For all the people moaning about signings

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2041
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Re: For all the people moaning about signings

Post by 2041 » Fri 12 Oct, 2018 7:43 pm

Ok mate I'll leave it there, we've both got a view hey? Nothing would make me happier than the Tigers proving you wrong with a big signing in January, which I hope shows that we're both fundamentally on the same side. Have a good weekend.


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Post by Black & Gold 69 » Fri 12 Oct, 2018 8:03 pm

People let's get real are the tigers going to go better in 2019?????????????
Well lets look under the microscope and analyse the prognosis
A SLOW DEATH again!

1. We don't have a coach that will draw much needed talent
2. No talent that will give line breaks
3. Aged five-eight " Benji " and Reynolds Broke down replacement
4. Macqueen who commands big salary and plays second grade football
5. Back-line very slow compared to Melbourne, Eastern Suburbs, Penrith, Cronulla, and South Sydney

If we lose Ivan Management need to show the NRL Community West Tigers are not be messed with by having Cus Gould and the Penrith Mafia pay us compensation.

Yours truly,
The supporter still waiting for Strong management and a superior West Tigers Club our future youngster can be proud of for years to come.
Instead of wondering if we will exist another season? :lol:

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Harvey
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Post by Harvey » Fri 12 Oct, 2018 8:08 pm

2041 wrote:
Fri 12 Oct, 2018 5:30 pm
gallagher wrote:
Fri 12 Oct, 2018 5:03 pm
2041 wrote:
Fri 12 Oct, 2018 4:14 pm
gallagher wrote:
Fri 12 Oct, 2018 2:56 pm

Yeah. I said i want origin class players, not back up players. Never said I want origin class back up halves ir hookers.
But your not after a discussion, just an argument.
I'm really not, I'm just trying to explain why what you're saying doesn't make any sense.

You want origin class players. Of course you do. So do I.

You don't want backups. Well, maybe. This is where you stop making sense. Every team has backups. No team in the comp has origin class players ready to come in and play when the starters get injured unless they happen to have a kid coming through who just happens to be ready to step up at an opportune moment.

You can make two legitimate arguments about the Tigers spine recruitment:
1) Marshall and Farah aren't even good enough to be the backup players. That's a legit view, but you've then got to compare them to what else might be available, at a price that makes sense, to play reserve grade or wait for an injury. So: McIlwrick, Tyrone Roberts, Littlejohn etc etc And really, the difference between any of those is next to nothing. Sub in your favourite, see how much better we get.
2) Any or all of Liddle, Brooks or Reynolds shouldn't be first choice and we should be looking to spend big on a new, "origin class" spine player. This would be a totally different argument and it's nothing to do with Farah or Marshall, because neither of those have been signed to take starting slots.

Personally, I wish we hadn't signed Reynolds and I'd be astonished if he's ever properly fit again. But we can't have a do over on that and go out and spend another $750,000 on a five-eighth (not to mention there hasn't been a good one available). The club has to hope he's fit because they can't spend the money again, and either way the next half in line has to be cheap.
Again. Im not saying we should be looking at origin class fullback or halves. Im happy with those positions. Mbye and Thomson cover fullback and Brooks, Reynolds, Gamble and Mybe cover the halves. I see no need for Marshall or any other back up half in our squad at all. its a wasted spot. Id rathet have given that spot to someone like Morris for probably the same sort of money.
Seggy or Luke would have been better options to Farah.
That doesn't make any sense at all?
It's closer to being a logical point, yes. But there are still some pretty massive problems. With Reynolds' injuries over the last couple of years we clearly need some halves cover. Again, we're paying for the bad signing of Reynolds but we really can't go into the season either relying on Reynolds' fitness or assuming the only cover we'll need for him is our starting fullback (who has a pretty horrible track record in the halves) or a young guy who really hasn't looked any good at all so far. TBH I'm relatively surprised that Gamble has been given another year, though equally I'd be absolutely delighted if he jumps ahead of Marshall in the pecking order at some stage.

As for Farah, there is absolutely no way, zero, nada that Isaac Luke isn't on significantly more money. Luke was starting hooker for a finals team this season and probably had his best form since 2014. He'll be on $400k, minimum. Segeyaro is a fair call, and I assume the idea is that he's probably best nowadays in a complementary role, doing 25-40 minutes rather than being a first-choice hooker. That would be great if he can be used off the bench but, again, the Tigers' first choice hooker is yet to prove he can stand up to the physical rigour of week-in, week-out first grade. I'm guessing the call is that Farah is more able to play 60 minutes for eight weeks straight if necessary.

