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senexx
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Re: Politics

Post by senexx » Mon 01 Feb, 2010 9:31 pm

Public Debate is a forum you could discuss all this in, if you're serious.
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Post by stryker » Mon 01 Feb, 2010 9:43 pm

Heres my two cents.....Labor gov's - no matter in what capacity they exist all suffer from the same disease....they are all spend thrifts.

I feel sorry for all the young people of this country who got on the kevin 07 bandwagon and threw out a government who had us going in the right direction. They all thought they were so cool wearing sloganistic tee shirts and chanting the lines written by the greedy union officials. Some are only just starting to realise now...probably because they have grown up a bit, or finally joined the work force, that they have made a very serious blunder that they are going to be the victims of in the years to come.

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Post by Kul » Mon 01 Feb, 2010 9:59 pm

agreed

but that's how the best elections are won buddy; marketing!

I've always maintained that, at the end of the day, as long as the best government gets in then we'll be right. Obviously it's hard to define best, but either way we are very lucky that both alternatives are generally going to at least manage the country fairly.

It's sad that our democracy has shifted more towards a presidential-style election where the leader is the most important thing. True democracy is when you vote for your local candidate. If we are just going to vote for the leader then we may as well dump electorates and just have a run-off contest between the two leaders and who ever wins forms a governemnt

krudd sucks, but even as a member of the Liberal Party, i would never vote for Tony Abbott. I'm sorry, i just can't. It will be a protest vote from me in 2010/11
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Post by Yossarian » Mon 01 Feb, 2010 10:15 pm

Kul wrote:I'm not going to lie....

Malcolm Turnbull > Rudd

discuss
In my opinion? Not on any level - certainly not at playing politics. Utegate was just amateur hour. Howard would never have been stupid enough to drive down that blind alley...

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Post by smeghead » Mon 01 Feb, 2010 11:06 pm

For a society to get the best out of itself ideally the political governance should shift between the conservative and progressive parties. It is a fine line to tread but it works well when achieved.

Unfortunatley we are in a vacuum where both parties are shifting to the middle with the exception of issues of morality. This is of of the worst mistakes a democracy can make. If you want a government to set a moral agenda than you may as well give up now.

Church and State were seperated for a reason in modern democracy as it comes from the experience of watching the great pantheons of society fall to squabbles of morality in governance.

Back to the initial topic I have no real allegiance either way as I would categorise myself as socially progressive but ecconomically conservative.
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Post by Juro » Tue 02 Feb, 2010 9:09 am

I just get so sick of the stupid comments that all politicians come out with. Surely they know they are lying, but they also know that if they keep saying it, people will believe them.

Take for example the news last night. The intergenerational report comes out. Everyone knows that the ageing population is going to put significant pressure on our economy over the next 20 years and beyond. Then Abbott and co come out and say that Rudd is blaming old people for our country's problems. Where did he pull that from???

And I'm not specifically targetting the Liberals. Labor do it too, and to a lesser extent the minor parties do it too.
I've been a member since 2012. We last played finals football in 2011. Just saying...

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Post by smeghead » Tue 02 Feb, 2010 9:18 am

My pet hate is the Greens party.
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Post by tigerdre » Tue 02 Feb, 2010 9:47 am

smeghead wrote:My pet hate is the Greens party.
Yeah bloody hippies :!:
If it wasn't for the greens LO would have been re-developed years ago

In my opinion,like most have said, there is not much differnce between the Libs & NEO Labor or Rudd Labor
Who ever we elect we are here to serve the NEO CONS who run the world bank anyway.
Aussie politics is a yawn.Keating was the last great politician we had.Geez at least he had charisma.Everyone after him have had no personality whats so ever

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Post by hammertime » Tue 02 Feb, 2010 12:09 pm

I'm happy the true colors of Rudd are starting to show. I used to work down on the federal budget in Canberra, and Howard was bloody good. He was always trying to find cost savings and better ways of doing things. Rudd on the other hand, is extremely egotistical and does what is good for him, not the nation.

You just need to look at the way both parties tackled the inter generational issue. Howard paid down debt, built a future fund and tried to raise birth rates (future taxpayers) through the baby bonus (which unknown to may people was the intention of the scheme). Rudd has plunged us into debt by spending on stimulus which was ill targeted. He could have easily spent in on helping the states with hospital infrastructure to reduce our future medical costs or invested in green technology. Now all that money is gone, and we have little to show for it. The staggering statistics are that we now have 1 retiree for every 9 taxpayers, in the future, that changes to 1 to 3.

