Poor bloke looked very concussed. Thoughts are with him. Great fella.
Might be best for him to call it a career after tonight. He’s taken a lot of head knocks and has no 2021 contract. It would be the best for him and his family in my view if he considered ending it. If that’s it for him I wish him all the best.
I like to create parameters or filters when it comes to change projects. Signings and resignings qualify as change projects. Here is a rough idea of a 5 pronged filter.
If a signing does not fall into this category I do not make it.
For instance a Brent Naden could qualify as a 4 or a 5. The qualifier for Brent is that we do not sign him on more than a 1 year low cost liability. We cannot afford to allow our desperation to attract talent to disrupt our mindset towards roster management. The outcome for doing so is to get Josh Reynolds or BJ Leilua on your rosters overpaid and on long contracts.
Using this filter system to analyse some of our recent signings you can see whether or not it was a good signing.
James Roberts - Is a 4. He’s on a 1 year deal and he isn’t paid that much, so the signing is astute regardless of the outcome.
Stefano Utoikamanu - Is a 2. Fine signing. Throw in Daine Laurie, Shawn Blore, Jake Simpkin, Tuki Simpkins, Jock Madden, Alex Seyfarth etc. into this category. We are actually excelling in this area mostly.
David Nofoaluma resigning - He is a 3. Bad signing. David is not a marquee transformative player. Re-signing him the way we did was a desperation move and a bad business decision.
BJ Leilua - Is a 3. Bad signing. He is actually a 4 and did not qualify because of his contract requirements. Should not have made this signing.
Tom Amone - Is a 5. Can’t really fault this signing. Low risk, potentially high reward.
Joe Ofahengaue - He is a 1. It’s not an amazing 1 but it is a 1 all the same. Low end 1 bordering on a 4. It’s acceptable.
Adam Douehi - He was signed as a marquee and fortunately he actually may be turning into one. I have been impressed. He’s a lower end marquee talent but it could have gone quite poorly because he didn’t really profile as one going in due to relative inexperience. I would have probably got this one wrong if I was in the war room as I would have advised we offer less money than we did.
Analysing our signings using this lens reveals that we have a pretty typical pattern. There seems to be largely an intelligence to our signings that occasionally veers into questionable desperation signings. This is the effect of long term failure and a pressure to win now. Signings like Nofoaluma, Leilua etc. are signings we really should not be making as we are in a rebuild. Nofoaluma and Leilua will not make the difference to a rebuilding side. The on field value of these two players is on par with the same output you can get hitting on a 2, 4, and even a 1. They were overvalued.
Let’s say we signed Reimis Smith instead of BJ Leilua. Would our on field performance be better? I would say yes. Not only would it be, but Reimis has higher upside than BJ and would have cost us less.
Let’s say we kept Corey Thompson instead of Nofoaluma. Would our on field performance be better? Probably not, but it’s close. But we would have paid a lot less and probably got similar output which would have allowed us to invest in other areas.
It appears the Tigers have gotten very astute at identifying young talent but lack when identifying the value of the players they already possess and lack at assessing the value of senior talent, or at the very least take too many risks in that regard.
We have been spoken of as in the market for, or potentially in the race for a couple of signings and I’ll assess them on these parameters.
Brent Naden - In our roster he should be viewed as a 4. This limits him to getting a 1 year offer (2 maybe with the team option), and low money. This should be our offer and we shouldn’t budge. If we don’t get him so be it. We can’t be taking more risks. Our success at identifying younger talent should give us the confidence that if we don’t get him that we should be able to nail a youngster that gives equal output on the field.
Adam Reynolds - He is a genuine 3. I question whether he actually is a quality 3 though primarily due to his age. I don’t really think it is healthy for the Wests Tigers to be making signings that we can’t perceive contributing to success 3-4+ years down the track. Can Adam Reynolds make us go from also rans to win right now? If so then sure. If he can take us to the finals at the very least I can see an argument for making the signing even knowing he won’t be here because gradual improvements will help the club with slow transformation. I would be inclined to throw our hat into the ring but I wouldn’t be hanging my hat on the signing either.
There are a LOT of other players off contract and here are some of the players that I personally would ensure we submit an offer for along with comment.
John Asiata (1) - 1-2 year deal.
Xavier Coates (3) - min 3 year deal. This kid is a genuine emerging superstar. I would make a real effort to get him.
Kotoni Staggs (3) - min 3 year deal. Similar to Coates but I think Coates is actually the better player long term and also I don’t think I’d be willing to offer Staggs the money that he would get elsewhere, but I’d still make an offer.
Caleb Aekins (5) - 1-2 year deal. He would be good roster depth at the right price. Definitely not a bidding war though.
