Changes need to be made

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stryker
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Re: Changes need to be made

Post by stryker » Sun 03 Apr, 2016 10:06 pm

I agree that we are poor at putting players on their backs consistently.
Just poking fun. Do it. I think you'll surprise us with the total.


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Post by happy tiger » Sun 03 Apr, 2016 10:13 pm

stryker wrote:I agree that we are poor at putting players on their backs consistently.
Just poking fun. Do it. I think you'll surprise us with the total.
I think the annoying for me is who we leave standing ,Prior Heighnington Bukuya etc

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Post by Geo. » Sun 03 Apr, 2016 10:25 pm

happy tiger wrote:I'm going to try and make a count when I finally re watch the game

But I'd like to know how many times the Tigers fail to put an attacker on the ground compared to the Sharks putting us down

We couldn't even put Heighington down , I reckon at least 3 times we left him standing
The idea is to hold the player up so the defensive line can get set all Clubs do it...Storm are the masters..it falls down when they offload tho...Sharkies had 15...

Putting the player down makes the ref's call move and we then get pinged for penalties when we don't Stryker is talking about not allowing to find their front which we also suck at ....

Anyhow this is about changes...minimal for me Edwards for Cherrington..
Wests Tigers don't need a Coach.. The playing group has taken over..

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Post by happy tiger » Sun 03 Apr, 2016 10:34 pm

Geo. wrote:
happy tiger wrote:I'm going to try and make a count when I finally re watch the game

But I'd like to know how many times the Tigers fail to put an attacker on the ground compared to the Sharks putting us down

We couldn't even put Heighington down , I reckon at least 3 times we left him standing
The idea is to hold the player up so the defensive line can get set all Clubs do it...Storm are the masters..it falls down when they offload tho...Sharkies had 15...

Putting the player down makes the ref's call move and we then get pinged for penalties when we don't Stryker is talking about not allowing to find their front which we also suck at ....

Anyhow this is about changes...minimal for me Edwards for Cherrington..
I understand that Geo , but we need to make sure they aren't still facing our tryline , Sharks had so many quick ptb's when they didn't go to ground

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Post by BornBlack&Gold » Mon 04 Apr, 2016 12:18 am

a few talking about discipline as a problem that needs changing, and rightly so. But i feel the main cause of this ill discipline is fatigue.
It was pointed out in one thread yesterday how we leak points after the 30 minute mark. Something is happening around that point every game so far this season.
It seems our boys can only go for 30 and are too buggered after that to compete. I feel this is THE most pressing issue that needs addressing.
The question is though, how do they fix that any time soon? How long would it take to fix a possible issue regarding the conditioning of an entire squad?


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Post by MightyMaggy » Mon 04 Apr, 2016 7:00 am

BornBlack&Gold wrote:a few talking about discipline as a problem that needs changing, and rightly so. But i feel the main cause of this ill discipline is fatigue.
It was pointed out in one thread yesterday how we leak points after the 30 minute mark. Something is happening around that point every game so far this season.
It seems our boys can only go for 30 and are too buggered after that to compete. I feel this is THE most pressing issue that needs addressing.
The question is though, how do they fix that any time soon? How long would it take to fix a possible issue regarding the conditioning of an entire squad?
Or is this because our best forwards are rotated off and our rather pitiful bench players are unable to defend as well as the starting players?
Maybe, JT needs to pick a better bench than the three hookers and lightweight forwards he currently ( and for the last two seasons) picks. When this happens our defensive effort drops off!

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Post by stevetiger » Mon 04 Apr, 2016 7:19 am

BornBlack&Gold wrote:a few talking about discipline as a problem that needs changing, and rightly so. But i feel the main cause of this ill discipline is fatigue.
It was pointed out in one thread yesterday how we leak points after the 30 minute mark. Something is happening around that point every game so far this season.
It seems our boys can only go for 30 and are too buggered after that to compete. I feel this is THE most pressing issue that needs addressing.
The question is though, how do they fix that any time soon? How long would it take to fix a possible issue regarding the conditioning of an entire squad?
I agree that fatigue plays a role but that doesn't mean that it's just conditioning. I think it's also the bench and how we've used our interchanges. I also think some of it is just dumb play.