There's also the suggestion that we might have got Segeyaro were it not for the Cleary saga. IDK if that's true or not, but if it is you sort of have to give the club a pass - not much they could do about Cleary dumping them in the doo doo.

This is sort of my point, though. The difference between Farah and Segeyaro as second choice hooker isn't going to make us a premiership contender. The club is fighting back from years and years of poor cap management, poor recruitment and poor retention. Purely on the basis of the last few months, the recruitment side has pretty clearly improved: they've signed among the best players that have been available, in some cases (Mbye) because they had cap room spare when others had used all theirs. Going out now and blowing the one advantage they have on dumb deals for the likes of the Morris twins would put them right back where they were.

In fact, I think I agree with you: we need to sign origin class players. But the only way we're going to do that is by being in a good position to contend for them when they become available. If we used the whole cap now on minor upgrades all we'd be is a team that might come eighth and would then be mired in cap hell for another three years.
Until the nrl publicise contracts for transparency, we’ll never know.

I seriously doubt that (regardless of attempts to downplay it) Farah and Marshall are on base level contracts.

No idea what they are earning, but think it would be well above depth player value, when honestly this is what they should be.

Both have stated that they see themselves having important roles, so watch for more drama if they are not picked in the starting lineup.

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Post by gallagher » Fri 12 Oct, 2018 8:12 pm

2041 wrote:
Fri 12 Oct, 2018 7:43 pm
Ok mate I'll leave it there, we've both got a view hey? Nothing would make me happier than the Tigers proving you wrong with a big signing in January, which I hope shows that we're both fundamentally on the same side. Have a good weekend.
And to you aswell. The big signing sounds good.

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Post by diedpretty » Fri 12 Oct, 2018 9:32 pm

gallagher wrote:
Thu 11 Oct, 2018 3:32 pm
That's a small period of three months so you can't take much away from that stat either way.

Will our round 1 team be much better than this year's round 1 team? Not by much at this stage if you ask me.
2018
1. Lolohea
2. Thompson
3. Marsters
4. Naiqama
5. Watene-Zelezniak
6. Marshall
7. Brooks
8. Packer
9. Godinet
10. Eisenhuth
11. Lawrence
12. Rochow
13. Taylor
14. Matulino
15. Twal
16. CheeKam
17. McIlwrick


2019

1. Mbye
2. Thompson
3. Marsters
4. Momorovski
5. Nofoluma
6. Reynolds
7. Brooks
8. Packer
9. Liddle/Farah
10. Matulino
11. Lawrence
12. Matterson
13. Taylor
14. Twal
15. Eisenhuth/CheeKam
16. Farah/Liddle
17. Garner/Aloia


2019 at this stage looks a hell of lot better than 2018.


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Post by Balmainian » Fri 12 Oct, 2018 9:48 pm

gallagher wrote:
Thu 11 Oct, 2018 8:33 pm
2041 wrote:
Thu 11 Oct, 2018 8:29 pm
gallagher wrote:
Thu 11 Oct, 2018 8:19 pm
TigerSJ wrote:
Thu 11 Oct, 2018 8:13 pm


I'm with NT and 2041 - Benji was a choice that suits the club for a lot of reasons the least of which is that he was re-signed to be a starting half. I agree and also thought he looked shot over the last few months but we really had little choice other than to play him carrying injuries. As for Farah, he also is there for a reason and I'd expect he will get more game time than Benji.
I actually think that both of them being in the squad will provide something to the rest of the players whilst we go through the upheavel and transition of coaches.
The re-signing of both of them for one more year is certainly not going to be the downfall of the club in 2019 like some seem to be making out!
I dont think it will be our downfall but i dont think its moving us forward or imroving the roster. Wehave Gamble in the top 30, we dont need him and Marshall. Lino from the Warriors would have been a consideration if we need 4 halves in the top 30.Mybe can switch to the halves if injures hitaswell. Thompson looks a better fullback than winger to me anyway.

Farah? I can just see that blowing up when Liddle starts getting more match time.Seggy and Luke were both off contract and both better players this year.

Its just side way moving, not going forward.
Again, though, you're complaining about who the Tigers selected to be their backup hooker and backup half. It's a sideshow. There's not a team in the comp that wouldn't be massively damaged if their first-choice 9 or either of their first-choice halves went down for an extended period.

