How can anyone possibly be complaining about increased access to the inner-workings of the club, in any format? The off-season doco we produced a few years back under Cleary was very good, if comparatively short, and this can only be of high interest and information to league fans in general.

I’ve watched the Tottenham series; there are several others on NFL and Premier League teams, all make for compelling viewing when you actually get to see what footballers and club officials really go through day-to-day.

Anyone on here making snide comments - there are several of you - pull your heads in. You ask for more transparency, more innovation, more access; club goes ahead and takes this novel step amongst all league clubs, and all you can come up with is mockery. You must really wonder how much of a compulsive cynic you are.

I wonder if it also keeps News Ltd off our backs for a while, given that Steve Crawley’s equally slimy brother didn’t mind heaping on us last year and I haven’t heard from him in 2021.

What a wretched thread this is, I’ve just read it start to finish with the benefit of hindsight.

So many fans so quick to cast a judgement without the facts, then waste time analysing the “intent” or “hidden meaning” of club press releases.

It starts to border on twitter-type toxicity, frankly. Even the earlier suggestion, along the lines of “what can’t his wife drive herself!?!?” and it gets 4 or 5 thumbs-up. Toxic.

You have to wonder, honestly, people complain so much about the apparent fragility or “lack of mental toughness” of players during football games, but think nothing of heaping crap on those same players week on week, or at a moment’s notice based on something they think they read in the paper. As if the two aren’t related, as if the player won’t do better if there is less external noise.

Esp during COVID year, without precedent. I suppose everyone outside of football is doing just great, no fighting with the wife, no stress or pressure, no unique challenges, no mistakes made or difficulty concentrating on the immediate task.

@Russell said in Matterson unhappy at Tigers?:

@Tiger_Steve said in Matterson unhappy at Tigers?:

@Russell said in Matterson unhappy at Tigers?:

@Tiger_Steve said in Matterson unhappy at Tigers?:

@Harvey said in Matterson unhappy at Tigers?:

I will be cancelling my membership rollover tomorrow. Want to see how this plays out

I’m doing the same. I sent an email to WestsTigers AFTER I rolled over my membership stating how disenfranchised I felt as a member. I listed many ways that I felt the club showed no respect for members. I also listed ways to turn members into advocates for the club. I received back an explanation that simply justified everything they did.
Now, yet again, we are in the middle of a crap fight. This garbage never happens at Melbourne or roosters.
I’ll always support the club and I’ll watch every game but I’m showing my disappointment by pulling my membership. Sad thing, the club couldn’t care less.

Doesn’t rolling over the m’ship mean you are renewing?

If so, did you say in your email that you are opting out?

I initially opted in. I’ve since said not to renew my membership

Sad Steve, Think we four may end up doing the same.

I don’t get you guys. Cleary backstabs Tigers and now Matto might be doing the same, and your response is to withdraw membership and penalise the club.

I don’t know what you expect the club to do. Damned in all directions if your key signing suddenly wants more money and kicks stones to get his way.

“This never happens at the Storm or Roosters”. Well, firstly, go support those damned clubs if that is the benchmark. Secondly, no, teams currently in the top 1 or 2 clubs tend to not have too many upset players.

But actually contract nonsense happens at every club, that’s unfortunately part of the deal with sports. Folau backstabbed Melbourne to sign a 4-year deal with Broncos after his debut season. Justin Hodges sought out a mid-year transfer to Broncos from the Roosters in 2004. Ryan Cross strung the Roosters along for a while then defected to rugby. Will Chambers defected to rugby after the 2009 GF. RTS turned down a Roosters deal to take on a lucrative one at Warriors. Rarely do players publicly weasel their way out of deals, but they “backstab” clubs all the time.

“I’ll still support the club and watch every game”, but, you know, I won’t part with any money, to show Tigers how disappointed I am. That’s such a disappointing outlook. I understand if money is a problem, but to quit on the Tigers when they need support the most. I mean, bandwagoning is easy, easy as pie to ride with the successful team. But the club needs strong supporters when times are tough.

