Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

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mike
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Re: Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

Post by mike » Fri 14 Dec, 2018 7:42 pm

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 14 Dec, 2018 6:55 pm
If you are the victim in the second trial and the accused walks free because of trial by media you'd be ropeable. You'd want justice for the wrongs against you even if the verdict and subsequent sentencing is considered academic.
I don’t believe that would be the case in this instance. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.
Western Suburbs supporter since 1960 | Balmain junior since 1967 | Wests Tigers supporter since 1999


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Post by Cultured Bogan » Fri 14 Dec, 2018 8:58 pm

I think we will mate.
Help me... I broke apart my insides,
Help me... I've got no soul to sell;
Help me... The only thing that works for me,
Help me get away from myself...

Cuando llegue el día, y estoy parado a las puertas del cielo, será Dios pidiendo mi perdón...

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Post by formerguest » Sat 15 Dec, 2018 1:00 am

Abraham wrote:
Wed 12 Dec, 2018 9:05 am
formerguest wrote:
Tue 11 Dec, 2018 8:39 pm
Abraham wrote:
Tue 11 Dec, 2018 12:55 pm
formerguest wrote:
Tue 11 Dec, 2018 12:48 pm


Certainly would as the emissions from many such a Chinese factory is from producing the excessive amount of goods consumed by 50 average Joe type families in their lifetime. Obviously, this makes our footprint considerably worse than the already three times per capita average produced on our shores, but unlike the ignorant, you already know that, so I was somewhat surprised to read that.
Not sure where your getting this from. On average a Chinese person now has the same carbon footprint as a European citizen. So no, our footprint is not worse, unless you are comparing us to African tribesman who spear their dinner and wash their clothes by smacking it on rocks down at the river. Is living a third world existence appealling to you?

We aren't going to agree on this, as you have your ideology firmly in place. Just don't expect it to lower the sea levels anytime soon.
Not ideology, an opinion based on facts, some of which you ignored when replying above, as per capita emissions are totally different to a carbon footprint. I have spent a short time amongst those living a third world existence and thoroughly enjoyed my time there, as I always do when visiting villages in developing countries, so I suggest you trek to a remote village to sample for yourself.
The self aggrandizement is thick in this post. I just wonder to myself , if you thoroughly enjoyed your poverty tourism so much, then why did you come back to your first world lifestyle in Australia?

I don't need to trek anywhere to sample other people's suffering, because that was my family a generation ago.

I shouldn't need to point out that living a third world existence is not a goal for any person. Especially those living actually it, and not just ducking in to pat themselves on the back.

If you want to reduce your carbon footprint by heating a tin of baked beans over a burning pile of leaves for dinner, then go for it. I prefer my air conditioning, my flushing toilet, my on-demand hot water, and the carbon footprint that goes with it.

And guess what, so does literally every other person alive today. That's why no-one sets a goal to become poverty stricken.
Yes, I am proud to spend time with those that are not ruining our shared planet and have spoken to my wife about living a simpler life after our son finishes his education, but you brought it up, not me and once again it is simply another fact.

Conversely, last night we went shopping and I ate in a food court for the first time in many years and was disgusted by what I saw. The amount of packaging was absolutely ridiculous and was the perfect example of just how wrong we as the supposed advanced of our species have become. The good thing is that whilst my son does not yet have a reasonable understanding of what a carbon footprint is, he said to me, "that is why we have islands of plastic and rubbish forming in our oceans".

He also said that he would eat at home or elsewhere next time and tell his mother that easy dinner is not good, which is an example of an individual making a difference. To your other post, no, I do not expect everyone to live a third world existence and don't think anywhere near that level is required, but I certainly expect a lot more effort from many in our community and particularly those such as yourself and our government.

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Post by formerguest » Sat 15 Dec, 2018 1:24 am

magpiecol wrote:
Wed 12 Dec, 2018 1:55 pm
formerguest wrote:
Wed 12 Dec, 2018 7:05 am
magpiecol wrote:
Tue 11 Dec, 2018 10:50 pm
formerguest wrote:
Tue 11 Dec, 2018 8:39 pm


Not ideology, an opinion based on facts, some of which you ignored when replying above, as per capita emissions are totally different to a carbon footprint. I have spent a short time amongst those living a third world existence and thoroughly enjoyed my time there, as I always do when visiting villages in developing countries, so I suggest you trek to a remote village to sample for yourself.
How was the plumbing?