The reason why he spent it on school halls is because he gets a nice plaque outside saying 'thank you labor' which we will see each time we go to vote - after all, school halls are usually where it's done!.. and the cash handouts were blatant pandering to the dumb masses. He has single handily ruined the future for Gen Y's and our kids after undoing the solid foundations Howard laid.

I really hope people see through him this election. Otherwise the kids of today do not have a bright future.

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Post by Yossarian » Tue 02 Feb, 2010 2:45 pm

hammertime wrote:I'm happy the true colors of Rudd are starting to show. I used to work down on the federal budget in Canberra, and Howard was bloody good. He was always trying to find cost savings and better ways of doing things. Rudd on the other hand, is extremely egotistical and does what is good for him, not the nation.

You just need to look at the way both parties tackled the inter generational issue. Howard paid down debt, built a future fund and tried to raise birth rates (future taxpayers) through the baby bonus (which unknown to may people was the intention of the scheme). Rudd has plunged us into debt by spending on stimulus which was ill targeted. He could have easily spent in on helping the states with hospital infrastructure to reduce our future medical costs or invested in green technology. Now all that money is gone, and we have little to show for it. The staggering statistics are that we now have 1 retiree for every 9 taxpayers, in the future, that changes to 1 to 3.

The reason why he spent it on school halls is because he gets a nice plaque outside saying 'thank you labor' which we will see each time we go to vote - after all, school halls are usually where it's done!.. and the cash handouts were blatant pandering to the dumb masses. He has single handily ruined the future for Gen Y's and our kids after undoing the solid foundations Howard laid.

I really hope people see through him this election. Otherwise the kids of today do not have a bright future.
You could at least do an authorisation if you're going to do paid politicals for Howard. It's easy to pay down debt during good times - it's how economics works. Fact is he was sitting on the biggest resources boom of all time and he wasted most of it on election sweetners when he should have been spending it on infrastructure. I'm disappointed Rudd isn't spending more on big picture items but at least a school hall is better than giving eveyone a $5 a week tax cut.

Howard was a master politician but you make him out to be FDR... Do you forget the massive budget deficit he left in 1983? He was just a smart operator not an economics giant.

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Post by hammertime » Tue 02 Feb, 2010 4:13 pm

Yossarian wrote:
hammertime wrote:I'm happy the true colors of Rudd are starting to show. I used to work down on the federal budget in Canberra, and Howard was bloody good. He was always trying to find cost savings and better ways of doing things. Rudd on the other hand, is extremely egotistical and does what is good for him, not the nation.

You just need to look at the way both parties tackled the inter generational issue. Howard paid down debt, built a future fund and tried to raise birth rates (future taxpayers) through the baby bonus (which unknown to may people was the intention of the scheme). Rudd has plunged us into debt by spending on stimulus which was ill targeted. He could have easily spent in on helping the states with hospital infrastructure to reduce our future medical costs or invested in green technology. Now all that money is gone, and we have little to show for it. The staggering statistics are that we now have 1 retiree for every 9 taxpayers, in the future, that changes to 1 to 3.

The reason why he spent it on school halls is because he gets a nice plaque outside saying 'thank you labor' which we will see each time we go to vote - after all, school halls are usually where it's done!.. and the cash handouts were blatant pandering to the dumb masses. He has single handily ruined the future for Gen Y's and our kids after undoing the solid foundations Howard laid.

I really hope people see through him this election. Otherwise the kids of today do not have a bright future.
You could at least do an authorisation if you're going to do paid politicals for Howard. It's easy to pay down debt during good times - it's how economics works. Fact is he was sitting on the biggest resources boom of all time and he wasted most of it on election sweetners when he should have been spending it on infrastructure. I'm disappointed Rudd isn't spending more on big picture items but at least a school hall is better than giving eveyone a $5 a week tax cut.

Howard was a master politician but you make him out to be FDR... Do you forget the massive budget deficit he left in 1983? He was just a smart operator not an economics giant.
hahaha, not a Howard pusher. I just like leaders who aren't narrow minded. I actually voted for Rudd! He just turned out to disappoint.