Apparently we need tougher management and a tough coach, but supporters can just quit.

A couple of things:

(1) There was no Pooper warning, please remember the regulations.

(2) Looks like 95% of fans are united that we back the coach, and it’s not so common to have unity amongst fans, so at least that’s a good thing.

(3) Players SHOULD be walking on eggshells fearing the outcome of repeat poor performances. The opposite is complacency.

(4) There hasn’t been a single player unduly dropped in 2020. They’ve all had plenty of opportunity and the coach has always stuck strong for a decent period.

(5) The team lacks toughness, that’s our primary issue. There is some talent, there is effort, but we lack toughness in those difficult moments, particularly season 2020 where the rules have changed (literally) and COVID has affected everyone’s preparation. So many teams in 2020 are fragile, but it’s not something we should be excusing.

(6) Where a team lacks toughness, you bring in a tough coach. I don’t care about “losing dressing room” or “lack of delicate man management” if the toughness is missing, first and foremost. Talk to me about improved player management when they are tough first.

(7) Broncos are a prime example of a team full of talent, playing like busteds and lacking the mental toughness to do anything about it. Seibold is a snowflake and the roster has responded by failing to do any hard work. That is not the direction Tigers need to go, and we are on a knife’s edge right now of getting better or far worse.

(8) This is a rare opportunity to do the opposite of Tigers 2012-2019 - back the coach, work out a new single-stadium deal and double-down on culture development, player strength and conditioning, junior investment. Identify the trouble-makers and weak-minded and put them on the sidelines.

@Madge said in Pascoe and madge pull an ivan:

@avocadoontoast 100%

Some fans so quick to stick the boot into the club again. If you don’t like it, don’t watch it, stop complaining.

Yes it’s pretty amateur, it’s probably two dudes using a company laptop and some mikes they bought on ebay, but who cares. Have a laugh if you find it amusing, don’t get upset.

Consider it an insight into the shoestring budget this club might be operating under.

Are other clubs doing live Q&As? They didn’t have to do it live, they could have edited it, played safe, posted it up next week. In fact they didn’t have to do it at all.

I’ve read a lot of folks past few weeks demanding the club comment on the off-field stuff happening right now and plans for 2020, so they make this effort, and same or other fans say - pointless.

Got an essay here

I want to start by saying this thread prompted me to have a think about what’s going on with Tigers fans pre-season 2020. We’ve finished 9th a million times and not played finals most years, but there appears to me to be an unprecedented doom and gloom on here.

Personally, how one might have had optimism in the first year of, say, the Potter or Jason Taylor reigns, but have lost it now, I don’t know. I’m pretty convinced that Madge is a far better calibre of coach than those two and, dare I say it, the best credentialed coach we’ve ever had besides Tim Sheens.

Similarly, @avocadoontoast posted, re hoisting the white flag

“I’d be ok hoisting it now to be honest. I’ve just about had enough.

Why this year? Tigers have struggled for as long as I’ve been alive, but why 2020 is it now too much?

Clearly the team needs to be better and that either comes from improving the current players, or improving the roster. I have a strong impression that this whole Latrell business has really gotten to some people, simply because there was this opportunity of rapidly and handsomely improving the roster in one single shot, and now it appears to have been lost, and it’s crushed a few people.

These people otherwise have no confidence in improving the current players, because that’s been a long-term strategy that hasn’t worked out, and Madge simply managed to repeat the previous middle-ground 9th, same as always. I get that.

So I was thinking about the OP for a while, and the question I ask is: how many clubs sign “elite” players at all? Assuming there’s some significant amount of elite player trade and the Tigers are one of the few teams unable to get involved.

