Matt Groat?

Wests Tigers Discussion
Skando&Hodgo
Member
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri 17 Feb, 2012 12:20 am

Re: Matt Groat?

Post by Skando&Hodgo » Sat 29 Dec, 2012 10:02 pm

Ed Reschs wrote:
GNR4LIFE wrote:Groat has to be one of the most least talented players i've seen in a while. Lucky to still be a first grader in 3 or 4 yrs imo
The kid played front row at 18. Much tougher than some the keyboard warriors on here


Posted using RoarFEED 2012
Well said. Most props, especially going back in time take several years to mature. Woods is a freak who has developed super quick. Like someone else said give Groat a chance he may still develop into a solid 1st Grader


Posted using RoarFEED 2012


tigerbalm
Member
Member
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun 19 Feb, 2012 7:32 pm

Post by tigerbalm » Sat 29 Dec, 2012 10:03 pm

Ed Reschs wrote:
GNR4LIFE wrote:Groat has to be one of the most least talented players i've seen in a while. Lucky to still be a first grader in 3 or 4 yrs imo
The kid played front row at 18. Much tougher than some the keyboard warriors on here


Posted using RoarFEED 2012

You can be tough but still have no talent. I wish him well but I think he will end up on the long list of players that were lacking something.


Posted using RoarFEED 2012

InBenjiWeTrust
Member
Member
Posts: 2088
Joined: Mon 12 Mar, 2012 2:59 pm

Post by InBenjiWeTrust » Sat 29 Dec, 2012 10:05 pm

IMHO, we have ATM a few better young props than Groat: Seumanufagai, Fotuaika, Sue, Brown and perhaps
Buchanan. Hopefully he can and will improve.

User avatar
GNR4LIFE
Member
Member
Posts: 22680
Joined: Mon 28 Feb, 2011 5:57 pm

Post by GNR4LIFE » Sat 29 Dec, 2012 10:17 pm

Ed Reschs wrote:
GNR4LIFE wrote:Groat has to be one of the most least talented players i've seen in a while. Lucky to still be a first grader in 3 or 4 yrs imo
The kid played front row at 18. Much tougher than some the keyboard warriors on here


Posted using RoarFEED 2012
He did and he cost us big time in the final against the Warriors. Is it allowed to not rate a player? or is it because he's a Wests player we all must see him as a rising star? Not every young player who comes into fg lasts the journey. IMO Groat will be ones of those players. If having having that opinion is so shocking that it makes me a keyboard warrior to you then so be it

User avatar
MacDougall
Member
Member
Posts: 7967
Joined: Mon 13 Jul, 2009 4:03 am
Location: Brisbane, QLD

Post by MacDougall » Sat 29 Dec, 2012 10:55 pm

Groat was going okay at the back end of 2011 up until the very last match. He struggled a lot in 2012 when he was asked to be a starting prop alongside another youngster (albeit one who handled it remarkably well). People were saying both of them were weak and lacked heart and what not but if you look back, even during our hopeless start to the year, Woods was actually going great and it was Groat + no real input from the other forwards either that caused us to get rolled through. Then he got absolutely floored in a tackle that wasn't intentional despite what some of you here think, but certainly was illegal. He didn't play again in first grade in 2012 and actually got injured and missed all but 2 matches in the NYC as well, both of which he was clearly still injured in. To say he suffered a loss of confidence is rich because we didn't actually see him play at 100% afterwards, so he may well have been perfectly fine mentally.

From the reports I have heard Groat is looking and behaving like a guy with a point to prove. He looks bigger and he is training well. He has put in some impressive performances in first grade, especially considering he was actually 18 at the time and there is a reason that he is one of the most decorated junior rep players in the current era. Comparing him to Woods is unfair. Woods is a different animal who not only handles it but often dominates in the top grade amongst men. I think it's because of his footwork and agility more than anything, which allows him to get between defenders and minimise the impact a defender can hit him with and also the leverage they can gain on him which allows him to get more balance in the impact and often roll forward further from the point of impact. Groat is a different prop, and is used to being stronger and bigger than the guys he runs at. More like a Matty Scott, whereas Woods is a Tamou. When he came up to grade, the style that he brought with him made it tough for him because he was running at the toughest blokes in the toughest comp in the world. That's not to suggest he won't end up bigger than other first grade props. He almost certainly will, and when his body catches up, he may dominate the top grade like he did the juniors.

Matt Scott debuted at 18 and got injured in his debut match. He was always a talent but he didn't start utterly dominating until 2009, when he was 23. Groat debuted at 18 and performed better than Scott did at that age. Groat has bigger wraps on him than Scott did at the same age. To write him off is premature to say the least.

