Memo to Ivan Cleary

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Russell
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Re: Memo to Ivan Cleary

Post by Russell » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 11:52 am

batboy wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 8:17 am
Tarl wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:43 pm
Honestly, it's illuminating at how thin-skinned and sensitive we all are.

In the real world, if you had plans of changing employers in 2 years or when your contract runs out, do you think the boss and your fellow employees would tell you to leave now? Would they get so offended that you want to work for a different company and call you names?

This is one of the modern issues with Western society, we are too readily offended and almost eager to be outraged.

Until he's gone IC is our coach. Afterwards, whenever that happens to be, go hard. But until then a dose of reality may do wonders!

*[sound of me getting off my high-horse and leaving the room]
You’ve obviously never held a job with any level of importance...
I can assure you in the industry I’m in - if you declare at any point, that you are to be employed by a competing firm... you’re generally escorted off the premises, regardless of how much notice you give
Absolutely - happens all the time.


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Post by formerguest » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 12:08 pm

fibrodreaming wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 6:21 pm
Tarl wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:43 pm
Honestly, it's illuminating at how thin-skinned and sensitive we all are.

In the real world, if you had plans of changing employers in 2 years or when your contract runs out, do you think the boss and your fellow employees would tell you to leave now? Would they get so offended that you want to work for a different company and call you names?

This is one of the modern issues with Western society, we are too readily offended and almost eager to be outraged.

Until he's gone IC is our coach. Afterwards, whenever that happens to be, go hard. But until then a dose of reality may do wonders!

*[sound of me getting off my high-horse and leaving the room]
Ivan has made a decision that is in his own best financial interests. I can't blame him for that - although I believe that he had to compromise his standards of integrity to achieve this outcome.

But, your assertions about the "real" world are simply not true. I am sure that if you worked in a competitive industry with lots of secret intelligence, and a colleague of yours who was tasked with putting in place strategies to move the organisation forward over the next few years, declared that, in two years time, they were joining a rival organisation, their employer would take steps to remove them or, at least, move them off-line.

I am happy to be corrected, but I don't recall an NRL coach signing a contract to coach a team in two years time. The only reason the Panthers and Cleary have done so is to force the Tigers into releasing Ivan for the 2019 season. It is duplicitous for Ivan to say that he intends to honour his contract. He knows that he has put the Tigers in an impossible position.

I believe that Tiger's supporters have every right to feel disappointed and angry.
Though I am yet to see anything from the respective 'players' pointing to a future contract having been finalised, so am very unsure as to that situation, it is good that you seem to have seen the light regarding the actions of our coach.

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 2:26 pm

fibrodreaming wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 8:41 am
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 6:21 am
Demonborger wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 12:31 am
fibrodreaming wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 6:21 pm


Ivan has made a decision that is in his own best financial interests. I can't blame him for that - although I believe that he had to compromise his standards of integrity to achieve this outcome.



But, your assertions about the "real" world are simply not true. I am sure that if you worked in a competitive industry with lots of secret intelligence, and a colleague of yours who was tasked with putting in place strategies to move the organisation forward over the next few years, declared that, in two years time, they were joining a rival organisation, their employer would take steps to remove them or, at least, move them off-line.

I am happy to be corrected, but I don't recall an NRL coach signing a contract to coach a team in two years time. The only reason the Panthers and Cleary have done so is to force the Tigers into releasing Ivan for the 2019 season. It is duplicitous for Ivan to say that he intends to honour his contract. He knows that he has put the Tigers in an impossible position.

I believe that Tiger's supporters have every right to feel disappointed and angry.
Closest in recent times was Des Hasler at Manly.
Hardly a real comparison as I’m sure that our so called “Secrets” Are not of world changing significance, unless we are buying some supplements that will turn some of our plodders into the Burghii,
Also , Ivan has already signed two very good buys for the club, so he’s already doing his job .
And in most cases, how would any of us know what future dealings that ANY coach
Has made in the past, whether it’s one or two years in advance of his present contract,

Seibold could have signed a contract last April, go to another club at the end of this season, or next season if he chose to, , no difference if it’s one year , or two years ,he’s still able to have access to the
“Secrets” of Souths
I wasn't attempting to provide an exact analogy and I wasn't suggesting that the Tigers have "secrets".

I was commenting on the general proposition that in the "real world" (Tari's words) your work colleagues and your employer bold as an example of whatswould be relaxed if you announced that you would be leaving in two years time and joining a rival organisation. There would be many examples in the "real world" where that would not be the case.