The problems the Tigers have in the spine are (1) the guy they gave a lot of money to be their starting 5/8 can't get fit, and (2) the guy they've decided is the future in the number 9 jersey also can't get fit. As it happens, I think they got way more out of both Marshall and Farah this year than they had any right to expect. But that's not really the issue - the issue is that half the spine missed 90% of the season.

Tell me how the Storm would have gone without Smith and Munster, or Souths without Cook and Reynolds. The Roosters might have been able to cope but only because Friend is probably the weakest player on their roster, but would they have won the comp if he and Keary had barely got on the park?
So all those teams made the top 4 without an experienced back up halfback/hooker. I dont see how that is proving your point .
Having Benji and Robbie is a good thing.
Almost as if there’s two coaches out there.
You need old guys in your team if you want to manage and win the right games.
Robbie’s last six weeks of footy was very good.
And Benji wasn’t our worst nightmare.
He got a lot out of brooks and we’ll all benefit from his time back here.....maybe not next week but a few more years helping brooks and who knows.
These are guys that want to be at your club, isn’t that what what we want? Blokes who wanna be here.

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Fri 12 Oct, 2018 10:11 pm

innsaneink wrote:
Thu 11 Oct, 2018 5:27 pm
If nothing changes nothing changes, unless t improves or goes south... We need a defensive line that repels the first 3 hit ups of the opposition's sets...i dunno if it's personnel training coaches or a bit of all three.... This mob better improve or it'll just be more of the same old same ol
We’ve picked up Matterson
who could be very good for us and Momo, who might be ok, but is still potential. But we haven’t bought much else( correct me if I’m wrong)
If we only have two spots left on our cap, where have we spent out money ???
LoLo has gone and we saved some there!
I understand that Reynolds is costing us a bundle, but we must be paying some overs when you look at our team
It’s not as if we had 6 or 7 stars on the books.

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Post by gallagher » Fri 12 Oct, 2018 10:25 pm

diedpretty wrote:
Fri 12 Oct, 2018 9:32 pm
gallagher wrote:
Thu 11 Oct, 2018 3:32 pm
That's a small period of three months so you can't take much away from that stat either way.

Will our round 1 team be much better than this year's round 1 team? Not by much at this stage if you ask me.
2018
1. Lolohea
2. Thompson
3. Marsters
4. Naiqama
5. Watene-Zelezniak
6. Marshall
7. Brooks
8. Packer
9. Godinet
10. Eisenhuth
11. Lawrence
12. Rochow
13. Taylor
14. Matulino
15. Twal
16. CheeKam
17. McIlwrick


2019

1. Mbye
2. Thompson
3. Marsters
4. Momorovski
5. Nofoluma
6. Reynolds
7. Brooks
8. Packer
9. Liddle/Farah
10. Matulino
11. Lawrence
12. Matterson
13. Taylor
14. Twal
15. Eisenhuth/CheeKam
16. Farah/Liddle
17. Garner/Aloia


2019 at this stage looks a hell of lot better than 2018.
Matterson and Mbye are big improvements. Much the sameness everywhere else though.

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Post by gallagher » Fri 12 Oct, 2018 10:26 pm

Balmainian wrote:
Fri 12 Oct, 2018 9:48 pm
gallagher wrote:
Thu 11 Oct, 2018 8:33 pm
2041 wrote:
Thu 11 Oct, 2018 8:29 pm
gallagher wrote:
Thu 11 Oct, 2018 8:19 pm


I dont think it will be our downfall but i dont think its moving us forward or imroving the roster. Wehave Gamble in the top 30, we dont need him and Marshall. Lino from the Warriors would have been a consideration if we need 4 halves in the top 30.Mybe can switch to the halves if injures hitaswell. Thompson looks a better fullback than winger to me anyway.

Farah? I can just see that blowing up when Liddle starts getting more match time.Seggy and Luke were both off contract and both better players this year.

Its just side way moving, not going forward.
Again, though, you're complaining about who the Tigers selected to be their backup hooker and backup half. It's a sideshow. There's not a team in the comp that wouldn't be massively damaged if their first-choice 9 or either of their first-choice halves went down for an extended period.

The problems the Tigers have in the spine are (1) the guy they gave a lot of money to be their starting 5/8 can't get fit, and (2) the guy they've decided is the future in the number 9 jersey also can't get fit. As it happens, I think they got way more out of both Marshall and Farah this year than they had any right to expect. But that's not really the issue - the issue is that half the spine missed 90% of the season.

