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posted in National Rugby League read more

@innsaneink said in NRL Rd 4 *Spoilers:

@cochise said in NRL Rd 4 *Spoilers:

Manly robbed

Dear oh dear

🤣

I’m only disappointed because I hate Parra slightly more than Manly.

posted in General Discussion read more

@Tiger5150 said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@cochise said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@Cairnstigers said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@cochise said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@Tiger5150 said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@cochise said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@Tiger5150 said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@cochise said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@JD-Tiger said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

I don’t mean you Cochise, or you TrueTiger, but imo some people just like to argue and get all worked up.

‘Black Lives Matter’ and ‘Every Life Matters’ should be on the same side, they are not opposing views. Different ways of saying the same thing, with the same sentiment, even against the same thing.

I find it ironic, people advocating for equality and open-mindedness, less bigotry and discrimination, yet then oppose people who are saying the same thing but are expressing themselves differently. They’re wasting energy on the wrong people, but hey who knows, maybe they have excess energy.

The issue is “every life matters” is used to basically accuse those people fighting for equity for African Americans as trying to make out that Black lives are more important, that is not what black lives matters means.

Serious question, Do you mean equity or equality?

I mean equity, I believe in equity not equality

Genuinely interested in how that works. Equity for all regardless of merit and ability? We all get the same wage?

No equity is everyone getting what they need to succeed. EquityVsEquality.png

Looking at that picture made me think
If you want to succeed at something you have to work for it
You shouldn’t expect it to be handed to you on a platter
The main thing is thought that everyone should be given an equal and the same opportunity to succeed, and that is where much of the problem lays IMO
Whether you take that opportunity and do something with it, that is up to you as an individual
Myself personally I don’t care if you are Male Female Big Small European Asian Black or White Gay or Strate, if you are a good person you are a good person
If you are bad you are bad
Race colour sex age gender should have absolutely nothing to do with it
Unfortunately to many people in this world a judgmental
What the policeman and his fellow officers did in the USA is disgraceful IMO
Although I don’t know all the facts, the man who died was handcuffed. What did the officers think he was going to do
4 armed police against 1 handcuffed person on the ground, whether he is Black White Male Female Asian European Muslim or anything else you want to add, It is just wrong

Why as a society do we have a situation, where a group of people have a higher chance of living in poverty, why are indigenous people over represented in our jails?

These are the right questions to ask, and they are the questions that the Aust Govt of both persuasions assess every year with the Bridging the Gap Report.

To look at the over representation of indigenous in prison. The binary is that either the cops are racist and are just arresting black kids and throwing them in custody …or…indigenous people commit more crime than white people. The truth will obviously be in the middle. Courts dont send innocent black people to Gaol and it is probably true that some cops are less lenient on crime of it is committed by an indigenous person. Racism and prejudice are intertwined but separate. If you are a copper in atown where most of the crime is committed by a particular culture or community, you will associate that community with criminal behaviour.

OF course if indigenous people over represent in committing crimes, this is OBVIOUSLY connected to the same inbalance in poverty and perhaps opportunity. It is inarguable that the indigenous community is disproportionally living in poverty.

When it comes to these protests though and trying to reflect #BLM in US to here, the question that has to be answered is, is the outcome of indigenous poverty and crime a result of SYSTEMIC racism? In other words does the Australian system of government and community have rules ans systems to force this to be? IMO opinion no. Govts of both shades have continually tried to work out how to turn this around with varied success. ARe indigenous lives better than 10 years ago? THan 50 years ago? Is it heading in a better direction?
https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Community_Affairs/Completed_inquiries/2002-04/poverty/report/c13

IMO it cant be turned around in a short term fix.

I have been supportive of these protests in Aus because of the much publicised indigenous deaths in custody, however in 2015 the Govt assessed all deaths in custody and indigenous deaths in custody accounted for 17% of deaths in custody whereas they represent 27% of people in custody. Source : The Health of Australia’s Prisoners: 2015

Agreed mate, I am actually not supportive of the protests, in the current form and situation.

I believe there are obviously aspects of our society that are having a negative impact on indigenous people that is being shown in the poverty and incarceration statistics. I’m not saying I know what these issues are or how to fix them, but obviously something isn’t right. That is why it is such a hard situation to fix though and why it will take a long time.

posted in General Discussion read more

@Hangonaminute said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@Snake said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@Tiger5150 said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@Cairnstigers said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@cochise said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@Cairnstigers said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@cochise said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@Tiger5150 said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@cochise said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@Tiger5150 said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@cochise said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@JD-Tiger said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

I don’t mean you Cochise, or you TrueTiger, but imo some people just like to argue and get all worked up.

‘Black Lives Matter’ and ‘Every Life Matters’ should be on the same side, they are not opposing views. Different ways of saying the same thing, with the same sentiment, even against the same thing.

