@happy_tiger said in Brooks: What exactly has gone wrong?:
@TrueTiger said in Brooks: What exactly has gone wrong?:
@Papacito said in Brooks: What exactly has gone wrong?:
I’m constantly amazed that after seven seasons and 145 games, people are still waiting for (nearly) 26 year old Brooks to come of age and/or step out from the shadow of Farah, Marshall or whoever.
This year he was thoroughly outplayed by a rookie hooker and a senior citizen five-eighth.
He’s an average halfback that can’t deliver us a top 8 finish.
I have to have a slightly different opinion than yours Papacito,only because I look at the way he had to chop and change his playing style to suit at least 4 different coaches with different structures and gameplans…you also have to understand Luke is timid by nature and with Benji gone he may become a lot more aggressive as 2021 progresses
What about a Cooper Cronk …he has a different club coach , different All Stars coach , different State coach and different Australian coach all in one season …all different styles …maybe 2 different in a week
Everyone STOP with the excuses for Brooks , Marshall , our backline , our forward pack , our defence and the results they achieve every week , and every season
They aren’t good enough , they aren’t acceptable , and shouldn’t be acceptable by anyone involved with this club whether it is a fan ,coach ,CEO ,Football manager , medico ,assistant coach or recruitment or retention guru
Reality is tough …but you need to deal with it
What til Rd 25 next year …when things are even worse
Great now that you’ve said the team sux , what’s the answer then ? What’s the point in constantly whinging about it , to have conversations with people who also whinge about it , or arguements with people who call you a whinger , to then , do it all over again the next week ,or day?
Honestly what’s the point ?Do you find it therapeutic ? Or even cathartic? Or does it just depress you , like honestly the way it seems to me ? I love the debate , hearing people’s opinions and disagreements. Like guys who say he sux , and then say get X player ! I usually disagree but whatever . I just don’t understand being negative for negatives sake
@851 said in Brooks: What exactly has gone wrong?:
@TrueTiger said in Brooks: What exactly has gone wrong?:
Im going to say the last thing about Brooks and its my opinion only…
Next year Benji will be gone,Luke can come out of his shell and start dominating this team as he should have been,he will hopefully have a stronger pack with Tamou in it and leading the way forward,if not then why the hell did we sign him…
I have faith that Madge will be able to put key players in their respective positions on a weekly basis,this years chopping and changing was out of necessity more than anything because of injuries and no CC to be played…we should have a much clearer view 5/6 weeks into the season on how we are travelling…I have been a severe critic of Brooks over the years ,but having to play alonside the club legend must have been difficult at times,Luke is still young enough to produce some very good football,he has to take CONTROL and show his capabilities so we can have faith in him to make the right choices to lead the team and close out games…
Whilst I agree Benji was a huge part of why Brooks has regressed, but Brooks should own that, he has played near 150 games now, he should be able to play with any half selected.
In saying that, I do expect Brooks to be a far better player now that Benji is gone, and we might actually see a whole new player, the one we all hoped to see a while back.
It’s pretty hard though , when you’re set up down the left , and Benji overcalls down the right for the benji showtime reel, that doesn’t pay off . To me it looks like brooks is up for the attrition . It’s when we truely adopt that style like ala 2018 that we will see his best . When it’s coming back from 20 nil , no look pass , flick pass , chip over the top stuff , sure it’s exciting , but that’s not his go. The win over manly was all him to be honest. You could see him calling the plays and moving the team where it needed to go , and he gave early ball to blokes like BJ.
To me that’s who he is . He’s not Thurston or Johns , he’s bloody Matt Orford, or Brett Kimmorley who can tackle.
@mike said in Brooks: What exactly has gone wrong?:
@pawsandclaws1 said in Brooks: What exactly has gone wrong?:
@the_third said in Brooks: What exactly has gone wrong?:
Brooks: What exactly has gone wrong?
145 games and no finals. That’s exactly what’s gone wrong.
The real questions is when did it ever go right?
He’s been loyal to a club with no prospect of playing finals football following the departure of the ‘big three’. Brooks is a fine player and loyal WT. If any of you have been 'in the trenches" he would be one of the first 'd want. Let’s support him and understand that rebuilding our team is dependent upon a firing Brooks.
Understand that rebuilding the team is dependent on the club firing Brooks.
Sorry , I don’t agree . He had a down year , in the weirdest year in our lifetime . Many players across many sports are experiencing this. He won the dally m HOY, 2 years ago , our player of the year last year , and you want to punt him after really , half a bad year , as he has started to find his feet the last 4 rounds .
Seems to me , guys with an agenda have been eating humble pie for the last 2 years and now , they’re coming out the woodworks and are just laying the boot in .
It’s pretty on the nose IMO.
