How do players improve back in ISP???

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patwalker
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How do players improve back in ISP???

Post by patwalker » Mon 12 Mar, 2018 5:53 pm

I see people all the time stating that Kev, Brooks and several other players need to go spend time in ISP to learn how to defend. For the life of me I cannot see how that can be productive? ISP is a massive step down in intensity, quality and in particular, defence. If anything, time back there would likely make their defence worse as the whole league seems based more on attack and loose scorelines. I may be wrong, I am certainly no expert on the game. It just doesn't make sense to me.


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Post by Earl » Mon 12 Mar, 2018 6:24 pm

They can work on getting that aspect of their play right at a lower level of intensity.

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Post by upthetigers » Mon 12 Mar, 2018 6:45 pm

Who said Brooks needs to improve his defense? I think that's the one aspect of his game he has improved in.

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Post by patwalker » Tue 13 Mar, 2018 7:12 am

I was just talking in general Upthetigers, I agree, he has been much better this year.
I just don't think it's a plausible idea. I'm all for dropping underperformers and I imagine that it would provide them with a big reality check that should make them try harder when they come back but as for actually improving their defence I just can't see it. They are playing against a much lower quality of competition and won't be taxed nearly as much so they may look like they are defending better.

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Post by Tiger Watto » Tue 13 Mar, 2018 8:07 am

In the past, our reserve grade structure has been miles apart from what is going on in NRL and depending on what needed to be worked, very little was achieved. Players can find form down there in terms of individual football skills like 'tackling' or 'finding the line' etc, but they are less chance of improving team dominant skills like 'defence' and 'concentration'. Good players can get to the point where ISP will achieve nothing for them and must do their apprenticeships in the NRL if they are going to improve. JJ Felise is a perfect example of this and if he cant get time in NRL, he should ask for a release to a club who will allow him this latitude.

Ultimately, Its up to the club to ensure our structures are similar in ISP if we want to use it as a workplace to send players too improve. Winning in reserve grade should be of very little interest to NRL clubs!
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The Patriot
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Post by The Patriot » Tue 13 Mar, 2018 8:56 am

patwalker wrote:
Mon 12 Mar, 2018 5:53 pm
I see people all the time stating that Kev, Brooks and several other players need to go spend time in ISP to learn how to defend. For the life of me I cannot see how that can be productive? ISP is a massive step down in intensity, quality and in particular, defence. If anything, time back there would likely make their defence worse as the whole league seems based more on attack and loose scorelines. I may be wrong, I am certainly no expert on the game. It just doesn't make sense to me.
I dont think people genuinely want them to go away and improve something. They just want them to go away. Its a throw away line.
Its an opinion!

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Post by Pawsandclaws » Tue 13 Mar, 2018 9:11 am

Firstly, there are only 17 positions in the NRL team, so a few will miss selection.

With a squad of 30, more players are now being exposed to the full time training regimes and the standard of competition in the ISP will lift.

In terms of defence, going back to basics in defence and relearning technique can be achieved in the ISP.

However, I am a bit cynical and suggest the ISP for established NRL players (such as Nofoaluma and SUe) is a market place where other clubs come to remedy deficiencies in their rosters. A look through Big League will confirm these two are probably the most experienced and talented in ISP. I would expect offers from other clubs (but I am a cynic).

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Post by Snake » Tue 13 Mar, 2018 10:05 am

ISP is a foundation for a player to show what he can offer the first grade team ... case in point Milne he just wants to wait until he gets a chance his performance on the weekend seems to point to this ..instead head down and the right attitude to stand out so the head coach has the option if need be .
The ISP team seems to be well coached it is also about winning the culture of winning it is not so much what you are taught it is the physiological effect of being in a position to succeed to the next level JJ Felise will get his turn a good player but is he a better player than the one he could replace ?

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Post by Snake » Tue 13 Mar, 2018 10:13 am

Pawsandclaws wrote:
Tue 13 Mar, 2018 9:11 am
Firstly, there are only 17 positions in the NRL team, so a few will miss selection.