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Post by Newtown » Mon 04 Apr, 2016 7:26 am

BornBlack&Gold wrote:a few talking about discipline as a problem that needs changing, and rightly so. But i feel the main cause of this ill discipline is fatigue.
It was pointed out in one thread yesterday how we leak points after the 30 minute mark. Something is happening around that point every game so far this season.
It seems our boys can only go for 30 and are too buggered after that to compete. I feel this is THE most pressing issue that needs addressing.
The question is though, how do they fix that any time soon? How long would it take to fix a possible issue regarding the conditioning of an entire squad?
The solution for this quite evident fatigue is very simple. The last couple of weeks we have had three hookers selected. In each of these matches one of these hookers, Cherrington, was used very sparingly. In fact two weeks ago he played less than10 minutes of the whole match. This is a terrible waste of resources brought on by Taylor who after Saturday's match wrongly blamed the team for being their own enemy. I say keep Farah and Halatau (who is a hooker second rower) drop Cherrington and bring in Joel Edwards who is a great tackler.

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Post by happy tiger » Mon 04 Apr, 2016 7:40 am

Newtown wrote:
BornBlack&Gold wrote:a few talking about discipline as a problem that needs changing, and rightly so. But i feel the main cause of this ill discipline is fatigue.
It was pointed out in one thread yesterday how we leak points after the 30 minute mark. Something is happening around that point every game so far this season.
It seems our boys can only go for 30 and are too buggered after that to compete. I feel this is THE most pressing issue that needs addressing.
The question is though, how do they fix that any time soon? How long would it take to fix a possible issue regarding the conditioning of an entire squad?
The solution for this quite evident fatigue is very simple. The last couple of weeks we have had three hookers selected. In each of these matches one of these hookers, Cherrington, was used very sparingly. In fact two weeks ago he played less than10 minutes of the whole match. This is a terrible waste of resources brought on by Taylor who after Saturday's match wrongly blamed the team for being their own enemy. I say keep Farah and Halatau (who is a hooker second rower) drop Cherrington and bring in Joel Edwards who is a great tackler.
It is as much mental strength as it is physical , they have proven that they can't maintain any performance over 80 minutes , we get a good 30 every week guaranteed

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Post by supercoach » Mon 04 Apr, 2016 8:30 am

Lack of discipline has been our main problems for years and as Happy Tiger said that all comes from lack of mental strength. When under the pump instead of digging deep and keeping to the structures they make a brain dead play and piggy back the other mob down the field and that results in more tackling and the fatigue sets in. Okay it would be great to have a high impact bench but discipline or should I say lack of discipline will destroy us again in 2016 like most other years

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Post by krayola » Mon 04 Apr, 2016 9:11 am

We're a forward or two short and we all knew it in the off-season. Sirro coming back will help and you'd assume Edwards will be picked soon, as that was the plan at the start of the year before his injury. Ive been critical of Taylor's subs though...he's been leaving some players out there way too long and not using others enough. Perhaps Elijah Taylor will also help. This side has similarities to '05 in some regards and that team was very inconsistent for half a season.
One of my sources is Pascoe

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Post by Balmain Boy » Mon 04 Apr, 2016 11:17 am

Lovett has to go for Edwards. We can't carry this muppet any more. He needs to deserve his spot which he doesn't. His penalties are costing us 1-2 tires every game. Most of them are soft and totally pointless penalties too.

Our left hand attack is so pedestrian its a joke. Brooks, Lovett, Simona and Rankin? None of them have shown any ability to attack all season. How many breaks/points have come down this wing? I think one try all season. Simona did score a support play try against the warriors which doesn't count. Rankin fell over the try line in one game. That's it.

Addo Carr needs to come in. His defence has been good in the matches i've seen him in, even if he had a poor game on the weekend. But it's also not easy to look good playing outside Milone. This guy can't attack or defence to save himself. His desperation in defence and ability to run down opponents, and hit the ball up with venom would also be a big plus. Rankin is slow and constantly out of position. He could have scored 3-4 tries by now but he simply doesn't know where to stand when he's playing wing! I don't think he's an awful player, but he's simply not a winger, and playing him there makes him look worse than he really is.

Aloiai proably needs to be dropped to. Hasn't really offered much this season. Looks confused whether he's a prop or back rower. Runs like a prop, doesn't look like breaking the line. A few 80 min games in NSW Cup will help.

Playing Cherry for 5 mins a game is pointless too. Either he plays at least 20, or he plays nsw cup. Zero point playing 5 mins, he won't develop and he can't do anything in such little time.

Lovett > Edwards
Aloiai > Chee Kam
Cherrington > Griffin/J Grant?
Rankin > Addo Carr

At least 2 of these must be made this week. There's nothing dramatic about them. It's about players having to play well to keep their spots. Or get game time in order to further develop as a player.