@jirskyr said in Tigers should be heavyweights:
Ramy Haidar is a flog, wannabe journalist. In reality he’s a podcast / blogging enthusiast, as much as a punter as anyone on this forum. I appreciate his vigour for rugby league commentary, but I mostly find his arguments to be wafer-thin, and for someone who enthuses analysis, I find his conclusions to be extremely porous.
Case in point this article, his arguments are:
(a) Tigers should be a competition heavyweight because 1 million Sydney-siders reside in the junior catchments over 10 councils; and
(b) Tigers should be heavyweight because they have big social media presence
Tigers should be heavyweight because they draw strong AWAY crowds, JUST LIKE ST GEORGE DOES
(d) 1900 caps is your ideal target for total team experience, based on average of premiers, and Tigers are over-experienced the past 3 years.
Now (a) is a silly population-based argument that says population size should be an indicator of success. Under that assumption, China are the world’s best footballing nation and Melbourne Storm are a dominant side because they represent 5 million Melburnians.
Ramy doesn’t even define whether he’s counting the population strictly inside the junior district boundary, or the population of every council that touches the junior district area. In other words, is he including 100% of the Hills District LGA if 5% of the Hills District LGA falls inside a Tigers juniors boundary? I can’t see how Ramy could possibly calculate the population strictly within a football junior boundary; I don’t believe such data exists.
(b) Only tells you that people follow Tigers media. That may be an indicator of the strong engagement by the Tigers media department, or it may simply be a brand people like to follow. Ramy does not provide an argument as to how or why that should lead to on-field success. Social media following, for example, may or may not translate into actual crowd figures or funding or membership, but he doesn’t present that argument.
In fact Ramy presents the counter-argument, that Tigers have 44% more social media followers than the NM Kangaroos. Well North Melbourne have 38K members and Tigers have 18K, so it shows clearly that social media really has no bearing whatsoever on people putting their money down, unless Ramy is suggesting Tigers should have 55K members (44% more than North Melbourne), which would be 25K more members than any other NRL club.
What Ramy actually has not taken into account is Tigers typically pull a massive crowd for Easter Monday against Eels, regardless of who is actually the “home” side, and it has a very large bearing on the annual average crowd for Tigers.
St George apparently have the best away crowds and clearly that means diddly-squat for their output since 2010.
Argument (d) has to be possibly the dumbest one he provides. That you should aim for less experience because the average experience of the premiers is X. Ramy assumes that high # caps equates to retaining “big reputations” and losing juniors. But there is no reason why that should hold, because you may in fact retain your juniors and buy big reputations, because there is no limit on “experience” purchasing and there’s no specific necessity to play inexperienced players.
You might assume that experience roughly equates to cost or age, so the roster should be rounded out with some young guys and some old guys, but it totally fails to take into account the more journeymen-type players who might have experience but be quite cheap (e.g. your Jeremy Latimore-type footballers, or even a 1-clubber like Aubusson). Or you may in fact be very good at retaining your juniors and they now have decent experience, such that you don’t need to keep blooding young kids because your roster is so stable.
And I can quickly kill the (d) argument by one example - Melbourne Storm 2020. Their 2020 roster is 2,279 caps, which is about what Tigers carried in 2018 - and something Ramy specifically criticised. And this has a very clear explanation: because Cam Smith has 429. Take Smith out and the Storm are much closer to the “sweet spot”, but obviously that would be the absolutely stupidest thing to do to the Storm in 2020.
In fact I have a better one - Roosters 2020 roster is carrying 3,309 caps right at this moment. This is because they already have highly experienced and stable stalwarts - Aubusson, JWH, Jake Friend all clocking > 200 games, then a raft of 100+ proven players like Tedesco, Tupou and Keary. Then of course they astutely signed the Morris twins who have about 550 games just between them, and by Ramy’s argument you don’t want to sign the Morris boys because they are too experienced and you are paying for “their reputation” at the expense of rookies.
Newsflash Ramy, you don’t need to worry about rookies if your third premiership tilt includes two of the smartest and most consistent club backline footballers going around. Especially if you brought in one of those footballers because of injury to your juniors, rather than the juniors being let go.
Roosters, the repeat and possibly tri-peat premiers, according to Ramy, have TOO MUCH EXPERIENCE. Not just by a small margin either, by 1400 games above average for a premiership side, including (I assume), their own premiership sides. Just such a dumb argument, I wanted to pick it to shreds.
Wests Tigers should be a force fundamentally because the idea is that every team is supposed to have a turn at being a top-level side eventually. Your turn is supposed to come around, but for Tigers it just hasn’t. But there’s no other specific reason why Tigers should out-perform Penrith or Parramatta or Bulldogs just based on geography and social media.