It may not and most likely will not be 2013 that Groat becomes a real first grader, but check back with him when he is 23. I'll make a bold prediction and say he'll be a Blue.


cusschops
Member
Member
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed 27 Apr, 2011 7:08 pm

Post by cusschops » Sat 29 Dec, 2012 11:12 pm

Groat doesn't cut it in my opinion. Let him go elsewhere.


Posted using RoarFEED 2012

happy tiger
Member
Member
Posts: 41217
Joined: Sun 27 Feb, 2011 4:49 pm

Post by happy tiger » Sat 29 Dec, 2012 11:18 pm

cusschops wrote:Groat doesn't cut it in my opinion. Let him go elsewhere.


Posted using RoarFEED 2012
Dunno Cusschops ,what would it hurt to give him another two seasons He won't be on much money and he has more going for him than not

Worth the risk in my opinion

cusschops
Member
Member
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed 27 Apr, 2011 7:08 pm

Post by cusschops » Sat 29 Dec, 2012 11:23 pm

happy tiger wrote:
cusschops wrote:Groat doesn't cut it in my opinion. Let him go elsewhere.


Posted using RoarFEED 2012
Dunno Cusschops ,what would it hurt to give him another two seasons He won't be on much money and he has more going for him than not

Worth the risk in my opinion
I just don't think he cuts it in the top grade. I don't know if he's in Potters plans for next year and only time will tell. The only way i think he might get a run will be through injury. If that's the case then I'd rather see some of the other youngsters given a go. Once again my opinion.


Posted using RoarFEED 2012

happy tiger
Member
Member
Posts: 41217
Joined: Sun 27 Feb, 2011 4:49 pm

Post by happy tiger » Sat 29 Dec, 2012 11:34 pm

cusschops wrote:
happy tiger wrote:
cusschops wrote:Groat doesn't cut it in my opinion. Let him go elsewhere.


Posted using RoarFEED 2012
Dunno Cusschops ,what would it hurt to give him another two seasons He won't be on much money and he has more going for him than not

Worth the risk in my opinion
I just don't think he cuts it in the top grade. I don't know if he's in Potters plans for next year and only time will tell. The only way i think he might get a run will be through injury. If that's the case then I'd rather see some of the other youngsters given a go. Once again my opinion.


Posted using RoarFEED 2012
His biggest issues were lack of fitness and lateral movement Two things that should be pretty easy to fix for a young fella as long as they give him time He was put in a position in 2012 that he should of never been put in

The other issue is ( and I know I've brought it up before ) that we compare Groat to Woods

Woods first full season in grade was as good as Lazarus's first season in grade Thats how good Woods is

Groat isn't in Woods hemisphere , but there is no reason why Groat can't become a solid NRL player if he is prepared to work hard and develop his style and game

User avatar
MacDougall
Member
Member
Posts: 7967
Joined: Mon 13 Jul, 2009 4:03 am
Location: Brisbane, QLD

Post by MacDougall » Sun 30 Dec, 2012 12:13 am

Lol to even suggest he might just luckily become passable is also cutting him short. In fact rating him, not rating him or suggesting that you may one day rate him are all equally ridiculous. The fact is, the kid is highly touted by a boat load of people who know better than you or I. He played in every junior team possible. He dominated everybody and was the best Aussie junior of his age for years. He then came to NYC and actually DIDN'T dominate at all there but got the jump on Begovich on pedigree alone and played alright for a while, as a reserve prop who played about 17 minutes a game. Then he was forced to become a starting front rower at a club notorious for being piss weak in the pigs and got trampled. If the place wasn't run by somebody who so overtly played favourites Groat would still have not made a first grade debut imo, Begovich would have (and probably would be a regular first grader by now but I digress) and nobody would be saying he sucks and has no hope either.

Forget what you know about Matt Groat and judge him on what he presents to you next time or if he gets a shot in the top grade again. He may not even get another crack at first grade if he doesn't carve up the state cup, especially with a bunch of other very talented props all at the club now in Seumanufagai, Fotuaika, Buchanan, Sue, Passi, Gavet et al. Or he may put in tremendous off field work in the off season, make 200 metres and make 40 tackles in round 1 for state cup and get immediately called up and become Matt Scott overnight. He might get picked in first grade in round 1 even. Or he may toil for years and finally get another crack when he's 24 and become Matt Bell. I just cannot see the sense in passing judgement on him already.