Sebastian Kris (2) - 2-3 year deal. This kid looks like the real deal. I wouldn’t be inclined to go anywhere near marquee money, but we should offer him a deal that pays him around the same as we’re paying Laurie.
Dunamis Lui (1) - 1-2 year deal.
Harley Smith-Shields (2) - 2 year deal. I don’t think we’d match the market for him but I do think we should be diligent and ensuring that we are issuing contracts and sounding out as many of these types of players as we can. If we happen to nab one of these talents because their existing club can’t afford them and other clubs just haven’t got their eyes on him then that’s a major coup. Similarly to how we landed Ryan Matterson in the first place.
Nick Meaney (1) - 1-2 year deal.
William Kennedy (3) - Min 3 year deal. This is an interesting one for me. I know he plays the same position as Laurie, but Kennedy has shown star potential this year and this might be the last year anyone can get him for non marquee money. The Sharks have a lot of roster management to deal with this season and his dad played for Balmain. If we managed to get Kennedy here now I would welcome that and I would be okay with figuring out what to do with him and Laurie as a tandem later because they’d instantly be our best two attacking players anyway. Laurie to 6 and Douehi to centre, backrow or lock maybe.
Nene MacDonald (4) - 1 year deal. Nene is a great talent and the type of player we never seem to have (big, athetlic outside back). Obviously his injury history is terrible but if we can get him cheap as a project I think he’d be worth a year.
Billy Magoulias (5) - 1 year deal. Billy is a good footballer and I think he makes a good prospect for a 13 in this current meta. He’s also someone that I could easily see blooming a bit late. I’ve had my eye on him a while.
Siosifa Talakai - (5) - 2 year deal.
Patrick Herbert - (1) - 2 year deal. - I like the way he plays. He hits hard, runs hard, and never stops trying. We need more of his kind in our club.
Dale Finucane - (3) - 3 year deal. - Getting someone like Finucane is a perfect signing for us. Professional, high class forward from a great system. I would have a good crack at getting him in.
Bunty Afoa - (1) - 2-3 year deal. - Bunty is still quite young and has probably got his best years ahead of him. Pretty good recent track record of under the radar forwards leaving the Warriors and becoming more successful. We need more guys who run hard with fast leg speed. He’d help our middle a lot.
Peta Hiku - (1) - 2 year deal. I often wonder whether we’d have more success if we made more purely defensive signings. Hiku is one of the better defensive centres in the game. Plug him into one of our centre positions and yeah he might not break a game open but he can sure help us with defensive fragility which will keep us in more games for longer.
Adam Pompey - (2) - 2 year deal. I like the size and athetlicism of Pompey as competing for a centre or wing spot at the Tigers. He’d be an upgrade on most of what we have at those positions.
Lachlan Fitzgibbon - (1) - 3 year deal. Probably entering his prime. I would expect Newcastle will give him more money than he should get paid so we probably wouldn’t get him but I’d put a contract on the table. I like his personality as a fit with Madge. Would be our second best backrower immediately (maybe even first depending on how you feel about Looch).
Nathan Brown - (1) - 3 year deal. I’d love to bring him back. He’s the exact type of player we lack. He’d be one of my main targets if I was running the shop. I wouldn’t give him marquee dollars though. Set and forget 13 and Twal goes back to the prop rotation. Big win for us.
Ray Stone - (5) - 1 year deal. Another I’d like to bring back. A bit of a Nathan Brown backup plan. I love the way Ray plays also and he’d give similar to our roster at a budget.
Brent Naden - (4) - 1 year deal with a TO. I do think he’s a less risky version of the Roberts signing. Let Roberts go and bring him in if the price is right and we probably are better off.
Adam Reynolds - (3) - 3 year deal. Go for it, why not? He’s the best player on the market. I don’t really want to get into a bidding war for him though if the likes of North Queensland want to give him Morgan’s money or something. We’d need to get him on account of the Madge effect or if he doesn’t want to leave Sydney and no other Sydney teams are in the race. It would also require us to find someone to take Brooks off us and take quite a bit of his salary also.
Jaydn Su’a - (1) - 3 year deal. Su’a would be a great fit for us as a backrow option. Hits hard, runs hard. Would be an upgrade.
Fletcher Baker (2) - 3 year deal.
Egan Butcher (2) - 3 year deal.
Angus Crichton (3) - 3-4 year deal.
Issac Liu (1) - 2-3 year deal.
Billy Smith (2) - 2 year deal.
Daniel Tupou (1) - 2-3 year deal.
