Memo to Ivan Cleary

Wests Tigers Discussion
goldcoast tiger
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Re: Memo to Ivan Cleary

Post by goldcoast tiger » Mon 08 Oct, 2018 9:31 pm

851 wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 4:39 pm
batboy wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 8:17 am
Tarl wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:43 pm
Honestly, it's illuminating at how thin-skinned and sensitive we all are.

In the real world, if you had plans of changing employers in 2 years or when your contract runs out, do you think the boss and your fellow employees would tell you to leave now? Would they get so offended that you want to work for a different company and call you names?

This is one of the modern issues with Western society, we are too readily offended and almost eager to be outraged.

Until he's gone IC is our coach. Afterwards, whenever that happens to be, go hard. But until then a dose of reality may do wonders!

*[sound of me getting off my high-horse and leaving the room]
You’ve obviously never held a job with any level of importance...
I can assure you in the industry I’m in - if you declare at any point, that you are to be employed by a competing firm... you’re generally escorted off the premises, regardless of how much notice you give
That is the real world that you describe, if I leave my job I can't work for a competitor for 12 months, so you are bang on, and Cleary has gone past the workable situation now to untenable
You are comparing Apples with oranges.
Your contract obviously has a clause in it , that says that you have to abide by that clause.

Coaches DONT have such a clause in them , so a coach can sign any contract that he likes ,even if Its two or three years ahead , he’s entitled to do that, if it’s what he wishes , and he can get a Club that also wants it


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Post by Donald Trump » Mon 08 Oct, 2018 9:47 pm

The Patriot wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 4:45 pm
batboy wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 8:17 am
Tarl wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:43 pm
Honestly, it's illuminating at how thin-skinned and sensitive we all are.

In the real world, if you had plans of changing employers in 2 years or when your contract runs out, do you think the boss and your fellow employees would tell you to leave now? Would they get so offended that you want to work for a different company and call you names?

This is one of the modern issues with Western society, we are too readily offended and almost eager to be outraged.

Until he's gone IC is our coach. Afterwards, whenever that happens to be, go hard. But until then a dose of reality may do wonders!

*[sound of me getting off my high-horse and leaving the room]
You’ve obviously never held a job with any level of importance...
I can assure you in the industry I’m in - if you declare at any point, that you are to be employed by a competing firm... you’re generally escorted off the premises, regardless of how much notice you give
OMG Please post more.

This forum could really benefit from this type of reality based posting.

One of the best and most concise posts ive read on the whole debate.
Agreed.
Let's make the Tigers great again!

happy tiger
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Post by happy tiger » Mon 08 Oct, 2018 9:47 pm

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 9:31 pm
851 wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 4:39 pm
batboy wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 8:17 am
Tarl wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:43 pm
Honestly, it's illuminating at how thin-skinned and sensitive we all are.

In the real world, if you had plans of changing employers in 2 years or when your contract runs out, do you think the boss and your fellow employees would tell you to leave now? Would they get so offended that you want to work for a different company and call you names?

This is one of the modern issues with Western society, we are too readily offended and almost eager to be outraged.

Until he's gone IC is our coach. Afterwards, whenever that happens to be, go hard. But until then a dose of reality may do wonders!

*[sound of me getting off my high-horse and leaving the room]
You’ve obviously never held a job with any level of importance...
I can assure you in the industry I’m in - if you declare at any point, that you are to be employed by a competing firm... you’re generally escorted off the premises, regardless of how much notice you give
That is the real world that you describe, if I leave my job I can't work for a competitor for 12 months, so you are bang on, and Cleary has gone past the workable situation now to untenable
You are comparing Apples with oranges.
Your contract obviously has a clause in it , that says that you have to abide by that clause.

Coaches DONT have such a clause in them , so a coach can sign any contract that he likes ,even if Its two or three years ahead , he’s entitled to do that, if it’s what he wishes , and he can get a Club that also wants it
Many jobs have had them but restriction of trade laws has changed these contracts greatly

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Tue 09 Oct, 2018 3:17 am

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 9:31 pm
851 wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 4:39 pm
batboy wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 8:17 am
Tarl wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:43 pm
Honestly, it's illuminating at how thin-skinned and sensitive we all are.