I also used in my analogy a person "tasked with putting in place strategies to move the organisation forward over the next few years". That is closer to the Tiger's situation with Cleary. I notice you haven't taken issue with that part of the analogy.

Incidentally, I see that my original post appears three time on the previous page. I don't know why - I only submitted it once.
You were the one who actually did compare the two jobs.

And I DID take issue with all of your post , I said that there’s no difference if a coach signs one ot two years before leaving, there’s nothing that makes him disclose that fact, and used Seinold as an example
It’s not suddenly a situation that hasn’t happened before.

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 2:37 pm

Pawsandclaws wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:41 pm
Go way back to the beginning when Marina Go became involved. I believe one of her issues concerned contract negotiations with Cleary prior to him getting aboard (the bus). If I recall, Marina Go stated that coaching his son was not part of the agreement signed by IC. To me, that was a very pointed remark as the main conclusion to be drawn from it was that he wanted to do it sooner rather than later. Also, the threat of a legal solution issued by Pascoe to me was also directed at IC as well as the Panthers.
Anyone can direct legal threats as much as they want,
It means nothing without evidence that something has happened
There is NO evidence that Anyone caused anyone else to break a contract,

Ivan signed with Penrith for a period that was AFTER he was finished here, end of story as far as legal threats go,
Marina was throwing as much bluff as she could, she had to say something

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 2:38 pm

Pawsandclaws wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 11:09 am
TIGER wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 10:59 am
I'm just glad we won't have to deal with the father coach, son high profile player combination and all the drama that would create.

From the moment I heard about this desire for Cleary to coach his son I knew it would cause problems, we don't need the drama that comes with it, I'm happy for Penrith to have that.

What annoys me is this continual trend of coaches arriving with a "plan" recruiting mediocre players then leaving their mess behind for the next coach for the cycle to continue.
Josh Stuart when interviewed on tv last night was far from convinced a father coaching his son could work or indeed should happen. I'd suggest there is a lot of pressure on IC right now.
Who’s Josh Stuart??


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Post by coivtny » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 2:58 pm

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 2:37 pm
Pawsandclaws wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:41 pm
Go way back to the beginning when Marina Go became involved. I believe one of her issues concerned contract negotiations with Cleary prior to him getting aboard (the bus). If I recall, Marina Go stated that coaching his son was not part of the agreement signed by IC. To me, that was a very pointed remark as the main conclusion to be drawn from it was that he wanted to do it sooner rather than later. Also, the threat of a legal solution issued by Pascoe to me was also directed at IC as well as the Panthers.
Anyone can direct legal threats as much as they want,
It means nothing without evidence that something has happened
There is NO evidence that Anyone caused anyone else to break a contract,

Ivan signed with Penrith for a period that was AFTER he was finished here, end of story as far as legal threats go,
Marina was throwing as much bluff as she could, she had to say something
It's an interesting situation. You could argue successfully that Cleary is conflicted now that he has signed for Penrith from 2021. For example if a top player becomes available for 2020 and Ivan knows both WT and Penrith are interested in a 4 year deal, surely you couldn't rely on Ivan to push WT's case in front of Penrith. I guess that can be resolved by taking recruitment responsibilities away from him but I don't see that as a good option. But it's almost impossible to argue that Penrith have crossed the legal line. I just think Ivan's position at WT is now untenable and we have to cut him loose without leaving ourselves liable to a payout.

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Post by Pawsandclaws » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 3:00 pm

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 2:37 pm
Pawsandclaws wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:41 pm
Go way back to the beginning when Marina Go became involved. I believe one of her issues concerned contract negotiations with Cleary prior to him getting aboard (the bus). If I recall, Marina Go stated that coaching his son was not part of the agreement signed by IC. To me, that was a very pointed remark as the main conclusion to be drawn from it was that he wanted to do it sooner rather than later. Also, the threat of a legal solution issued by Pascoe to me was also directed at IC as well as the Panthers.
Anyone can direct legal threats as much as they want,
It means nothing without evidence that something has happened
There is NO evidence that Anyone caused anyone else to break a contract,

Ivan signed with Penrith for a period that was AFTER he was finished here, end of story as far as legal threats go,
Marina was throwing as much bluff as she could, she had to say something
Well GC, there are some pretty strong words from Pascoe in the article attached for something which according to you did not happen. Noting that it would be interesting to have Pascoe publicly release what was discussed.