With a squad of 30, more players aroe now being exposed to the full time training regimes and the standard of competition in the ISP will lift.

In terms of defence, going back to basics in defence and relearning technique can be achieved in the ISP.

However, I am a bit cynical and suggest the ISP for established NRL players (such as Nofoaluma and SUe) is a market place where other clubs come to remedy deficiencies in their rosters. A look through Big League will confirm these two are probably the most experienced and talented in ISP. I would expect offers from other clubs (but I am a cynic).
Are these 2 players better than the players they will replace ? If offers come well good luck to them see ya no biggy really .
Mediocrity at our club seems over if players do not like it , the best possible players need to be selected every week if these 2 are good there in ... if not suck it up in ISP.

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Post by innsaneink » Tue 13 Mar, 2018 12:50 pm

The Patriot wrote:
Tue 13 Mar, 2018 8:56 am
patwalker wrote:
Mon 12 Mar, 2018 5:53 pm
I see people all the time stating that Kev, Brooks and several other players need to go spend time in ISP to learn how to defend. For the life of me I cannot see how that can be productive? ISP is a massive step down in intensity, quality and in particular, defence. If anything, time back there would likely make their defence worse as the whole league seems based more on attack and loose scorelines. I may be wrong, I am certainly no expert on the game. It just doesn't make sense to me.
I dont think people genuinely want them to go away and improve something. They just want them to go away. Its a throw away line.
More about the player being promoted rather than the one relegated

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Post by The Patriot » Tue 13 Mar, 2018 2:14 pm

innsaneink wrote:
Tue 13 Mar, 2018 12:50 pm
The Patriot wrote:
Tue 13 Mar, 2018 8:56 am
patwalker wrote:
Mon 12 Mar, 2018 5:53 pm
I see people all the time stating that Kev, Brooks and several other players need to go spend time in ISP to learn how to defend. For the life of me I cannot see how that can be productive? ISP is a massive step down in intensity, quality and in particular, defence. If anything, time back there would likely make their defence worse as the whole league seems based more on attack and loose scorelines. I may be wrong, I am certainly no expert on the game. It just doesn't make sense to me.
I dont think people genuinely want them to go away and improve something. They just want them to go away. Its a throw away line.
More about the player being promoted rather than the one relegated
Yes thats the nature of it
Its an opinion!

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Post by Jay » Tue 13 Mar, 2018 2:19 pm

Josh Addo Car agrees, he could barely get a game with Tigers even though he loved them so he left. Some players maybe it makes sense to let them get their confidence back, some players it doesn't.

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Post by happy tiger » Wed 14 Mar, 2018 2:07 am

Tiger Watto wrote:
Tue 13 Mar, 2018 8:07 am
In the past, our reserve grade structure has been miles apart from what is going on in NRL and depending on what needed to be worked, very little was achieved. Players can find form down there in terms of individual football skills like 'tackling' or 'finding the line' etc, but they are less chance of improving team dominant skills like 'defence' and 'concentration'. Good players can get to the point where ISP will achieve nothing for them and must do their apprenticeships in the NRL if they are going to improve. JJ Felise is a perfect example of this and if he cant get time in NRL, he should ask for a release to a club who will allow him this latitude.

Ultimately, Its up to the club to ensure our structures are similar in ISP if we want to use it as a workplace to send players too improve. Winning in reserve grade should be of very little interest to NRL clubs!
The major reasons you drop a player to reserve grade or ISP is to work on their weaknesses in a slightly easier environment and to get their confidence back

If you drop them for any other reason its to give them a hint , their services won't be required for the future , if you can find someone else that interested , go for it

In Nofualuma's case it could be the latter unfortunately , we are paying a fair bit of money for a bloke who seems to have an unfixable defensive issue and can be injury prone