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Post by Newtown » Mon 04 Apr, 2016 12:02 pm

happy tiger wrote:
Newtown wrote:
BornBlack&Gold wrote:a few talking about discipline as a problem that needs changing, and rightly so. But i feel the main cause of this ill discipline is fatigue.
It was pointed out in one thread yesterday how we leak points after the 30 minute mark. Something is happening around that point every game so far this season.
It seems our boys can only go for 30 and are too buggered after that to compete. I feel this is THE most pressing issue that needs addressing.
The question is though, how do they fix that any time soon? How long would it take to fix a possible issue regarding the conditioning of an entire squad?
The solution for this quite evident fatigue is very simple. The last couple of weeks we have had three hookers selected. In each of these matches one of these hookers, Cherrington, was used very sparingly. In fact two weeks ago he played less than10 minutes of the whole match. This is a terrible waste of resources brought on by Taylor who after Saturday's match wrongly blamed the team for being their own enemy. I say keep Farah and Halatau (who is a hooker second rower) drop Cherrington and bring in Joel Edwards who is a great tackler.
It is as much mental strength as it is physical , they have proven that they can't maintain any performance over 80 minutes , we get a good 30 every week guaranteed
Physical fatigue due to a very poor bench together with its poor rotation brings on mental fatigue for the remaining players who have been overburdened by the inadequate bench Jason Taylor keeps selecting. Cowboys play two hookers, each of whom are fast and can really tackle. Of the three hookers Taylor has been selecting only Farah has each of these two important attributes but he has returned from a spell and may still not be fully fit.

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Post by happy tiger » Mon 04 Apr, 2016 12:14 pm

Balmain Boy wrote:Lovett has to go for Edwards. We can't carry this muppet any more. He needs to deserve his spot which he doesn't. His penalties are costing us 1-2 tires every game. Most of them are soft and totally pointless penalties too.

Our left hand attack is so pedestrian its a joke. Brooks, Lovett, Simona and Rankin? None of them have shown any ability to attack all season. How many breaks/points have come down this wing? I think one try all season. Simona did score a support play try against the warriors which doesn't count. Rankin fell over the try line in one game. That's it.

Addo Carr needs to come in. His defence has been good in the matches i've seen him in, even if he had a poor game on the weekend. But it's also not easy to look good playing outside Milone. This guy can't attack or defence to save himself. His desperation in defence and ability to run down opponents, and hit the ball up with venom would also be a big plus. Rankin is slow and constantly out of position. He could have scored 3-4 tries by now but he simply doesn't know where to stand when he's playing wing! I don't think he's an awful player, but he's simply not a winger, and playing him there makes him look worse than he really is.

Aloiai proably needs to be dropped to. Hasn't really offered much this season. Looks confused whether he's a prop or back rower. Runs like a prop, doesn't look like breaking the line. A few 80 min games in NSW Cup will help.

Playing Cherry for 5 mins a game is pointless too. Either he plays at least 20, or he plays nsw cup. Zero point playing 5 mins, he won't develop and he can't do anything in such little time.

Lovett > Edwards
Aloiai > Chee Kam
Cherrington > Griffin/J Grant?
Rankin > Addo Carr

At least 2 of these must be made this week. There's nothing dramatic about them. It's about players having to play well to keep their spots. Or get game time in order to further develop as a player.
One problem , if JAC struggles in NSW Cup he will get destroyed at NRL level

Why does everyone look at these speedsters the club has brought over the years hoping their defence will improve as the next Eric Grothe Senior ??

Taqele Naiyavero , Grant might have been quick and big , but if you can't defend you are about as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike

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Post by Curaeus » Mon 04 Apr, 2016 12:24 pm

Doesn't matter who we put on the field. Until we get rid of the indiscipline that seems to afflict our guys in just about every game, we are on a path to nowhere. You just can't keep giving the other mob a leg up or build momentum in a game giving away stupid penalties

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Post by Balmain Boy » Mon 04 Apr, 2016 12:35 pm

happy tiger wrote:
Balmain Boy wrote:Lovett has to go for Edwards. We can't carry this muppet any more. He needs to deserve his spot which he doesn't. His penalties are costing us 1-2 tires every game. Most of them are soft and totally pointless penalties too.

Our left hand attack is so pedestrian its a joke. Brooks, Lovett, Simona and Rankin? None of them have shown any ability to attack all season. How many breaks/points have come down this wing? I think one try all season. Simona did score a support play try against the warriors which doesn't count. Rankin fell over the try line in one game. That's it.

Addo Carr needs to come in. His defence has been good in the matches i've seen him in, even if he had a poor game on the weekend. But it's also not easy to look good playing outside Milone. This guy can't attack or defence to save himself. His desperation in defence and ability to run down opponents, and hit the ball up with venom would also be a big plus. Rankin is slow and constantly out of position. He could have scored 3-4 tries by now but he simply doesn't know where to stand when he's playing wing! I don't think he's an awful player, but he's simply not a winger, and playing him there makes him look worse than he really is.