I find it ironic, people advocating for equality and open-mindedness, less bigotry and discrimination, yet then oppose people who are saying the same thing but are expressing themselves differently. They’re wasting energy on the wrong people, but hey who knows, maybe they have excess energy.

The issue is “every life matters” is used to basically accuse those people fighting for equity for African Americans as trying to make out that Black lives are more important, that is not what black lives matters means.

Serious question, Do you mean equity or equality?

I mean equity, I believe in equity not equality

Genuinely interested in how that works. Equity for all regardless of merit and ability? We all get the same wage?

No equity is everyone getting what they need to succeed. EquityVsEquality.png

Looking at that picture made me think
If you want to succeed at something you have to work for it
You shouldn’t expect it to be handed to you on a platter
The main thing is thought that everyone should be given an equal and the same opportunity to succeed, and that is where much of the problem lays IMO
Whether you take that opportunity and do something with it, that is up to you as an individual
Myself personally I don’t care if you are Male Female Big Small European Asian Black or White Gay or Strate, if you are a good person you are a good person
If you are bad you are bad
Race colour sex age gender should have absolutely nothing to do with it
Unfortunately to many people in this world a judgmental
What the policeman and his fellow officers did in the USA is disgraceful IMO
Although I don’t know all the facts, the man who died was handcuffed. What did the officers think he was going to do
4 armed police against 1 handcuffed person on the ground, whether he is Black White Male Female Asian European Muslim or anything else you want to add, It is just wrong

Why as a society do we have a situation, where a group of people have a higher chance of living in poverty, why are indigenous people over represented in our jails?

I would suspect that low socio economic living people would make up a large portion of those incarcerated
That wouldn’t discriminate between Black or white skin
I also suspect if many of these people, Black or White where working, they wouldn’t be incarcerated in the 1st place
What is the percentage of Black and White people out of work, and how does that relate to those who are incarcerated

What is the percentage of innocent people in prison versus the guilty?

My best mates son was in remand in Silverwater and was murdered … but hey he was white !

Yeah you’ll never hear about it, wrong colour.

You’ll also never see white people riot over it waving “White lives matter” signs, but you can’t say that without being labelled racist these days.
Strange times

lol…

posted in General Discussion read more

@Tiger5150 said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@cochise said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@Tiger5150 said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@cochise said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@Tiger5150 said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@cochise said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@Tiger5150 said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@cochise said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@JD-Tiger said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

I don’t mean you Cochise, or you TrueTiger, but imo some people just like to argue and get all worked up.

‘Black Lives Matter’ and ‘Every Life Matters’ should be on the same side, they are not opposing views. Different ways of saying the same thing, with the same sentiment, even against the same thing.

I find it ironic, people advocating for equality and open-mindedness, less bigotry and discrimination, yet then oppose people who are saying the same thing but are expressing themselves differently. They’re wasting energy on the wrong people, but hey who knows, maybe they have excess energy.

The issue is “every life matters” is used to basically accuse those people fighting for equity for African Americans as trying to make out that Black lives are more important, that is not what black lives matters means.

Serious question, Do you mean equity or equality?

I mean equity, I believe in equity not equality

Genuinely interested in how that works. Equity for all regardless of merit and ability? We all get the same wage?

No equity is everyone getting what they need to succeed. EquityVsEquality.png

If I understand what you mean, I disagree with you strongly Cochise. (edit: by strongly disagree, I dont mean I disagree with your right to believe that, but Im not sure what you are getting at is actually equity)

I think what you mean is equality of opportunity in which case everyone has the same opportunities and access to resources. This is equality, not equity.

Equity is equality of outcome.

I am a MASSIVE supporter and proponent of equality of opportunity. I am a massive critic and will always push against equality of outcome (equity).

Another edit: this discussion might be better in the politics thread.

No I am not in favour in everyone having the same access to opportunities and resources. I am of strong belief of everyone getting access to what they need to be successful. What that success looks like is different for everyone so the outcomes are different. I am not saying that a doctor and a delivery driver should have the same wage, but both those can be seen as being successful. Basically what I believe is that everyone should be given the support needed to make their life a success, and I don’t care if that support is equal for everyone as long as people are getting the support that they need. Now in saying that, is something that is very hard to achieve in the real world.

That is an interesting way of looking at it (that is not a smart arse comment or sarcasm) with respect to success. My point with regards to success is who decides what success is? AT a community level? At an individual level? What if an individual does equate success with becoming a surgeon but that individual doesnt have the required intelligence/work ethic/physical capability? You cant legislate for it.