Also, if the matters discussed related to his new contract from 2021, why was the subject of a release (presumably from his existing contract) mentioned by Pascoe? Seems to me like there has been one hell of a lot of backpedalling from the mob at Emu Plains.

https://www.sportingnews.com/au/league/ ... roib8kueps

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 3:33 pm

Pawsandclaws wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 3:00 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 2:37 pm
Pawsandclaws wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:41 pm
Go way back to the beginning when Marina Go became involved. I believe one of her issues concerned contract negotiations with Cleary prior to him getting aboard (the bus). If I recall, Marina Go stated that coaching his son was not part of the agreement signed by IC. To me, that was a very pointed remark as the main conclusion to be drawn from it was that he wanted to do it sooner rather than later. Also, the threat of a legal solution issued by Pascoe to me was also directed at IC as well as the Panthers.
Anyone can direct legal threats as much as they want,
It means nothing without evidence that something has happened
There is NO evidence that Anyone caused anyone else to break a contract,

Ivan signed with Penrith for a period that was AFTER he was finished here, end of story as far as legal threats go,
Marina was throwing as much bluff as she could, she had to say something
Well GC, there are some pretty strong words from Pascoe in the article attached for something which according to you did not happen. Noting that it would be interesting to have Pascoe publicly release what was discussed.

Also, if the matters discussed related to his new contract from 2021, why was the subject of a release (presumably from his existing contract) mentioned by Pascoe? Seems to me like there has been one hell of a lot of backpedalling from the mob at Emu Plains.

https://www.sportingnews.com/au/league/ ... roib8kueps
As I said , no accusations of breaking any contract
Panthers were interested in signin him, nothing , about when, he’s entitled to ask for a release, nothing there to attract a contract breach charge.
I didn’t say nothing didn’t happen, but we have to have concrete evidence of anyone trying to get Ivan to break his contract , we’ve got nothing,
You might say that we’ve done a bit of backpedaling as well and any talk of legal actioned has died out,
All bluff or it would be happening.

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Post by Tarl » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 9:54 pm

batboy wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 8:17 am
Tarl wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:43 pm
Honestly, it's illuminating at how thin-skinned and sensitive we all are.

In the real world, if you had plans of changing employers in 2 years or when your contract runs out, do you think the boss and your fellow employees would tell you to leave now? Would they get so offended that you want to work for a different company and call you names?

This is one of the modern issues with Western society, we are too readily offended and almost eager to be outraged.

Until he's gone IC is our coach. Afterwards, whenever that happens to be, go hard. But until then a dose of reality may do wonders!

*[sound of me getting off my high-horse and leaving the room]
You’ve obviously never held a job with any level of importance...
I can assure you in the industry I’m in - if you declare at any point, that you are to be employed by a competing firm... you’re generally escorted off the premises, regardless of how much notice you give
You obviously keep fit by jumping to conclusions. No need for personal assertions that you know nothing about. All I'm saying is he has the right to look at other modes of employment (as do you). I guess we also have the right to be upset by that.

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Post by happy tiger » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 10:12 pm

If you blame Gus for all this you feel far better

And then we can run him down at the Carringbah fish n chips shop that someone else mentioned

#saveclearyhanggus

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 11:47 pm

Tarl wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 9:54 pm
batboy wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 8:17 am
Tarl wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:43 pm
Honestly, it's illuminating at how thin-skinned and sensitive we all are.

In the real world, if you had plans of changing employers in 2 years or when your contract runs out, do you think the boss and your fellow employees would tell you to leave now? Would they get so offended that you want to work for a different company and call you names?

This is one of the modern issues with Western society, we are too readily offended and almost eager to be outraged.

Until he's gone IC is our coach. Afterwards, whenever that happens to be, go hard. But until then a dose of reality may do wonders!