In the real world, if you had plans of changing employers in 2 years or when your contract runs out, do you think the boss and your fellow employees would tell you to leave now? Would they get so offended that you want to work for a different company and call you names?

This is one of the modern issues with Western society, we are too readily offended and almost eager to be outraged.
8
Until he's gone IC is our coach. Afterwards, whenever that happens to be, go hard. But until then a dose of reality may do wonders!

*[sound of me getting off my high-horse and leaving the room]
You’ve obviously never held a job with any level of importance...
I can assure you in the industry I’m in - if you declare at any point, that you are to be employed by a competing firm... you’re generally escorted off the premises, regardless of how much notice you give
That is the real world that you describe, if I leave my job I can't work for a competitor for 12 months, so you are bang on, and Cleary has gone past the workable situation now to untenable
You are comparing Apples with oranges.
Your contract obviously has a clause in it , that says that you have to abide by that clause.

Coaches DONT have such a clause in them , so a coach can sign any contract that he likes ,even if Its two or three years ahead , he’s entitled to do that, if it’s what he wishes , and he can get a Club that also wants it
By the way 851, have you found your dictionary and looked up “We “yet ?
Remember , not “i “or even “wee”
Still working on that apology are you .??

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Post by Telltails » Tue 09 Oct, 2018 4:24 am

happy tiger wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 9:47 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 9:31 pm
851 wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 4:39 pm
batboy wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 8:17 am


You’ve obviously never held a job with any level of importance...
I can assure you in the industry I’m in - if you declare at any point, that you are to be employed by a competing firm... you’re generally escorted off the premises, regardless of how much notice you give
That is the real world that you describe, if I leave my job I can't work for a competitor for 12 months, so you are bang on, and Cleary has gone past the workable situation now to untenable
You are comparing Apples with oranges.
Your contract obviously has a clause in it , that says that you have to abide by that clause.

Coaches DONT have such a clause in them , so a coach can sign any contract that he likes ,even if Its two or three years ahead , he’s entitled to do that, if it’s what he wishes , and he can get a Club that also wants it
Many jobs have had them but restriction of trade laws has changed these contracts greatly
The way I see it is 99.9% of NRL coaches are trying to retain one coaching job by focussing on the job at hand rather than trying to line up another one two years in advance, like our current coach. Its unheard of because I
guess its a position most coaches and clubs would not aspire to be in, whether its legal or not.


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Post by Pawsandclaws » Tue 09 Oct, 2018 5:29 am

Telltails wrote:
Tue 09 Oct, 2018 4:24 am
happy tiger wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 9:47 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 9:31 pm
851 wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 4:39 pm


That is the real world that you describe, if I leave my job I can't work for a competitor for 12 months, so you are bang on, and Cleary has gone past the workable situation now to untenable
You are comparing Apples with oranges.
Your contract obviously has a clause in it , that says that you have to abide by that clause.

Coaches DONT have such a clause in them , so a coach can sign any contract that he likes ,even if Its two or three years ahead , he’s entitled to do that, if it’s what he wishes , and he can get a Club that also wants it
Many jobs have had them but restriction of trade laws has changed these contracts greatly
The way I see it is 99.9% of NRL coaches are trying to retain one coaching job by focussing on the job at hand rather than trying to line up another one two years in advance, like our current coach. Its unheard of because I
guess its a position most coaches and clubs would not aspire to be in, whether its legal or not.
That's my view as well.

I'm a Cleary supporter but was concerned about the reaction of Pascoe. Obviously something was discussed at the meeting which he believed threatened the operation of WTs. I went back and read the reports which included Gould's comments about the need to sack Griffin immediately because Ivan was about to talk to Tigers' management. The question which immediately arises is why the haste to sack Griffin unless some kind of agreement was already in place?