User avatar
LaT
Member
Member
Posts: 3468
Joined: Fri 07 Jan, 2011 4:55 pm
Location: NSW
Contact:

Post by LaT » Sun 30 Dec, 2012 1:32 am

GNR4LIFE wrote:
Ed Reschs wrote:
GNR4LIFE wrote:Groat has to be one of the most least talented players i've seen in a while. Lucky to still be a first grader in 3 or 4 yrs imo
The kid played front row at 18. Much tougher than some the keyboard warriors on here


Posted using RoarFEED 2012
He did and he cost us big time in the final against the Warriors. Is it allowed to not rate a player? or is it because he's a Wests player we all must see him as a rising star? Not every young player who comes into fg lasts the journey. IMO Groat will be ones of those players. If having having that opinion is so shocking that it makes me a keyboard warrior to you then so be it
Sure its allowed to not rate a player.

But its also allowed to see potential and room for development without automatically being bias because of the jumper he wears.
TigPies till I die!

I say, I say I resemble that remark!

User avatar
innsaneink
Member
Member
Posts: 29610
Joined: Fri 10 Jul, 2009 9:49 pm
Location: ...ahead of you....

Post by innsaneink » Sun 30 Dec, 2012 7:30 am

What idiot first brought up the ''keyboard warrior'' term for someone having an opinion?
Bloody hell....grow up! Some precious souls here

User avatar
AmericanHistoryX
Member
Member
Posts: 7181
Joined: Sat 11 Jul, 2009 11:15 am
Location: Ho Chi Min City

Post by AmericanHistoryX » Sun 30 Dec, 2012 10:03 am

all i remember is my last memory of him - pumbled by the St. George pack. Vanished after that.

Groat however is not finished yet- under Potter there is a chance for redemption. Lord Tim saw him as the new Fifita. Didn't work.




Posted using RoarFEED 2012
Clouds of Dust, Buckets of Blood

Image
"They overcame the impossible by doing the unthinkable"

jadtiger
Forum Suppoter
Forum Suppoter
Posts: 3496
Joined: Mon 13 Jul, 2009 8:12 am
Location: bayview

Post by jadtiger » Sun 30 Dec, 2012 11:31 am

He is far to young to be written off i remember some people rubbishing gibbs at the same age.Give the man 3 years more and see how he develops.Dont forget that our previous coach expected far to much from him at an early age to cover the fact that he recruited very poorly

magpiecol
Member
Member
Posts: 3220
Joined: Mon 13 Jul, 2009 3:02 pm

Post by magpiecol » Sun 30 Dec, 2012 2:24 pm

jadtiger wrote:He is far to young to be written off i remember some people rubbishing gibbs at the same age.Give the man 3 years more and see how he develops.Dont forget that our previous coach expected far to much from him at an early age to cover the fact that he recruited very poorly

And he (Sheens) stopped him from doing what comes natural to him. That is offloading of the ball. He was one of the best at it until Sheens ( I believe) put a stop to him playing that way and instead tried to make him a straight up the middle player.

He did the same to Galloway. When he played for Cronulla he was one of the best at the offload. Not much over the past few years. Again, I believe that this was the coaching of Sheens.

Give Groat a chance to play his natural game and you will see a different player.

He is also a nice young bloke. No "peanut" about him.

andrew 474
Member
Member
Posts: 1546
Joined: Sat 11 Jun, 2011 2:15 pm

Post by andrew 474 » Sun 30 Dec, 2012 2:38 pm

we should have a better idea at the end of this coming season , cant write him of yet , still can prove his worth

User avatar
innsaneink
Member
Member
Posts: 29610
Joined: Fri 10 Jul, 2009 9:49 pm
Location: ...ahead of you....

Post by innsaneink » Sun 30 Dec, 2012 3:21 pm

magpiecol wrote:
jadtiger wrote:He is far to young to be written off i remember some people rubbishing gibbs at the same age.Give the man 3 years more and see how he develops.Dont forget that our previous coach expected far to much from him at an early age to cover the fact that he recruited very poorly

And he (Sheens) stopped him from doing what comes natural to him. That is offloading of the ball. He was one of the best at it until Sheens ( I believe) put a stop to him playing that way and instead tried to make him a straight up the middle player.

He did the same to Galloway. When he played for Cronulla he was one of the best at the offload. Not much over the past few years. Again, I believe that this was the coaching of Sheens.

Give Groat a chance to play his natural game and you will see a different player.

He is also a nice young bloke. No "peanut" about him.

Sheens isnt alone here in this regard, most coaches nowdays want their big boppas to just tuck it under and make 8,12-16m without dropping it - go forward, nothing more

Newtown
Member
Member
Posts: 5672
Joined: Fri 28 Sep, 2012 8:40 am

Post by Newtown » Sun 30 Dec, 2012 4:14 pm

innsaneink wrote:
Sheens isnt alone here in this regard, most coaches nowdays want their big boppas to just tuck it under and make 8,12-16m without dropping it - go forward, nothing more
With so many forwards having to play like that no wonder they become the victims of the now illegal shoulder charge.

Post Reply