:brick:
Obviously archaic and probably nearly as much so as the thinking of the guy which you see reflected in a mirror.
Ah the personal attack. No facts to argue so let's just denigrate someone who doesn't agree with you.

Deniers are bad people, who don't care about the planet as much as us believers.

:deadhorse:
I don't think that you are a bad person Col, many other things, but not bad.

Facts, they are the things that you very, very rarely, if ever provide and mine are shown in the posts prior to that which you have quoted above. Come out from behind one of the few prototype sections of wall that your mate has arranged to be erected and argue against them by all means if you want to, but there is only one truth and that is why they have not been disputed by other figures. If you have a case to put forward, how about just a little substance to go with your favourite colourful characters that you so often click on.

As for personal attacks, you quoted me with a wise crack and this :brick: to begin with, and what on earth do you think one of your commonly used :crazy icons means?

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Post by GNR4LIFE » Sat 15 Dec, 2018 8:45 am

formerguest wrote:
Sat 15 Dec, 2018 1:24 am
magpiecol wrote:
Wed 12 Dec, 2018 1:55 pm
formerguest wrote:
Wed 12 Dec, 2018 7:05 am
magpiecol wrote:
Tue 11 Dec, 2018 10:50 pm


How was the plumbing?

:brick:
Obviously archaic and probably nearly as much so as the thinking of the guy which you see reflected in a mirror.
Ah the personal attack. No facts to argue so let's just denigrate someone who doesn't agree with you.

Deniers are bad people, who don't care about the planet as much as us believers.

:deadhorse:
I don't think that you are a bad person Col, many other things, but not bad.

Facts, they are the things that you very, very rarely, if ever provide and mine are shown in the posts prior to that which you have quoted above. Come out from behind one of the few prototype sections of wall that your mate has arranged to be erected and argue against them by all means if you want to, but there is only one truth and that is why they have not been disputed by other figures. If you have a case to put forward, how about just a little substance to go with your favourite colourful characters that you so often click on.

As for personal attacks, you quoted me with a wise crack and this :brick: to begin with, and what on earth do you think one of your commonly used :crazy icons means?
Haha. The irony is lost, no doubt. There isn’t anyone on this forum, so sure of themselves, yet unable to back up the majority of their claims. Like Trump, derides the intelligence of others and believes that is what wins the argument.


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Post by willow » Sat 15 Dec, 2018 10:43 am

Cut the crap or I'll close the thread.

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Post by InBenjiWeTrust » Sat 15 Dec, 2018 11:10 am

an alternative view on the AGW BS religion :bash

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Post by Cultured Bogan » Sat 15 Dec, 2018 1:07 pm

Hey Col how's that link going to show that the wall is being built?
Help me... I broke apart my insides,
Help me... I've got no soul to sell;
Help me... The only thing that works for me,
Help me get away from myself...

Cuando llegue el día, y estoy parado a las puertas del cielo, será Dios pidiendo mi perdón...

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Post by magpiecol » Sun 16 Dec, 2018 10:37 am

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Sat 15 Dec, 2018 1:07 pm
Hey Col how's that link going to show that the wall is being built?
I apologize cb, the current wall is being upgraded, not a new wall being built.

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Post by Abraham » Mon 17 Dec, 2018 8:40 am

formerguest wrote:
Sat 15 Dec, 2018 1:00 am
Abraham wrote:
Wed 12 Dec, 2018 9:05 am
formerguest wrote:
Tue 11 Dec, 2018 8:39 pm
Abraham wrote:
Tue 11 Dec, 2018 12:55 pm


Not sure where your getting this from. On average a Chinese person now has the same carbon footprint as a European citizen. So no, our footprint is not worse, unless you are comparing us to African tribesman who spear their dinner and wash their clothes by smacking it on rocks down at the river. Is living a third world existence appealling to you?