*[sound of me getting off my high-horse and leaving the room]
You’ve obviously never held a job with any level of importance...
I can assure you in the industry I’m in - if you declare at any point, that you are to be employed by a competing firm... you’re generally escorted off the premises, regardless of how much notice you give
You obviously keep fit by jumping to conclusions. No need for personal assertions that you know nothing about. All I'm saying is he has the right to look at other modes of employment (as do you). I guess we also have the right to be upset by that.
Maybe then you should get a better job , but then again, if they’d throw you out that easy, of course you’d have to be pretty stupid to tell them wouldn’t you,
As for my poor little insignificant job, I’m Self employed and have been since I finished my apprenticeship,over 50 yrs ago , and have been solely responsible for makeing my business not only survive but to be sucessful,
Despite thati, I’d be ever so thankful if you could give me some lessons on howto be Important to my business, as I’m desperate to gain from your obviously deep well of self importance :pray:

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Post by Pawsandclaws » Mon 08 Oct, 2018 5:17 am

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 3:33 pm
Pawsandclaws wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 3:00 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 2:37 pm
Pawsandclaws wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:41 pm
Go way back to the beginning when Marina Go became involved. I believe one of her issues concerned contract negotiations with Cleary prior to him getting aboard (the bus). If I recall, Marina Go stated that coaching his son was not part of the agreement signed by IC. To me, that was a very pointed remark as the main conclusion to be drawn from it was that he wanted to do it sooner rather than later. Also, the threat of a legal solution issued by Pascoe to me was also directed at IC as well as the Panthers.
Anyone can direct legal threats as much as they want,
It means nothing without evidence that something has happened
There is NO evidence that Anyone caused anyone else to break a contract,

Ivan signed with Penrith for a period that was AFTER he was finished here, end of story as far as legal threats go,
Marina was throwing as much bluff as she could, she had to say something
Well GC, there are some pretty strong words from Pascoe in the article attached for something which according to you did not happen. Noting that it would be interesting to have Pascoe publicly release what was discussed.

Also, if the matters discussed related to his new contract from 2021, why was the subject of a release (presumably from his existing contract) mentioned by Pascoe? Seems to me like there has been one hell of a lot of backpedalling from the mob at Emu Plains.

https://www.sportingnews.com/au/league/ ... roib8kueps
As I said , no accusations of breaking any contract
Panthers were interested in signin him, nothing , about when, he’s entitled to ask for a release, nothing there to attract a contract breach charge.
I didn’t say nothing didn’t happen, but we have to have concrete evidence of anyone trying to get Ivan to break his contract , we’ve got nothing,
You might say that we’ve done a bit of backpedaling as well and any talk of legal actioned has died out,
All bluff or it would be happening.
I've stated all along the legal remedy option in my view was not only directed at the Panthers but at IC himself. I also believe Marina Go's quite pointed remark about what was discussed prior to IC signing the contract with the Club (that coaching his son was not disscussed or agreed upon) is a clear indication IC wanted to exit the WTs early to do just that. We know also a rep. of the Panthers hinted that it was IC himself who suggested an early exit from WTs. My view again is the Emu Plains debacle believed WTs would simply roll over because we are considered insignificant and the next two years apparently is their premiership window. I can't see the latter as I believe many of their players are overrated.

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Mon 08 Oct, 2018 6:46 am

It isn’t illegal to ask for a release if that’s what you’re talking about,if
When or if we had any legal way of sorting this out. It would’ve began before getting to this stage as the longer it drags on the worse it is,
Still nothing concrete , so no legal action possible or probable

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Mon 08 Oct, 2018 6:49 am

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 6:46 am
It isn’t illegal to ask for a release if that’s what you’re talking about,if
When or if we had any legal way of sorting this out. It would’ve began before getting to this stage as the longer it drags on the worse it is,
Still nothing concrete , so no legal action possible or probable

And if Penrith players are over rated , could we please take a few of them off their hands

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Post by wt01 » Mon 08 Oct, 2018 10:37 am

Congratulations Our Dearest Ivan

U have proven yourself to be a deadset w**ker
Last edited by wt01 on Mon 08 Oct, 2018 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Cultured Bogan » Mon 08 Oct, 2018 11:09 am

wt01 wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 10:37 am
Congratulations Our Dearest Ivan

U have proven yourself to be a deadset w**ker
Might want to change your avatar old son.
#penaltyTigers

Cuando llegue el día, y estoy parado a las puertas del cielo, será Dios pidiendo mi perdón...

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Post by Cairnstigers » Mon 08 Oct, 2018 11:52 am

Ivan

Please move closer to the screen to read

giphy-1.gif
giphy-1.gif (199.65 KiB) Viewed 329 times

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Post by WT2K » Mon 08 Oct, 2018 11:58 am

Cairnstigers wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 11:52 am
Ivan

Please move closer to the screen to read


giphy-1.gif
:lol:
No more plodders!
:sign:

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