Ivan Cleary - THREAD..

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izotope
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Re: Ivan Cleary - THREAD..

Post by izotope » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 11:21 am

Its pretty much game, set, match Gould unfortunately.
He may be a slug but he's no dummy.

If Ivan signs for 2021 he knows we will have to replace Ivan so that puts the Panthers in the box seat to wait it out.
We will have to get a new coach ASAP if we want any future signings.
Gould will just wait it and out and keep beating up media stories.

Can't see us getting much compo other then a few "small sundae" tickets.
tigers!


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Post by old man tiger » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 11:28 am

TigerTiger wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 8:59 am
rex2ce wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 8:13 am
The club could say to Ivan, you will continue to be known as head coach for the remainder of your contract, but we only want you to turn up on game day and do the presso, meantime get someone else in and call him assistant NRL coach, expensive, but not giving in to Gould
This ^

No-one said we can only have one head coach. There's only meant to be one captain, hey Ivan? If Ivan signs with Penrith for 2021, he can stay as head coach, and he can go and sit in the corner and play with all his friends whilst we get down to business.

Expensive? Yes, sure. But do you really think a man of such high integrity as Ivan claims to be would dig his heels in after unloading all this on us? His reputation would take an even bigger hit.
I see a market for us. 5 head coaches and 5 captains. Maybe we can have 5 teams on the field to help improve the win %?

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Post by Pawsandclaws » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 11:39 am

supercoach wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 10:14 am
Every possible thing on Cleary gate has been discussed fifty times. Basically there are two options.
1 we keep him for two years or more
2 we do a deal with Gus the fat toad

Iam one of the few that have no problems with him staying just the two years and finishing the re build. On the other hand I am okay with starting it fresh with a new guy.

The one thing that must happen.....This has to be resolved very very quickly so the place can return to normal business. One last thing...if Cleary stays, both him and the club have to do plenty of repair work and not a 30 second prepared statement
His tenure at the club it seems is now dependent upon him agreeing to an extension. Things have moved further now with at least one of our high profile players advising that it would be difficult to play under him if he was intending to go to the Panthers. I applaud the player for having the integrity to tell it as it is and avoid the PC talk wo are subjected to in the NRL.

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Post by weststigers » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 11:59 am

izotope wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 11:21 am
Its pretty much game, set, match Gould unfortunately.
He may be a slug but he's no dummy.

If Ivan signs for 2021 he knows we will have to replace Ivan so that puts the Panthers in the box seat to wait it out.
We will have to get a new coach ASAP if we want any future signings.
Gould will just wait it and out and keep beating up media stories.

Can't see us getting much compo other then a few "small sundae" tickets.
Yeah it's hard to watch, but we are in a corner.

If we're stubborn and make Cleary stay the situation will be untenable over time.

Gould knows if he waits long enough, we will release Cleary and there won't be any compensation to speak of.

We don't need this dragging into next pre-season. I hope we get some news soon.

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Post by Abraham » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 12:10 pm

I actually think that its a really dumb move by the club to make this sort of ultimatum to Cleary - either sign an extension of we will give you the boot.

What if he signs the extension, and we run dead last for the next two years? Do we just say oh well, it didnt work out, here's a suitcase full of cash to walk away from the contract extension?

Coaching extensions should be earned by on-field success... not knee jerk reactions to approaches by rivals.

I get they want this resolved, but there are other ways to go about this.


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Post by TonyTiger » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 12:40 pm

gallagher wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 11:09 am
If he stays on and has agreed to terms with the panthers for 2021 then we need a coaching director to handle all player retention/recruitment above Cleary. Someone who could also fill in on a temporary role if Cleary wants out mid season.

I've always thought Sheens would have been great at this role, hes the smartest bloke ever to be involved with the club, including the current mob.
Sheens left in controversial circumstances, having to fight for a payout - very capable but we don’t need to unearth skeletons in our closet, managing the current sook is likely to take a toll.

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Post by andrew 474 » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 12:42 pm

Ivan got us off the bottom , playing some good Footy , defending well , extension at this point may not be perfect but it would if he signs it be here for 2 extra years , young CLEARY will sign with Panthers no doubt about it , but if there is a clause from 2021 and the Panthers start to go backwards he may just jump ship and come on board , it would be a win win for us , Young CLEARY said he has un finished work at Penrith plus his mates are there , good for him but if they go backwards he will come over and join his father here because we are going forward next year again
Just my thoughts

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Post by innsaneink » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 12:47 pm

momo&medo wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 9:53 am
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 6:44 am
Nucky Thompson wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 6:16 am
TIGERPOWER wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:55 pm


So hold on, no worker can ever be demoted??? It’s an option for every employee to be demoted by his employer. The only thing he is entitled to is his wages. Oh dear tweedle dee, you always jump the gun to show your smartness and it always seems to backfire on you lol lol .
Robbie farah comes to mind.