Also reports at the time suggested a 4 year deal ending in 2022 was offered by the Panthers but history has since been re-written for the contract to commence from 2021.

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Post by southerntiger » Tue 09 Oct, 2018 6:13 am

happy tiger wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 9:47 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 9:31 pm
851 wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 4:39 pm
batboy wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 8:17 am


You’ve obviously never held a job with any level of importance...
I can assure you in the industry I’m in - if you declare at any point, that you are to be employed by a competing firm... you’re generally escorted off the premises, regardless of how much notice you give
That is the real world that you describe, if I leave my job I can't work for a competitor for 12 months, so you are bang on, and Cleary has gone past the workable situation now to untenable
You are comparing Apples with oranges.
Your contract obviously has a clause in it , that says that you have to abide by that clause.

Coaches DONT have such a clause in them , so a coach can sign any contract that he likes ,even if Its two or three years ahead , he’s entitled to do that, if it’s what he wishes , and he can get a Club that also wants it
Many jobs have had them but restriction of trade laws has changed these contracts greatly
Which restriction of trade laws are you referring to?

There is a common law rule (very old) that says restraints are void against public policy unless you can show a special reason (such as it being necessary to protect custom and goodwill of your business) why it would be valid in the circumstances.

There have been no statutory developments In NSW in this area for at least the last 20 years to my knowledge.

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Post by Tarl » Tue 09 Oct, 2018 2:43 pm

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 11:47 pm
Tarl wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 9:54 pm
batboy wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 8:17 am
Tarl wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:43 pm
Honestly, it's illuminating at how thin-skinned and sensitive we all are.

In the real world, if you had plans of changing employers in 2 years or when your contract runs out, do you think the boss and your fellow employees would tell you to leave now? Would they get so offended that you want to work for a different company and call you names?

This is one of the modern issues with Western society, we are too readily offended and almost eager to be outraged.

Until he's gone IC is our coach. Afterwards, whenever that happens to be, go hard. But until then a dose of reality may do wonders!

*[sound of me getting off my high-horse and leaving the room]
You’ve obviously never held a job with any level of importance...
I can assure you in the industry I’m in - if you declare at any point, that you are to be employed by a competing firm... you’re generally escorted off the premises, regardless of how much notice you give
You obviously keep fit by jumping to conclusions. No need for personal assertions that you know nothing about. All I'm saying is he has the right to look at other modes of employment (as do you). I guess we also have the right to be upset by that.
Maybe then you should get a better job , but then again, if they’d throw you out that easy, of course you’d have to be pretty stupid to tell them wouldn’t you,
As for my poor little insignificant job, I’m Self employed and have been since I finished my apprenticeship,over 50 yrs ago , and have been solely responsible for makeing my business not only survive but to be sucessful,
Despite thati, I’d be ever so thankful if you could give me some lessons on howto be Important to my business, as I’m desperate to gain from your obviously deep well of self importance :pray:
:roll
GCT, thank you for being part of this forum!

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851
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Post by 851 » Tue 09 Oct, 2018 10:10 pm

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Tue 09 Oct, 2018 3:17 am
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 9:31 pm
851 wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 4:39 pm
batboy wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 8:17 am


You’ve obviously never held a job with any level of importance...
I can assure you in the industry I’m in - if you declare at any point, that you are to be employed by a competing firm... you’re generally escorted off the premises, regardless of how much notice you give
That is the real world that you describe, if I leave my job I can't work for a competitor for 12 months, so you are bang on, and Cleary has gone past the workable situation now to untenable
You are comparing Apples with oranges.
Your contract obviously has a clause in it , that says that you have to abide by that clause.