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Post by Geo. » Wed 14 Mar, 2018 9:13 am

happy tiger wrote:
Wed 14 Mar, 2018 2:07 am
Tiger Watto wrote:
Tue 13 Mar, 2018 8:07 am
In the past, our reserve grade structure has been miles apart from what is going on in NRL and depending on what needed to be worked, very little was achieved. Players can find form down there in terms of individual football skills like 'tackling' or 'finding the line' etc, but they are less chance of improving team dominant skills like 'defence' and 'concentration'. Good players can get to the point where ISP will achieve nothing for them and must do their apprenticeships in the NRL if they are going to improve. JJ Felise is a perfect example of this and if he cant get time in NRL, he should ask for a release to a club who will allow him this latitude.

Ultimately, Its up to the club to ensure our structures are similar in ISP if we want to use it as a workplace to send players too improve. Winning in reserve grade should be of very little interest to NRL clubs!
The major reasons you drop a player to reserve grade or ISP is to work on their weaknesses in a slightly easier environment and to get their confidence back

If you drop them for any other reason its to give them a hint , their services won't be required for the future , if you can find someone else that interested , go for it

In Nofualuma's case it could be the latter unfortunately , we are paying a fair bit of money for a bloke who seems to have an unfixable defensive issue and can be injury prone
1. Why would Cleary up his offer and pay a fair bit of money in the first place if he wasn't going to be required.

2. I don't think you would let a player not involved in the game lead the victory song if you were trying to give them the hint they are no longer required do you...?

Both scenario's make no sense as do you the majority of the time. ..
Wayne Train 2019..

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Post by happy tiger » Wed 14 Mar, 2018 9:51 am

Geo. wrote:
Wed 14 Mar, 2018 9:13 am
happy tiger wrote:
Wed 14 Mar, 2018 2:07 am
Tiger Watto wrote:
Tue 13 Mar, 2018 8:07 am
In the past, our reserve grade structure has been miles apart from what is going on in NRL and depending on what needed to be worked, very little was achieved. Players can find form down there in terms of individual football skills like 'tackling' or 'finding the line' etc, but they are less chance of improving team dominant skills like 'defence' and 'concentration'. Good players can get to the point where ISP will achieve nothing for them and must do their apprenticeships in the NRL if they are going to improve. JJ Felise is a perfect example of this and if he cant get time in NRL, he should ask for a release to a club who will allow him this latitude.

Ultimately, Its up to the club to ensure our structures are similar in ISP if we want to use it as a workplace to send players too improve. Winning in reserve grade should be of very little interest to NRL clubs!
The major reasons you drop a player to reserve grade or ISP is to work on their weaknesses in a slightly easier environment and to get their confidence back

If you drop them for any other reason its to give them a hint , their services won't be required for the future , if you can find someone else that interested , go for it

In Nofualuma's case it could be the latter unfortunately , we are paying a fair bit of money for a bloke who seems to have an unfixable defensive issue and can be injury prone
1. Why would Cleary up his offer and pay a fair bit of money in the first place if he wasn't going to be required.

2. I don't think you would let a player not involved in the game lead the victory song if you were trying to give them the hint they are no longer required do you...?

Both scenario's make no sense as do you the majority of the time. ..
You'd think then he would be the 1st man picked then Geo ...........

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Wed 14 Mar, 2018 11:56 am

Tiger Watto wrote:
Tue 13 Mar, 2018 8:07 am
In the past, our reserve grade structure has been miles apart from what is going on in NRL and depending on what needed to be worked, very little was achieved. Players can find form down there in terms of individual football skills like 'tackling' or 'finding the line' etc, but they are less chance of improving team dominant skills like 'defence' and 'concentration'. Good players can get to the point where ISP will achieve nothing for them and must do their apprenticeships in the NRL if they are going to improve. JJ Felise is a perfect example of this and if he cant get time in NRL, he should ask for a release to a club who will allow him this latitude.