Aloiai proably needs to be dropped to. Hasn't really offered much this season. Looks confused whether he's a prop or back rower. Runs like a prop, doesn't look like breaking the line. A few 80 min games in NSW Cup will help.

Playing Cherry for 5 mins a game is pointless too. Either he plays at least 20, or he plays nsw cup. Zero point playing 5 mins, he won't develop and he can't do anything in such little time.

Lovett > Edwards
Aloiai > Chee Kam
Cherrington > Griffin/J Grant?
Rankin > Addo Carr

At least 2 of these must be made this week. There's nothing dramatic about them. It's about players having to play well to keep their spots. Or get game time in order to further develop as a player.
One problem , if JAC struggles in NSW Cup he will get destroyed at NRL level

Why does everyone look at these speedsters the club has brought over the years hoping their defence will improve as the next Eric Grothe Senior ??

Taqele Naiyavero , Grant might have been quick and big , but if you can't defend you are about as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike
In the 3 matches i've seen of him this season his defence has been fine. No worse than Nofoaluma that's for sure and he get's a run every week purely for his attack and tackle breaking ability. His defence is average, and his inability to defuse a kick is incredibly worrying.

If some players can get a callup for attack, why can't others? We're weak on wingers. Nofo and Rankin are both average wingers and JAC is their equal. As equals he should play ahead of Rankin who literally doesn't know how to play on the wing.

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Post by happy tiger » Mon 04 Apr, 2016 12:43 pm

Balmain Boy wrote:
happy tiger wrote:
Balmain Boy wrote:Lovett has to go for Edwards. We can't carry this muppet any more. He needs to deserve his spot which he doesn't. His penalties are costing us 1-2 tires every game. Most of them are soft and totally pointless penalties too.

Our left hand attack is so pedestrian its a joke. Brooks, Lovett, Simona and Rankin? None of them have shown any ability to attack all season. How many breaks/points have come down this wing? I think one try all season. Simona did score a support play try against the warriors which doesn't count. Rankin fell over the try line in one game. That's it.

Addo Carr needs to come in. His defence has been good in the matches i've seen him in, even if he had a poor game on the weekend. But it's also not easy to look good playing outside Milone. This guy can't attack or defence to save himself. His desperation in defence and ability to run down opponents, and hit the ball up with venom would also be a big plus. Rankin is slow and constantly out of position. He could have scored 3-4 tries by now but he simply doesn't know where to stand when he's playing wing! I don't think he's an awful player, but he's simply not a winger, and playing him there makes him look worse than he really is.

Aloiai proably needs to be dropped to. Hasn't really offered much this season. Looks confused whether he's a prop or back rower. Runs like a prop, doesn't look like breaking the line. A few 80 min games in NSW Cup will help.

Playing Cherry for 5 mins a game is pointless too. Either he plays at least 20, or he plays nsw cup. Zero point playing 5 mins, he won't develop and he can't do anything in such little time.

Lovett > Edwards
Aloiai > Chee Kam
Cherrington > Griffin/J Grant?
Rankin > Addo Carr

At least 2 of these must be made this week. There's nothing dramatic about them. It's about players having to play well to keep their spots. Or get game time in order to further develop as a player.
One problem , if JAC struggles in NSW Cup he will get destroyed at NRL level

Why does everyone look at these speedsters the club has brought over the years hoping their defence will improve as the next Eric Grothe Senior ??

Taqele Naiyavero , Grant might have been quick and big , but if you can't defend you are about as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike
In the 3 matches i've seen of him this season his defence has been fine. No worse than Nofoaluma that's for sure and he get's a run every week purely for his attack and tackle breaking ability. His defence is average, and his inability to defuse a kick is incredibly worrying.

If some players can get a callup for attack, why can't others? We're weak on wingers. Nofo and Rankin are both average wingers and JAC is their equal. As equals he should play ahead of Rankin who literally doesn't know how to play on the wing.
But your comparing a bloke who is playing NSW Cup and never experienced NRL against players who have played NRL

And you are basically giving them an equal rating

The step up from NSW Cup to NRL is a big one

If we get to a situation later in the season when we are out of semi contention you give JAC a run or if he improves out of sight in NSW Cup maybe beforehand , but how many players do you see who are speed demons at lower levels that can't crack it at NRL level

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Post by Harvey » Mon 04 Apr, 2016 12:51 pm

If we are out of finals contention, I would like to look at some of the u/20's players. Felise, Tatuola, Karwhin, Masters

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