Let’s define “elite” as Origin representative quality or better. Then let’s look at the Origin sides in Game 1 2019:

Kalyn Ponga – signed by Newy the year he debuted Origin
Corey Oates – still at original club
Michael Morgan – still at original club
Will Chambers – still at original club
Dane Gagai – signed by Newy 3 years before playing Origin, signed by Souths 3 years after playing Origin
Cameron Munster – still at original club
Daly Cherry-Evans – still at original club
Jai Arrow – signed by Titans the year he debuted Origin
Ben Hunt – signed by Dragons the year after his Origin debut (debuted with original club Broncos)
Josh Papalii – still at original club
Felise Kaufusi – still at original club
Matt Gillett – still at original club
Josh McGuire – signed by Cows 4 years after Origin debut (debuted with original club Broncos)
Moses Mbye – signed by Tigers year before Origin debut
Joe Ofahengaue – still at original club
Dylan Napa – signed by Dogs 2 years after Origin debut (debuted with original club Easts)
David Fifita – still at original club

James Tedesco – signed by Easts 2 years after playing Origin (debuted with original club Tigers)
Nick Cotric – still at original club
Latrell Mitchell – still at original club
Josh Morris – signed by Bulldogs same year as Origin debut
Josh Addo-Carr – signed by Storm 1 year before Origin debut
Cody Walker – still at original club
Nathan Cleary – still at original club
David Klemmer – signed w Newy 4 years after Origin debut
Damien Cook – signed by Dogs 4 years before Origin debut, signed by Souths 2 years before debut
Paul Vaughan – signed by Dragons 1 year before Origin debut
Boyd Cordner – still at original club
Tyson Frizell – signed with Dragons 3 years before Origin debut
Jake Trbojevic – still at original club
Jack Wighton – still at original club
Payne Haas – still at original club
Cameron Murray – still at original club
Angus Crichton – signed with Easts year after Origin debut

What is striking in this example is that 19/34 (56%) players are still with their debut club. A further 9 (26%) players signed with their second NRL club before their Origin debut, i.e. were not rep-level players at the time they signed.

That leaves just 6/34 (18%) players who moved to a second club after becoming Origin players.

You look at those in further detail, you have:
Hunt – headhunted for $1M by Dragons, you can fairly say hasn’t worked out
McGuire – signed by Cows after being released by Broncos
Napa – signed by Dogs after being released by Roosters
Tedesco – headhunted for $1M by Roosters
Klemmer – released by Dogs for personal reasons, signed for $850K
Crichton – headhunted by Roosters for close to $1M

So 50% of the players who joined a second club after their Origin debut were released by their incumbent, and the other 50% are all $1M headhunting efforts, mostly by the Roosters.

This data indicates that it’s much more likely to have an Origin player developed from within your club, than sign such a player from another club. I.e. the player either debuted for your side or joined your side before being selected for Origin.

You can argue that some players were signed on the cusp of, or with expectation of, playing Origin, which is fine, but then Moses Mbye and probably Ryan Matterson fit that description, in which case the Tigers DO sign elite-level players.

The other striking feature of these Origin players is that I believe only 3 have had more than 2 clubs – Gagai, Josh Morris and Cook, and Cook was is a technicality because he only played 2 games on debut for the Dragons. Josh Morris has only just completed 1 year with Sharks and only played 2 seasons with Dragons before leaving. Gagai is really the only example in this list of a player headhunted by a 3rd club after being an Origin rep.

Therefore even if you try to sign an Origin-calibre player, the data suggests they are unlikely to move clubs more than once.

Fundamentally, the data suggests that there isn’t a particularly large trade in elite players, and actually most rep-level players are developed from within, or tactically headhunted before they reach Origin level. This would then say that Tigers primary focus should not be signing elite players, but rather developing our own elite players, or astutely buying players who may be elite propositions within a few seasons.

To try and actually sign an existing and established elite player, you typically need $1M or need to be on the lucky end of a secured release, which is the Latrell situation. The secured release is risky, because it says that the incumbent club WANTS to be rid of the player.

And finally, to be headhunting these elite players, the only real clubs to do it successfully in the current crop of rep players are Easts, Souths and, funnily enough, Newcastle.