Ultimately, Its up to the club to ensure our structures are similar in ISP if we want to use it as a workplace to send players too improve. Winning in reserve grade should be of very little interest to NRL clubs!
More than anything else it gives them a kick in the butt (and their ego), just by knowing that the Coach won’t accept what he’s been serving up in first grade. And even more of a worry is that he’s allowed another player to get a toehold in his position,
He risks losing his spot altogether.
That’s why I was glad to see Cleary come down heavy on Nofa and LoLo early.
Marvellous how a player can improve when his position is on the line,
Especially as now Nofa has found out that it’s not just for one token match,

It’s just a pity that that Brooks and Moses didn’t have to be accountable for some of the rubbish that they produced early in their careers.

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Post by Tiger Watto » Wed 14 Mar, 2018 12:21 pm

happy tiger wrote:
Wed 14 Mar, 2018 9:51 am
Geo. wrote:
Wed 14 Mar, 2018 9:13 am
happy tiger wrote:
Wed 14 Mar, 2018 2:07 am
Tiger Watto wrote:
Tue 13 Mar, 2018 8:07 am
In the past, our reserve grade structure has been miles apart from what is going on in NRL and depending on what needed to be worked, very little was achieved. Players can find form down there in terms of individual football skills like 'tackling' or 'finding the line' etc, but they are less chance of improving team dominant skills like 'defence' and 'concentration'. Good players can get to the point where ISP will achieve nothing for them and must do their apprenticeships in the NRL if they are going to improve. JJ Felise is a perfect example of this and if he cant get time in NRL, he should ask for a release to a club who will allow him this latitude.

Ultimately, Its up to the club to ensure our structures are similar in ISP if we want to use it as a workplace to send players too improve. Winning in reserve grade should be of very little interest to NRL clubs!
The major reasons you drop a player to reserve grade or ISP is to work on their weaknesses in a slightly easier environment and to get their confidence back

If you drop them for any other reason its to give them a hint , their services won't be required for the future , if you can find someone else that interested , go for it

In Nofualuma's case it could be the latter unfortunately , we are paying a fair bit of money for a bloke who seems to have an unfixable defensive issue and can be injury prone
1. Why would Cleary up his offer and pay a fair bit of money in the first place if he wasn't going to be required.

2. I don't think you would let a player not involved in the game lead the victory song if you were trying to give them the hint they are no longer required do you...?

Both scenario's make no sense as do you the majority of the time. ..
You'd think then he would be the 1st man picked then Geo ...........
lol... Nofo is better than both our current starting wingers!
"Did someone buy you the internet hero play book for Christmas and you've only just started reading it?" - Nelson 21/04/2017

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Post by happy tiger » Wed 14 Mar, 2018 2:11 pm

Tiger Watto wrote:
Wed 14 Mar, 2018 12:21 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Wed 14 Mar, 2018 9:51 am
Geo. wrote:
Wed 14 Mar, 2018 9:13 am
happy tiger wrote:
Wed 14 Mar, 2018 2:07 am


The major reasons you drop a player to reserve grade or ISP is to work on their weaknesses in a slightly easier environment and to get their confidence back

If you drop them for any other reason its to give them a hint , their services won't be required for the future , if you can find someone else that interested , go for it

In Nofualuma's case it could be the latter unfortunately , we are paying a fair bit of money for a bloke who seems to have an unfixable defensive issue and can be injury prone
1. Why would Cleary up his offer and pay a fair bit of money in the first place if he wasn't going to be required.

2. I don't think you would let a player not involved in the game lead the victory song if you were trying to give them the hint they are no longer required do you...?

Both scenario's make no sense as do you the majority of the time. ..
You'd think then he would be the 1st man picked then Geo ...........
lol... Nofo is better than both our current starting wingers!
Yet he shakes hands with Brett Hodgson on a weekly basis ......go figure ......Cleary must be insane :brick:

PS Capras beat you mob , bigger upset than the WT's beating Roosters

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