A school hall is better than a tax cut? Maybe, if we needed them. I don't know if you have heard the same stories I have about schools getting a second hall built, but still have dilapidated toilet blocks. Also, this' 21st century' library option? Seriously, a 21st century library is giving the kids a Google book subscription to go with their free laptops.

Howard wasn't the finance man, the majority is attributable to Costello. Do you realize that our current treasurer holds an ARTS degree, public administration? He has no qualifications in economics what so ever.

Election sweeteners? I'm guessing you are talking tax cuts and the baby bonus? Sound economic policy to me. One increases jobs, the other produces further tax payers and helps women take time off work. Other surplus funds were used to pay down debt, cover the governments super liabilities and create the future fund.

Yep, I agree that it was easy for Costello and Howard to spend correctly during the good times. But it was also easy for Rudd to spend during a downturn too, perfect excuse to go nuts. He just should have spent it correctly. Hospital/Environment/Transport infrastructure should have been the focus. All of it can be targeted toward communities that need the stimulus too.

With the baby boomers getting closer to retirement, a fiber network (which has no business case developed), cash 'loans', school halls, pension increases and home buyers grants that push up the prices is just political pandering and down right stupid with this massive problem looming. I really think the kids of today are in for a very hard slog covering the govt debt repayments, medical costs, pensions, environmental costs etc.. some of it should have been covered for them. We are faulting on our responsibilities for short term gain.

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Post by Geo. » Tue 02 Feb, 2010 4:29 pm

I know at my School we are getting a two storey State of the Art Science Building...additional Computer Labs and refit of some of the existing classrooms..from the stimulus..bit more beneficial than a school hall......

Oh and the old science labs have already been turned into a fully fitted out Gym.....just in time for Rugby League season.....look out MCS.....thanks K. Rudd......
Wayne Train 2019..

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Post by smeghead » Tue 02 Feb, 2010 4:47 pm

Sorry but for mine Howard did not spend correctly. In a truly ecconomic sense he made some correct moves but did so by selling off major government assets that turned substantial profits every single year. It was very much a quick fix solution and the effects of which will be felt for years to come.

But realistically the real problems of today cannot be solved in the political realm. It is the general attitude of society that has changed. Altruism in real terms rarely exists and it has moved very much to a "f#@! over anyone who stands in the way of my wants. This is a problem that needs a genuine collapse for things to change
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Post by hammertime » Tue 02 Feb, 2010 5:01 pm

True, he did sell off assets, but have you seen Telstra's share price over the last 4 years? I'm glad he sold it. Plus, out telecommunications probably cost much less now than if Telstra had held their monopoly.

It's a good point smeg. It's funny to think how much stuff we have these days compared to 20 years ago. Everyone's expectations are so much higher. America has dug themselves a deep, deep hole from their excesses... Most of their future pensions are company based and unfunded. Add that to their current debt, and I think we have already seen the collapse. There is no way they will be able to live like they have any more.

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Post by smeghead » Tue 02 Feb, 2010 5:11 pm

Whilst ever there is profit to be made from the suffering (in varying degrees) of the masses than very little will change. Even after what has happened in the US they are resisiting any form of change and it is the people who let it go so very badly wrong who are being used as the main consultants for the rebuilding process. It is a very bleak future as things stand now and there is further to fall.

I had no problem with the breaking of Telstra's monopoly but long term I think it will be a bad assett to lose. In terms of actual income, even adjusted for inflation, Telstra is thriving. The share price is so low because too many shares were floated at a stupid price that people actually fell for. Between this and the private money tollways and State Government assetts like Power Plants being sold I just think it is a mistake.

At the very least there are intriguing times ahead
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Post by alien » Tue 02 Feb, 2010 5:58 pm

I have an opinion about Kevin Dudd and Tony Abbott. They are both idiots but atleast Abbott blocked the ETS.

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Post by Yossarian » Tue 02 Feb, 2010 6:02 pm

Hammertime - Costello to my knowledge has a degree in arts/law - do you think being a lawyer is a better qualification to being treasurer than having a public administration degree? If so, why?

Tax cuts aren't sound economic policy when growth is high and inflation is pushing up interest rates. That is dumb policy and the only reason to do is to win an election.

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Post by Suzie-Q » Tue 02 Feb, 2010 10:53 pm

The worst thing about politics, is that no matter what party line you vote for, a bloody politician gets elected!

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