Ben Darwin did an interview with the Rufby league digest boys , and basically said the biggest indicator for success is time/ continuity ie. time together . So until we can solidify a building block for the team , and then build around that nucleus , we are going to be unsuccessful
@avocadoontoast said in Tigers should be heavyweights:
@Russell said in Tigers should be heavyweights:
@avocadoontoast said in Tigers should be heavyweights:
@Russell said in Tigers should be heavyweights:
@Jay said in Tigers should be heavyweights:
@Russell said in Tigers should be heavyweights:
@Jay said in Tigers should be heavyweights:
Every time I watch a game with someone who doesn’t know NRL they say ‘wow that guy is amazing!’ I say, he used to play for Tigers. They say ‘Oh really? wow’ We haven’t managed to retain one superstar we developed. Fire him lol. We are debating how Benji has affected the team but man, he isn’t the CEO. CEO is a dud. A milhouse. We got the dud.
The DUD at the moment is one Benji Marshall not Pascoe.
JP is doinghis job - maybe Benji should do his!
He is. He was contracted to play under JP and he’s playing. He has one game left.
Mate - he could kill 15 people and you would defend him.
There is a recruitment team that sign and let players go. It is not the job of the CEO.
Are you saying managing the salary cap is not one of his responsibilities?
I’m saying he was fined for the Farah error.
How has he gone over the salary cap? - he has managed it correctly has he not?Is he responsible for salary cap management, Ie ensuring we are compliant as well ensuring we don’t overpay players etc?
I’ve argued with you in the past on this . And some other f your points are correct . I think he has failed in his cap management , but not because I believe he’s a moron, but rather a trusting fool . He trusted Cleary and that bloke from Canterbury ,(which is why we got all those Canterbury players), and ultimately he is looking like a fool in the process. Now he is trusting Madge , who seems to actually care about our future , and he’s overseen Jennings (id say Madge showed a kid he recruited to Souths loyalty=dud), Blore Doueihi, Stefano , Musgrove , kepaoa , and the leiluas. One is a weapon the other needs a wake up call as he should be a weapon . Much better recruitment strategy .
@JD-Tiger said in Wests Tigers Team v Parramatta:
It’s going to be a huge ask on our forwards. Prop rotation of Mus and Mika followed by Twal and Huth will make it tough. Who will make the metres?
Musgrove made over 100m in like 15 mins last week
Webster is wrong based on logic.the only wayJAC goes back to the storm and asked for a release to the tigers Is if a contact has been agreed to , if not yet signed . We know this because the storm management were talking about how the compensation we want to give isn’t good enough all last week .
The Storm CEO didn’t mention tigers directly, he said JAC’s ‘preferred club’. The article then went on to mention souths first, then tigers.
So is his preferred club WT or Souths?
No Bellamy did in his press conference. After the ceo talked in riddles during the week .
Webster is wrong based on logic.the only wayJAC goes back to the storm and asked for a release to the tigers Is if a contact has been agreed to , if not yet signed . We know this because the storm management were talking about how the compensation we want to give isn’t good enough all last week .
You’re kidding right ? They are entitled to thier money . I hope they make the Dumb decision and leave for my own selfish reasons , but no way would I give up 800k next year , if especially in packers case , that’s probably my last huge pay day , before I have to become a miner in Kunnanurra . He owes us nothing . The management at the time , including Cleary and that dingus from Canterbury , have a lot to answer for
@Bob said in Departing players:
@momo_amp_medo said in Departing players:
I know many will disagree but for me Matt Moylan is a better fullback than anything we have at the moment.
From reports Cronulla is willing to offload with +50% freight included. If we could organise a Mbye trade we could offer 2 year deal. I would take a risk …
Anyway my thoughts for next year and beyondMoses Mbye (Matt Moylan who covers quite a few backline positions would be my pick if we can get a trade deal)
Josh Aldo Carr
Adam Doueihi
Joseph Leilua (Kotoni Stagg should be the player we go after as 2021 replacement)
DescriptionDescription(Kotoni Stagg should be replacement at end of next season)
David Nofoaluma
Josh Reynolds (Matt Burton if we can offload Reynolds OR not … we should go all out for this guy … future is as a ball playing lock forward)
Luke Brooks
James Tamou
Jason Liddle (Harry Grant If Smith plays on for one more year and retireS when Bellamy leaves)
Zane Musgrove
Sam McIntyre
Luciano Leilua
Shawn BloreJosh Aloiai
Russell Packer (Jack Hetherington (if we can offload Packer)
Thomas Mikaele
Alex Twal
Stefano Utoikamanu
Jake Simpkin
Luke Garner (Bunty Afoa from Warriors would be good replacement if Garner leaves)
Michael Chee Kam (Tukimihia Simpkins from Cowboys is an upgrade if we can move MCK)
Tommy Talau
Jock Madden
Asu Kepaoa
Billy Walters
Paul Momirovski
Zac Cini
Kane Bradley
William Kei
One available spot ???Development Contract
Reece HoffmanMoylan said no last year when sharpies tried to offload him to the tigers. I doubt the sentiment has changed
I don’t think he said no , he wanted a kings ransom and we laughed at him. Looks like we wanted him at a decent coin