Im not sure that you and I are actually talking about different things. I would never call it success because what is success and who has a right to success, it is something earned. But I go agree with everyone having the same opportunity to achieve success through their own hard work, intelligent and initiative and as you say in order to get to that point, to get that opportunity, unequal support may be required.

If the opportunity to be a doctor requires a medical degree for $60K, that opportunity is easier for a rich kid than a kid from a poor family, some kid may need travel assistance or whatever and I agree with support in that area. But using this as an example, the ATAR should be a level playing field and then the intelligence and hard work would be the deciding factor. Then that is equal opportunity.

Equal opportunity to succeed I’ll sign up for but that is equality of opportunity, it is not equity.
Having spent most my life as a teacher in disadvantaged areas my view of equity comes from the education sector. We are very close in our thinking here and the only seperation really is the terminology used. Primarily fairness is more important than equalness to me. This link explains it pretty well in the education sense.

https://www.teachermagazine.com.au/columnists/geoff-masters/what-is-equity-in-education

posted in General Discussion read more

@Cairnstigers said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@cochise said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@Cairnstigers said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@cochise said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@Tiger5150 said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@cochise said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@Tiger5150 said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@cochise said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@JD-Tiger said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

I don’t mean you Cochise, or you TrueTiger, but imo some people just like to argue and get all worked up.

‘Black Lives Matter’ and ‘Every Life Matters’ should be on the same side, they are not opposing views. Different ways of saying the same thing, with the same sentiment, even against the same thing.

I find it ironic, people advocating for equality and open-mindedness, less bigotry and discrimination, yet then oppose people who are saying the same thing but are expressing themselves differently. They’re wasting energy on the wrong people, but hey who knows, maybe they have excess energy.

The issue is “every life matters” is used to basically accuse those people fighting for equity for African Americans as trying to make out that Black lives are more important, that is not what black lives matters means.

Serious question, Do you mean equity or equality?

I mean equity, I believe in equity not equality

Genuinely interested in how that works. Equity for all regardless of merit and ability? We all get the same wage?

No equity is everyone getting what they need to succeed. EquityVsEquality.png

Looking at that picture made me think
If you want to succeed at something you have to work for it
You shouldn’t expect it to be handed to you on a platter
The main thing is thought that everyone should be given an equal and the same opportunity to succeed, and that is where much of the problem lays IMO
Whether you take that opportunity and do something with it, that is up to you as an individual
Myself personally I don’t care if you are Male Female Big Small European Asian Black or White Gay or Strate, if you are a good person you are a good person
If you are bad you are bad
Race colour sex age gender should have absolutely nothing to do with it
Unfortunately to many people in this world a judgmental
What the policeman and his fellow officers did in the USA is disgraceful IMO
Although I don’t know all the facts, the man who died was handcuffed. What did the officers think he was going to do
4 armed police against 1 handcuffed person on the ground, whether he is Black White Male Female Asian European Muslim or anything else you want to add, It is just wrong

Why as a society do we have a situation, where a group of people have a higher chance of living in poverty, why are indigenous people over represented in our jails?

I would suspect that low socio economic living people would make up a large portion of those incarcerated
That wouldn’t discriminate between Black or white skin
I also suspect if many of these people, Black or White where working, they wouldn’t be incarcerated in the 1st place
What is the percentage of Black and White people out of work, and how does that relate to those who are incarcerated

Why is the percentage of indigenous people who are out of work higher? Why is the percentage of indigenous people living in poverty higher?

posted in General Discussion read more

@Tiger5150 said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@cochise said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@Tiger5150 said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@cochise said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@Tiger5150 said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@cochise said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@JD-Tiger said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

I don’t mean you Cochise, or you TrueTiger, but imo some people just like to argue and get all worked up.

‘Black Lives Matter’ and ‘Every Life Matters’ should be on the same side, they are not opposing views. Different ways of saying the same thing, with the same sentiment, even against the same thing.

I find it ironic, people advocating for equality and open-mindedness, less bigotry and discrimination, yet then oppose people who are saying the same thing but are expressing themselves differently. They’re wasting energy on the wrong people, but hey who knows, maybe they have excess energy.

The issue is “every life matters” is used to basically accuse those people fighting for equity for African Americans as trying to make out that Black lives are more important, that is not what black lives matters means.

Serious question, Do you mean equity or equality?

I mean equity, I believe in equity not equality

Genuinely interested in how that works. Equity for all regardless of merit and ability? We all get the same wage?

No equity is everyone getting what they need to succeed. EquityVsEquality.png

If I understand what you mean, I disagree with you strongly Cochise. (edit: by strongly disagree, I dont mean I disagree with your right to believe that, but Im not sure what you are getting at is actually equity)

I think what you mean is equality of opportunity in which case everyone has the same opportunities and access to resources. This is equality, not equity.

Equity is equality of outcome.