So is it really the situation that Tigers are consistently unable to secure elite talent, or is it more accurate to say that elite talent infrequently moves around, and when it does, there are a shortlist of clubs that have the success / pulling power to jag these elite players. And then when elite players do move, it will cost you $1M.

@Demps said in Salary Cap Detail 2019 & 2020:

too much time on your hands.
try going outside.

Don’t be a douchebag, if someone takes the trouble to analyse and discuss something that they are interested in. If you are personally disinterested, move on.

My top 5 take-aways from live viewing:

1. Brooks can definitely get the job done with a strong platform. Barely put a foot wrong and had time to develop his plays. I never knew he was a goal kicker, though he has some mad hook (L to R) on his kicks.

2. Luch was a monster, just unstoppable on left edge, offloading outside and in, cutting back across the play, going for an-old fashioned hitup. Manly’s line speed was average and Leilua looked like a Harlem Globetrotter.

3. Doueihi should be the first-choice 5/8th. Madden was alright but he hasn’t that next level of threat that Doueihi has. Even to the point where if he just decides to tuck it under his arm for a carry, he’s tall and hard to bring down. HOWEVER some lingering concerns of the way he slots into the RHS defence.

4. Kelma Tuilagi impressed me greatly, what a unit. Effective in both hit-ups and wide-running. I’d dare say a few of these young blokes like Tuilagi, Simpkins, Stefano are pretty close to (or already have) over-taking the older brigade like Seyfarth, Garner, MCK, Mikaele.

5. Daine Laurie has obvious football class about him, just in the right place all the time, lovely soft hands. He’s one of those footballers that seems to do the basics without breaking a sweat, so his energy can instead go into above-average football. I also love how comfortable he is at the back handling the football.

Bearing all this in mind, Manly were absolutely horrible and let us get on the front foot all match. Maybe we were just too strong and fast, but we had an enormous platform no matter which forwards rotation we used and it was a carve-up whenever we shifted the football. It may have been a very different story if Manly played all their best players, who may have put more starch into the defence and done more with the early attacking football they had. Credit to the boys however, you can only play what is in front of you.

@avocadoontoast said in Deja Vu - Crawley article:

I hate Crawley but most of what he’s written is correct unfortunately.

Half correct if he’s lucky. Incorrect or pure opinion:

• 300K spending money
• Tigers trying to offload all of Mbye, Brooks, Packer, Reynolds
• BJ and Doueihi being bad signings
• Tigers trying to play JAC at fullback
• “Heavy lifting” by Shane Richo and Johnny Lang at Souths - they got Souths to 9th and 10th both of Lang’s years, but that’s exactly what Fatso is criticising Madge for in the article
• tremendous squad including John Sutton - “including” Sutton yes, by way of fact, but tremendous = no
• In “January Harry Grant was coming” - the deal was not done until March 21 and until then it was pure theory with NRL no guarantee to allow the move

Typical DT crap to troll fans, with broad swipes of semi-fact mixed in with rumours, opinions and un-named quotes.

But it’s an easy target to harangue middle-of-road clubs, you could write the same opinion piece about Sharks, Manly, Titans, Broncos, Souths, Dragons, Warriors etc. and it would all be “somewhat” true, based solely on # wins and nothing else.

But you’ll not find Crawley writing anything against Souths on account of his husband Bennett providing them a shield.

Forum: can’t coach speed, Tigers lack speed, speed is power, please buy speed

Tigers: Interested in Sami and will table offer

Forum: yeah he’s fast but what else does he have?

@tbones10 said in Hastings signed for 22/23 *Official.:

@jirskyr said in Hastings signed for 22/23 *Official.:

@tbones10 said in Hastings signed for 22/23 *Official.:

Not arguing against it, just curious what has changed in the two years he has been gone. Two years ago no CEO of any club, ANY CLUB, would touch him with a 10 foot pole as he was considered damaged goods. The fact that we will be his 6th club in eight seasons kind of backs that up.
I’m all for giving a bloke a second chance, but are we now “the last chance saloon” for the NRL’s problem children , BJ, JTJ, Zane and now Hastings. Just curious, since Potter every coach and admin has talked about a positive culture and growing our stars, how does that stack up with buying problems.