Coaches DONT have such a clause in them , so a coach can sign any contract that he likes ,even if Its two or three years ahead , he’s entitled to do that, if it’s what he wishes , and he can get a Club that also wants it
By the way 851, have you found your dictionary and looked up “We “yet ?
Remember , not “i “or even “wee”
Still working on that apology are you .??
Why should I apologise to you, you beleived Ivan's statement, now you are saying Wayne is staying, you are easily convinced, I am not
Go hard or go home

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Post by happy tiger » Tue 09 Oct, 2018 10:24 pm

southerntiger wrote:
Tue 09 Oct, 2018 6:13 am
happy tiger wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 9:47 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 9:31 pm
851 wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 4:39 pm


That is the real world that you describe, if I leave my job I can't work for a competitor for 12 months, so you are bang on, and Cleary has gone past the workable situation now to untenable
You are comparing Apples with oranges.
Your contract obviously has a clause in it , that says that you have to abide by that clause.

Coaches DONT have such a clause in them , so a coach can sign any contract that he likes ,even if Its two or three years ahead , he’s entitled to do that, if it’s what he wishes , and he can get a Club that also wants it
Many jobs have had them but restriction of trade laws has changed these contracts greatly
Which restriction of trade laws are you referring to?

There is a common law rule (very old) that says restraints are void against public policy unless you can show a special reason (such as it being necessary to protect custom and goodwill of your business) why it would be valid in the circumstances.

There have been no statutory developments In NSW in this area for at least the last 20 years to my knowledge.
I'm not exactly sure where you come from career wise , but I was signing anti competitor contracts as a 21 year old

I would imagine now with our PC that laws are in place that it would be a restriction of your rights/(trade) for an employer to get you to sign any anti competitor contract and the chances an employer could enforce it if push came to shove in the court of law extremely unlikely

I'm a bush lawyer at best :D

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Post by supercoach » Tue 09 Oct, 2018 10:36 pm

Been trying to keep out of Clearygate for the past week. As nothing has happened or changed basically since day one. The thing I find unsettling is the lack of any dialogue from anyone involved in this saga.

In view of the constant speculation by the media, I would have thought Pascoe would have given a strong press release reaffirming the clubs position.

It seems the club has gone into lockdown mode and rightly or wrongly it is effecting the club in areas like recruitment and I guess memberships.

Anyway Pascoe, throw the punters a bone, the silient approch seldom works

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Post by GNR4LIFE » Tue 09 Oct, 2018 10:45 pm

As each day passes now, it’s becoming more and more likely he will be here for the start of the pre season, effectively meaning he will be here for at least 2019. Pre season starts in 3 weeks, so things will have to happen very very quickly for that to change.

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Post by TYGA » Tue 09 Oct, 2018 10:46 pm

supercoach wrote:
Tue 09 Oct, 2018 10:36 pm
Been trying to keep out of Clearygate for the past week. As nothing has happened or changed basically since day one. The thing I find unsettling is the lack of any dialogue from anyone involved in this saga.

In view of the constant speculation by the media, I would have thought Pascoe would have given a strong press release reaffirming the clubs position.

It seems the club has gone into lockdown mode and rightly or wrongly it is effecting the club in areas like recruitment and I guess memberships.

Anyway Pascoe, throw the punters a bone, the silient approch seldom works
The silence confirms Cleary is gone. WT have to keep their cards close to their chest as they have to sign a better coach Maguire or Bennett and maximise any buyout.

If he was staying they would have announced at a joint press conference as much. The chairman of Wests Group was quoted as saying ‘we were moving on but he didn’t know what we are moving on to’.

Cleary has to go irrespective of the replacement his position is untenable. Coaches can’t sign when under contract two years out and retain any credibility and or recruit and retain players.

Messy situation created by Cleary and played out through the media by Penrith.
It’s low but legal. Nothing can be done but improve our position by signing Bennett or Madge.

This will make or break Pascoe and Go. If they can’t get it done they will not make it as administrators. Through no fault of their own I might add.

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Post by Newtown » Tue 09 Oct, 2018 10:54 pm

I believe that so much more will be revealed on the first day of pre-season training when Cleary finally returns from his self imposed incognito sabbatical to expose himself to the NRL public.