Sam Walker (3) - 5 year deal. Here is one I would sort of break my own rules for because he could genuinely change our fortunes for the next decade if we hit on him. We should be prepared to give him marquee money. I don’t care about the risks here. At 18 he stepped in and looked like an immortal 2 games straight. This kid is going to be insanely good and we can’t afford to let the Roosters lock him down for the next several years on a cheap contract or they will reset their legacy. At the very least we need to be in there setting his market value at a point where it forces the Roosters to consider letting go of some of the aforementioned names, of which I would take any/all if we could. If the Roosters can get Walker on under $400k the rest of the teams in the NRL are insane. I don’t care about the Politis effect, make the offer. I want to take on the Roosters big time this salary season because they have the best off contract talent and the trick to getting access to it is through Walker.
Thomas Mikaele (2) - 1 year extension. I think he’s still got improvement to come. He’s the only off contract player of ours I’d resign right now. Maybe Amone if he comes good.
I’m told Latrell will be a Tiger by the end of this week. Source is good.
I am just pondering this side and I am not entirely sure how badly we need signings. The following players are 22 or under that have played significant first grade and are building combinations with the halves (Brooks/Douehi) and each other, learning on the fly and are about to all have an off season together.
Daine Laurie
Asu Kepaoa
Tommy Talau
Stefano Utoikamanu
Jake Simpkin
Tuikimihia Simpkins
Kelma Tuilagi
Shawn Blore
Alex Seyfarth
Each of these have shown quick development, some greater than others.
Our Jersey Flegg side was leading the comp when it ended and boasts some great talent, especially in the forwards.
I’m excited.
The success of this is going to entirely depend on whether Maguire and Sheens have synergy together, which is going to come down to whether they like and respect one another. If they have or can build a mutual respect and friendship this will work out very well for us. Two premiership-winning coaches running this footy club can only mean good things.
Correlation is causation. Liddle goes out there and we score three tries in ten. We won the last game he started. He’s an absolute weapon.
For me he seems the logical choice to be captain of this side. He has the most passion, he puts in the most effort and if we need a big time play out of anyone in the side he is who I would be giving the ball to. For me he ticks every box.
I actually think we’ve been victimised by our own good nature a lot.
Never had a blip when it comes to PEDs, seem to get physically overmatched year in year out.
Never had a serious salary cap issue.
Victimised by Cleary, Farah, Marshall, Matterson, Woods, Moses, Tedesco, Issac Moses and now Aloiai.
Everything I see from our club has been that we just do what’s right. We did everything with JAC by the books and Melbourne even thanked us for it. Got nothing out of it except more embarrassed by the miss. Let Matterson go because he wasn’t “happy” and probably moreso so he wouldn’t poison the playing group, got nothing for it and seems to have just made other players want to do it.
Really ticks me off that we have this reputation all because we’ve just done the “right” thing.
Apologies Aloiai but I’m with Lee. Play for the Tigers and do your best or enjoy reggies.
This is awesome news. A great player. Professional clubman. Someone who works hard and bleeds for the club. Remember this is a bloke that Madge DROPPED and that came back afterwards and was our player of the year and Dally M Winger of the Year a season later. Re-signing him was necessary as it says a ton about our culture, our club and our coach.
Anyone complaining about this needs to pull their head out of the sand and actually be a supporter for once instead of a Chicken Little sky is falling dipstick all the time. This is one of the greatest Tigers of all time, our current best damn player and he re-signed in his prime on a reasonable contract. If you’re gonna complain about this then I feel bad for those around you honestly.
@demps said in Luke Brooks:
@mike said in Luke Brooks:
@tiger5150 said in Luke Brooks:
@pascoes_barber said in Luke Brooks:
@tiger5150 said in Luke Brooks:
@terry-t-nuts said in Luke Brooks:
@gnr4life said in Luke Brooks:
@terry-t-nuts said in Luke Brooks:
Brooks is poo, he has the worst kicking game of any half in the NRL. He is utterly clueless and is unable to game manage. He can tackle but who cares when that is one of the last requirements on his job description.
I’m glad you waited 381 pages to give us this new, unique insight.
Some people need constant reminding or else come 2022 they will forget.
Worth a try at 6 I think. What does everyone else think? Could it work?
At another club? Absolutely.
Punt him.
I just think that Brooksy has not had the right environment yet. Like any halfback he needs a pack going forward. He also needs a coach to suit his skill set. Of course he also needs a no.6 and no.9 that wont overcall him but still encourage him.
I dont think we should get rid of him until we give him everything he needs.
What does everyone else think? I think its important and needs to be discussed in some detail.
Brooks is stale, his decision making is poor to say the least and he is unable to read the game and do what is needed to win. He would be better off in a new environment.
This x 100
Clear as day.
Everyone can see it.I don’t think Brooks doesn’t want the challenge.