Tell me how the Storm would have gone without Smith and Munster, or Souths without Cook and Reynolds. The Roosters might have been able to cope but only because Friend is probably the weakest player on their roster, but would they have won the comp if he and Keary had barely got on the park?
So all those teams made the top 4 without an experienced back up halfback/hooker. I dont see how that is proving your point .
Having Benji and Robbie is a good thing.
Almost as if there’s two coaches out there.
You need old guys in your team if you want to manage and win the right games.
Robbie’s last six weeks of footy was very good.
And Benji wasn’t our worst nightmare.
He got a lot out of brooks and we’ll all benefit from his time back here.....maybe not next week but a few more years helping brooks and who knows.
These are guys that want to be at your club, isn’t that what what we want? Blokes who wanna be here.
Everyone has a used by date, I just think they've reached theirs.

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Post by Tiger Steve » Fri 12 Oct, 2018 10:40 pm

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Fri 12 Oct, 2018 10:11 pm
innsaneink wrote:
Thu 11 Oct, 2018 5:27 pm
If nothing changes nothing changes, unless t improves or goes south... We need a defensive line that repels the first 3 hit ups of the opposition's sets...i dunno if it's personnel training coaches or a bit of all three.... This mob better improve or it'll just be more of the same old same ol
We’ve picked up Matterson
who could be very good for us and Momo, who might be ok, but is still potential. But we haven’t bought much else( correct me if I’m wrong)
If we only have two spots left on our cap, where have we spent out money ???
LoLo has gone and we saved some there!
I understand that Reynolds is costing us a bundle, but we must be paying some overs when you look at our team
It’s not as if we had 6 or 7 stars on the books.
It’s a good question GCT.
All I can think is - remember Pom said there were a couple of decent signings in the mix. Maybe there is a bit of money left for numbers 29 and 30 with the view they will be top line players. That’s all I can think
“Peanuts! Get ya peanuts - in the shell or sugar coated!” Leichhardt memories.

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Fri 12 Oct, 2018 10:48 pm

Tiger Steve wrote:
Fri 12 Oct, 2018 10:40 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Fri 12 Oct, 2018 10:11 pm
innsaneink wrote:
Thu 11 Oct, 2018 5:27 pm
If nothing changes nothing changes, unless t improves or goes south... We need a defensive line that repels the first 3 hit ups of the opposition's sets...i dunno if it's personnel training coaches or a bit of all three.... This mob better improve or it'll just be more of the same old same ol
We’ve picked up Matterson
who could be very good for us and Momo, who might be ok, but is still potential. But we haven’t bought much else( correct me if I’m wrong)
If we only have two spots left on our cap, where have we spent out money ???
LoLo has gone and we saved some there!
I understand that Reynolds is costing us a bundle, but we must be paying some overs when you look at our team
It’s not as if we had 6 or 7 stars on the books.
It’s a good question GCT.
All I can think is - remember Pom said there were a couple of decent signings in the mix. Maybe there is a bit of money left for numbers 29 and 30 with the view they will be top line players. That’s all I can think

Yeah, I remember something like that, hope so.
It’s just that when you look at our team list , its hard to correlate our team and the money that we’re spending, certainly hope that there’s more cavalary coming :D

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Post by Balmainian » Sun 14 Oct, 2018 1:34 am

gallagher wrote:
Fri 12 Oct, 2018 10:25 pm
diedpretty wrote:
Fri 12 Oct, 2018 9:32 pm
gallagher wrote:
Thu 11 Oct, 2018 3:32 pm
That's a small period of three months so you can't take much away from that stat either way.

Will our round 1 team be much better than this year's round 1 team? Not by much at this stage if you ask me.
2018
1. Lolohea
2. Thompson
3. Marsters
4. Naiqama
5. Watene-Zelezniak
6. Marshall
7. Brooks
8. Packer
9. Godinet
10. Eisenhuth
11. Lawrence
12. Rochow
13. Taylor
14. Matulino
15. Twal
16. CheeKam
17. McIlwrick


2019

1. Mbye
2. Thompson
3. Marsters
4. Momorovski
5. Nofoluma
6. Reynolds
7. Brooks
8. Packer
9. Liddle/Farah
10. Matulino
11. Lawrence
12. Matterson
13. Taylor
14. Twal
15. Eisenhuth/CheeKam
16. Farah/Liddle
17. Garner/Aloia


2019 at this stage looks a hell of lot better than 2018.
Matterson and Mbye are big improvements. Much the sameness everywhere else though.
Farah, Mbye and Reynolds(spine players).
Garner and Matterson are good upgrades too.
There’s enough quality players in our side to get excited for next year, it might be a good one.