Big Difference
An NRL contract states that you will play for the club.
In most , if not all , they do Not State that you can’t be dropped.

A first grade coach is employed to coach First Grade, very clearly.
There’s not any similarities between RF’s situation and Ivan’s
And Ink is right
It may be you TP,that jumped the gun :rant
Yep, know a bit about employment contracts and Ink is right.
Thank you.... Yes he should just let it go

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Post by 851 » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 12:47 pm

Pawsandclaws wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 11:39 am
supercoach wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 10:14 am
Every possible thing on Cleary gate has been discussed fifty times. Basically there are two options.
1 we keep him for two years or more
2 we do a deal with Gus the fat toad

Iam one of the few that have no problems with him staying just the two years and finishing the re build. On the other hand I am okay with starting it fresh with a new guy.

The one thing that must happen.....This has to be resolved very very quickly so the place can return to normal business. One last thing...if Cleary stays, both him and the club have to do plenty of repair work and not a 30 second prepared statement
His tenure at the club it seems is now dependent upon him agreeing to an extension. Things have moved further now with at least one of our high profile players advising that it would be difficult to play under him if he was intending to go to the Panthers. I applaud the player for having the integrity to tell it as it is and avoid the PC talk wo are subjected to in the NRL.
Spot on, and a big thank you to Brooks for saying if Ivan is going than it will be hard to work under him.
If Brooks has said it, you can bet there are plenty more thinking it.
And to those saying it is like a player who has signed for another team, no it’s not. We are talking two full seasons away, no players sign that far ahead to change teams.
Also comparing it to other coaches is also flawed, sure other coaches are only signed two years ahead, but they do not have a club to move to in two years.
Also how can you be doing your job properly when you are preparing two teams future, you can’t do it properly.
Cleary either commits or is moved on, we can’t play second fiddle to Penrith with future planning. And we would, Cleary is going to more eager to sort Penrith future knowing he is going there rather than ours, it is a really simple decision in my eyes
Go hard or go home

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Post by innsaneink » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 12:51 pm

Abraham wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 12:10 pm
I actually think that its a really dumb move by the club to make this sort of ultimatum to Cleary - either sign an extension of we will give you the boot.

What if he signs the extension, and we run dead last for the next two years? Do we just say oh well, it didnt work out, here's a suitcase full of cash to walk away from the contract extension?

Coaching extensions should be earned by on-field success... not knee jerk reactions to approaches by rivals.

I get they want this resolved, but there are other ways to go about this.
Agree...

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Post by TonyTiger » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 12:54 pm

Ivan did a good job in changing the culture at our club but where are all the scrum base moves & blind side raids that had the commentators talking when Mick Potter was coach - we were exciting and enterprising back then with our short side raids, run arounds, 40/20’s and all round deceptive plays. We need to find another Pat Richards.
- We are grinders now, struggling to come up with anything in attack.

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Post by gallagher » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 12:54 pm

Abraham wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 12:10 pm
I actually think that its a really dumb move by the club to make this sort of ultimatum to Cleary - either sign an extension of we will give you the boot.

What if he signs the extension, and we run dead last for the next two years? Do we just say oh well, it didnt work out, here's a suitcase full of cash to walk away from the contract extension?

Coaching extensions should be earned by on-field success... not knee jerk reactions to approaches by rivals.

I get they want this resolved, but there are other ways to go about this.
Agreed, a contract extension is a ridiculous notion. It should be results driven not fear driven.

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Post by innsaneink » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 12:59 pm

Brooks' words:
Could be... Not would be.
But of a difference

“It’s a tough one. I think it could be difficult if we knew that a coach is already going two years down the track,” Brooks told NRL Tonight.

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Post by Tigers17 » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 1:00 pm

Abraham wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 12:10 pm
I actually think that its a really dumb move by the club to make this sort of ultimatum to Cleary - either sign an extension of we will give you the boot.

What if he signs the extension, and we run dead last for the next two years? Do we just say oh well, it didnt work out, here's a suitcase full of cash to walk away from the contract extension?

Coaching extensions should be earned by on-field success... not knee jerk reactions to approaches by rivals.