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Tue 09 Oct, 2018 11:03 pm

851 wrote:
Tue 09 Oct, 2018 10:10 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Tue 09 Oct, 2018 3:17 am
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 9:31 pm
851 wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 4:39 pm


That is the real world that you describe, if I leave my job I can't work for a competitor for 12 months, so you are bang on, and Cleary has gone past the workable situation now to untenable
You are comparing Apples with oranges.
Your contract obviously has a clause in it , that says that you have to abide by that clause.

Coaches DONT have such a clause in them , so a coach can sign any contract that he likes ,even if Its two or three years ahead , he’s entitled to do that, if it’s what he wishes , and he can get a Club that also wants it
By the way 851, have you found your dictionary and looked up “We “yet ?
Remember , not “i “or even “wee”
Still working on that apology are you .??
Why should I apologise to you, you beleived Ivan's statement, now you are saying Wayne is staying, you are easily convinced, I am not
I’m not sure what you are on ,but it’s not good you, I’ve stated that Ivan Has said that he Will honour his contract here, That’s a Fact!! He did
And I’ve said that Bennett. Said last week at the presentation night, that WE will be Backin 2019.
Again FACT,, HE did
You said that that was a lie. And that Bennett didn’t say that he would be back, and would’ve said “I ‘d “ be back in that case
Wrong in both cases, I did not lie about anything and Bennett DID say that he would be back, that’s were your lack of comprehension of English let you down

Your excuse for not apologising to a fellow member is the biggest piece of BS that I’ve seen in a long time and says a lot about yourself
Opening your mouth and saying something stupid is one thing, but to run and hide behind another stupid post is another,
We all here have probably said stupid or careless junk at times , myself, probably more times that I would like, but I think and hope that I’ve apologised in every case, at least the ones where I was definetly wrong,
Maybe your reluctance to apologise is just your normal character.
Or just a cover up for your problems with the English Language, you really should get that dictionary,
It could save you from making other stupid statements like your last couple , but then again, maybe not!!

I

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Post by formerguest » Tue 09 Oct, 2018 11:32 pm

851 wrote:
Tue 09 Oct, 2018 10:10 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Tue 09 Oct, 2018 3:17 am
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 9:31 pm
851 wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 4:39 pm


That is the real world that you describe, if I leave my job I can't work for a competitor for 12 months, so you are bang on, and Cleary has gone past the workable situation now to untenable
You are comparing Apples with oranges.
Your contract obviously has a clause in it , that says that you have to abide by that clause.

Coaches DONT have such a clause in them , so a coach can sign any contract that he likes ,even if Its two or three years ahead , he’s entitled to do that, if it’s what he wishes , and he can get a Club that also wants it
By the way 851, have you found your dictionary and looked up “We “yet ?
Remember , not “i “or even “wee”
Still working on that apology are you .??
Why should I apologise to you, you beleived Ivan's statement, now you are saying Wayne is staying, you are easily convinced, I am not
I believed Ivan's statement as well, on more than one front. He did not lie, admitting to discussions with Penrith and made a half arsed commitment of intent to see out his contract. I also believed it to be a few days too late, well crafted and informatively very lacking. Then of course the lack of allowing questioning topped it off.

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Post by innsaneink » Wed 10 Oct, 2018 5:47 am

Newtown wrote:
Tue 09 Oct, 2018 10:54 pm
I believe that so much more will be revealed on the first day of pre-season training when Cleary finally returns from his self imposed incognito sabbatical to expose himself to the NRL public.
Weve had official articles about rookies promoted to the NRL squad, and new development players as well...not a peep or quote from the coach.
Memberships on sale tomorrow - it will be interesting to see the membership paraphenalia, blurbs and images and whether Cleary features in them

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Post by Tcat » Wed 10 Oct, 2018 7:13 am

Newtown wrote:
Tue 09 Oct, 2018 10:54 pm
I believe that so much more will be revealed on the first day of pre-season training when Cleary finally returns from his self imposed incognito sabbatical to expose himself to the NRL public.
If Cleary returns for pre-season training.

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