Well 2 years ago nobody wanted to sign Ryan Papenhuyzen, 2 years ago Dragons had no idea what to do with Matt Dufty, 2 years ago Broncos signed arguably the most in-demand young coach going around and Souths had to then sign his predecessor. 2 years ago Ryan Matterson was in career-best form at the Tigers and Luke Brooks was reigning Dally M halfback of the year.

So I’d say a lot has changed in two year and it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if he’s not a knob any more.

Hi champ, I for one certainly hope he is not a knob, but there are a lot of warning signs, as I said I was more curious about the situation, has he changed or are we that desperate or both.

Sorry just to be clear I wasn’t bagging you out nor being sarcastic; I realise you were musing and I realised I could think of tonnes of things that have changed in 2 years, so why not add Hastings to it.

@geo said in Hastings signed for 22/23 *Official.:

If you punch DCE in the face you deserve a medal …no a Knighthood…

Welcome Sir Hastings…

It’s “Sir Jackson” isn’t it? You receive the title upon your first name, a la “Sir Elton” or “Sir Ian”?

@tbones10 said in Hastings signed for 22/23 *Official.:

Not arguing against it, just curious what has changed in the two years he has been gone. Two years ago no CEO of any club, ANY CLUB, would touch him with a 10 foot pole as he was considered damaged goods. The fact that we will be his 6th club in eight seasons kind of backs that up.
I’m all for giving a bloke a second chance, but are we now “the last chance saloon” for the NRL’s problem children , BJ, JTJ, Zane and now Hastings. Just curious, since Potter every coach and admin has talked about a positive culture and growing our stars, how does that stack up with buying problems.

Well 2 years ago nobody wanted to sign Ryan Papenhuyzen, 2 years ago Dragons had no idea what to do with Matt Dufty, 2 years ago Broncos signed arguably the most in-demand young coach going around and Souths had to then sign his predecessor. 2 years ago Ryan Matterson was in career-best form at the Tigers and Luke Brooks was reigning Dally M halfback of the year.

So I’d say a lot has changed in two year and it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if he’s not a knob any more.

The thing is it doesn’t matter if Latrell gets 3 weeks or 4 weeks or 1 week, it doesn’t help Tigers - we don’t play Souths again until Round 16. There is no compensation for Tigers.

@earl said in South Sydney's Latrell Mitchell in hot water:

I would never have though thug was considered racist. In my opinion that is over the top. In stating that maybe grub is a better word.

No no sorry, derogatory use of “grub” is anti-larval.

@sco77y said in Random thoughts post game:

@needaname said in Random thoughts post game:

@pawsandclaws1 said in Random thoughts post game:

We were leading and should have won.

Nofoaluma, a player of his experience, having the ball stripped. Huge moment.

When was that? Was that the in air double knock back that feel under Graham?

Graham knocked that on imo. The ball didn’t look controlled - used the ground to support it before he got a grip on it properly. Just another incident in probably the most shambolic game I’ve ever seen.

Exactly what I said. He pushes the ball along the ground with his hand, without ever having control of it first. You can’t do that, you can’t take possession by rolling a football, it has to be a single clean pickup.

@yossarian said in Random thoughts post game:

@jirskyr said in Random thoughts post game:

@yossarian said in Random thoughts post game:

@hobbo1 said in Random thoughts post game:

@pawsandclaws1 said in Random thoughts post game:

We were leading and should have won.

Nofoaluma, a player of his experience, having the ball stripped. Huge moment.

Talau and Doueihi allowing Latrine out of the in-goal , Huge moment

To be fair Talau is a whisker from slapping that ball back for a try.

Does that whisker happen to be from King Kong? He was nowhere near making any sort of positive contact to the football, though I understand his intent, it’s the 1% play.