I get they want this resolved, but there are other ways to go about this.
This is long overdue, but THANK YOU Abraham for your intelligent, thoughtful contributions on all subjects on this forum.

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Post by Telltails » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 1:03 pm

If he is as decent a fellow as he is made out to be and he" love the Wts" as he has stated he will ask for a release- and we should grant it.
A rebuild coach has to be in it for the long haul to keep Ivan on to spite Gould wont effect Penrith, but is more likely to further prolong our progress, if in fact it is stalling our ability to recruit.
Hopefully both clubs are nutting out a solution and it is resolved quickly so we can counteract the damage already done and focus becomes back on the club instead of the over inflated value of the Clearys.

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Post by Pawsandclaws » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 1:33 pm

innsaneink wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 12:59 pm
Brooks' words:
Could be... Not would be.
But of a difference

“It’s a tough one. I think it could be difficult if we knew that a coach is already going two years down the track,” Brooks told NRL Tonight.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... nt=control

WESTS Tigers halfback Luke Brooks has admitted it would be “difficult” to play under Ivan Cleary should the coach take up an offer from the Panthers from 2021
Penrith are reportedly in deep negotiations with Cleary to return to the foot of the mountains.

Cleary is currently contracted at the Tigers until the end of 2020 but should he sign, his position at the club could become untenable.

Brooks said having a coach with one eye on another club could be a distraction.
“It’s a tough one. I think it could be difficult if we knew that a coach is already going two years down the track,” Brooks told NRL Tonight.

“We don’t know if it’s going to happen but if it does we will worry about it when it gets to that point.”
Cleary has been strongly linked to the Panthers ever since club boss Phil Gould sensationally sacked coach Anthony Griffin midway through the season.

Assistant coach Cameron Ciraldo was placed in charge for the remainder of 2018 and led the side to the second week of the finals where they eventually lost to the Sharks.


Ciraldo had reportedly been rewarded with an offer to coach the Panthers for at least 2019.

It is understood should the Tigers allows Cleary to leave early, the club would seek compensation from the Panthers in the form of cash and players.
Former NSW Blues coach Laurie Daley said Cleary could not continue at the Tigers, should he sign with the Panthers from 2021.

And Daley had a clear replacement in mind.

“I’d get on the front foot if I was the Wests Tigers and I’d be making a phone call to Ivan and saying, ‘Mate what are you doing?’,” he said on The Big Sports Breakfast on Thursday.

“And if he says he’s going to honour his contract but he wants to go to Penrith in 2021 I’d be making a phone call to Michael Maguire trying to get a deal done and trying to get some compensation off Penrith to release Ivan to go straight away.

“Michael Maguire would be my number one target if I was CEO of the Tigers.”

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 1:35 pm

TIGERPOWER wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 6:49 am
GNR4LIFE wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 6:40 am
TIGERPOWER wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 6:35 am
GNR4LIFE wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 6:32 am

You can not compare players to coaches. Players get dropped, one of the hazards of their job. Name a coach whose ever been demoted to coach reserve grade?
Name a coach who signed to coach a rival team while still having 2 years left on his contract?

The point is any employee can be demoted.
So no coach has ever been demoted to reserve grade then? Wonder why that is

Hmmm 🤔
Okay tweedle dee. Coaches don’t get demoted because they get fired and are no longer wanted. We are so privileged to have a coach who doesn’t want us not the other way round. It was brought up as an idea to force penriths hand so they don’t get Ivan the terrible for free and we don’t have someone here whose long term future is somewhere else. If your too stupid to understand that then run along and keep count of peoples posts on things qyou don’t agree with or pull out your JT fan book and reminisce.
TP,
there may be any number of coaches who have signed with a club , to go there ,well and truly before his existing contracted finished, who would know, unless he made it public,
Don’t you get it, there’s nothing wrong with doing that , regardless if anyone likes it or not,

He can’t be sacked for that if he continues to Coach at the current club , and does so according to his contract,
He can be Paid out and released, but that is a whole different kettle of fish.

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Post by mike » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 1:45 pm

Abraham wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 12:10 pm
I actually think that its a really dumb move by the club to make this sort of ultimatum to Cleary - either sign an extension of we will give you the boot.

What if he signs the extension, and we run dead last for the next two years? Do we just say oh well, it didnt work out, here's a suitcase full of cash to walk away from the contract extension?

Coaching extensions should be earned by on-field success... not knee jerk reactions to approaches by rivals.

I get they want this resolved, but there are other ways to go about this.
Where is the ‘like’ button when you need it. :master:
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