Happy at home on the good money, stinking it up. Week in, week out.
He’s pretty chill. That’s our club. Chillety chill. I don’t think he enjoys losing or the criticism. But he is just not wired in such a way to do a Moses or Tedesco and angle for a release to his benefit. He is a good bloke with a good heart and soft demeanour and probably just really wants to make it work. I can relate. So you’re maybe sorta right but I don’t think it’s malicious.
Brooks to me is somewhere around the 7th to 10th best starting 7 in the NRL. Melbourne or the Roosters could compete with Brooks. Hell maybe a few other sides could still challenge for a title with Brooks. But when you also have a bottom half starting 9, bottom half starting 1 (no offence to Laurie who is a rookie but he clearly is), bottom half starting 6, bottom half starting props (no offence to Stef at all who is actually probably already in the top half of starting props but we have nobody across from here worth a damn) and arguably the WORST outside backs in the comp. You cannot win with Brooks.
So Brooks takes most of the criticism because he holds the ball the most and wears the 7. But like, how actually good of a bloke must Luke Brooks be. Can you imagine how off the rails a guy like Moses, or Pearce, would have gone under the pressure that Brooks has endured?
So I guess what I am saying is like lay off the guy for a change, he cops enough. Point the blame squarely where it belongs and that’s at the person who has built the football department Justin Pascoe. Or further to the point the actual owners of the club who seem not to care enough to get involved in improving the on-field success of the club. Blind Freddy can see things that need fixing that go un-fixed.
We need to move on from Pascoe, Hartigan, Madge, Brooks, the lot. Bring in a brand new CEO with a vision. I like the move to give Tim Sheens full control over football because he will at least be able to recruit other people that know what they’re doing in the coaching and front office ranks. I doubt he’ll have much pull with players but if he can bring in guys that admire him than players admire then we can start to dig our way out of this mess.
Honestly both.
I wouldn’t be happy to be left with either after this.
If it could only be one, I’d get rid of Madge simply because we need a seismic shift and change of coach has the biggest impact.
Which is ironic because I think Madge is a better coach than Brooks is a halfback. But like a coach is a coach, a player can be a hooker, halfback, five-eighth, dropped or whatever is required.
So essentially I would punt Madge and tell the new coach that if he thinks Brooks at halfback is a problem, to move him, drop him or move him on.
But if I was Pascoe I’d be shopping Brooks and getting rid of Madge at the same time personally.
Concord is a fine base, so long as we create good satellite bases of operations and have community engagement initiatives galore in the other places we need to. Particularly the Macarthur but extending out in the Central West, North Coast, SEQ and NZ also imo.
@izotope said in Positive affirmations and manifestation thread:
@facepalmer said in Positive affirmations and manifestation thread:
@izotope said in Positive affirmations and manifestation thread:
Nothing wrong with been positive but only 2 of those are remotely possible.
Can you give me an example of a really possible awesome thing that could happen?
Luke brooks to canberra on a 3 year deal, tigers are chipping in only 250k
How bout this one. Tigers gamble on Brooks and Madge pays off as they secure playoff berth.
@bighairymadge said in Signing Suggestions & Rumours:
@facepalmer said in Signing Suggestions & Rumours:
they spent all that money retaining Walker, the Butchers, Baker
Did Candlestick-Maker get a contract extension too?
I often chuckle to myself about that. Imagine of they had someone named Maker there too. Like Thon Maker is an actual person lol.
The best coach we could sign is hands down Cameron Ciraldo. Barrett leaving Penrith managed to snake Matt Burton from them. Sign Ciraldo and poach the eyeballs out of their juniors that love the bloke.
@tig_prmz said in Paul Green:
Wow seems like I’m in the minority here. Wouldn’t say Green is my first choice if Bennet is available but certainly not a bad choice that people are making it out.
Green is Madge 2.0.
@gnr4life said in Signing Suggestions & Rumours:
Watch everyone lose their minds when the Roosters sign a few players over the off season. Conveniently forgetting Friend and the Morris twins are off the books.
they won’t sign much, they spent all that money retaining Walker, the Butchers, Baker etc.
@tiger_fanatic3 said in Paul Green:
@facepalmer said in Paul Green:
@kingrobbie said in Paul Green:
@facepalmer said in Paul Green:
@yeahcaz said in Paul Green:
Making this a thread makes it a possibility, please don’t.
yeah this is asking for trouble, this dude obviously hasn’t worked out how the simulation runs
Have I upset the matrix or something? 🥲
Yep all over now. Green to Tigers confirmed.
u trying to be funny?
Lol nup it’s gonna happen now. The only way this doesn’t happen is if the Dragons get him first.