Have you looked at the footage post game? The ball is bouncing and not in Mitchell’s possession when Talau arrives. It’s a split second thing. The ball was bouncing for a while. I think 1% is a harsh assessment.

Yeah I looked at it and you aren’t quite correct - Latrell is already taking possession when Talau arrives, see the picture below. Talau comes from a blind position, he can’t clearly see the ball and Latrell is already shepherding it with his body. Latrell is no fool, he’s got the ball covered, he’s just waiting to see if it rolls dead. Latrell also backs himself to take the likely body shot, because he’s so strong.

What’s worse is Talau makes a play from the sideline direction, which I can understand because he’s trying to bat infield, but it opens up the space for Latrell to pivot in-field and down the sideline. Talau doesn’t even make body contact. Talau doesn’t get stepped. He gives away the ability to make a tackle by playing for the ball.

Doueihi is also bearing down on his own kick, but he doesn’t cover the space where Talau was, he is a few metres in-field. This makes sense, he’s preparing for Latrell to try and run in-field because Talau has him covered down the sideline.

Now whilst I can understand exactly what Talau is doing, it’s the riskier play at that moment, and in that moment we were in front and didn’t need more points. It was a perfect kick from Doueihi. It really should have been a repeat set. Latrell is 99% to be tackled or pushed into touch. Instead, he reads what Talau is doing, he has a natural ability to find space, and he pivots back down the sideline from where Talau came, back into Talau’s gap, and half-way down the field.

Rest is history.

@geo said in Article from Paul Kent:

Kent has written this article before…nothing changed…nothing will change…you just have to adapt …overcome adversity…it makes winning sweeter…

Ultimately I agree. You have to overcome the unconscious bias or issues. The exact same concept applies to home grounds - it shouldn’t matter where you play football or what the fans yell out, but it does matter, and you have to be able to overcome it.

This topic often makes me think of the Roosters from 2000-2010; my ex-girlfriend supported Roosters. From 2000-2004 Roosters finished 2nd or better 3 times (1 Minor Prem), made 4 Grand Finals. Whilst that’s a great record of finals matches, it’s also very tough to swallow 1/4 Grand Final wins, despite even one being sweet by itself. Including 2010, Roosters made 5 GFs in 11 seasons and “only” won 1. Obviously Tigers were 1/1 during that same period.

Come around to 2013-2019, Roosters won the Minor Premiership 4x and finished 2nd twice in 7 seasons. It’s still underachieving a little that they were MP 4 times and only made the GF on two of those occasions, but the overall campaign was 7 seasons 3/3 Grand Finals. I hate the Roosters but they continually put themselves in the position to win those premierships, even though they actually had a lot of heartache on the journey and lost a lot of key moments, particularly 2014-2015 when they tumbled out of the finals twice (2W 4L).

The problem for Tigers is we play well sometimes, and about half of those times we don’t get the choccies. That’s normal. But when you play badly the rest of the time, the sum total is about 40% win rate, which will never take you to the finals.

If we play as well as the Souths game every week, we’ll win about half of the matches (or better), the refs will start to unconsciously favour us in calls and we develop a greater momentum. Once you hit that place, you then control whether or not you play regular finals football, not reliant on the bounce of the ball or video ref decision.

@everything-wt said in Signing Suggestions & Rumours:

Broke the Hastings news on here 2 months ago and no one believed me

You are my hero.

@tiger5150 said in Signing Suggestions & Rumours:

@jc99 said in Signing Suggestions & Rumours:

@tiger5150 said in Signing Suggestions & Rumours:

All this talk about Hastings is just the latest in a LONG line of potential signings that “have changed” or “it will be different this time”.

How many times are we going to go down this well worn path to disappointment?

The best indicator for future performance, is past performance.

Past performance was a man of steel season in England… can do a whole lot worse than that. He’s not a bad player he’s no world beater but he’s good.

Adrian Vowles, Rangi Chase…

Plenty of bog average players have won the MoS.

Also a lot of good ones. Doesn’t mean there’s no value in it.