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Post by Geo. » Sun 14 Oct, 2018 2:02 am

diedpretty wrote:
Fri 12 Oct, 2018 9:32 pm
gallagher wrote:
Thu 11 Oct, 2018 3:32 pm
That's a small period of three months so you can't take much away from that stat either way.

Will our round 1 team be much better than this year's round 1 team? Not by much at this stage if you ask me.
2018
1. Lolohea
2. Thompson
3. Marsters
4. Naiqama
5. Watene-Zelezniak
6. Marshall
7. Brooks
8. Packer
9. Godinet
10. Eisenhuth
11. Lawrence
12. Rochow
13. Taylor
14. Matulino
15. Twal
16. CheeKam
17. McIlwrick


2019

1. Mbye
2. Thompson
3. Marsters
4. Momorovski
5. Nofoluma
6. Reynolds
7. Brooks
8. Packer
9. Liddle/Farah
10. Matulino
11. Lawrence
12. Matterson
13. Taylor
14. Twal
15. Eisenhuth/CheeKam
16. Farah/Liddle
17. Garner/Aloia


2019 at this stage looks a hell of lot better than 2018.
Momirovski....I I I... :brick:
Wests Tigers don't need a Coach.. The playing group has taken over..
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 25 Oct, 2018 12:17 am

OK I was wrong

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Post by happy tiger » Sun 14 Oct, 2018 3:25 am

Geo. wrote:
Sun 14 Oct, 2018 2:02 am
diedpretty wrote:
Fri 12 Oct, 2018 9:32 pm
gallagher wrote:
Thu 11 Oct, 2018 3:32 pm
That's a small period of three months so you can't take much away from that stat either way.

Will our round 1 team be much better than this year's round 1 team? Not by much at this stage if you ask me.
2018
1. Lolohea
2. Thompson
3. Marsters
4. Naiqama
5. Watene-Zelezniak
6. Marshall
7. Brooks
8. Packer
9. Godinet
10. Eisenhuth
11. Lawrence
12. Rochow
13. Taylor
14. Matulino
15. Twal
16. CheeKam
17. McIlwrick


2019

1. Mbye
2. Thompson
3. Marsters
4. Momorovski
5. Nofoluma
6. Reynolds
7. Brooks
8. Packer
9. Liddle/Farah
10. Matulino
11. Lawrence
12. Matterson
13. Taylor
14. Twal
15. Eisenhuth/CheeKam
16. Farah/Liddle
17. Garner/Aloia


2019 at this stage looks a hell of lot better than 2018.
Momirovski....I I I... :brick:
Oh you mean Moo Moo

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Post by Telltails » Sun 14 Oct, 2018 4:35 am

Still cant see who is going to make the metres up front. We got found out at the backend of last year with a pack that went backwards against the opposition, and we have made no improvement what so ever in that area.

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Post by NT Tiger » Sun 14 Oct, 2018 7:12 am

Telltails wrote:
Sun 14 Oct, 2018 4:35 am
Still cant see who is going to make the metres up front. We got found out at the backend of last year with a pack that went backwards against the opposition, and we have made no improvement what so ever in that area.
Yes. Id still like to see some movement there before the season begins.
"Quality Stupidity"

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Post by Tigerdon » Sun 14 Oct, 2018 7:13 am

Telltails wrote:
Sun 14 Oct, 2018 4:35 am
Still cant see who is going to make the metres up front. We got found out at the backend of last year with a pack that went backwards against the opposition, and we have made no improvement what so ever in that area.
I tend to agree. we are definitely at least one big bopper short, at the very least.
For our back to have any chance, our forwards need to be making inroads through the line.
Once Packer did his knee In 2018 we went on a loosing streak. Need some solid depth in this area.
in Ivan we distrust

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Post by NT Tiger » Sun 14 Oct, 2018 7:24 am

Tigerdon wrote:
Sun 14 Oct, 2018 7:13 am
Telltails wrote:
Sun 14 Oct, 2018 4:35 am
Still cant see who is going to make the metres up front. We got found out at the backend of last year with a pack that went backwards against the opposition, and we have made no improvement what so ever in that area.
I tend to agree. we are definitely at least one big bopper short, at the very least.
For our back to have any chance, our forwards need to be making inroads through the line.
Once Packer did his knee In 2018 we went on a loosing streak. Need some solid depth in this area.
There is also the Cleary's apparent use of the forwards primarily in defence, saving energy in attack, If we end up with a new coach, will we have the forwards to handle a changed approach?
"Quality Stupidity"

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