

    The silent majority are the nurses, police force, childcare workers, labourers etc who are not well represented by this government and who have no platform to speak. We hear enough from the ‘silent’ majority. And that phrase is used by conservatives as some sort of claim to marginalisation in the political debate which absolutely isn’t matched by reality.

    I respect your right to an opinion, I like policy discussion. I just don’t like using these nonsense generalisations. It’s as bad as the rubbish slogans of the GetUp people (who are probably some covert right wing movement designed to make the left look stupid).

    I would have hoped for better from the Liberal party this election. Democracy has suffered because they’re not prepared to attempt to explain their platform. Like both Abbott and Turnbull before him, Morrison will announce his policies in his budget next year, not attempt to defend them in an election (as Shorten did). Whatever side of politics you’re on, we should ask for more from our political parties and I’m disappointed the Liberals have been rewarded. Labor’s a pragmatic party, and Shorten is unispiring, but they attempted an honest approach to their ideas, and they were punished for it. I’m sick of empty rhetoric politics, I’m sick of big American speeches. Whatever you say about them, you can’t say Labor weren’t direct and honest (In victory, you haven’t heard the Liberals even claim that). Can we say the same about the Liberals? Maybe you think so, I look only at their form over the last 6 years as a guide.

    I’m not on social media, I’ve used Uber twice, I like talking to liberal party people and I don’t view what you’re saying as being anything like Hitler. Let’s stop reducing the opposition to silly generalisations, and start actually discussing what is best for the country. Whatever voice you represent, it certainly isn’t a silent one.

    I don’t agree this is the best country in the world, I don’t think it has to be. I don’t know why we even need to make such claims.

    The sun will rise tomorrow, but I don’t think politics and our country is bettered by this result.

    Labor deserved to lose power 6 years ago, The coalition deserved to get beat in this election. In my opinion, the reason they didn’t get beat is because labor was too honest with the people. I don’t think it’s a positive that a party’s transparency is used against them. I don’t think avoiding discussion of policies is a positive. And I don’t think Coalition have been good economically or helped ease the cost of living for working Australians. So I don’t think they’ve even succeeded in what is their supposed platform.

    Sorry to rant. I’m despondent.



  • @watersider all good as I said entitled to your opinion. But you lost me with

    GetUp people (who are probably some covert right wing movement designed to make the left look stupid).” You do realise Shorten was an inaugural board member of GetUp and if you have a look at their current makeup…

    Anyway, cheers



  • @dazza65 said in Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here:

    @watersider all good as I said entitled to your opinion. But you lost me with

    GetUp people (who are probably some covert right wing movement designed to make the left look stupid).” You do realise Shorten was an inaugural board member of GetUp and if you have a look at their current makeup…

    Anyway, cheers

    Great, You’ve added to my suspected right wing conspiracy theory. The right somehow installed a puppet into the union movement who worked dodgy deals that worked against workers, he was then deployed against Kevin Rudd and Julia gillard’s governments and he’s been working for the last six years to keep the coalition in government. No wonder he did so badly. A bit like what the Left did in getting Turnbull on the liberal side. It actually stacks up, but of course I’m joking.

    I don’t think Shorten is a messiah, and I don’t think GetUp is an effective organisation. I think Labor people are involved in lots of stupid movements and I think they make many bad decisions and their slogans are dumb. I just don’t like seeing slogans on either side infecting political discussions. That’s why i don’t like the silent majority stuff.

    Whatever Shorten has done in the past, It doesn’t change the policy platform they worked on and submitted to the people, which I feel was done in a way that was honest and reasoned. Do you doubt what they were going to do? I fear such approaches aren’t going to be attempted in future. And I don’t know what the Liberals plan to do in government on energy, an issue that is impacting cost of living and the broader economy.

    I thought assisting childcare workers and helping pensioners with their teeth were positive efforts as part of a policy platform that also would have created a more coherent approach to energy and was also clear about what benefits would also be taken away to pay for their policies.



  • @Yossarian said in Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here:

    @hammertime Cheers Hammer. I know we’re polar opposites politically but I appreciate your interest in actually debating ideas rather than resorting to base fears.

    Of course mate. Nothing worse than the one-line catch phase arguments. Nothing gets me more irritated than someone using the phrase ‘wake-up’ or debasing an argument to if it’s a tax or not.

    I used to work on the budget under Howard and Costello. Say what you like about their policy, but I saw first hand how good their execution was and why they thought the way they did. Some of their measures were very forward thinking and clever, without the public necessarily knowing. My respect for the liberals grew off of that.

    What we have today is a shambles of those days. I really believe shorten tried to bring back some ‘meat’ to this election and I’m saddened that he got punished for it. We’ve taken a hit to our democracy this week.

    I’m worried about my kids and the future of all of us. It scares me how people dismiss climate change. It’s almost like the anti-vax movement or the flat earthers, but with more people.

    I live in HK now and even if you don’t believe in global warming, how about the fact were breathing more rubbish into our lungs or have our cars still rely on black stuff from deep underground and shipped from far away places.

    Shorten was a character with little likeability, but geez he had some balls to take everything on at once. He had a lot more substance than the liberals.

    I just hope with Abbott out of the picture, the far right of the liberal party will take a hit and scomo can do some good.



  • @diedpretty sky news sell subscriptions and are entitled to speak a certain point of view the abc is tax payer funded and it is not impartial


  • Banned

    @diedpretty dream?
    The vast majority couldnt care less.



  • @Kev said in Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here:

    @diedpretty dream?
    The vast majority couldnt care less.

    The LNP certainly couldn’t care less - I was promised a world class internet and then these bumbling fools destroyed it - spin it anyway you want but Murdoch didn’t want it and the LNP bowed to his wishes. And how do you know the vast majority couldn’t care less - your all mouth and no substance.



  • Oh well, c’est la vie. Australians on the whole are politically apathetic and are easily led, but its a democracy and we’re far from corrupt at the ballot box so you have to accept the result.

    Let’s see if Scotty delivers on that projected surplus next year now, the bonus of offering little during the election means he has little to deliver on rather than the mountain of promises the ALP made (of which I admired and voted for, but a big ask at the end of the day to bring into reality.)

    I think it was a mix of the ALP dreaming too big and having a very unpopular leader trying to sell it.


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