We aren't going to agree on this, as you have your ideology firmly in place. Just don't expect it to lower the sea levels anytime soon.
Not ideology, an opinion based on facts, some of which you ignored when replying above, as per capita emissions are totally different to a carbon footprint. I have spent a short time amongst those living a third world existence and thoroughly enjoyed my time there, as I always do when visiting villages in developing countries, so I suggest you trek to a remote village to sample for yourself.
The self aggrandizement is thick in this post. I just wonder to myself , if you thoroughly enjoyed your poverty tourism so much, then why did you come back to your first world lifestyle in Australia?

I don't need to trek anywhere to sample other people's suffering, because that was my family a generation ago.

I shouldn't need to point out that living a third world existence is not a goal for any person. Especially those living actually it, and not just ducking in to pat themselves on the back.

If you want to reduce your carbon footprint by heating a tin of baked beans over a burning pile of leaves for dinner, then go for it. I prefer my air conditioning, my flushing toilet, my on-demand hot water, and the carbon footprint that goes with it.

And guess what, so does literally every other person alive today. That's why no-one sets a goal to become poverty stricken.
Yes, I am proud to spend time with those that are not ruining our shared planet and have spoken to my wife about living a simpler life after our son finishes his education, but you brought it up, not me and once again it is simply another fact.

Conversely, last night we went shopping and I ate in a food court for the first time in many years and was disgusted by what I saw. The amount of packaging was absolutely ridiculous and was the perfect example of just how wrong we as the supposed advanced of our species have become. The good thing is that whilst my son does not yet have a reasonable understanding of what a carbon footprint is, he said to me, "that is why we have islands of plastic and rubbish forming in our oceans".

He also said that he would eat at home or elsewhere next time and tell his mother that easy dinner is not good, which is an example of an individual making a difference. To your other post, no, I do not expect everyone to live a third world existence and don't think anywhere near that level is required, but I certainly expect a lot more effort from many in our community and particularly those such as yourself and our government.
You mention facts a lot in your posts.

So what facts show the level of reduction in consumption required to affect, say, a 0 degree increase in global temperature over the next century?

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Post by magpiecol » Mon 17 Dec, 2018 9:11 am

Fifty years ago, my wife was out protesting about global freezing. Guess what?

Here's a fact. Al Gore's home uses more energy in twelve months than mine does in twenty years . I guess he's not so much worried about global warming than flying around the world in private jets making money.

Hypocrite? You bet.

What is that old saying? Something about one being born every minute?

One of the best con jobs ever.

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Post by Cultured Bogan » Mon 17 Dec, 2018 9:18 am

Sorry Col, I'd take you seriously but you cannot substantiate anything you write.
Help me... I broke apart my insides,
Help me... I've got no soul to sell;
Help me... The only thing that works for me,
Help me get away from myself...

Cuando llegue el día, y estoy parado a las puertas del cielo, será Dios pidiendo mi perdón...

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Post by colmcd » Mon 17 Dec, 2018 11:04 am

mike wrote:
Fri 14 Dec, 2018 6:27 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 14 Dec, 2018 6:09 pm
mike wrote:
Fri 14 Dec, 2018 4:33 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Thu 13 Dec, 2018 3:30 pm


Yes, very interesting.

On a side note, anyone who posts anything that is contrary to said order will have their posts deleted.
I understand why the order was made but I think the judicial system has made a very poor and naive judgement. The world is very small now and information can no longer be contained within borders. It’s a very, very bad look.
From what I have heard, it was the prosecution that requested to suppression to avoid an impartiality decision on a separate case.
It was, but the reasons used are pretty poor in modern Australia. The population is big enough and diverse enough that it wouldn’t have been an issue. The request should have been refused by the judiciary. If it was the bloke down the road they would never have granted such a request and it would have been plastered across all media.
I just hate not knowing the exact legal "why".
if it is to support " impartiality" on a separate trial matter then I would understand. As I believe there were two events being pursued and the earlier events in the 1970's could be very hard to substantiate.
My own hunch was that inadmissible evidence got introduced, hence the grounds for appeal. It's insane that this 2 year trial has to get repeated again for another 2 years.