I am a MASSIVE supporter and proponent of equality of opportunity. I am a massive critic and will always push against equality of outcome (equity).

Another edit: this discussion might be better in the politics thread.

No I am not in favour in everyone having the same access to opportunities and resources. I am of strong belief of everyone getting access to what they need to be successful. What that success looks like is different for everyone so the outcomes are different. I am not saying that a doctor and a delivery driver should have the same wage, but both those can be seen as being successful. Basically what I believe is that everyone should be given the support needed to make their life a success, and I don’t care if that support is equal for everyone as long as people are getting the support that they need. Now in saying that, is something that is very hard to achieve in the real world.
What would be even better is would be for the barriers that some people have to being successful being removed, but the likelihood of that isn’t great.

posted in General Discussion read more

@Cairnstigers said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@cochise said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@Tiger5150 said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@cochise said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@Tiger5150 said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@cochise said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@JD-Tiger said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

I don’t mean you Cochise, or you TrueTiger, but imo some people just like to argue and get all worked up.

‘Black Lives Matter’ and ‘Every Life Matters’ should be on the same side, they are not opposing views. Different ways of saying the same thing, with the same sentiment, even against the same thing.

I find it ironic, people advocating for equality and open-mindedness, less bigotry and discrimination, yet then oppose people who are saying the same thing but are expressing themselves differently. They’re wasting energy on the wrong people, but hey who knows, maybe they have excess energy.

The issue is “every life matters” is used to basically accuse those people fighting for equity for African Americans as trying to make out that Black lives are more important, that is not what black lives matters means.

Serious question, Do you mean equity or equality?

I mean equity, I believe in equity not equality

Genuinely interested in how that works. Equity for all regardless of merit and ability? We all get the same wage?

No equity is everyone getting what they need to succeed. EquityVsEquality.png

Looking at that picture made me think
If you want to succeed at something you have to work for it
You shouldn’t expect it to be handed to you on a platter
The main thing is thought that everyone should be given an equal and the same opportunity to succeed, and that is where much of the problem lays IMO
Whether you take that opportunity and do something with it, that is up to you as an individual
Myself personally I don’t care if you are Male Female Big Small European Asian Black or White Gay or Strate, if you are a good person you are a good person
If you are bad you are bad
Race colour sex age gender should have absolutely nothing to do with it
Unfortunately to many people in this world a judgmental
What the policeman and his fellow officers did in the USA is disgraceful IMO
Although I don’t know all the facts, the man who died was handcuffed. What did the officers think he was going to do
4 armed police against 1 handcuffed person on the ground, whether he is Black White Male Female Asian European Muslim or anything else you want to add, It is just wrong

Why as a society do we have a situation, where a group of people have a higher chance of living in poverty, why are indigenous people over represented in our jails?

posted in General Discussion read more

@formerguest said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@innsaneink said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@cochise said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@innsaneink said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@cochise said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@TrueTiger said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@cochise said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

@TrueTiger said in Coronavirus Outbreak:

Once again,Black people are human and are equal,if someone says Black lives don’t matter then that’s a personal thing they have to deal with,dont class me as a person who thinks black lives don’t matter because you are on the wrong tangient.
It still doesn’t give the people the right to burn,loot or destroy buildings and businesses in his name, just because he ws killed by a white police officer and have now made a racial disgrace out of it,the officer has been charged with murder and it will be dealt with,once again do people have the right to destroy others lives because they have a cause to Cochise……

Where did I say any of that?

READ your previous post where you said people are genuinely saying black lives don’t matter…

So are you trying to say that there isn’t people in this world that don’t care if someone dies if they are black? That is all black lives matter means, its directed at people who believe that a death is inconsequential just because that person was black. Its not saying that black live are the only ones that matter, its saying black live matter too

Your certain there are people who think that a death is inconsequential if the person that died is black… But it appears you’re saying that no black person anywhere would believe that a death is inconsequential if it’s a white death?.
Maybe I’m becoming an old fart but I really find it hard to follow a lot of these social things g’s nowadays

One is more widespread and institutionalised

Yeah I under stand that… But if one Just one black feels the same. About a white life as some whites feel about black lives not mattering… Then surely
someone saying ‘all lives matter’ isn’t irrelevant?
Not being argumenitive and truly trying to understand this as I only heard the other day Ashton Kutcher going on about this and I can’t for the life of me follow or understand what’s wrong with someone saying ALM

I see it as being very different when taken in context. For instance, I thought that I knew where @TrueTiger was coming from as I probably know him a lot better than @cochise, whereas I will take it from others as a deliberate attempt to state that there is no discrepancy of treatment due to skin colour.

Exactle, I also know where @TrueTiger was coming from and this isn’t an attack on him in the slightest. Just an offshoot of what he said.