Overall I am actually shocked that a Jury found sufficient evidence to convict. I have had to change my own opinion of the person concerned and past acts are now reviewed in a darker light.

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Post by colmcd » Mon 17 Dec, 2018 11:18 am

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Mon 17 Dec, 2018 9:18 am
Sorry Col, I'd take you seriously but you cannot substantiate anything you write.
I know hey.

Couldn't we even have the token link too www.infowarrz.co.nk/bin/http/www.root/h ... -mine.http

I guess I will just have to google CNN and scroll past the current trump/russian arrests (Michael Cohen, guilty. Russian spy, pleads GUILTY) and see if they have anything on Al Gore's house.

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Post by Yossarian » Mon 17 Dec, 2018 11:27 am

Global Freezing? Wow they really buried that story...

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Post by Nelson » Mon 17 Dec, 2018 11:41 am

colmcd wrote:
Mon 17 Dec, 2018 11:04 am
mike wrote:
Fri 14 Dec, 2018 6:27 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 14 Dec, 2018 6:09 pm
mike wrote:
Fri 14 Dec, 2018 4:33 pm
I understand why the order was made but I think the judicial system has made a very poor and naive judgement. The world is very small now and information can no longer be contained within borders. It’s a very, very bad look.
From what I have heard, it was the prosecution that requested to suppression to avoid an impartiality decision on a separate case.
It was, but the reasons used are pretty poor in modern Australia. The population is big enough and diverse enough that it wouldn’t have been an issue. The request should have been refused by the judiciary. If it was the bloke down the road they would never have granted such a request and it would have been plastered across all media.
I just hate not knowing the exact legal "why".
if it is to support " impartiality" on a separate trial matter then I would understand. As I believe there were two events being pursued and the earlier events in the 1970's could be very hard to substantiate.
My own hunch was that inadmissible evidence got introduced, hence the grounds for appeal. It's insane that this 2 year trial has to get repeated again for another 2 years.

Overall I am actually shocked that a Jury found sufficient evidence to convict. I have had to change my own opinion of the person concerned and past acts are now reviewed in a darker light.
The legal "why" would be exactly what CB said. Generally in sexual assault matters involving multiple victims the prosecution would want, if possible, to have all the proceedings heard together so that they could rely upon either tendency (i.e. the accused had a tendency to act in a particular way or have a particular state of mind like a sexual interest in children) or coincidence reasoning (i.e. the unlikelihood of similar allegations arising against the same accused by different, unconnected people unless they were true). If the prosecution are not doing that in any case it's likely either because there has been an order made by the Court that they cannot or because the prosecution consider it so likely that the Court would make an order separating the trials that they don't try to have tendency or coincidence evidence admitted.

There is a high threshold for that kind of evidence to be admitted because it's likely to be "misused" in the legal sense (i.e. given more weight than it logically should carry because it triggers an emotive response). So say you have two sets of allegations which are to be run as Trial 1 and Trial 2 because tendency and coincidence evidence cannot be relied upon as between Trials 1 and 2 and say the proceedings have a significant media profile. Trial 1 runs and there is a conviction. If that conviction gets splashed all over the media then the jury pool for Trial 2 will be going into the matter armed with evidence that is inadmissible (the fact of the Trial 1 allegations and, worse, the fact of convictions on those).

That is why non-publication orders are sought in such matters. They might be seen as a bit futile in the new media age but the legal system has to at least try to preserve an accused's right to a fair trial and you can expect that the jury pool will be questioned as to whether or not they have heard anything about prior proceedings. The best answer is a judge alone trial but you can't force an accused to seek a judge alone trial - they have a right to trial by jury.

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Post by Pawsandclaws » Mon 17 Dec, 2018 8:41 pm

HMAS SloMo already in danger of sinking taking on more water courtesy of randy Andy.

https://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/art ... unior.html

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Post by Cultured Bogan » Mon 17 Dec, 2018 9:01 pm

Haha I read about that earlier today. What a chump...
Help me... I broke apart my insides,
Help me... I've got no soul to sell;
Help me... The only thing that works for me,
Help me get away from myself...

Cuando llegue el día, y estoy parado a las puertas del cielo, será Dios pidiendo mi perdón...

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